Guild Wars 2

I know this topic has been done to death before but since the search function doesn’t work and in light of Scarlet making this kind of speculation relevant again I thought I would bring it up. – I also apologise in advance for the formatting and density, I’m going to assume that it might be a bit of a kitten to get through.

There have been theories going on for a while now about several in-game foes that may have been corrupted by the Elder Jungle Dragon (who we all fondly refer to as Mordremoth and I will continue to do so from this point onwards).

Exhibit a) The Great Jungle Wurm in Wychmire Swamp, most of us are familiar with this event and the ominous dialogue hinting at a “darker force” in the jungle.
Accompanying the GJW are Summoned Husks and Nightmare Hounds so we have obvious links to the Nightmare Court, as well as a hint that this goes beyond them.

With the most recent living story update we saw the introduction of exhibit b) the three-headed Wurm (although to be honest I’m not really sure how we know it’s three headed rather than just three separate wurms? Is there an explanation for that anywhere?). The three Wurm heads are accompanied by husks which suggests that there could be a connection between this new Wurm and the GJW of Wychmire Swamp. With this I want to point out the lack of Nightmare Court presence in the new event, my personal feelings here are that the Nightmare Court have been corrupted by Mordremoth in some way, but since the Sylvari bare no direct relation to Mordremoth the lack of NC presence in the new Wurms events isn’t of particular note (Sylvari are not minions of Mordremoth, the Pale Tree is NOT a dragon champion – I personally suspect that the Nightmare is a form of dragon corruption that allows Mordremoth to gain a foothold on the Dream and corrupt the Sylvari, circumventing their immunity).

It seems plausible that these Wurms could be champions of Mordremoth, given that they are able to call minions (Husks, Nightmare Hounds and Wurms) into battle with them and given that the fights against them are akin to the Tequatl fight (although that alone hardly proves anything).

From here I want to look beyond the Wurms to two other instances of possible corruption (both of which have been remarked on before). Exhibit c) the Champion Rotting Ancient Oakheart in Queensdale. There are a couple of things of note during this event; the first is the environmental effect (visual rather than a mechanic) which is to my knowledge seen only in one other place (in Ogham Wilds), the second is the presence of “Tree Parasites”, and thirdly the notion of corruption and the need to destroy the corrupted creature in order to stop the spread of said corruption. It seems as though both the parasites and Oakheart have the ability/potential to spread corruption, and as with other dragon minions they need to be destroyed in order to ensure that the corruption is not spread. Whilst this event doesn’t present us with anything conclusive, I think that when considered in relation to the event which I will mention presently it is definitely important.

Exhibit d) the Veteran Nightmare Mosshearts in the Ogham Wilds. These Mosshearts have been corrupted by the Nightmare Court and need to be destroyed to prevent them from further corrupting the surrounding wild life. Of note is Arias, a nearby NPC, saying “Once turned, the mossheart would never have broken free from the vile hatred of the nightmare. We had no other option but to destroy it.” as well as “When the Nightmare Court’s influence takes over, it can never be purged.”

The idea of the Nightmare Court’s influence being irreversible is something that we encounter throughout the game, we know that Sylvari who have turned to Nightmare cannot be brought back to the Dream and we know that any creature that they break and force into servitude cannot be brought back either (for example Nightmare Hounds and Spiders). This could suggest that the Nightmare Court are minions of Mordremoth (not an uncommon theory). Of course what people like to also say is that Sylvari as a race are Mordremoths minions, and that is where I would like to use the above to disagree. There is a clear distinction between Nightmare and the Dream, and it seems as though Nightmare is equivalent to corruption. I think in this sense it can be likened to Jormag’s corruption of the Sons of Svanir, they worship him as the spirit of ‘dragon’ and so they become corrupted under his influence, and yet they are clearly distinct from other dragon minions in that they are not completely mindless – they retain a reasonable amount of intellect. They do however go through changes in their physical appearance, eventually becoming more akin to regular dragon minions. I would suggest then that the Nightmare Court are in the early stages of corruption, and given Mordremoth’s relatively low presence in Tyria at the moment I would say that they have not yet begun to be corrupted further.

I want to return to talking about the Ogham Wilds because it is the area in which the Sylvari tutorial takes place. Of course the tutorial takes place within the Dream, however the fact that the area looks like the Ogham Wilds possibly suggests that there is a link between the two, or at least that the Dream has a strong connection to this place. That idea is further supported by the Skill Point found here, which reads “The water here scintillates with a dream-like quality that awakens the imagination. Among sylvari, it is legendary as a landmark that straddles the barrier between the Dream and the real world.” From this I want to point out that the surrounding area is heavily populated by Wurms, of course that’s not conclusive but given the corrupted dragon we see within the Dream and the possibility that Wurms are minions of Mordremoth (at least some of them anyway), their presence in this area could provide sufficient reasoning for the presence of the corrupted dragon in the Dream. (I would say that the presence of the Nightmare Court could also indicate this, but they’re prevalent throughout Caledon Forest and whilst there could be a link between the two I wouldn’t want to pass it off as a solid link.

The final thing I want to discuss is the Nightmare, which I would like to suggest is a form of dragon corruption. To be clear I don’t want to suggest in any way that the Pale tree is related to Mordremoth – because I simply don’t believe that in the slightest. Instead what I want to suggest is that the Nightmare is Mordremoth’s way of gaining a foothold on the Dream and gaining influence over Sylvari.

We know that Sylvari are immune to dragon corruption – but it could be possible that the Dream itself does not share that immunity, or at the very least the dream provides a way for that immunity to be circumvented. So I would suggest that when Caddeyrn first opened his heart to Nightmare he allowed Mordremoth to gain some sort of foothold in the dream, which could account for the presence of the corrupted dragon. It could also account for Faolin taking over as leader of the Nightmare Court, the Firstborn have stronger connection to the Pale Tree and (?) to the Dream, so she would have the ability to strengthen the influence of the Nightmare, and possibly Mordremoth, on the Dream.

The purpose of the above is not to suggest that my opinion is correct, but more to point out possible links and open a discussion on the topics covered above. If you disagree with anything then that is great! If you have anything factual that suggests that anything above is definitely not correct then that’s even better!

- I apologise again for posting such a large wall of text.

A couple points,

It’s unlikely the night the nightmare court are corrupted by dragon’s. The court has been around a while, and Faolin would probably have morphed into something less sylvari looking.

The theory that the dream is susceptible to dragon corruption seems unlikely.

You should read this:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dream_of_Dreams

I have read that. I’m more of trying to suggest that if a dragon were behind any of it then they would be using the Nightmare as a platform to work off of, even as a way of indirectly impacting the dream to pull Sylvari over to it’s side.

I completely get what you’re saying in regards to Faolin and I guess that’s where it’s harder to make things fit. We’ll see in time though >.> Maybe everyone will be wrong about everything.

ANet confirmed someone is right about everything, they just didn’t say what or who

Shockwave.1230:

ANet confirmed someone is right about everything, they just didn’t say what or who

Whaat? Is there a source of the confirmation?

Personally I believe that the nightmare court is kind of comparable with the sons of Svanir. Still able to think and act with their free will but in a kind of twisted way. I too think theres more about Caithe and how she kills every Nightmare courtier that crosses her way. It kind of reminds me of Jora who had to kill her brother to reconnect with the bear spirit after Jormags corruption had touched her (or drained the magic from her). Maybe she had taken damage from whatever she and Faolain had encountered..

Also I want to mention theres a place in Caledon Forest right between the Nightmare village and the gateway to Brisbane wilds where there are dead Oakhearts (that twitch when you make a screenshot) and green glowing Shadow imps. And the walls look as if made from oakheart faces. And at the end of the corridor theres something that resembles an eye. Quiet an interesting place for everyone who speculates about Mordremoth imo.

Hey FlamingFoxx,
I think that your idea is really good. Granted the thoery linking Mordremoth to the Nightmare Court isn’t new but then again new information may be at hand helping us to understand the dynamics behind this.

One thing that I find interesting is that the Champion Partially Consumed Husks of the Three-headed Great Jungle Wurm of Bloodtide Coast are infected with parasites from the Wurm’s digestive system. I wonder if those same parasites are what we observe in greater detail on the Champion Ancient Rotting Oakheart of Queensdale (and the Veterna Rotting Oakheart of Thaumanova, which was probably displaced from Queensdale and may well have been infected by the Champion) and if said parasites are also present in the Veteran Mosshearts of the Ogham Wilds. The visually identical effects at both the Great Weald and Aria’s Garden are the only things connecting these two locations, only in that although at the Ogham Wilds Wurms are present (surrounding the base of the Pale Tree and possibly also actually boring into the PT’s trunk) this does not seem to be the case at Queensdale. I suppose my point is simply that my association of the Champion Partially Consumed Husks with these other events is hampered by a lack of any other associative evidence.

Anyway, returning to your idea: Great thought. It will be interesting to see what develops in the future.

I dont know if this has been discussed already but since the husks come from the belly of the wurm, where did he get them from? Was he in sleep until recently or was he just living underground until recently? That would mean he got them from undergroeund, right? Or that he would have eaten them just in the time he is awake but afaik there arent any husks in the Bloodtide Coast.

The monster husks that we see are likely to be husks (remnants) of some other living matter, so they could be husks of sylvari, husks of trees, husks of pods, husks of druids, husks of trolls, whatever. We don’t really know how husks are made but I see no reason to worry about how the worms do it.

@Stephen, really great catch with the parasites! I think that adds some credibility to the theory.

So how does Issormir fit into all of this?

Zomaarwat.3912:

So how does Issormir fit into all of this?

Issormir is an ice wurm – also I’m not saying that all Wurms would be aligned to the dragon – just that there are some that have been corrupted. Wurms have been around in GW for far too long for them to all be dragon minions. But jungle wurms – not so much.

In GW1 we only had (generalising out of the different species by appearance) frost wurms, regular fleshy wurms, and sand wurms – No Jungle Wurms, despite our ability to explore through the Maguuma Jungle and the Tarnished Coast. So it’s quite possible that Jungle Wurms are corrupted regular Wurms?

FlamingFoxx.1305:

In GW1 we only had (generalising out of the different species by appearance) frost wurms, regular fleshy wurms, and sand wurms – No Jungle Wurms, despite our ability to explore through the Maguuma Jungle and the Tarnished Coast. So it’s quite possible that Jungle Wurms are corrupted regular Wurms?

Or they could simply be a species that had no reason to surface until now. Or, I know the map shown in the Chantry of Secrets is inaccurate, it is possible they were found deeper in the jungle and have been forced to migrate to the areas we can explore.

FlamingFoxx.1305:

Zomaarwat.3912:

So how does Issormir fit into all of this?

Issormir is an ice wurm – also I’m not saying that all Wurms would be aligned to the dragon – just that there are some that have been corrupted. Wurms have been around in GW for far too long for them to all be dragon minions. But jungle wurms – not so much.

In GW1 we only had (generalising out of the different species by appearance) frost wurms, regular fleshy wurms, and sand wurms – No Jungle Wurms, despite our ability to explore through the Maguuma Jungle and the Tarnished Coast. So it’s quite possible that Jungle Wurms are corrupted regular Wurms?

Possible, yes, but it’s quite the stretch. Jungle wurms are distributed by biome, not territory, like Tyria’s natural creatures and unlike dragon minions. Furthermore, in most places jungle wurms live in close proximity to other creatures without corrupting them, again like other wurms and unlike dragon minions. The only thing really going for them is that they’re new and that the Nightmare Court uses them, but I don’t see anyone jumping to say spiders or plated behemoths are dragon minions.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

FlamingFoxx.1305:

Zomaarwat.3912:

So how does Issormir fit into all of this?

Issormir is an ice wurm – also I’m not saying that all Wurms would be aligned to the dragon – just that there are some that have been corrupted. Wurms have been around in GW for far too long for them to all be dragon minions. But jungle wurms – not so much.

In GW1 we only had (generalising out of the different species by appearance) frost wurms, regular fleshy wurms, and sand wurms – No Jungle Wurms, despite our ability to explore through the Maguuma Jungle and the Tarnished Coast. So it’s quite possible that Jungle Wurms are corrupted regular Wurms?

Possible, yes, but it’s quite the stretch. Jungle wurms are distributed by biome, not territory, like Tyria’s natural creatures and unlike dragon minions. Furthermore, in most places jungle wurms live in close proximity to other creatures without corrupting them, again like other wurms and unlike dragon minions. The only thing really going for them is that they’re new and that the Nightmare Court uses them, but I don’t see anyone jumping to say spiders or plated behemoths are dragon minions.

Which is why I only think it’s the two giant Wurms that can be tied to a dragon.
But oh well, we will see eventually.

I personally don’t think the ancient three-headed Great Jungle Wurm is tied to Mordremoth. Possible, but not entirely likely, IMO.