Guild Wars 2

So this is another one of those “the Pale Tree is a champion of an elder dragon” threads, well kinda. Cue Konig’s aneurysm (sorry).

So in the latest two releases a subtle new development was droped in the form of the crafted back item Mawdrey. Originally it was a seed presumably with it’s origin relating to Mordremoth. The first incarnation of the Mysterious Seed reads:

“This vine, while appearing to be touched by Mordremoth, has been grown from seed under the good influence of a hero of Tyria.”

OK. So it was touched by Mordremoth but the purification process and the care of a Tyria hero resulted in it not being a killer vine. Then we have the Cultivated Seed from the first vine:

“The first seed cultivated and produced by your own hand. To cultivate this new specimen to be even better than the last, plant in a Chaos Infused Clay Pot to germinate.”

Finally ending with:

“The next generation of cultivated seed produced by your own hand. To cultivate this new specimen to be even better than the last, plant it in a Mists Infused Clay Pot to germinate.”

The final product (so far) is Mawdrey:

“After spending so much time cultivating this powerful vine through the generations, it’s hard to not feel an attachment to it. Your beloved pet almost cuddles you in its tendrils. Clearly it feels a similar attachment.”

So does it appear that we have cleansed dragon corruption from a plant and through generations (only two) of grooming we were able to turn what was once a product of an Elder Dragon (at least touched by its corruption) into a not corrupt life form?

Now all the Pale Tree is a champion of Mordremoth “theories” have run into road blocks but it seems like season two is consistently dismantling them. I’ll sumarise the points I think people usually make for this argument:

• Sylvari are created quickly similar to a dragon army (think Primordius) and share an empathic bond.
• Sylvari’s collective experience goes back to their source (the Pale Tree).
• Scarlet entered Omadd’s device with the Entity already with her (presumed to be Mordremoth) and while Vorpp suggests all creatures have a mental protection, the Pale Tree recently suggested that Scarlet lost a sylvari connection that was not the same as a normal mind’s mental protection.
• The Pale Tree explicitly states she is protecting the sylvari from the dragon’s influence – no-one is doing this for humans, charr, asura or norn (afaik) so something about sylvari makes them vulnerable (their connection to the Dream).
• So far it’s assumed by some that Scarlet and Aerin have been corrupted by Mordremoth and that is done when sylvari are cut off from the Pale Tree. This is important first to infer that Mordremoth has exclusively targeted sylvari because the sylvari have a unique connection to Mordremoth another race wouldn’t have (Scarlet brought the Entity with her – via the Dream). It’s also important because it arguably disproves one of the major points discrediting this idea – that sylvari can’t be corrupted,they can be – by Mordremoth (which could explain why no other dragon can corrupt a sylvari like they can’t corrupt other dragon’s minions).
• Mordremoth’s first champion, the Shadow of the Dragon, was corrupting the Dream. Caithe claims it’s the Nightmare (which could be Mordremoth related) but we now know it’s a real dragon champion and not indicative of Zhaitan.

In the past I’ve argued with others (devils advocate?) to try and test the sylvari minion theory and one of the points I made was that Glint is (one of?) the only creature in Tyria to be cleansed of dragon corruption by a an ancient spell cast by the snake-like Forgotten race. She remained crystalline but regained her free will and was able to lay eggs which hatched into offspring. I argued the Pale Tree’s seed could have been a product of Mordremoth. That, like Glint, the Pale Tree was originally a dragon champion but through a cleansing process (one that we arguably have done with Mawdrey – which has moral philosophical parallels to Ventari and the Pale Tree) she was cleansed of her corruption and grew into a force for good, just like Glint. Perhaps it was Glint herself that cleansed the Pale Tree seedlings (possibly even the seedling which grew into Malyck’s tree – the thorn in this idea).

The current plot has a lot to do with Glint and Mordremoth but as a champion of Kralkatorrik who lived in the Crystal Desert and not Maguuma, those two plots seem unrelated. What if they are not?

The Brotherhood of the Dragon were the dwarven order dedicated to Glint and her prophecies (a very relevant power to any plot in GW2) and their GW2 successors are the Zephyrites, a faction that carries Glint’s legacy and has secrets we know little about. One of Mordremoth’s presumed corrupted targets attacked the Zephyrites and went after their leader (or a power their leader had). Now the Master of Peace ventures alone into Maguuma on a mission, with a mysterious back pack. Many of us suspect he is either heading to Glint’s offspring or is carrying an unhatched egg in his backpack.

So how does that link to the Pale Tree? Well her latest vision given to the player before she loses consciousness appears to show a location that looks a lot like Glint’s lair from GW1, with a gold light shining from what appears to be an oval (egg?) shape, implying that vines are closing in around it. What if the Pale Tree was cleansed by Glint and has personal knowledge of the locations of Glint’s offspring. Destiny’s Edge almost took down an Elder Dragon with a single dragon champion, imagine how powerful 250 years of her children could be? What if the Pale Tree was trying to send us to protect Glint’s legacy from Mordremoth?

Summary of Key Points:

• The Pale Tree’s protection of sylvari appears to be unique. Sylvari vulnerability to Mordremoth also appears to be unique.
• Glint was once cleansed of Elder Dragon corruption. Mawdrey, said to be “touched by Mordremoth” was also cleansed, albeit through a much less elaborate ritual. Perhaps something similar was done for the Pale Tree? We never found out where her seed came from. Mawdrey sets a precedent for cleansing Elder Dragon corruption, at least for Mordremoth through a process of breeding without Forgotten rituals.
• The Pale Tree knows more than she has told us and her final vision has aesthetic similarities to Glint’s lair in GW1 despite the current plot focusing on Mordremoth.
• Glint’s legacy is a big part of the current story and it’s now been connected to the sylvari at least once (Aerin targeting the MoP) and possibly twice (the Pale Tree’s vision).

I’m not so much interested in establishing that sylvari are dragon minions, I’m primarily interested in exploring how the idea may have changed with the new information. How does the new information inform our understand of what’s possible and what isn’t possible (remember not all Elder Dragons work the same way, Mordremoth especially), and how it all relates to the seemingly different stories being told. I post this so that people will challenge it (I already feel many parts are weak) and hopefully discuss their own thoughts on the specific parts of the post people might think are stronger than others.

It’s been bugging me for a while now that while almost all of the gw1 outposts have been scaled to fit exactly where they should be in gw2 (see an overlay map: http://zoom.it/Zf9p), The Grove is quite a ways south from where it should be at Ventari’s Sanctuary. Is it possible then that the Pale Tree is a generation or two removed from Ronan’s original seed, planted in a new sanctuary slightly to the south? I know kinda goes against everything originally established about Ronan and Ventari, but generally speaking true trees don’t get up and walk away, even in Tyria.

Even if the Pale Tree really is the original seed and this is just a location anomaly, the whole cache of seeds Ronan found might have been the descendants of something touched by Mordremoth from the last rising. That at least could explain Malyck’s tree.

I still can’t say that I’m particularly enthused by the idea of sylvari being ex-Mordrem though. The fact that they’re particularly weak to Mordremoth could simply be because they’re plants, and Mordremoth doesn’t do animals. There’s still nothing in-game to suggest that dragon minions are immune to the corruption of other dragons either. None of the dragon minions in-game have ever been close enough to a source of corruption from a different dragon to prove it one way or another, but CoE still proves that you can be corrupted multiple times under laboratory conditions.

I’d be interested in seeing how a Soundless reacts to, say, being thrown into the Brand. The Pale Tree’s dialogue is somewhat open-ended; to me it sounds like the Dream’s protection applies to all dragon corruption, not just Mordremoth.

Silavor.6257:

It’s been bugging me for a while now that while almost all of the gw1 outposts have been scaled to fit exactly where they should be in gw2 (see an overlay map: http://zoom.it/Zf9p), The Grove is quite a ways south from where it should be at Ventari’s Sanctuary. Is it possible then that the Pale Tree is a generation or two removed from Ronan’s original seed, planted in a new sanctuary slightly to the south? I know kinda goes against everything originally established about Ronan and Ventari, but generally speaking true trees don’t get up and walk away, even in Tyria.

The location is probably a design choice. There would be a bit of coast left untouched if the center of the tree was where it was in GW1.

Silavor.6257:

I’d be interested in seeing how a Soundless reacts to, say, being thrown into the Brand. The Pale Tree’s dialogue is somewhat open-ended; to me it sounds like the Dream’s protection applies to all dragon corruption, not just Mordremoth.

Likewise on the topic of Soundless, at least to see them more whether to prove or disprove the theory all together. However, on the topic of protection as stated by the Pale Tree – I didn’t read that at all. She used Zhaitan for a concept reference but not saying, “I protect them from all dragons.” Nah, she points out Mordremoth directly with the statement, “I protect you from him.” and not “them”.

I can’t recall the NPC’s name but there is a disembodied soul who mocks the fact that that his corporeal form is one of Zhaitan’s minions. So if a soul can be removed from the body, surely upon death the Sylvari’s body would be free game. There’s no enough context to explain this flaw in this particular argument that tries to denounce the theory all together.

It should be noted that none of the descriptions says Mawdrey is ever cleansed of the dragon corruption. Only that it has grown attached to you. So we can’t really make a definitive statement either way on regards to it.

It also should be noted that the Forgotten ritual didn’t actually cleanse Glint or the Risen Chicken of corruption either. It simply broke the Elder Dragon’s mental domination over the subject. Glint was still technically a Branded, and the Risen Chicken is well… still a Risen.

Warden Illyra: Yes. Yes! Look at these runes. The Forgotten were able to remove Kralkatorrik’s control over Glint.
Warden Illyra: Glint remained in crystalline form, but she regained her free will and identity.

My best guess/theory is that with each passing generation of seedlings, without Mordy to constantly exert control of them, slowly weakens their connection to him. Unlike most of the other types of dragon minions (which are made of ice, stone, crystal, lava, water(?), and death) the Mordrem are made up of living things. If left by themselves, they might have a chance of growth and evolution that the other minions don’t have.

Or who knows, maybe Glint or one of the elder races were experimenting on the Mordrem, and the cave that was filled with the Pale Tree seeds was a seed bank of sorts. Time will only tell at this point.

Ronin.7381

I can’t recall the NPC’s name but there is a disembodied soul who mocks the fact that that his corporeal form is one of Zhaitan’s minions. So if a soul can be removed from the body, surely upon death the Sylvari’s body would be free game. There’s no enough context to explain this flaw in this particular argument that tries to denounce the theory all together.

Though it might be different in Mordy’s case, I think I remember reading that a Sylvari’s body withers when effected by dragon corruption, leaving it unsuitable in any sort meaningful way.

Shiren.9532:

Cue Konig’s aneurysm (sorry).

HHHHHHHHHHRRRRRRRRRRRRNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG.

There, cued.

Shiren.9532:

So it was touched by Mordremoth but the purification process and the care of a Tyria hero resulted in it not being a killer vine.

Teeeeechnically, the description says appearing, not that it was.

Shiren.9532:

Now all the Pale Tree is a champion of Mordremoth “theories” have run into road blocks but it seems like season two is consistently dismantling them.

And yet, from what I see, season two is adding to them. Mawdrey is the only form of potential support for the theory I see, and it holds two major flaws:

1. Mawdrey and Mordremoth’s corruption is taking the form of vines. The Pale Tree is a great White Oak tree. I BEG you guys to explain this – despite all the evidences of Mordremoth’s corruption being VINES and CARNIVOROUS FLOWERS, with no sign of trees, fruits, or humanoids, the theory continues. There’s no aesthetic similarity to be had.
2. We give Mawdrey a LOT of magical artifacts, some of which are tied indirectly to the Forgotten (Mists stone), some are tied to unknown magic (Pile of Phantasmal Essence), and some are directly tied to purification (Vial of Purified Glacial Water, Vial of Mending Oasis Water). Any one of these – or even the combination of these – could hold similar effects to the Forgotten’s ritual.

Shiren.9532:

• Sylvari are created quickly similar to a dragon army (think Primordius) and share an empathic bond.

Primordus actually creates them rather slowly. And the sylvari bond is not a hive mind, while dragon minions’ are.

Shiren.9532:

• Scarlet entered Omadd’s device with the Entity already with her (presumed to be Mordremoth) and while Vorpp suggests all creatures have a mental protection, the Pale Tree recently suggested that Scarlet lost a sylvari connection that was not the same as a normal mind’s mental protection.

As sylvari players are told by the Pale Tree at the beginning of the third episode (The Dragon’s Reach: Part 1), Scarlet Briar had forsaken the Pale Tree before even entering the machine, and that is when Mordremoth began to attack her mind. The machine just gave him better access, apparently, as she furthered away from the Pale Tree.

Shiren.9532:

• The Pale Tree explicitly states she is protecting the sylvari from the dragon’s influence – no-one is doing this for humans, charr, asura or norn (afaik) so something about sylvari makes them vulnerable (their connection to the Dream).

How do you come to this conclusion, exactly? Humans, charr, asura, and norn are all vulnerable. The Pale Tree’s protection removes that vulnerability that all other races have, in that they cannot be corrupted. Only Mordremoth is capable – likely due to his plant affiliation – of bypassing this protection.

Shiren.9532:

So far it’s assumed by some that Scarlet and Aerin have been corrupted by Mordremoth and that is done when sylvari are cut off from the Pale Tree. This is important first to infer that Mordremoth has exclusively targeted sylvari because the sylvari have a unique connection to Mordremoth another race wouldn’t have (Scarlet brought the Entity with her – via the Dream). It’s also important because it arguably disproves one of the major points discrediting this idea – that sylvari can’t be corrupted,they can be – by Mordremoth (which could explain why no other dragon can corrupt a sylvari like they can’t corrupt other dragon’s minions).

Well Scarlet being corrupted is point-blank stated by the Pale Tree (and again, implied to have begun before she entered the machine). The Pale Tree’s dialogue also infers that she was the prevention measure. Furthermore, nothing says that Elder Dragons cannot corrupt another dragons’ minions – why do people think this when there is absolutely nothing to point to this? And everyone who thinks it says that it’s been proven fact! Such oddity!

Shiren.9532:

Mordremoth’s first champion, the Shadow of the Dragon, was corrupting the Dream. Caithe claims it’s the Nightmare (which could be Mordremoth related) but we now know it’s a real dragon champion and not indicative of Zhaitan.

It could be both, actually…

Shiren.9532:

Sylvari vulnerability to Mordremoth also appears to be unique.

I would argue against this. Mordremoth’s corruption to sylvari is described and shown thus far to be very similar to Jormag’s corruption of Svanir and Jora. Jormag first seduces with promises of power, prey, strength, etc. and then corrupts – whereas Kralkatorrik and Zhaitan corrupted to enslave. Mordremoth seems similar, giving gifts of knowledge instead of power, and corrupting through cracks in a sylvari’s will.

Just as Jormag targets norn due to their desire of power and legend, Mordremoth targets sylvari because they’re naive and wish to learn. That’s my interpretation. The sylvari being plants is of course a plus, but we don’t see corrupted treants (yet) so I think it’s nothing more than “a plus”.

Shiren.9532:

Mawdrey sets a precedent for cleansing Elder Dragon corruption, at least for Mordremoth through a process of breeding without Forgotten rituals.

In an “interview”: it is said that corruption magic is relatively unknown, that specific geographical locations and unique magic are needed to cleanse it. We gather a lot of materials, three of hwich are tied directly or indirectly to ley lines. Each item we upgrade requires a specific location or object to upgrade. While the magic may be different, we still seem to perform a ritual – just not The Forgotten’s Ritual.

Shiren.9532:

How does the new information inform our understand of what’s possible and what isn’t possible (remember not all Elder Dragons work the same way, Mordremoth especially), and how it all relates to the seemingly different stories being told.

Glint, Zephyrites, sylvari/Mordremoth, Bloodstone… In all honesty, I’m getting a huge sense of “ArenaNet is trying very hard to please the playerbase after the uproars of Season 1 by shoving everything players have been heavily speculating on/enjoying into Season 2.”

Erukk.1408:

It should be noted that none of the descriptions says Mawdrey is ever cleansed of the dragon corruption. Only that it has grown attached to you. So we can’t really make a definitive statement either way on regards to it.

This is true.

And those vines are awfully close to the throat… are we sure they’re cuddling in kindness?

Erukk.1408:

Though it might be different in Mordy’s case, I think I remember reading that a Sylvari’s body withers when effected by dragon corruption, leaving it unsuitable in any sort meaningful way.

That’s when they die. In Ghosts of Ascalon, Killeen’s body withers and blackens within seconds, no dragon corruption was involved – she was just crushed to death.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

This is true.

And those vines are awfully close to the throat… are we sure they’re cuddling in kindness?

It would be hilarious if Mawdrey is Anet’s attempt at the original ending of Little Shop of Horrors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Shop_of_Horrors_(film)#Original_ending

i think this theory is quite solid actually
so i raise you this.

in the recent cut-scene were shown kralky and such, we also see one of mordys dragons attack the pale tree
now if mordy is attacking the pale tree(assuming shes a lutenent or something like glint) perhaps hes taking his (power,magic, energy) back

now in the cut scene we see what looks like kralkatoric or one of his minnions (could be glints baby which would destroy this theory)
and the egg.
to me it looks like its looking for it we see it descend into what looks like some caverns to hide away.then we see the vines approach.

could kralky being trying to get back his (energy ,magic,power)
and if the vines are approaching does this mean mordy is trying to kill it?
or perhaps the eldar dragons can steal magic from each other by destroying the higher ups of there armies?

maybe mordy devised a plan( i assume theres almost a hive mind like connection between the weaker sylvari that a seperated from the tree and mordy while the stronger ones can resist better) where he knew he could guide a powerful dragon artifact into his teritory ( why hes expanding over the part of tyrai we are on so fast- to claim territory)

did mordy notice a powerful artifact last time the zephyrs where around?
and then again the second time…
but this time he had some control over some usefull beings that could hep guide this artifact radiating magical energy back to him

also your theory makes me think perhaps the first born arnt as resistant to mordys corruption as a result of being the first “batch”

Erukk.1408:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

This is true.

And those vines are awfully close to the throat… are we sure they’re cuddling in kindness?

It would be hilarious if Mawdrey is Anet’s attempt at the original ending of Little Shop of Horrors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Shop_of_Horrors_(film)#Original_ending

ahem

saventis.1485:

now in the cut scene we see what looks like kralkatoric or one of his minnions (could be glints baby which would destroy this theory)
and the egg.

That dragon seen is the Shadow of the Dragon. It has the trees on its back and everything.

To be honest, I’ve generally been considering the backpack items to be of questionable lore significance. Where did that sclerite back item come from exactly again?

Of course, they’ve made waypoints canon now, so who knows?

Regarding the current examples… Konig has already pointed out what I was going to. We collected a bunch of materials from a variety of exotic locations to feed to the first backpack. It’s entirely likely that in doing so, we’ve recreated something similar to the Forgotten ritual – certainly, what we’ve done isn’t exactly easy, and there’s no indication that Ventari, Ronan, or anyone else involved in cultivating the Pale Tree has gone to any similar lengths.

Is it possible that the Pale Tree is a cleansed minion, or a descendant of same? Yes, but if so, it wasn’t Ventari that did it. However, at the moment there is, at best, no reason to think the sylvari-dragon minion theory is any more likely than other possibilities such as the sylvari having been produced as a corruption-resistant army from scratch, having naturally evolved to be corruption-resistant, or the Pale Tree having lucked out on having access to something (the Dream) that allows her to extend corruption resistance to her children.

Either way, we have the following:

1) An explanation for sylvari corruption resistance has been given – the Dream. Ronin can try to nitpick the wording of the Pale Tree’s comments on the matter as much as he likes, but the fact remains that we now have an explanation and no need to look to extreme theories to explain this.

2) That sylvari can be corrupted at all suggests that the protection granted by the Dream is weaker than the Forgotten magic, as the latter seems to have rendered the subject immune to re-corruption (Kralkatorrik was unable to simply reclaim Glint, for instance).

I also mostly share the same opinion when it comes mordremoth and the sylvari being a lot more connected.

What i posted in march.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/lore/lore/Sylvari-s-Corruption-Theory-spoilers

I also believe there’s a connection with kralkatorrik and glint within the living story. The zephyrites play an important role in it. Also the vision of the pale tree (i think it’s a vision) is trying to tell us what mordremoth wants, his intentions or will. How can the pale tree show us mordy’s will? because the will of the elder dragon lives within his minion. Very speculative i know, but it sort of makes sense. And the way the crystals are devoured by the vines in that cutscene, really fits with the zephyrites being targeted by Aerin. No idea what the idea is behind targeting the zephyrites or glint’s legacy by mordremoth though. Maybe it has something to do with the free will gained by Glint and passed on to her offspring.

I still believe that creatures/minions made/produced/corrupted by an elder dragon (or it’s champions) can not be corrupted by another elder dragon. Ever seen a Risen Branded? or a Branded Svanir? Or a Mordrem Destroyer?

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Erukk.1408:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

This is true.

And those vines are awfully close to the throat… are we sure they’re cuddling in kindness?

It would be hilarious if Mawdrey is Anet’s attempt at the original ending of Little Shop of Horrors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Shop_of_Horrors_(film)#Original_ending

ahem

saventis.1485:

now in the cut scene we see what looks like kralkatoric or one of his minnions (could be glints baby which would destroy this theory)
and the egg.

That dragon seen is the Shadow of the Dragon. It has the trees on its back and everything.

sorry i was referring to the dragon in the vision ( was a little tired when i wrote that so yea sorry it wasnt really clear)

Right, that’s what I was referring to as well. The dragon in the vision is the Shadow of the Dragon, not Kralkatorrik or The Shatterer.

saventis.1485:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Erukk.1408:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

This is true.

And those vines are awfully close to the throat… are we sure they’re cuddling in kindness?

It would be hilarious if Mawdrey is Anet’s attempt at the original ending of Little Shop of Horrors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Shop_of_Horrors_(film)#Original_ending

ahem

saventis.1485:

now in the cut scene we see what looks like kralkatoric or one of his minnions (could be glints baby which would destroy this theory)
and the egg.

That dragon seen is the Shadow of the Dragon. It has the trees on its back and everything.

sorry i was referring to the dragon in the vision ( was a little tired when i wrote that so yea sorry it wasnt really clear)

That dragon was Shadow Of The Dragon though and not Kralk nor Glint’s child….

With that said so far the only suggestive link I’ve seen so far is the comparison between Glint’s Lair and the scene from the cutscene where we see crystals aligning in a similar fashion. I’m still not sure exactly how Kralk would figure into it and at this point I’m not behind the theory just yet.

Always figured the best ED to put against Mord would be Primordus since fire > fauna.

I’m not sure that “touched by” means the same as “corrupted by”. C.f. The Sons of Svanir, and The Flame Legion.

I don’t think that Sylvari immunity to corruption by Jormag, Kral, or Zhaitan needs any other explanation than that Sylvari Icebrood, Branded and (especially) Risen would have looked pretty stupid.

The dragon in the vision is the same as the one that attacks the conference. In particular it had the same wing design, which is quite unique and easily distinguished from other dragon models. (It also differs substantially from the Shadow of the Dragon Mk1 in the Sylvari personal story).

Erukk.1408:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

This is true.

And those vines are awfully close to the throat… are we sure they’re cuddling in kindness?

It would be hilarious if Mawdrey is Anet’s attempt at the original ending of Little Shop of Horrors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Shop_of_Horrors_(film)#Original_ending

Shame they didn’t make the backpack actually look like the film version of Audrey, or like one of the Threshers. Even a vine seed plant would have been a better model.

Wanderer.3248:

I don’t think that Sylvari immunity to corruption by Jormag, Kral, or Zhaitan needs any other explanation than that Sylvari Icebrood, Branded and (especially) Risen would have looked pretty stupid.

Plants can decompose and freeze, and we see Branded/Risen plants throughout the respective affected areas. So why would it look stupid, exactly?

Wanderer.3248:

It also differs substantially from the Shadow of the Dragon Mk1 in the Sylvari personal story.

You’re going to have to explain the difference to me, as they look identical to me.

The wings are the main difference. It can be hard to see because most of the shots clip the wings, but the new model has more bones and a bit more stuff between them. It looks more like it could fly than the old one.

oh i was under the impression the dragon we fought was the shadow of the dragon

It was. By both name and the sylvari-only dialogue. The sylvari PC, Trahearne, and Pale Tree all say it was the dragon from the Dream (aka Tutorial).

Anyways, I looked at an HD video of the vision and compared it to this image of the Shadow of the Dragon pulled out of the dat, and their wings look identical to me. Both have 4 main branches with 2 bushes of trees on each wing.

draxynnic.3719:

To be honest, I’ve generally been considering the backpack items to be of questionable lore significance. Where did that sclerite back item come from exactly again?

Of course, they’ve made waypoints canon now, so who knows?

Regarding the current examples… Konig has already pointed out what I was going to. We collected a bunch of materials from a variety of exotic locations to feed to the first backpack. It’s entirely likely that in doing so, we’ve recreated something similar to the Forgotten ritual – certainly, what we’ve done isn’t exactly easy, and there’s no indication that Ventari, Ronan, or anyone else involved in cultivating the Pale Tree has gone to any similar lengths.

Is it possible that the Pale Tree is a cleansed minion, or a descendant of same? Yes, but if so, it wasn’t Ventari that did it. However, at the moment there is, at best, no reason to think the sylvari-dragon minion theory is any more likely than other possibilities such as the sylvari having been produced as a corruption-resistant army from scratch, having naturally evolved to be corruption-resistant, or the Pale Tree having lucked out on having access to something (the Dream) that allows her to extend corruption resistance to her children.

Either way, we have the following:

1) An explanation for sylvari corruption resistance has been given – the Dream. Ronin can try to nitpick the wording of the Pale Tree’s comments on the matter as much as he likes, but the fact remains that we now have an explanation and no need to look to extreme theories to explain this.

2) That sylvari can be corrupted at all suggests that the protection granted by the Dream is weaker than the Forgotten magic, as the latter seems to have rendered the subject immune to re-corruption (Kralkatorrik was unable to simply reclaim Glint, for instance).

I agree that the backpack isn’t really a lore object. I think they just thought it would be good playwise to test out some items that take some scavenging and work to create and wanted it themed by the living story. I don’t think its much more than that. I don’t think you should read any significance to the story from it.

One thing to note- Glint was pretty powerful in her own right. Its possible she was able to completely resist being re-corrupted because she wanted to, not because she had some sort of permanent ward placed on her by the forgotten magic.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

It was. By both name and the sylvari-only dialogue. The sylvari PC, Trahearne, and Pale Tree all say it was the dragon from the Dream (aka Tutorial).

Anyways, I looked at an HD video of the vision and compared it to this image of the Shadow of the Dragon pulled out of the dat, and their wings look identical to me. Both have 4 main branches with 2 bushes of trees on each wing.

OH i see!
you are absolutly right.
i dont know why i couldnt see it before but now its just so glaringly obvious

theory still woks tho wooo lol

now its just mordy looking for what i assume is the egg ( perhaps not and egg, perhaps it is an artifact granted to the zepheryts by (glint/baby glint or something glint related heh maybe the dwarves)
and this artifact is what they use to charge there aspect crystals
(which of late seem to all be broken)
and i think the master of peace is rushing to the cave where they collect there crystals from( any one else notice all those colorless (and useless as far as i know) crystals in drytop
and this all kinda fits with how we see all the crystals in the cut scene… i actually think im on the right track with this
(someone else may have said it before but not as far as iv read, if so sorry for the repeat)

Rukh.9287:

One thing to note- Glint was pretty powerful in her own right. Its possible she was able to completely resist being re-corrupted because she wanted to, not because she had some sort of permanent ward placed on her by the forgotten magic.

Forgotten artifacts in Arah remained protected against Zhaitan and his minions despite it being the Six knows how long since the protection was applied – unless the forgotten are in the habit of putting it on everything they make just in case, the forgotten artifacts in question probably date to the last activity cycle just as Glint does. This implies to me that the forgotten magic does represent a permanent ward… or at least one that’s survived for ten thousand years or so.