Guild Wars 2

I know ArenaNet has stated in the past that Abaddon is certainly dead. I don’t dispute that. What I don’t understand is how a dead God can still inspire followers, as seen in his sunken temple in Orr when we go there during the PS with Sayeh. His religion seems to be very much alive, and the enemies that we battle within that temple definitely seem to have some kind of power related to Abaddon.

I assume Anet wouldn’t lie to us about this sort of thing, so is it possible that Abaddon could be dead, yet his power is not? If that’s true, what about the Margonites? Are they still rolling around somewhere? I considered that maybe, since Abaddon’s power was the source of the Margonites’, maybe when Kormir took over the Realm of Torment all of the Margonites instantly changed to something else because their “Source” also changed. What would a Margonite still loyal to Abaddon even still be doing today? I’m curious because I feel like Nightfall’s end left a whole lot of loose ends that could be resolved in GW2. What do you think is going to happen? Are the Margonites dead and gone? Will they return in another form? If they remain unchanged and still loyal, what role could they possibly play? Disloyal?

I’m interested in your thoughts on this.

Well, considering that we have to do all that crap in Domain of Anguish after we killed Abaddon, I’d say that they can still operate without him. I wouldn’t consider Mallyx as a source of power either, but rather as a commander.

I believe that Kormir’s ascension didn’t change the Margonites as they were corrupted by Abaddon’s ideals as well as his magic. I think it would be an interesting note if Anet placed a Margonite in a future expansion. They are stated to be immortal and chances are that at least a few survived the cleansing efforts in the Realm of Torment just as a few Mursaat survived the Titans and the following war in Kryta. The Lost and the Apostle come to mind as possible candidates.

I would really like to see the Apostate. Certainly they aren’t in healthy numbers like the playable races, but I like to think that Mallyx died in GW1 at the hands of the player character and the Apostate took over leadership. It would be very interesting if the Margonites turned up as a force for good in GW2.

How do you think the Order of Whispers move around Elona?

I’m not saying it’s Margonites, but it’s Margonites.

Martacus.4085:

How do you think the Order of Whispers move around Elona?

I’m not saying it’s Margonites, but it’s Margonites.

This would actually be very interesting. What if the Order of Whispers uses the Realm of Torment to get to Elona.

Is it still called the Realm of Torment? I mean, it was mainly for tormenting Abaddon, wasn’t it? Doesn’t Kormir hang out there now? She might have redecorated.

Veron Faust.8405:

I know ArenaNet has stated in the past that Abaddon is certainly dead. I don’t dispute that. What I don’t understand is how a dead God can still inspire followers, as seen in his sunken temple in Orr when we go there during the PS with Sayeh. His religion seems to be very much alive, and the enemies that we battle within that temple definitely seem to have some kind of power related to Abaddon.

Alive? Not even in the slightest. All enemies in this mission are undead, either Risen or ghosts. Those challangers were orrian priests (not Margonites) who bound their souls to the temple in order to protect it.
“This is the ancient temple of Abaddon, built before the gods made war on each other and Abaddon was cast out.” This is what Sayeh says, the temple was build before Abaddon was cast out, meaning the people that worshipped him here were orrians, however once the god was banished, they abandoned the temple. The priests however, look like normal orrians, meaning they bound their souls to the building, before it was abandoned.

Are Margonites going to appear in GW2? Maybe, but only in sidequests/events I guess, or at a few quests of the main storyline in Elona. I highley doubt they will get a big role again, their part is done. At best we get to see a few to now what happened to them.

The Realm of Torment is thought to be renamed to ‘The Redeemed Realm’ as this name pops up in the old GW1 .dat file during one of the mining expeditions into it. However, this being in the .dat means that it’s a theory, and not solid fact though I think it stands on solid footing for the most part.

As for the the Desert proving an obstacle, I think the theory that the Realm of Torment is involved could have something to do with it, but I’m fairly skeptical. If the Order of Whispers is using Abbadon’s old realm to travel between Tyria and Elona, it would most likely be through Abbadon’s Mouth in the Desolation. However the only other two portals to the Mists that exist in Tyria exist in the Norther Crystal desert at the Tomb of Primeval Kings, which currently seems to be near where Kralkatorrik is nesting, and the Door of Komalie which leads directly to the Foundry of Failed Creation. Last we had heard of the door however was that it was sealed with the soul of the Lich being killed on the Bloodstone. So I’m rather skeptical that they’re using the Realm of Torment as a means of bypassing the Dragons, though I suppose it does remain a possibility.

EDIT: I suppose if they somehow found a way to navigate the mists to the extent of moving from Realm of Torment to the Mists battlegrounds that has an Asura portal going to LA in it that would be something else entirely. Though I’m not entirely sure if the Mists are set up for that kind of travel around.

Veron Faust.8405:

What I don’t understand is how a dead God can still inspire followers, as seen in his sunken temple in Orr when we go there during the PS with Sayeh. His religion seems to be very much alive, and the enemies that we battle within that temple definitely seem to have some kind of power related to Abaddon.

Those are just millennia old magical defenses. It’s not new or continued followers. They’re just apparitions. Not even Margonites.

Veron Faust.8405:

so is it possible that Abaddon could be dead, yet his power is not?

Yes.

<Party leader>: “Kormir?”
Kormir: “No. Yes. Kormir. And much more.”
<Party leader>: “Abaddon?”
Kormir: “No. His power. His knowledge. But not him. His will is broken. There is a new god of secrets. There is a new day.”

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Abaddon%27s_Gate_%28cinematic%29

That’s actually the entire idea behind gods – the Apostate put it best:

“And I believe that while the power he uses cannot be destroyed, he may be supplanted, as he supplanted his predecessor.”

A gods’ power cannot be destroyed, only change hands – so to say.

Veron Faust.8405:

If that’s true, what about the Margonites? Are they still rolling around somewhere? I considered that maybe, since Abaddon’s power was the source of the Margonites’, maybe when Kormir took over the Realm of Torment all of the Margonites instantly changed to something else because their “Source” also changed. What would a Margonite still loyal to Abaddon even still be doing today?

They lived after Abaddon’s death. There may be a few pockets. They didn’t change. Possible.

Either way, Domain of Anguish saw the extermination or re-imprisonment of all Margonites still loyal to Abaddon, or alternatively loyal to Mallyx, if I remember correctly.

Those who still live are a dwindling race, just like the risen. They don’t seem to age, but they cannot reproduce and there’s no god to make more of them anymore.

Son of Elias.5420:

Is it still called the Realm of Torment? I mean, it was mainly for tormenting Abaddon, wasn’t it? Doesn’t Kormir hang out there now? She might have redecorated.

The charr don’t think it got renamed. Rytlock and Smodur both make mention of the Realm of Torment, but more as a replacement of the word “hell.”

Well, with the silence of the Six and all, she probably doesn’t have many opportunities to invite people into the Realm of Refurbished to check it out.

I hope when the Elona expansion comes out we do see more of the margonites and maybe get a few events/quests ect to interact with them. I don’t think they will play a huge role but I bet they will be there if the lore writers decide to follow up on all the stories they left open in NF. While he’s not a Margonite, I really reaaallyy hope we get to see Razah again. I do like the idea of the Apostate and Lost leading the margonites to redemption. Kormir stated she was going to undo the mess Abbadon made, not wipe it clean, so maybe she found a way to undo his corruption. Since the gods are gone for now I doubt we’ll ever get to see the new realm but maybe some of the margonites are still lingering around the open world acting as liasons to Kormi and her real? Who knows.

Nay of the Ether.8913:

I hope when the Elona expansion comes out we do see more of the margonites and maybe get a few events/quests ect to interact with them. I don’t think they will play a huge role but I bet they will be there if the lore writers decide to follow up on all the stories they left open in NF. While he’s not a Margonite, I really reaaallyy hope we get to see Razah again. I do like the idea of the Apostate and Lost leading the margonites to redemption. Kormir stated she was going to undo the mess Abbadon made, not wipe it clean, so maybe she found a way to undo his corruption. Since the gods are gone for now I doubt we’ll ever get to see the new realm but maybe some of the margonites are still lingering around the open world acting as liasons to Kormi and her real? Who knows.

That would be epic to create our own army (like the Pact) of Margonites to fight Palawa or a dragon… Dreams…

Ratphink.4751:

EDIT: I suppose if they somehow found a way to navigate the mists to the extent of moving from Realm of Torment to the Mists battlegrounds that has an Asura portal going to LA in it that would be something else entirely. Though I’m not entirely sure if the Mists are set up for that kind of travel around.

I find it highly more likely that the Order of Whispers grabbed the Asuran Gate under Kamadan and had it retuned to somewhere within Tyria and are using it for travel, but we can continue to speculate all you guys want

That thing got blown up, like the other asura gates under LA and Kaineng. There was enough dwarven blackpowder there to blow up a small village. :P

No, the one that it connected to on the other end got blown up to keep the destroyers from following.

I’m positive that the Order of Whispers is simply passing trough the gate near Ebonhawke.
They also have a secret base in that city. I don’t remember their exact number inside there, but when I went there it gave me the impression of an important base.

The oldest Margonite was the first one, Lord Jadoth, who was older than 1076 years. He continued to exist even though Abaddon was defeated and Kormir ascended into Godhood until you killed him at the Domain of Anguish.

Guild Wars 2 is only 250 years ahead of Guild Wars 1, so I wouldn’t be surprised if they were still alive in Elona, maybe worshipping Kormir instead of Abaddon as a new power source?