Guild Wars 2

Pavees.7281:

Also koro knew of spectral agony and possibly just assumed she died of it(she even says she thinks she succumbed to it). if you saw 300 mursaat chase a person and the person dies you know of spectral agony then you’d assume the same as well since it’d be all you’d have to go with it unless told otherwise.

How would she even know what Spectral Agony is? How would she know the name of the affliction, if it wasn’t something that was known, had a name, and was identifiable? By definition it has to be identifiable, because Koro calls it by its name. You wouldn’t say someone died of small pocks unless you knew how to recognize what a victim of the affliction looks like.
[/quote]

The spell is referred to it by that during the previous missions. Remember that asuran who was working on a counter to the spell WHICH THEY REFER to by name? they know when the mursaat kill people they do it effectively and wanted to figure a counter on a large scale(it’s why the seer corpse was there it was referencing knowledge we found out during prophicies).

Pavees.7281:

If i wanted to be hostile i wouldn’t dance round the bush. If i wanted to be hostile i’d probably just take it to private stuff(which is petty and serves no purpose). Feeling strongly bout stuff and wanting the discussion to be equal doesn’t mean the person is angry.

I don’t mind being wrong but i don’t think anyone likes being told they are wrong for the sake of they think the person is wrong. It’s a matter of respect. I admit your ground has points but i still argue my case. You did admit it’s possible(took awhile) which allows this particular topic to be at an impasse and allow us to move on;

Like I said, intentional or not.

Also, I’m not sure what you mean by “being told they are wrong for the sake of they think the person is wrong” – I mean, if you didn’t think the person was wrong, then you’d be only lying by claiming they’re wrong right? Or am I misunderstanding what you mean. Cuz you can only, without lying, say someone else is wrong unless you believe them to be wrong.

And as to me admitting it’s possible for no physical harm…

Pavees.7281:

we don’t know how spectral agony would look like or if it left a trace or if even the shining blade know what it looks like anymore.

This conversation began, in terms of this direction of the conversation, with this statement. Specifically the bolded.

So technically, while I do say it is possible – but extremely unlikely given Koro’s wording – that Spectral Agony would leave no physical damage, I still stand by my original statement that we know it would leave identifiable traits and that these traits were known. Otherwise, Koro saying such would be pure out-of-her-butt speculation, which is not something a trained military soldier does when reporting a situation to a superior officer. Not unless they’re asked.

She had reports of alot of mursaat chasing langmar and keiran so i’d just assume she’d assume that spectral agony would be involved given that their spell was so terrifying they had to draft an asuran to study a seer body to make a counter spell to spectral agony.

Detectives usually have to think of ways for how things go down and they usually look at the obvious details and work with them. it doesn’t mean they would just assume the first guess is the right one(she’s no detective though).

We can’t personally see the evidence nor compare it to anything and we can’t just assume she’s had alot of experience with it unless told otherwise given that before the war started she probably wasn’t even aware of the mursaat or spectral agony to begin with.

I think we’ve discussed this as far as it’s gonna go and i have to leave to go on a trip so i’m just saying i’m done with the discussion and moving on.

Pavees.7281:

We can’t personally see the evidence nor compare it to anything and we can’t just assume she’s had alot of experience with it unless told otherwise given that before the war started she probably wasn’t even aware of the mursaat or spectral agony to begin with.

I think we’ve discussed this as far as it’s gonna go and i have to leave to go on a trip so i’m just saying i’m done with the discussion and moving on.

For a soldier to know what Spectral Agony is, and to recognize its effects on a corpse, makes it perfectly clear to me that Spectral Agony does leave marks. That is the evidence we have as a frame of reference. And for her to recognize it as such, she must have had prior experience with it. At least once or twice.

Pavees.7281:

She had reports of alot of mursaat chasing langmar and keiran

Source please. Because I just went through the dialogues with them. It only says “White Mantle army” – never makes mention of mursaat nor jade constructs.

Any reports of what followed them would be given by the PC, Livia, Zinn, Blimm, the Ascalonian Settlers, or Captain Greywind.

Pavees.7281:

so i’d just assume she’d assume that spectral agony would be involved given that their spell was so terrifying they had to draft an asuran to study a seer body to make a counter spell to spectral agony.

That’s a mighty kittenumption, given the fact it’s a well known fact that there were only 4 Mursaat alive at the time (excluding Lazarus) of Langmar’s disappearance, so the statement of “lots of mursaat” had to be wrong no matter who said it – be it your mind or some NPC.

Pavees.7281:

We can’t personally see the evidence nor compare it to anything and we can’t just assume she’s had alot of experience with it unless told otherwise given that before the war started she probably wasn’t even aware of the mursaat or spectral agony to begin with.

However, given the large amount of Jade constructs fought, it seems likely that the most elite unit of the Ebon Vanguard would encounter enough of them or their recovered victims to see the effects of Spectral Agony.

Konig,

I think your argument is resting on a single presumption – that Koro is incredibly precise and technical in the way she talks. Nothing, however, in her character suggests she would be so technical. Yes, she could be talking about the physical marks left by SA. She could be talking about how the wounds probably weakened Langmar sufficiently for SA to finish her off. She could be lumping physical and nonphysical injuries together under ‘wounds’. She could be using the term as a shorthand for “she was probably alive when Keiran pulled her into the lake, but she’d sustained enough injury that she didn’t survive the swim.”

Heck, if you want to be technical, she says that Langmar “I think she may have succumbed to Spectral Agony” – that whole sentence is speculation on Koro’s part. For all we know, Koro actually found no solid evidence of SA on Langmar, she’s just making a guess on a way that Langmar could have been alive on entering the water but then died.

If one was really inclined to be technical, one could also point out that earlier in the conversation it was said that the body was “believed” to be Langmar’s. They aren’t sure. That implies that, whether through damage or deterioration, the corpse could not be identified with 100% certainty (although presumably that was cleared up on Keiran’s return) – which means that it’s also possible that the body had sufficiently deteriorated that, short of broken bones and the like, there really wasn’t any forensic work to be done apart from magical probing.

Really, there are lots of ways that conversation can be interpreted – and only one of them points to “I found physical wounds inflicted by Spectral Agony”. We really have NFI which interpretation is correct..

Konig Des Todes.2086:

You make it sound like you need to be able to use a kind of magic to identify it. You don’t. That’s why spellcasters are so distinctive in their profession – any Tom, kitten, and Harry can tell a necromancer’s magic from a mesmer’s. Spectral Agony is, as far as we know, not part of the four schools (as it not only predates the schools, but the mursaat have spent lifetimes in the Mists away from the bloodstones).

This one I’m going to jump on:

Yes, magical professions can be identified… with sufficient observation. Some forms of magic are signatures of their professions (mesmer illusions and necromancer minions being the most obvious examples.. assuming the mesmer doesn’t decide to make illusions of necrominions just to hide the issue)., and given enough observation, an educated person can probably identify a spellcaster’s profession based on what forms of magic they do and don’t use even if they don’t use one of those signature spells.

But can any Tom, kitten or Harry recognise a spellcaster’s profession from observing any spell they cast, regardless of what it is? Well, I’d say that the history of arguments I’ve had with you and Thal over whether an NPC is a member of a particular profession, even when that NPC uses a skill that is functionally and visually identical to a known skill of that profession, says otherwise. When the only real identifying mark of a spell is “it causes intense pain to the victim and silences their scream” (the boy was stopped before giving any further testimony), I think it’s quite reasonable that a layman might not be able to instantly pick which profession it belongs to.

A spellcaster probably would, at least if it’s a member of their own profession – because they identify the specific spell or, as implied in Marjory’s Story, that spellcasters can sense when another spellcaster is of the same profession at least. This is probably why spellcasters are that much more defined – because there are people who can point at another primary spellcaster and say “Yep, she’s a mesmer like me, all right!” – while presumably the magic used by, say, thieves and rangers cannot be so sensed. However, just because someone can identify a spellcasting profession doesn’t mean everyone can. A decade ago, I could read resistor codes at a glance, and could probably make an educated guess now if I saw one, but that doesn’t mean I could hand a resistor to any random kid on the street and expect them to know what it even is, let alone what the coloured stripes mean.

Pavees.7281

Or you can do me a favor and not presume to talk down to me when i wasn’t disrespecting you or anyone else. Just because i feel strongly over a discussion gives you no right to tell people what to do or just assume how they feel or anything.

Also you don’t need to feel angry to feel strongly bout something. To think that way is to show your ignorance. I seldomly get upset or anything and if i’m gonna discuss something me rolling over when someone challenges my viewpoint doesn’t make for a good discussion.

My comment was direct at the multiple times you personally attack Konig in the thread. His statement he is making are just opposite of yours and bringing more information to the table. The actual discussion is good except the times you direct comments to him in a very disrespectful manner. That is the part I am saying calm down on.

Not once did I talk down to you. But you continue your tone with me and I can talk down to you if you would like. And I do have a right to tell someone to calm down when they direct attacks at someone on these forums. It does better to have someone calm down then it is to report them. We all here have strong opinions about different aspects of the lore, and we do get in heated discussion, but that never gives you the right to make a personal statement against someone like you were.