Guild Wars 2

So uh, I just did CoE explorable for the first time, and one of the bosses is called Subject alpha. He’s equipped with a few skills, but a couple of them stood out.

For those that dont know, CoE is in an inquest base that’s basically researching/utilizing draconic energies. And a lot of the fights in there are against dragon minions, or bosses who share dragon themes.

Back to subject alpha. He has 2 skills of note:
Teeth of Primordus
Teeth of Mordramoth

there’s also another boss which uses something like
Teeth of Jormag
(Note: might be fang or claw of Jormag, I didnt look beyond the Jormag name, and I didnt think to get an SS of it)

Obviously these attacks are named for the Elder dragons.
Which begs the question: Who the heck is Mordramoth?
The attack causes several earth spikes to pop out of the ground. So I’d assume it’s an elder dragon relating to earth. Perhaps the unnamed 6th dragon that’s alluded to by sector green? Any thoughts?

Interesting, I was very curious about the dungeon but I haven’t had the chance to get in there yet. From the sounds though it is either something still relating to Primordus or the green plant/earth dragon. I’d love to see this solved but I have limited GW1 knowledge for any connection there and I haven’t seen that name pop up in GW2 anywhere.

Similar to Trock, I haven’t gotten a chance to go through that dungeon yet so this is interesting.

What was Subject Alpha exactly? Furthermore, if it had both Teeth of Primordus and Teeth of Mordramoth then it’s likely that the latter is a champion of Primordus. If it is an ED, then the Sixth is most likely.

there is hinting towards an earth or plant dragon throughout the world.

consider the inquest lab itself, containing 6 rooms for the 5 dragons. The room which does not pertain to a dragon (as far as we know), ie the skillpoint room, is covered with plants and poisonous fauna.

furthermore, in the CoE itself, while the party is attacked by dragon minions, there are also husks similar to that which the nightmare court employ.

I would guess that the nightmare itself may be some sort of corruption of mordramoth, but this could be false.

all we can really do for now is speculate.

also, here’s the skill on gw2db
http://www.gw2db.com/skills/14257-teeth-of-mordramoth
(and the others)
http://www.gw2db.com/skills/15624-teeth-of-jormag
http://www.gw2db.com/skills/14255-teeth-of-primordus

“What was Subject Alpha exactly?”

As near as I can tell, he is meant to be a sort of amalgamation of all the draconic energies. There are multitudes of icebrood, branded, risen, ETC in the dungeon. And he is clearly mishapen. He also spawns risen and the undead tendril things. His abilities under his name is “Morphs” or something. But I never saw him do it.

Whether Mordamoth is a champion of Primordus, or the 6th, plant/earth elder dragon remains to be seen. I was just curious if anyone had any more concrete info on it.

it would certainly be an interesting twist to have a sixth dragon that no one knows about.

Except that the Durmand Priory knows about it. They were our first indications of a sixth Elder Dragon – with jotun stalae (spelling may be off) mentioning that there were five surviving sentient races (jotun, mursaat, seer, dwarves, and forgotten) during the last rise of the Elder Dragons which mentioned six ED (or rather a “sextant of swallowers” or some such).

I would seriously be put down if the Nightmare Court are tied to this Sixth. They’re meant to be, like Dream sylvari, fighting the Elder Dragons as well. They just have a different means of doing such and view the Dream sylvari to be too weak due to their unwillingness to leave Ventari’s tenants.

I’m hoping this Sixth Elder Dragon is tied more to poison – or perhaps not to plantlife or earth at all – rather than earth. Why? Primordus twists fire and stone; Kralkatorrik’s minions utilizing lightning, crystal, and earth. We already have two Elder Dragons connected in some form to earth/dirt. A third would get relatively bland imo.

Primordus twists fire and stone; Kralkatorrik’s minions utilizing lightning, crystal, and earth. We already have two Elder Dragons connected in some form to earth/dirt. A third would get relatively bland imo.

It depends how it’s done. There are theories floating around that the sylvari/the Pale Tree are connected to a sixth dragon in some way, and while I do love the sylvari as their own independent thing, it could be cool if handled well. They did just happen to be born as the other dragons were rising.

I’m hoping for an epic reveal if there is a sixth dragon. Think about the spiny ridge in Eye of the North, and how epic it was to find out that was part of a slumbering Elder Dragon. So… how large a piece of our map might we lose when we find out we built on top of an earth dragon?!

arcqe.6734:

it would certainly be an interesting twist to have a sixth dragon that no one knows about.

The priory lady already mentions that there were “five against six” so the priory knows for sure about a 6th dragon.

We’re just trying to figure out who/what it is.

Curuniel.4830:

Primordus twists fire and stone; Kralkatorrik’s minions utilizing lightning, crystal, and earth. We already have two Elder Dragons connected in some form to earth/dirt. A third would get relatively bland imo.

It depends how it’s done. There are theories floating around that the sylvari/the Pale Tree are connected to a sixth dragon in some way, and while I do love the sylvari as their own independent thing, it could be cool if handled well. They did just happen to be born as the other dragons were rising.

I’m hoping for an epic reveal if there is a sixth dragon. Think about the spiny ridge in Eye of the North, and how epic it was to find out that was part of a slumbering Elder Dragon. So… how large a piece of our map might we lose when we find out we built on top of an earth dragon?!

Firstly, that spiny ridge in Eye of the North? That’s Kralkatorrik. :p Well, part of him.

Secondly, the sylvari as a race appeared 25 years ago, the Pale Tree appeared ~250 years ago. The Elder Dragons awake every 50 years – Primordus was meant to awake ~250 years ago, but was pushed back by 50. Meaning that if the sixth Elder Dragon is awake, it likely woke up around the same time as Primordus.

The hypothesis primarily resides on two main things: the Dream of Dream (or the mental connection between them, which is also seen among other ED minions to their respective dragon), and the sylvari being “minions.” Both fail in the long run for the following reasons:

• Firstly, I’ll cover the easier one – the minions. While every Elder Dragon corrupts in a different way, none of them creates minions. They all corrupt. However, sylvari are not a corruption, they are created – given birth, per say, by the Pale Tree. This doesn’t fit with how Elder Dragon minions are made at all.
• Secondly, on the Dream of Dream – the sylvari storyline (stop here if you care for spoilers) for Where Life Goes, So Too, Should You introduces a sylvari named Malyck. During the storyline it is discovered that he 1) did not experience the Dream of Dreams and 2) does not come from the Pale Tree. This means that there is no mental connection between all sylvari and the Pale Tree is just unique (it also debunks the theory that sylvari are humanoid due to being planted on human graves, unless that second tree was as well, which given that it’s said to be west – which would place it in the Magus Falls, perhaps near where The Falls was in GW1 – I find that unlikely).
• Another point to debunk the Pale Tree=Elder Dragon/dragon champion hypothesis (I refuse to call it a theory due to the lack of supporting evidence) is the attitude of the Pale Tree. Her personality. She is shown as a caretaker and a protector, kind and wanting to save the world from the Elder Dragons. The Elder Dragons want to “consume” the world, by which that is to say “make it like themselves” (or corrupt everything into being in their image). These are polar opposites. The sylvari are far more likely to be a form of antibiotics to the sickness that is the Elder Dragons, rather than a new kind of ED minion.

Now, it may be possible, given we see husks in the Crucible of Eternity, that the Nightmare Court is tied to Elder Dragons, but this connection does not rely on them being sylvari if so. Not with any current knowledge at least. However, I doubt their presence correlates to the Elder Dragons at all. Keep in mind that the Nightmare Court, Inquest, and bandits are in an alliance – one of the major themes of Brisban Wildlands – and furthermore that the Nightmare Court have bases around Mount Maelstrom, which is not far from the Crucible of Eternity.

The Husks’ presence may be part of the alliance between the two groups. It is possible that the Husks are given because they, like sylvari, may be immune to dragon corruption – this makes sylvari and, possibly, their husks the most preferrably “handlers” of dragon minions. If they corrupt the surroundings, you won’t get Branded sylvari – you’ll just get dead sylvari, whereas if Inquest were to handle them, you’d get Branded asura – and worse yet, Branded who know of the Inquests’ plots to tamper with Elder Dragon magic. Which means that Kralkatorrik will learn of these plots (and similarly, the other Elder Dragons should they be the ones corrupting instead).

That, in my opinion, makes far more logical sense than “sylvari are dragon minions!”

I did not know about the plot with Malyck, and will have to hope to play through it with a future character. It sounds like something I’d need the details of to evaluate (fascinating, though!).

Konig, your points are valid and I never really bought the Pale Tree = Elder Dragon hypothesis… but it is an interesting possibility. Interesting to me mainly because the Pale Tree’s attitude is so inappropriate for an Elder Dragon. I was thinking about Caderyn, the founder of the Nightmare Court. He was convinced that the Mother Tree had been more or less brainwashed by Ventari’s ideals, and he wanted to free her from that (and reveal some kind of true ‘sylvari-ness’, I assume). It would require a SERIOUS conversion, one which is probably not likely, but wouldn’t it be interesting if the Pale Tree was dragonspawn in some way (maybe an avatar/champion of a plant-type dragon, from which the seed came), but took on the ideals of Ventari’s sanctuary because of the environment in which she was raised, and thus moved away from the dragon and ‘into the light’?

It’s a stretch, but worth thinking about, I think. Kind of like Glint, but under different circumstances. If anyone was going to have a “love redeems us all” plot, you know it would be the sylvari, haha. This would also raise interesting issues about sylvari being immune to dragon corruption; do we know if the dragons powers work on each other or others’ minions?

Like I said, I’m not saying this is what I think is happening, but I enjoy thinking it through…

Interesting, sure, but not very likely. Along with this, it’d be rather boring and disappointing, to me at least, if Anet goes around linking everything to the Elder Dragons – which they said in the past they wouldn’t do (rather, what they said is that they will be making new stories and plots, to create more width in the world than depth – it’s why Abaddon’s story is only briefly brought up in GW2).

Cadeyrn in the blog post really is little more than a spoiled brat. His very first set of words proves this with his "The Pale Tree must have wanted to see me right away. She knew that I was special. I am first!” and at the end with his “I will never be one among many, Caithe. Not even to the Pale Tree. I will make you hear me, Mother, like it or not.” This is narcissism at its finest. Sadly, Twilight Arbor ruined his personality by having him glorify Faolain (whom he was said to have disdain for in interviews) – unless Faolain enchanted him greatly that is.

In short, Cadeyrn thinks that the “true sylvari” is himself. The Nightmare Court want to spread the nightmare in order to – as they claim – be free. Thing is, they’re literally just replacing one set of shackles for another, if one were to call Ventari’s teachings such, because just as the Dream sylvari are “forced” to follow Ventari’s teachings, the NC are forcing them to follow the nightmare’s teachings. It’s hypocricy at its best.

I find it impossible that the Pale Tree is a champion which broke away from its Elder Dragon – reason being is that the sole example, Glint, only could thanks to the forgotten performing a powerful spell to give her own independent will. That is to say, all dragon minions – champion or not – do not have free will (yet retain a personality). So unless their lost-until-Zhaitan’s-death (perhaps – the spell is searched for during the Arah explorable dungeon, but I haven’t finished such) spell was somehow used on the Pale Tree and Malyck’s tree (remember: whatever happened to the Pale Tree must have happened to Malyck’s tree too, otherwise Malyck would be like other ED minions – seeking destruction and corruption and the appeasal of his Elder Dragon, nothing more), then the Pale Tree can’t be a reformed minion of any ranking.

In short, we quite literally have nothing in support for the hypothesis, and everything we have disproves it. But yet still, people think it’s possible just because it’s an “interesting” plot twist and there’s a “Zone Green” with plants in the ED-research institution of the Inquest.

So I just completed the personal storyline and the skritt, Ftochak, says “Underground rock dragon next, yes-yes?” as part of his dialogue. So people are relating Primordus to rocks as well as fire, so Mordramoth is more likely, at this point imo, to be a champion of Primordus than the sixth Elder Dragon.

Pretty interesting, indeed.

I don’t think it fits Mordramoth being a champion. Still need to check the rest of his attacks, to analyze what it could be.

We still have 2 unnamed dragons: “Bubbles” and “Sixth”.

Oh, so that’s where you got the names from?

How interesting. Given that Alpha seems to be a conglomerate of dragon mutations, Mordramoth probably is our sixth. Not even gonna touch the sylvari conspiracy that crops up in every other thread, though.

I went through my own experience with the fight and the skills and came across this. Consider:

Teeth of Jormag: Frost AoE
Teeth of Primordus: Fire/Dragon Fang AoE
Teeth of Mordramoth: Earth crag AoE line

On a whim I searched, and looked what I found:
http://www.gw2db.com/skills/14254-tooth-of-kralkatorrik

The second and third times you fight Alpha, he will randomly encase a party member in purple crystal. Identical to the crystals used by the Shatterer, among many other Branded minions. I could not find a skill name for it, but he most definitely does animate nearby Inquest corpses into Risen asura, as well as summoning undead tendrils.

I’m not 100% sure of it, but I do want to point out – the pattern fits.

Having just done both Crucible of Eternity story and one explorable path, as well as explored the zone areas a bit, I think I can put a firm grasp on things.

Firstly, in the story mode you can see in the “Experimental Lab Green” (if I recall the room name accurately) Summoned Husks and Nightmare Hounds – that is to say, Nightmare Court plant creatures. Thing to note is that the Inquest and Nightmare Court have an alliance going on, so it’s likely the Inquest are simply studying the nightmare’s affects and the NC don’t mind since they like spreading pain – even to themselves. Alternatively, they could be being provided as a means of handling the dragon minions – assuming the plants NC members create hold the same corruption resistance as sylvari, that is. But along with this, the Zone Green in the Infinite Coil Reactor holds poisonous plants – much like the plant sector of the Thaumanova Reactor (which is similarly divided into 6 sections, though the 6th doesn’t seem to be undead related – fun fact, the Infinite Coil Reactor, aka Crucible of Eternity’s location, was created after the Thaumanova Reactor’s explosion, seemingly under the same experiments). This implies that the sixth Elder Dragon is poison based. That is, assuming it’s even still alive.

As to Alpha himself – I am not quite sure where Mordramoth comes into play truth be told. Indeed, the naming and abilities seem to match a “one per Elder Dragon” situation – however, he has three attacks for Zhaitan, and just one for Kralkatorrik and Jormag each. So it’s not unlikely to believe that Primordus can hold two. What’s most interesting is at the end of the personal story – the very last mission, a skritt there (one you befriend during the racial sympathy storyline) says it wants to go after the “underground rock dragon” and as we know, destroyers are made of fire and stone.

This implies to me that the rock attack is intended to be Primordus-based. Which leaves the question: who is Mordramoth. I’m most inclined to say “a champion.” To further this, there’s a complete lack of water-based attacks indicating that the Inquest have not gotten their hands on any of the DSD’s minions.

One last note to argue Mordramoth being Primordus-related is Kudu’s Monster from the story mode. Like Subject Alpha, Kudu’s Monster holds abilities of many different Elder Dragons – some shared with Subject Alpha. It’s highly likely that the risen giant-turned “dragon champion” is also referred to as Project Beta (or Delta, etc. etc.) – that is to say, Subject Alpha being the precursor. Back to the point though: Kudu’s Monster only has skills very obviously tied to the four active Elder Dragons, lacking any earth-related, plant-related, or water-related skills.

Rather than say anything else about the “Pale Tree is dragon/champion” stuff, I’ll just point out.

People don’t like it when everything gets all linked back to a single source. Blizzard’s doing that with the Naaru(Draenei, Tauren, Humans, Night Elves(going that way, at least), Blood Elves etc) are ALL linked to or owe their powers/abilities to the Naaru in some way.

And people haaaaaaaaate that.

So I imagine that ANet won’t make the same mistake and link eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeverything back to the Elder Dragons somehow, especially since they already said they don’t want to do that.

They can start with the Sylvari by hopefully coming out and stating at some point that they aren’t related to the dragons, other than wanting to fight them.

@Illushia the night Elves were not part of the Naaru group. Their source of power come from Elune herself. The rest of them yes. But I see where you going with is. I hated blizzard doing this like that a specially when it’s comes to theTauren who at one upon a time they had a tribe who where call the sun walkers who draw their powers from the sun which blizzard changed said they draw it fom the Naaru thus they can be paladins. The blood elf I can accept with the way they explain it but till it still sounded wrong anyway.

@Illushia the night Elves were not part of the Naaru group. Their source of power come from Elune herself. The rest of them yes. But I see where you going with is. I hated blizzard doing this like that a specially when it’s comes to theTauren who at one upon a time they had a tribe who where call the sun walkers who draw their powers from the sun which blizzard changed said they draw it fom the Naaru thus they can be paladins. The blood elf I can accept with the way they explain it but till it still sounded wrong anyway.

The most recent CDev all but confirmed that Elune is a Naaru, so yeah.

@Illushia really oh my! They truly have lost their ways. its good that i quite the game for games like Guild wars. i use to love the lore for World of Warcraft now its nothing more but a joke. well ArenaNet i hope you guys a paying attention to this. I will hate it if you guys pull the same thing that blizzard did.

Konig Des Todes.2086 –
1) Wrong, both Zhai and Primordus create their minions via their champions from already existing energy remains (Zhai uses corpses, Primo fossils and well… the Pale tree uses the energy of nature and the sun itself)
2) True, but remember, all champions share the history of the others, thus it would be pretty much safe to say that the new sylvari came from a tree planted after the one we have there or the same as what i suspect to be Bubbles, the corrupted of the Jade Wind, a lot of the Saltspray dragons, that got taken away and raised by someone/something else aint hostile and one that we know is special, Kuunavang, got only corrupted because of Shiro/Abbadon, has free will and “helps” the heros in the same way Glint did (by actually ruining the whole situation even more, causing Shiro to get to Abbadon with his army and making everyone in Cantha even freaking more xenophobi)
3) As a continuation of 2), remember, the Nightmare Court are the sylvari that actually just follow their own “will”, everyone else is under the guidance of Human and Centaur friendship teachings (Ventari tablet), thus making them actually the corrupt ones for being “the protectors” and nice and kind, also the fact that they didnt do anything against the asura essencially killing and experimenting on them for a while shows even more how drone like they are.

@Andele
1) That’s… exactly what I said, really. Though your wording isn’t exactly correct. Elder Dragon minions come from something, however their energy comes from themselves (or at least that’s what Snaff and in turn the Inquest go after – from what I heard on Gorr’s research, it’s more of that they absorb magic (aka energy) from other things, twist it, and re-exert it back into what becomes the corrupted land/minions). Sylvari, however, are not pre-existing "something"s.

2) I’m not really sure what your point is here, but if I’m right what you mean to say is that all champions share knowledge of each other? If that’s the case, wrong. All minions share their knowledge with the Elder Dragon, who in turn gives them varying degrees of information. Think of Elder Dragons as a nexus or a server with champions being nodes and minions being the devices connected to said server.

The Jade Wind holds no relation to any ELder Dragon at this time. And the Deep Sea Dragon has no relation to Cantha at this time as well (it’s heavily implied, though not stated, to have come from where the krait lived prior to 50 years ago – that is to say, the deepest trenches of the Unending Ocean which, while between Tyria and Cantha, means that it’s as far from Cantha as it is from Tyria). Kuunavang’s another topic all together, but if she and the Saltspray Dragons are tied to an Elder Dragon, it’s unlikely to be a similar case to Glint (then again, the forgotten were present in Cantha and there’s supposedly some Deldrimor relics in the Jade Sea too).

3) This isn’t entirely true. Take, for instance, Malyck who is not concerned at all with Ventari’s teachings. He is more akin to the Dream sylvari than the Nightmare Court. Also, if you actually listen to some of the Nightmare Court lines during any infiltration personal story (specifically I recall one during the Shield of the Moon storyline), they are outright hypocrites. They force their way onto others in order to remove the “shackles” of Ventari’s teachings. Along with this, it should be noted that it’s repeatedly stated that once you enter the Nightmare you cannot leave or be brought back.

I would disagree with the notion that Dream sylvari not doing anything to the asura means that they’re drone like. You should visit Brisban Wildlands where the Nightmare Court are in an alliance with the Inquest. Also take note that it was Kudu, leader of the Inquest, who tortured Malomedies. In other words, the Nightmare Court, established by a sylvari who wanted to wipe out all asura because of the actions of a few, is now allied with those few who were the cause of Cadeyrn wanting revenge.

I’d argue that the Nightmare Court is far more messed up than the Dream sylvari.

But bringing back Malyck, he’s the main case-in-point for what a “true sylvari” would be most like. While rougher and less forgiving than most sylvari, he’s most akin to Caithe (or rather, with how Caithe deals with Nightmare Court – she shows no mercy to them at all). Interesting note: instead of using Malyck as a “this is a true sylvari” the Nightmare Court are instead wanting to corrupt Malyck’s tree instead of the Pale Tree – I think that’s the utmost proof that the Nightmare Court are not “natural sylvari” since they want to corrupt sylvari unaffected by either the Ventari tablet or the Dream of Dreams.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Except that the Durmand Priory knows about it. They were our first indications of a sixth Elder Dragon – with jotun stalae (spelling may be off) mentioning that there were five surviving sentient races (jotun, mursaat, seer, dwarves, and forgotten) during the last rise of the Elder Dragons which mentioned six ED (or rather a “sextant of swallowers” or some such).

I would seriously be put down if the Nightmare Court are tied to this Sixth. They’re meant to be, like Dream sylvari, fighting the Elder Dragons as well. They just have a different means of doing such and view the Dream sylvari to be too weak due to their unwillingness to leave Ventari’s tenants.

I’m hoping this Sixth Elder Dragon is tied more to poison – or perhaps not to plantlife or earth at all – rather than earth. Why? Primordus twists fire and stone; Kralkatorrik’s minions utilizing lightning, crystal, and earth. We already have two Elder Dragons connected in some form to earth/dirt. A third would get relatively bland imo.

about the nightmare court supposed to be fighting the dragon as well:

1. do the dragons not attack each other if they encroach on another dragon’s territory?
2. how many dragons do sylvari currently care about as a whole?
3. which army has just tried to invade the maguuma jungle?

1. yes
2. one, zhaitan
3. The Risen

if the pale tree IS a dragon’s champion or a dragon, who’s to say that the sylvari don’t only care because they are feeling territorial?

I don’t think that through playing the entire personal story up to the creation of the pact, I’ve once heard a non order sylvari say the words Kralkatorrik, Jormag, or Primordus (except caithe, but she’s an exception being in destiny’s edge)

The Pact is focusing on Zhaitan because he’s the most active and outright dangerous dragon around at the moment.

Illushia.3721:

The Pact is focusing on Zhaitan because he’s the most active and outright dangerous dragon around at the moment.

sure, the pact is, they were formed SPECIFICALLY for fighting zhaitan, but id just seems odd that even with the branded, icebrood, and destroyers, there are very few sylvari bothering with the other dragons.

one intersting thing is this:
how many sylvari have we seen/heard of that have orr/risen/zhaitan as a wyld hunt?

all of the valiants, you, and trahearne.
how many are bothered with the other dragons?

not only that, we fight ONE dragon at the start, not 5, and everyone immediately says “yeah it’s zhaitan, go kill him”. does that mean that our characters are only going to kill zhaitan? or did it mean the ED’s in general? and if so, why did they focus so much on it being zhaitan?

@Calcifire:
1) Yes, fair point, but not really strong argument since we don’t know how ED feel about the other ED on a whole.
2) Wrong. They care about defeating all Elder Dragons. Zhaitan’s just the most pressing to them, most likely due to proximity to the all races (he’s the closest to the most races, and he’s also the one who’s showing to be the biggest threat in the initial release).
3) Risen… and Destroyers.

If the sylvari were merely being territorial, they wouldn’t invade Orr, or defend Kryta, or join the Orders, or go into the Steamspur Mountains (which both Dream and Nightmare sylvari do).

Zhaitan’s the one talked about because, as said, he’s the biggest threat. But they want to fight all Elder Dragons. Every. Single. One.

And they act nothing like ED minions – at all.

By the way, there are actually non-Order sylvari interested in the Dragonbrand (one of which can be found, lost, in Hoelbrak).

At the Infinite Coil’s green area, what about the Binary language which translates to “Pale Tree”?

I think that confirms the Pale Tree is at least being studied in the same areas they study dragons.

That doesn’t mean it’s a dragon though. It just means it’s being studied.

Having done the explorable mode of Crucible of Eternity that leads through “Experimental Green Lab” – I just want to note that there is not a single sylvari there.

It seems more likely that the Inquest are trying to study the sylvari’s immunity to Elder Dragons, possibly improve it since there’s an “Evolved Husk” which seems to have been made from the Inquests’ expreiments.

But there’s absolutely no trace of sylvari in the Infinite Coil Reactor or the Crucible of Eternity – just the plant-based creations they have (husks, volatile blossoms, and nightmare hounds).

This feels like a red herring to me.

Mordramoth = Deep Sea Dragon?

Doubtful, since the attack linked to it is earth-based, whereas the Primordus one is fire, and the Jormag one is ice. There are no water-based attacks (and as far as we know, the Inquest hasn’t experimented with the sole DSD they seem to have captured).

I can only hope it isn’t this thing they’ve captured…

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/581322_10150817154994209_1163881842_n.jpg

This is just a thought on the dragon we call six, whether or not we call him Mordramoth. This elder dragon, if it exists and/or is still alive, has a control of nature and/or poison. Now there is 1 area in Tyria where major changes are taking place when it comes to the natural landscape and we have no current elder dragon to point to as the cause of it, and that is the Maguuma Wastes. Now I know that this area has been somewhat desert like since GW1, but things have definitely gotten worse in the area over the past few centuries. Now personally I would attribute this, as well as Mount Maelstrom, to the bloodstones found in the respective areas, but the sixth elder dragon also seems like a possibility. My only issue with the sixth elder dragon living in Tyria, the continent, is the fact that it seems strange that they should all be centered around that 1 continent, with the exception of Bubbles.

@Narcemus

considering the dragons consume magic, it is possible that they are drawn to the bloodstones, which are known to be extremely magically potent and located throughout Tyria.

I do not believe anything states that Sixth is still alive.

Also, Primordus has been potentially everywhere in Tyria, so he could have been at the Maguuma Wastes (the original theory when it was mentioned that the Maguuma Wastes dried up – which is something that underground heat will do to the water there).

Where is it said that Mount Maelstrom’s caused by a bloodstone? As far as I know, it’s destroyers that caused it. Or was that just a hypothesis on your part?

Arguably, Jormag isn’t centered in continental Tyria, since he awoke north of the explorable GW1 area, and was personally in the arctic seas to the north it seems (he capsized kodan icebergs).

Actually everything I’ve read today, as I explored Frostgorge Sound says that he awoke directly beneath Drakkar Lake, perhaps in a larger underground cavern or something else. And yes, I have had my theories about both Mount Maelstrom and the Maguuma Wastes being caused by the bloodstones, perhaps dragons tampering with them, or perhaps their magic trying to work against the dragon’s magic. This is all entirely theoretical though. But we do know that there are bloodstones at both of these locations, 1 in bloodstone fen, and 1 located between the ice caves of sorrow mission and the bloodstone caves dungeon. I think it is too much of a coincidence to be ignored though.

While I haven’t been able to fully explore Frostgorge Sound yet, we’re told by developers that Jormag awoke to the north of where the norn once lived, and pushed south and north after his awakening.

If I recall correctly, it was said in a Guru2 post by Stephane Lo Presti (acting as a medium for Jeff Grubb responding to a topic about Jormag and Drakkar), but it seems that Guru2 has deleted quite a lot of posts in archiving old threads which is… bad, since Stephane/Jeff’s confirmation that Jormag was not underneath Drakkar Lake is now gone.

It was a fairly big deal at Guru2 about Jormag being under Drakkar Lake or not, and we had Word of God confirmation that he, in fact, wasn’t. So now having GW2 information saying that he was under Drakkar Lake, after such a big deal caused from the supposed retcon, just to revert it back to the original assumption… makes no sense.

I do not know what to tell you, but if you get a chance to explore Frostgorge further I recommend the northwestern corner, because that area was where the kodan told me about his awakening under Drakkar if I remember correctly.

I just had another thought by the way which might help a little to make sense of your conundrum. Perhaps the entire northern sea has been called Drakkar since the time of Jormag’s awakening. I noted that the area in the northernmost corner of Frostgorge Sound is called Drakkar spurs, and it seems to be an outlet for the northern sea. This might make sense out of his awakening happening north, yet still by some being considered to have awakened under Drakkar.

That is one possibility, however, GW1 Drakkar Lake seems to be at the northern end of the in-land sea (name still unknown). And furthermore, that’s a sea not a lake. So unless it opens up to yet another body of water or some such north of the GW2 map, and that ends up being where Drakkar Lake is considered (though not where it was in GW1), then it’d be possible. Or it’d be that Jormag awoke in the middle of norn territory and not to the north of them, which would similarly contradict the previously stated lore (both in and out of the game as there’s a norn NPC in Hoelbrak, iirc, that says Jormag came from the north of the old norn lands).

So in other words, the only real option is that the Kodan were given the wrong dialogue and ArenaNet needs to figure this out? I personally prefer the point of view that the inlet to the sea from the north leads to the location that Jormag awoke. It makes sense that his abode would be feeding into this new body of water that flooded much of Norn Territory. And since it is connected to this very large body of water it could still be said that he awoke under the area now known as the “Drakkar Sea” (speculation to the possible name). Notably though there is still quite a bit of water north of even Sifhalla which was the northern-most norn settlement, going off of that_Shaman’s map.

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