Guild Wars 2

First off, this is not a thread about linking Melandru to the Pale Tree or any such rubbish like that. What I want to start a conversation about is this: what would a conversation between the Pale Tree and Melandru sound like? What would they talk about? It is obvious that the Pale Tree has grandiose ideas about the purpose of her Sylvari children, and Melandru is seen by many humans (and some other races) as the embodiment of nauture. Personally, I think a sort of terf war would ensue, in which both claim to have Tyria’s best interest at heart but come from different points of veiw. Anyway, just thought this was fun to think about, and just in general it would be cool to see the human gods interact with the Sylvari and the Pale Tree. What do you all think?

Aegrahm.4952:

what would a conversation between the Pale Tree and Melandru sound like?

either the rustling of grass and the flutter of leaves (/sarcasm) or they would communicate via magic.

Aegrahm.4952:

What would they talk about?

how wonderful and beautiful life is (/sarcasm) or compare notes on how best to protect nature without stunting scientific growth (you know, avoid polution and things)

Aegrahm.4952:

Personally, I think a sort of terf war would ensue, in which both claim to have Tyria’s best interest at heart but come from different points of veiw.

honestly, i disagree. i think the two of them would get along quite well and share a fruitful relationship (pun intended, but in all seriousness i do think they’d get along well).

Aegrahm.4952:

Personally, I think a sort of terf war would ensue, in which both claim to have Tyria’s best interest at heart but come from different points of veiw.

I can totally see it, a coalition of humans and Quaggan waging war against the salad heads. They dared to insult Melandru, it’s time for some crusades. Deus vult!

BuddhaKeks.4857:

Aegrahm.4952:

Personally, I think a sort of terf war would ensue, in which both claim to have Tyria’s best interest at heart but come from different points of veiw.

I can totally see it, a coalition of humans and Quaggan waging war against the salad heads. They dared to insult Melandru, it’s time for some crusades. Deus vult!

Haha that would be great Honestly, I could also see the Pale Tree as veiwing Melandru (and the other gods) as foreign entities or seomthing like that. Perhaps stating that the gods’ meddling in affairs in Tyria is inappropriate.

Aegrahm.4952:

Honestly, I could also see the Pale Tree as veiwing Melandru (and the other gods) as foreign entities or seomthing like that. Perhaps stating that the gods’ meddling in affairs in Tyria is inappropriate.

I suppose that’s possible, if we consider the Pale Tree as a speaker for Tyria, as in the land itself – but I don’t think that is the case personally. The Pale Tree has the interests of Tyria at heart, but so (I assume) does Melandru. Melandru may be of foreign origin, but the Pale Tree doesn’t even entirely know her own origin, and she is new to Tyria too. I think the two of them would get along just fine; they would share metaphors and ways of thinking, I would imagine.

BuddhaKeks.4857:

Aegrahm.4952:

Personally, I think a sort of terf war would ensue, in which both claim to have Tyria’s best interest at heart but come from different points of veiw.

I can totally see it, a coalition of humans and Quaggan waging war against the salad heads. They dared to insult Melandru, it’s time for some crusades. Deus vult!

Well, the Quaggan probably wouldn’t care. They don’t worship Melandru.

Son of Elias.5420:

BuddhaKeks.4857:

I can totally see it, a coalition of humans and Quaggan waging war against the salad heads. They dared to insult Melandru, it’s time for some crusades. Deus vult!

Well, the Quaggan probably wouldn’t care. They don’t worship Melandru.

Besides it being a joke, the Quaggan worship Melaggan who could be the same as Melandru, since Quaggan use Melandru’s statues to worship Melaggan and other races like the Grawl are known to worship gods under different names too (Badazzar = Balthazar, though they probably only worship that one statue in Ascalon). And the same god having different names is actually rather common in real life cultures.

That would be true, except the Quaggan quite pointedly say that they do not worship Melandru under a different name.

Son of Elias.5420:

That would be true, except the Quaggan quite pointedly say that they do not worship Melandru under a different name.

I have not yet formed my opinion on this matter, but for the record I refer you above to my post re. what people believe or say about their own religion is not necessarily the same as what is going on with the real entities in question (given that they are real entities, in Tyria’s cases).

Look at the Elder Scrolls. The same gods have many different names, depending on the province you are. Example: Lorkhan/Shor/Sheor/Shezarr/Sep. All the same entity, yet several different names. It would make sense for the Quaggan to use a different name, that is easier for them to pronounce in their language.

BuddhaKeks.4857:

Look at the Elder Scrolls. The same gods have many different names, depending on the province you are. Example: Lorkhan/Shor/Sheor/Shezarr/Sep. All the same entity, yet several different names. It would make sense for the Quaggan to use a different name, that is easier for them to pronounce in there language.

It would also make sense for the quaggan to have their own goddess, Mellagan, and then to find a sunkern statue of Melandru and associate it with Mellagan because of similar imagery. It could be a case of ‘close enough’ or just become a local way of depicting her, kind of like how Lyssa is depicted differently in Tyria and Elona. The quaggan will have left behind any temples and statues dedicated to Mellagan in the homelands that they fled.

So in my opinion, it works either way. We just don’t know. It would be strange for the quaggan to worship a humanoid goddess if that’s how they always depicted her, but the statue in Gendarran Fields is quite obviously of human design.

It makes no difference if the Quaggan had their own god first and later associated statues of Melandru with it. Insult Melandru and you insult Melaggan. From the Quaggan point of view, the humans may get Melaggan’s name wrong and have some misconceptions about her, but it’s still the same entity.
Real world example: A close-minded christian and a close-minded muslim, both pray to the same abrahimic god, but they dislike the way the other prays to the god. But if an equally close-minded atheist comes along and tells them there is no god, chances are high the two will put their differences aside and berate the atheist together.

The Pale Tree pales in comparison to Melandru. It’s just a tree. Melandru makes trees grow.

I think Melandru and the Pale Tree would get on very well actually. Melandru was by far the most deplomatic of the gods, actively going out and helping the other races. Its not suprising in the least that Melandru features in so many other races myths.

Its not entirely impossible that Melandru is linked to the origins of the Pale Tree either. The Sylvari, if not related, seem to have a kind of lose kinship with druids. Melandru’s scrolls also talk about her going out and tending to Tyria to prepare it for a difficult future.

I wouldnt be suprised in the least to find the dream is something Melandru had access too either.

Hey heres a crazy theory for the day:

Melandru was, before she became a god, of the same species as the Pale Tree, hence why she is always depicted as part tree. Please note this is a crazy theory and extremely unlikely to resemble any truth in lore.:P

BuddhaKeks.4857:

It makes no difference if the Quaggan had their own god first and later associated statues of Melandru with it. Insult Melandru and you insult Melaggan. From the Quaggan point of view, the humans may get Melaggan’s name wrong and have some misconceptions about her, but it’s still the same entity.
Real world example: A close-minded christian and a close-minded muslim, both pray to the same abrahimic god, but they dislike the way the other prays to the god. But if an equally close-minded atheist comes along and tells them there is no god, chances are high the two will put their differences aside and berate the atheist together.

Actually the Quaggan claim Melaggan isnt the same god and that Melaggan is dead, killed by the Krait. Its not clear though if this is just a mistake by the Quaggen or if whatever Melaggan was was very similar to Melandru.

BuddhaKeks.4857:

It makes no difference if the Quaggan had their own god first and later associated statues of Melandru with it. Insult Melandru and you insult Melaggan. From the Quaggan point of view, the humans may get Melaggan’s name wrong and have some misconceptions about her, but it’s still the same entity.

As Lutinz said, the Quaggan wouldn’t care if you insulted Melandru. They say that Melandru is an entirely different god from Melaggan – not that the humans got the name wrong, not that it’s the same diety, but that’s an entirely different goddess.

If Melandru manifested in front of the Quaggan, they would say ‘Hi, how are you, nice human goddess’. They would not consider her to be Melaggan. They have outright said this – that it is not the same entity at all.

Amusingly, the human NPCs ignore them as well and keep assuming that other races just worship the human gods under different names, which is a certain type of arrogance there.

What makes you think the Quaggan are correct? It’s pretty much word against word and in this special case I would trust the human scholars more, since, let’s face it, Quaggan are barely smarter than individual Skritt.
Also you misunderstood me, when I said it’s the same entity, I didn’t mean in the way, like they would say Melaggan = Melandru because the humans said so, but if Melandru would decide to visit Tyria, humans would flock around her and Quaggan, who would call her Melaggan, but still see this entity as her. I admit it wasn’t worded very well before.
And the god being dead doesn’t stop them from worshipping her, so they would go in defence about it when the god is insulted (which is shown in a event when Krait try to defile a shrine of Melandru/Melaggan). They wouldn’t go on a crusade, but as I said before, that part was only a joke.

“Amusingly, the human NPCs ignore them as well and keep assuming that other races just worship the human gods under different names, which is a certain type of arrogance there.” :P

Just to clarify, Im not saying that Melaggan and Melandru arnt the same being. Its perfectly possible that they could be. Melandru did show an interest in the native species of Tyria and saught to encourage life to florish. Melaggan could simply be what Melandru was called by the Quaggan.

What I was saying is that the Quaggan dont believe her to be the same god. The Quaggan state that their god is dead, killed by the krait. We have no way of confirming if this is infact the case or not. Its worth noting though that the Quaggan are known for being maticulous keepers of history and knowledge so there was almost definately an event that the Quaggan took as the death of their goddess.

Realistically we haven’t seen much in the way of direct activity by any non human god like Koda or Melaggan.

I just figured Melaggen was like Badazar, aka one of the human gods that’s worshiped by a different name by a non human.

PS: RPly my human is 100% convinced that the Pale Tree was given to the world of Tyria by Melandru to help keep it safe during the dragons reign.

“My name is Meladgrgaslfiwan”
Humans: “Oh.. ahm… we just call you Melandru.”
Quaggan: “Oooh Melaggan, nice teeth.”

They may not be entirely unrelated. Maybe Melandru took the mantle of godhood after Melaggan died.

I’ll just leave this right here: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Melaggan. More pecisely, this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTQtgrB7uMA&feature=related#t=1m5s

It’s been confirmed for more than 2 years now that the fatty bubbleheads are indeed worshipping Melandru under a different name.

And regarding the “death” part. It easily could have been the case of what happened to the god statues in Orr: their holiest temple with a huge Melandru statue got corrupted by the Deep Sea Dragon as it pushed into their lands.

Boom! Thalador with the headshot.

Thalador.4218:

I’ll just leave this right here: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Melaggan. More pecisely, this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTQtgrB7uMA&feature=related#t=1m5s

It’s been confirmed for more than 2 years now that the fatty bubbleheads are indeed worshipping Melandru under a different name.

Thanks, I remembered that being said, but I didn’t know where to look.

I could have sworn I heard that this was a mistake on Colin’s part, and that they are not actually verified as being the same being. That being said I don’t have the link or anything of the sort.

Regardless of the interview, which may have been a mistake, the quaggan in the game specifically say they do not worship ‘Melandru under a different name’. You actually get the opportunity to ask them, point blank, and mention that Melandru isn’t dead, just lost.

Their reply is that “It’s nice for you that your god is only lost, but ours is dead.” So even if Melandru manifested in front of them, they’d only acknowledge her as a nice human goddess.

And Dustfinger, I said that about human arrogance pointedly. If you hang out in Hoelbrak, there’s a human priest walking around shouting about how the Spirits of the Wild are Melandru’s servants. Norn have the option to go up and say, “No. I don’t worship your gods.” The priest just sort of treats you like a confused five-year old and continues preaching. I’m amazed no one has hit him yet. Humans have a wide and gloried history of assuming everyone else worships their gods, but are just confused about it.

Son of Elias.5420:

Regardless of the interview, which may have been a mistake, the quaggan in the game specifically say they do not worship ‘Melandru under a different name’. You actually get the opportunity to ask them, point blank, and mention that Melandru isn’t dead, just lost.

Their reply is that “It’s nice for you that your god is only lost, but ours is dead.” So even if Melandru manifested in front of them, they’d only acknowledge her as a nice human goddess.

And Dustfinger, I said that about human arrogance pointedly. If you hang out in Hoelbrak, there’s a human priest walking around shouting about how the Spirits of the Wild are Melandru’s servants. Norn have the option to go up and say, “No. I don’t worship your gods.” The priest just sort of treats you like a confused five-year old and continues preaching. I’m amazed no one has hit him yet. Humans have a wide and gloried history of assuming everyone else worships their gods, but are just confused about it.

Many characters in game have incorrect knowledge. The Quaggan might be wrong. On the other hand they might be right. The best we have to go off is a dev comment so currently its looking like they are wrong. It wouldnt be suprising if it was Melandru. Even the charr had old creation myths that included Melandru. She was very active out in the world while the other gods mostly only focused on the humans.

Its not a huge stretch for humans to assume that another similar god for another race might be the same as one of the human gods. After all the human gods had a very real and active presence. Humans havent seen many other gods outside their pantheon that have had such a wide spread presence.

As for that priest, my memory might be wrong, but I vaguely remember the response dialog my norn had wasnt say the priest was wrong but rather that it had no significance to the norn. They deal with the spirits. They dont know Melandru and dont really care about her one way or the other. Seems a very norn way of thinking:P

Lutinz.6915:

As for that priest, my memory might be wrong, but I vaguely remember the response dialog my norn had wasnt say the priest was wrong but rather that it had no significance to the norn. They deal with the spirits. They dont know Melandru and dont really care about her one way or the other. Seems a very norn way of thinking:P

They do know about Melandru and care about her, to a certain extent, just not in a way humans would like them to. Norn do not worship, they revere. They revere the spirits, because they give them power and guide them, but they would not go to their knees and pray for aid. It’s more of a “What would Bear/Wolf/Raven/etc do?”, than a “Please help me Bear/Wolf/Raven/etc!”
And in this light, the Norn, see the human gods, they are spirits of a certain aspect, like war in Balthazar’s case or knowledge like Kormir.

@Son of Elias: I think the Quaggan don’t really understand the full concept of the human gods, so of course they would think that Melandru can’t be the same as Melaggan, with the different name and also Melandru is said to be gone, not dead. I think they are just close minded or simply not intelligent enough to see that they could be the same entity. In other words, their mind can not comprehend how Melaggan could be Melandru at the same time.
I still believe, if Melandru would show up in Tyria, the Quaggan would call her Melaggan and worship her, because she looks like the shrines they pray before currently. And yes, they say she is dead, but come on, it’s a god, resurrection shouldn’t be too hard for a god.

And as Lutinz said, many races have myths about Melandru, so it isn’t unlikely that the Quaggan know her as well, if under a different name.