Guild Wars 2

When I check Salvation Pass’ info, I found name Matthias Gabrel… Who is it? Is he a boss (something like Sabetha)??? And why I can’t check info about him?

EDIT:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Salvation_Pass

You can’t click info on him because the page has not been created yet.

Yeah, I see, but why ANet didnt say about him? ….

They’re not going to release spoilers. The wiki is also maintained by players.

Well, there’s a staff and a mini with his name on them. Perhaps looking at the staff, mini, and the other weapons introduced into the game with this patch will give you some hints.

Personally, I don’t even know the plot (if there is one) behind the first part of the raid, and I can look at these things and make some interesting guesses about the guy.

He’s the final boss from the new Wing of the Raids. Some people speculate he’s an experiment made by the White Mantle with the Bloodstone, after all he totally looks like a Bloodstone Hulk.
According to people, that fight is a pain in the butt. Can’t wait to try it out!

Palador.2170:

Personally, I don’t even know the plot (if there is one) behind the first part of the raid, and I can look at these things and make some interesting guesses about the guy.

The entire raid basically has a singular plot that we’re finding out. In wing 1, we go into a bandit complex, protected by the Vale Guardian, looking for prisoners – where we find magical oddities (the river of souls and Gorseval) which has hints of the area’s past (this all tying into GW1 by the looks of it) and mentions of ‘experiments’ going on, and we find out this place is ‘something bigger’, so we go further west into wing 2 to get the remaining prisoners and discover what that ‘something bigger’ is which the bandits are hiding.

Ultimately, this raid seems to be the culmination of the White Mantle/bandit storyline. Which makes me rather scared for Caudecus – he’s a worthwhile villain but he has had no role in all of this thus far.

I wonder where Riot Alice fits in. She mentioned she would be going further north soon, so I’m betting she’s been made a White Mantle initiate or is being tricked into becoming experiment fodder.

By the way, Bobby mentioned there would be an NPC in Spirit Vale that previously had no name, but would get one with this release. Has anyone already found out who he ment?

Matthias Gabrel: “I am the scythe, the bringer of salvation.”
Squad Leader Bennett: I need your help!
Matthias Gabrel: “And I shall harvest the souls of the unbelievers.”

Matthias Gabrel – Guild Wars 2 Wiki

Justiciar Hablion: “I am the scythe, the Bringer of Salvation.”
Justiciar Hablion: “And I shall harvest the souls of the Unbelievers.”

Bloodstone Fen – Guild Wars Wiki

It seems they did some pretty nice work there. I’m curious for more GW1 references coming with this raid wing!

BuddhaKeks.4857:

By the way, Bobby mentioned there would be an NPC in Spirit Vale that previously had no name, but would get one with this release. Has anyone already found out who he ment?

It’s the vendor. She got renamed from “Priory Scholar” to “Scholar Glenna”.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

It’s the vendor. She got renamed from “Priory Scholar” to “Scholar Glenna”.

Cool thanks. Though I was hoping it would be the Charr medic, we already have so many named female Asura (Dessa, Levvi, Tassi, Taimi, Zojja and so on).

I was hoping for a member of the Shining Blade. Now we have official confirmation of the White Mantle involvement, it would be a huge blunder if the Shining Blade don’t turn up in some form or another during the third wing.

A Priory Scholar (asura for that matter) is such an impersonal person to involve in this. Why not have a human who’s ancestors were chosen? Tracking down their family history and following it back to the White Mantle/Krytan conflict driving them to join the Priory is so much more interesting than a race unrelated to the faction and their history.

I see people excited about the story but so far we have confirmation of what we speculated about in Brisban, honed in on in Dry Top and soft confirmed in Silverwastes. Here’s hoping the bread crumb story in wing three brings in the Shining Blade and the epic return of Livia. Bonus points if it leaves the Maguuma entirely and hooks back into the Krytan locket plot (although it would be super lame if they redid what they did with Scarlet and Jennah survives another assassination).

So it would be only be not ‘super lame’ if Jennah dies? That seems silly.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

BuddhaKeks.4857:

By the way, Bobby mentioned there would be an NPC in Spirit Vale that previously had no name, but would get one with this release. Has anyone already found out who he ment?

It’s the vendor. She got renamed from “Priory Scholar” to “Scholar Glenna”.

No idea if spoiler…

Icdan Sevaen.4628:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

BuddhaKeks.4857:

By the way, Bobby mentioned there would be an NPC in Spirit Vale that previously had no name, but would get one with this release. Has anyone already found out who he ment?

It’s the vendor. She got renamed from “Priory Scholar” to “Scholar Glenna”.

No idea if spoiler…

Show Spoiler

hide spoiler

Could it not be the Pact Squad leader? From what I understood he didn’t really have a name in Wing 1 and you end up talking to him in Wing 2, I think?

Konig Des Todes.2086:

So it would be only be not ‘super lame’ if Jennah dies? That seems silly.

If they repeat the Queen’s Speech/Clockwork Chaos why bother do the story at all? Jennah doesn’t have to die, but recyling the same “someone tries to take down the Queen” plot, with the same outcome (they lose, Jennah continues to rule unscathed) is redundant.

Jennah doesn’t have to die for it to be different – last time she thwarted Scarlet without paying any price (aside from nameless civilians no-one will remember). If they really do an assassination plot again give it some consequence – have Anise or Logan die to save the Queen (if Anise dies it opens the way for Livia to return). Or make it political assassination – have the White Mantle and Caudecus actually defeat her in the Ministry and gain the favor of the people (even if it’t not under the flag of the Mantle – maybe manipulate the Krytan locket to create a false heir), put the White Mantle in charge and make the Shining Blade and the royal family the underdogs for a while.

How many times has Jennah survived the same plot? In CM she survives the bandits, in Clockwork Chaos she survived Scarlet, in Season 2 Anise and Kasmeer foil a political conspiracy against Jennah. It makes sense the White Mantle would target her (her family and the Shining Blade are their natural enemies) but if they retell the same story here, at least make it different from the other “someone tries to take down Jennah” stories, otherwise we are stuck in a groundhog day of threats to the throne. That seems silly to me.

Rym.1469:

Icdan Sevaen.4628:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

BuddhaKeks.4857:

By the way, Bobby mentioned there would be an NPC in Spirit Vale that previously had no name, but would get one with this release. Has anyone already found out who he ment?

It’s the vendor. She got renamed from “Priory Scholar” to “Scholar Glenna”.

No idea if spoiler…

Show Spoiler

hide spoiler

Could it not be the Pact Squad leader? From what I understood he didn’t really have a name in Wing 1 and you end up talking to him in Wing 2, I think?

Show Spoiler

hide spoiler

Pact Squad leader is his prisoner

Yeah, I meant Squad Leader Bennett

Shiren.9532:

I see people excited about the story but so far we have confirmation of what we speculated about in Brisban, honed in on in Dry Top and soft confirmed in Silverwastes. Here’s hoping the bread crumb story in wing three brings in the Shining Blade and the epic return of Livia. Bonus points if it leaves the Maguuma entirely and hooks back into the Krytan locket plot (although it would be super lame if they redid what they did with Scarlet and Jennah survives another assassination).

Why do people assume that the locket doesn’t have Jennah’s picture in it?

DarcShriek.5829:

Shiren.9532:

I see people excited about the story but so far we have confirmation of what we speculated about in Brisban, honed in on in Dry Top and soft confirmed in Silverwastes. Here’s hoping the bread crumb story in wing three brings in the Shining Blade and the epic return of Livia. Bonus points if it leaves the Maguuma entirely and hooks back into the Krytan locket plot (although it would be super lame if they redid what they did with Scarlet and Jennah survives another assassination).

Why do people assume that the locket doesn’t have Jennah’s picture in it?

It’s supposed to show the heir- that is, not the current reigning monarch but the next in their line of succession. The importance has nothing to do with Jennah’s legitimacy, but that if something were to happen to her, given that there’s apparently no public knowledge of any other descendants of Doric, the locket would be a primary deciding factor in determining who got the throne.

Assuming that Caudecus wasn’t in a position to seize it for himself at that point.

Icdan Sevaen.4628:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

BuddhaKeks.4857:

By the way, Bobby mentioned there would be an NPC in Spirit Vale that previously had no name, but would get one with this release. Has anyone already found out who he ment?

It’s the vendor. She got renamed from “Priory Scholar” to “Scholar Glenna”.

No idea if spoiler…

Show Spoiler

hide spoiler

Could it not be the Pact Squad leader? From what I understood he didn’t really have a name in Wing 1 and you end up talking to him in Wing 2, I think?

Wouldn’t call the fact the Squad leader gets a name, and I considered that, but Stein said we meet the NPC in wing 1. The only NPC we meet in wing 1 that’s in wing 2 is the vendor.

Shiren.9532:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

So it would be only be not ‘super lame’ if Jennah dies? That seems silly.

If they repeat the Queen’s Speech/Clockwork Chaos why bother do the story at all? Jennah doesn’t have to die, but recyling the same “someone tries to take down the Queen” plot, with the same outcome (they lose, Jennah continues to rule unscathed) is redundant.

Well, Scarlet did a sabotogue of the Watchknights, while the White Mantle seem to be out for a full blown coup d’etat. Which implies a full out war. And if this is so, then we’re facing a major plot, and not just a single release’s plot.

There might be assassination attempts, but it likely will be along the lines of ‘as she’s walking down the hallway in the Palace,’ rather than on a big stage over a gaping hole in the ground (seriously, who thought that was a good idea?). Scarlet was out for a show, the White Mantle are out for power and revenge.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

DarcShriek.5829:

Shiren.9532:

I see people excited about the story but so far we have confirmation of what we speculated about in Brisban, honed in on in Dry Top and soft confirmed in Silverwastes. Here’s hoping the bread crumb story in wing three brings in the Shining Blade and the epic return of Livia. Bonus points if it leaves the Maguuma entirely and hooks back into the Krytan locket plot (although it would be super lame if they redid what they did with Scarlet and Jennah survives another assassination).

Why do people assume that the locket doesn’t have Jennah’s picture in it?

It’s supposed to show the heir- that is, not the current reigning monarch but the next in their line of succession. The importance has nothing to do with Jennah’s legitimacy, but that if something were to happen to her, given that there’s apparently no public knowledge of any other descendants of Doric, the locket would be a primary deciding factor in determining who got the throne.

So if it showed Jennah before she was Queen, is it supposed to have changed as soon as she became Queen? Did it become blank? Did it show her unborn child? Did it show her first cousin? The exact quote is:

Lindsay: What are we going to do now? Our caravans were carrying magical artifacts out here for safekeeping. The Krytan royal locket is among them.
Player:The Krytan royal locket?
Lindsay: It’s a magical locket. It’s said to always have the image of the current heir to the throne of Kryta displayed inside it. It’s quite beautiful.

The heir doesn’t matter as long as the Queen is around to rule. Unless they kill her or disgrace her, it doesn’t matter if Caudecus himself is the heir – she’s the queen. Wouldn’t it also seem strange if no-one had looked at the locket after Jennah took the throne? If you had the locket wouldn’t you open it to see who the next monarch was? If the locket is in any way important to royal succession why would the Priory have it instead of the Shining Blade? Unless Kryta has some of the worst record keeping in Tyria or the royal family is decimated in some way so that only obscure distant relatives survive (or they do another royal kitten plot – poetic if the White Mantle did the same thing that the Shining Blade did to overthrow them in GW1), wouldn’t most people interested enough know who the next heir is without needing a locket? Family trees aren’t that complicated. The more I think about it, the more I think the locket was just a red herring for the “world leader” who would die plot.

Another alternative is if the Shining Blade decides the White Mantle corruption in the Ministry and Divinity’s Reach is so deep (could it be related to the man Marjory chases in her short story?), the only way to cleanse it is to fake Jennah’s death, let the White Mantle execute their plan and take the throne, once the Mantle and their supporters move out of the shadows the Shining Blade and Jennah finally know who they are dealing with.

Agroman.7190:

Matthias Gabrel: “I am the scythe, the bringer of salvation.”
Squad Leader Bennett: I need your help!
Matthias Gabrel: “And I shall harvest the souls of the unbelievers.”

Matthias Gabrel – Guild Wars 2 Wiki

Justiciar Hablion: “I am the scythe, the Bringer of Salvation.”
Justiciar Hablion: “And I shall harvest the souls of the Unbelievers.”

Bloodstone Fen – Guild Wars Wiki

It seems they did some pretty nice work there. I’m curious for more GW1 references coming with this raid wing!

Sigh. More Guild Wars 1 lore they are locking away behind raids.

Big reply. Gonna break this up piece by piece.

Shiren.9532:

So if it showed Jennah before she was Queen, is it supposed to have changed as soon as she became Queen?

That seems to me to be the idea. Really weird concept for a magic item, but there you have it.

Did it become blank? Did it show her unborn child? Did it show her first cousin?

Us not knowing that is the whole point, but I think we can make some assumptions. Unless the Priory keepers have seriously never opened it, which I find as hard to believe as you, it’s at least not blank, or they would’ve mentioned it. I don’t believe Jennah’s pregnant, so that would rule that out- since Tyria seems to operate on splitting possible futures, being able to tell before conception should be impossible. I hope we can rule out first cousin, too- in the human personal story, it’s established that as far as common knowledge goes, there is no one else in the royal line, so unless Jennah’s father had a secret sibling, or a public sibling who had a secret child, that’d rule that out.

The heir doesn’t matter as long as the Queen is around to rule. Unless they kill her or disgrace her, it doesn’t matter if Caudecus himself is the heir – she’s the queen.

That’s the point- the locket’s only important if Jennah exits the picture, so treating it as a Chekov’s Gun only works in the context of a threat to her. It’s what theoretically would happen after she’s gone that make the locket interesting.

If the locket is in any way important to royal succession why would the Priory have it instead of the Shining Blade?

This is the juicy bit- and the short answer is, I think you’re right, with a couple major buts:

-First, I don’t think the locket would be important to the line of succession. We admittedly don’t have a huge body of information to work with, but what we have seen is Adelbern getting the crown over Barradin with a minimum of fuss, and more importantly, all four of King Baede’s children being treated as valid possibilities to succeed, with the one deemed least likely getting it. By all accounts, the only thing that matters is that the monarch is descended from Doric- within that range, the free choice of the monarch being succeeded, and apparently even the will of the citizens of the kingdom, count for more than primogeniture. If that’s what the locket shows, that’d mean it’d be largely irrelevant. If, on the other hand, it does express, say, which child is the king’s favorite, it’s redundant- the king would very likely have already made that known. The only situation in which the locket could be useful in the succession is when there are no known heirs to choose from, or maybe when they are all distant relatives and the monarch left behind no clear preference. In other words, the locket’s only important now because of very specific circumstances that may have only come up sporadically in Kryta’s past.

-Second, I think the locket wouldn’t matter too much to the Shining Blade. They’ve been the constant bodyguards of the royal family since Salma, and their calling is to protect ‘the Salmaic dynasty’. That means that if the ‘secret heir’ is descended from Salma, they’re practically guaranteed to already know about them, and their only interest in the locket would be in keeping the heir secret. If the heir isn’t, but is some descendant of Doric (e.g. Wade Samuelsson), they simply don’t care. They’d be hellbent on keeping Jennah alive long enough to continue the line instead. Since the locket is in Priory hands, and it’s hard to see how the Shining Blade would benefit from keeping a secret heir anyway, that’s the answer I’m leaning towards.

Unless Kryta has some of the worst record keeping in Tyria or the royal family is decimated in some way so that only obscure distant relatives survive wouldn’t most people interested enough know who the next heir is without needing a locket? Family trees aren’t that complicated.

In this case, I think they are. First off, any records on royal lineage would’ve most likely been kept in Lion’s Arch, the only real city Kryta seems to have had at the time of the tsunami, at which point they’d have either been destroyed or moved to the Durmand Priory, which has already shown it treats this whole heir business as secretive (more on that in a minute). Secondly, if the real issue is that we’re looking at someone descended from Doric but not Salma, we’re talking about a family tree that goes back a minimum of 1,329 years, to a time when human civilization on the continent is said to have just progressed beyond tribes. It’s likely that any of the older branches of that family wouldn’t have been well documented, and that the records that did exist would’ve been in either Ascalon or Orr, where they’d likely be just as destroyed as anything in Lion’s Arch.

As far as decimating the royal line goes, it’s possible they did it to themselves. It’s not something Tyria’s touched on yet, but in our own history, having too many descendants in the royal family hasn’t always been a good thing- disagreements are a bit too quick to lead to war at that level. It’s possible the royal line of Kryta tried not to have many children, or that extra children were encouraged not to marry, or that children of extra children ended up outside the succession and eventually forgotten. There’s a possible precedent for that last one in Ascalon, since Adelbern was at once a descendant of Doric and born a commoner, and like Jennah, his line of succession seemed suspiciously scarce.

The more I think about it, the more I think the locket was just a red herring for the “world leader” who would die plot.

Possible.

Another alternative is if the Shining Blade decides the White Mantle corruption in the Ministry and Divinity’s Reach is so deep (could it be related to the man Marjory chases in her short story?), the only way to cleanse it is to fake Jennah’s death, let the White Mantle execute their plan and take the throne, once the Mantle and their supporters move out of the shadows the Shining Blade and Jennah finally know who they are dealing with.

I actually wouldn’t mind seeing that, and S1’s abrupt distrust between Anise and Logan would tie nicely into it as well.

Shiren.9532:

Another alternative is if the Shining Blade decides the White Mantle corruption in the Ministry and Divinity’s Reach is so deep (could it be related to the man Marjory chases in her short story?), the only way to cleanse it is to fake Jennah’s death, let the White Mantle execute their plan and take the throne, once the Mantle and their supporters move out of the shadows the Shining Blade and Jennah finally know who they are dealing with.

I would actually really enjoy seeing this if done right.

And not only could the plot prove interesting, with the players thinking Jennah is dead, but this would also show us what would have happened if Jennah died in Ebonhawke when Kralkatorrik awoke – the thing that Logan prevented by leaving Destiny’s Edge.

Actually, a secret heir wouldn’t need to go back as far as Doric, just to King Baede or earlier.

To give a third reason, though: It’s possible that the Shining Blade put the locket into the Priory’s safekeeping so that the verification of the heir would come from a neutral third party. Anise says it herself at the party:

Countess Anise

Put simply, I’m too close to the queen for my claims to be believable without support. I’d lose much if our dear Jennah was incarcerated, and the ministers know it.

Now, imagine what would happen if the Shining Blade produced an heir purely on their own say-so? Caudecus’ faction would probably just claim that Anise has produced some random puppet to maintain the power of the Shining Blade. The Durmand Priory, however, as a repository of lore without a direct stake in Krytan politics, however, is harder to call into question.

It’s possible that it’s even in the succession laws of Kryta that the Priory be consulted if the monarch dies with no designated successor – as well as providing means of finding an heir if none is otherwise known, it could also be a way to avoid fighting over the throne if there are multiple potential claimants.

I’ve seen several odd lore errors in the above conversation.

First off, Adelburn and Barradin were royals of Ascelon, not Kryta. Their succession rules were very different.

As has been mentioned, the story says Jennah is the only living member of the direct ruling family. That doesn’t mean there aren’t other lines of succession. This, however, has several issues. In the real world, look at all the wars the have washed over England because the succession was unclear? When you pass beyond just Parent and Child, it can become very confusing and complex, no matter how much documentation exists. The locket actually provides a way to secure a definite line of succession to the Krytan throne.

As to why the image in the locket is unknown….what if the image were of Caudicus? One of the few things keeping the ministers from killing Jennah is the line of succession and who would be set up in power at her death. The ministers, if they don’t know who the locket shows, might hesitate without such info, or perhaps they would just rather make the locket “go away” entirely.

Also of import is the Shinning Blade. They are not sworn to Queen Jennah, but rather to the Salmanic Throne. (It is not actually the Doric Throne, but the Salmanic Throne.) Queen Salma, who took back the throne after the overthrow of the White Mantle, started the current dynasty. She, actually, was not a direct descendant to King Doric. She was only the closest relation to the Doric line still living.

If the Minister’s were to overthrow Queen Jennah, they would need to try to make sure whoever they chose as the new king or queen was a descendant of Salma, or they would have to fight the Shinning Blade.

There is a lot of fodder in this storyline, and hopefully the Raid storyline, and the fact that season 3 won’t be out until after the final wing drops, means that perhaps they will do a major shift to a new Krytan Civil War, with Logan and Queen Jennah going into hiding with the shinning blade protecting their retreat and working on their return as the ministry calls in the White Mantel to back them up against the Shinning Blade.

That would be a great Season 3, imho.

Gany

Gany.1793:

She, actually, was not a direct descendant to King Doric. She was only the closest relation to the Doric line still living.

Yes… she was. " The royal lineage of Kryta, as with all royalty, descends from King Doric." She was the daughter of King Jadon, the monarch at the time of the charr invasion, via one of his ‘indiscretions’ and thus still directly part of the dynasty. The reason the Shining Blade are committed specifically to the Salmaics isn’t because they’re a seperate line of descent- Salma is just where the Shining Blade became invested in the royal family. Or, if you want to put it in more nationalistic terms, you could say that since Salma was at one point the last known royal in Kryta, loyalty to her descendants keeps the throne in Krytan hands. Opening it up to all of Doric’s descendants could theoretically result in the Shining Blade trying to place an Ascalonian on the throne, or some other foreigner descended from Jadon, if he lived long enough to sire any more children.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Yes… she was. " The royal lineage of Kryta, as with all royalty, descends from King Doric." She was the daughter of King Jadon, the monarch at the time of the charr invasion, via one of his ‘indiscretions’ and thus still directly part of the dynasty. The reason the Shining Blade are committed specifically to the Salmaics isn’t because they’re a seperate line of descent- Salma is just where the Shining Blade became invested in the royal family. Or, if you want to put it in more nationalistic terms, you could say that since Salma was at one point the last known royal in Kryta, loyalty to her descendants keeps the throne in Krytan hands. Opening it up to all of Doric’s descendants could theoretically result in the Shining Blade trying to place an Ascalonian on the throne, or some other foreigner descended from Jadon, if he lived long enough to sire any more children.

I stand corrected. Thank you for that correction

The latter part, however, was the point I meant to make here. The Doric line could expand beyond the Krytan royalty, whereas the Salmanic line is ONLY Krytan royalty.

Thanks again for the clarification

Gany

Technically, Salma’s line is just those who are descended from Queen Salma from GW1, which given that about five generations give or take have passed since, could easily expand past Krytan royalty.

They could even be living in Ebonhawke, if somewhere down the line one married and moved there.

Plus we know that King Baede had three children (two sons and one daughter), though we don’t know the name of the elder son. And though Edair (the secondborn son) was named successor, we know a later king was named Rodrick (and we don’t know if this king was Jennah’s father or not). Which means that if Edair did end up succeeding the throne (and Rodrick isn’t his brother) and if Rodrick – who ruled 50 years ago (note: Beade lived until ~70 years ago) – wasn’t Jennah’s father that means there’s another generation between the two…

Point is, there’s plenty of possible offshoot descendants from Salma. If the line went Beade -> Edair -> Rodrick -> Jennah’s father -> Jennah, in just 70 years, then in the 100 prior to Zhaitan’s rise, there could be just as many kings if not one or two more. And each king could have had siblings like Edair did.

What happened to those siblings?

Granted, my opinion is that Rodrick is Edair’s older brother (who is mentioned to be an elementalist and scholar) and took rule instead of the believed Edair. And 50 years ago ruling with Jennah taking the throne 10 years ago (in 1316) with her unable to take the throne on her father’s death, implies that he died closer to 1300. So I think Rodrick might be Jennah’s father, taking the throne in his mid-twenties (Edair is described as young and the middle child), and reigning for ~50 years before his death (this would put him at ~40-50 when Jennah was born). So I think the succession line went Beade → Rodrick → Jennah.