Guild Wars 2

Who do you think is our most useful ally and deadly enemy? Try to use these 4 categories:

Observed ally: (already in the game or book)
Guessed ally: (your guess based on lore)
Observed Enemy: (already in the game or book)
Guessed Enemy: (your guess based on lore)

Here are mine.

Observed ally: Anise. She might not be the most powerful, but she is surely very intelligent. She is much more useful than Logan, who is an emo-queen-lover that rush into things.

Guessed ally: Livia. She is a few hundred years old and wields the Scepter of Orr. Nuff said.

Observed Enemy: Primordus. He can summon minions without the need of undead or corrupting other races. That means he is so powerful that he doesn’t need to sweet talk anyone. He just overpower you and then suck out your magic. His minions alone fought the whole Dwarven race (read again, whole race, in their ultimate stone form) to a stand still. He himself hasn’t even awake yet (no world damage).

Guessed Enemy: Isgarren’s boss. A lore built up since GW1, hidden in Wizard’s Tower for over 300 years (could be thousands). Whoever that guy is he must be pretty much a god by now. When he shows himself, he will make the Elder Dragons look like child’s play.

observed ally: the seer, the ability to defend against spectal agony, and create the bloodstones these folks are not to be trifled with.

guessed ally: Spirits of the wild, will probably help in the fight against Jormag.

observed enemy: Mursaat

guessed enemy: Leviathans, we haven’t even seen any of these things being displaced by DSD minions yet. Not to mention the damage an undead one was able to do in SoS book.

Observed Ally: Forgotten. They helped the Six Gods against Abaddon and guarded his prison afterwards (even aided Kormir/Order of Whispers/us in cleaning up the mess afterwards), found a way to reverse the mental effects of Elder Dragon corruption, effectively saved the kitten s of all other ancient races (seer, jotun, dwarf), and guarded Ascension so that no wanna-bes like Turai would screw up the Flameseeker Prophecies. Lets not forget that they held the charr at bay for who-knows-how-long when they were led by the Khan-Ur (aka their strongest and most unified time outside being subjugated by the Flame Legion), and supposedly kept the other races in balance.

Guessed Ally: Joko. I like to view him as an anti-villain. Though he does bad things, he’s a “lesser evil” to all other evils out there, and being impossible to kill with an army of undead under his palm, he can be useful as an ally but someone you don’t want as an enemy.

Observed Enemy: Titans. Able to wipe the floor out with the only other truly threatening non-Elder Dragon enemy, the mursaat, and at the same time a single Titan can act as a small unit (due to the breakdown effect), and they’re supposedly very strong lore-wise.

Guessed Enemy: Mordremoth. If the Wychmire Swamp meta and the Shadow of the Dragon are indeed tied to him, that makes him the one and only Elder Dragon capable of corrupting sylvari, meaning he’s the one and only Elder Dragon capable of corrupting all playable races.

I don’t know much about lore.

Observed Ally: Yet to be decided

Guessed Ally: Tengu

Observed Enemy: Yet to be decided.

Guessed Enemy: The deep sea dragon because of its said ability to create minions out of water and there’s plenty of area covered with water.

Observed Ally: Dwarves

• The Dwarves followed the Tome of Rubicon prophecies and helped combat The Great Destroyer (Champion of Primordus). They sacrificed their overall well being for the greater good.
• They aided Ascalonian Heroes in 1072 AE which eventually led to stopping the Lich and Titans from destroying Tyria.
• Their crafts are the backbone of the Modern GW2 crafts of today. (Forging, armorsmithing, etc.)
• Odgen Stonehealer has been a vital resource to the Durman Priory which eventually helped defeat Zhaitan.

Guessed Ally: Largos

• Though mysterious and largely unknown to most races, the Largos appears to be very knowledgeable to how Tyria is being tranformed by the Elder Dragons. They have first hand experience of the Deep Sea Dragon (DsD or “Bubbles”). With the intelligence of this race being apparent, I expect a larger role in aiding against the Elder Dragons in the future.

Observed Enemy Zhaitan

• When the races where bickering amongst themselves over racial/religous beliefs, Zhaitan was wreaking havoc on everything and anything. Creating an undead army that no other race had seen before, and only heard about in old dusty lore books. This is the only enemy that I know of who unintentionally brought many races together into unity.

Guessed Enemy: Primordus

• I chose this enemy because the other dragons have been conquering around where they lay. Only certain races have been effected by other dragons. Primordus however, is slowly conquering the dephs which is apparent because Destroyers are appearing all over the world. His corruption is being underminded which I believe to be a huge downfault to the races of Tyria. This dragon is litterally taking Tyria by the ground up.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Guessed Ally: Joko. I like to view him as an anti-villain. Though he does bad things, he’s a “lesser evil” to all other evils out there, and being impossible to kill with an army of undead under his palm, he can be useful as an ally but someone you don’t want as an enemy.

Back off! He’s my pick! <3

Observed Ally: The Order of Whispers. They are the masters of secret lore and their spy tech is atleast on the same level, probably better than the Shining Blade’s. I’m pretty sure they have their own version of a Helicarrier and an Agent Coulson to spare.

Observed Enemy: Inquest. They blow a lot of stuff up, sometimes on accident, sometimes on purpose. Give those crazy bunny-eared terrorists the complete control over dragon magic and doomsday will be upon us.

Guessed Enemy: Gwen. Just because.

Observed Ally: My original answer before actually thinking about it would have been Glint. But, I will have to say the Forgotten because without them Glint wouldn’t have been an ally at all. Plus, there’s all the other things they’ve done already touched on by Konig.

Guessed Ally: Largos. Partly chosen just because I would really like to see and learn more about them. But as mentioned already, they have experience with Bubbles, they’re intelligent and aware (Sayid even knew how to read Orrian script). Plus, they’re sneaky and crafty buggers. Who look really cool >.>

Observed Enemy: Mursaat. You had to have True Sight to see them unless they wanted to be seen. No one knows really where they came from before Saul discovered them. You had to have specially infused armor to withstand Spectral Agony. They manipulated a good portion of a human kingdom, hid themselves from the last rise of the Elder Dragons, nearly wiped out the Seers, and kept the Door of Komalie closed until the PCs came along. Plus, there’s still the possibility (however small) that they’ll be making an appearance yet.

Guessed Enemy: Put in another vote for Primordus. He’s underground – somewhere. No one knows where he is, where he might pop up, and his minions can crop up anywhere. There’s no real scope of how big his forces are and he’s got the Dwarves in a rough position. He is, at least in my opinion, the most unpredictable of the known dragons.

(A side note- Maybe I’m just a giant Lore nerd, but I think this thread is awesome. Really enjoying seeing what folks see as their ally/enemy.)

Observed Ally: Caithe…she may have a sketchy past, but seems to be on our side.

Guessed Ally: Edair and Livia…Livia is the leader of the Shining blade who’s soul pourpose was to protect the Krytan line (which included Edair, whom we never saw reach his coronation, but if still living would be about 70 – and the rightful ruler of Kryta)…there is an unnaccounted for gap between Edair and Jennah….and then we start recieving mysterious messages from “-E” (…crackpot theory…maybe?). I feel like they are holed up somewhere until the rest of the plot unfolds.

Observed Enemy: Kralkatoric. Killed Glint for betraying him and generally wreaking havoc on Tyria…not to mention Snaff’s death.

Guessed Enemy: Anise and Queen Jennah…there is something quite fishy about these two. The way Jennah gave Caudecus a simple wrist slap, the animosity between Anise and Logan during the Queen’s Jubilee opening scene…the fact that Anise and Jennah seemed more than willing to let Lord Farren fall to his death after trying to save an apparition of Jennah…and, Jennah doesn’t own any shoes. I don’t trust anyone who doesn’t wear shoes O_o

BuddhaKeks.4857:

Guessed Enemy: Gwen. Just because.

I can see it now.

A great portal from the Mists opens up upon the people of the Black Citadel. Swirling blue and white and purple and black, a little human girl comes out. Wearing a blue dress with a red emblem on the chest, short black hair and a Red Iris Flower tucked behind her ear, she looks up at the charr.

Gwen: “Mommy told me not to play with fire. But mommy’s dead!”

Instantaneous Combustion on all the charr

Konig Des Todes.2086:

BuddhaKeks.4857:

Guessed Enemy: Gwen. Just because.

I can see it now.

A great portal from the Mists opens up upon the people of the Black Citadel. Swirling blue and white and purple and black, a little human girl comes out. Wearing a blue dress with a red emblem on the chest, short black hair and a Red Iris Flower tucked behind her ear, she looks up at the charr.

Gwen: “Mommy told me not to play with fire. But mommy’s dead!”

Instantaneous Combustion on all the charr

Good Game.

That’s how ArenaNet will wipe out charr from Ascalon, removing their playability.

Because playing charr isn’t popular. Just like TA’s F/U path (despite it being the best path with most unique mechanics compared to the other two; it was just the boss fight that was terrible – just like how with charr it’s only, mainly, the armor clipping which ArenaNet explicitly stated they won’t fix because the charr aren’t popular).

Kitten, I hope Joko isn’t an ally. I’m sick and tired of leaving that “lesser evil” alone in order to kill a greater one just so he can wreak more havoc, enslave more people groups, etc…

Just because he was un-killable 250 years ago doesn’t mean he is now. I’ve always wondered what he would look like after an asura megalaser blasted his kitten.

Observed ally: Order of Whispers
They have agents everywhere, both overt and covert. They keep tabs on essentially everything ever, and are the only ones still capable of communicating with Elona. If they manage to imprison Palawa Joko again, they could basically bring in a whole continent worth of backup.

Guessed ally: Livia
She’s had the Scepter of Orr (if only for a time). Assuming she didn’t destroy it like we did with the Staff of the Mists, she would know where it currently is. Once you put that in play, you can basically cheat to win.

Observed Enemy: The Sylvari. They threaten to ruin the entire game by being Anet’s golden child.

Metagaming aside, the biggest observed enemy would have to be Alternate Reality Tyria, subjugated by the evil asura PC. Said Tyria has everything we have resource-wise, and, if a single person managed to subjugate it with steam creature technology, then odds are they’d already dealt with that really pressing Elder Dragon problem we still have.

Guessed Enemy: The Abaddon and Dhuum duet featuring Menzies and his cavalcade of shadow horrors. Two of them may seem to be down for the count, but you have to remember that Dhuum busts out every once in a while (and if this happens while the glorious mortal heroes of Tyria can’t help the limp-wristed Reapers of Grenth wrangle him back, then we’d be pretty boned. Unlike the PC necromancers, this guy is, in fact, death incarnate. Menzies and Balthazar fight each other into a standstill without our intervention, and we aren’t intervening right now. More importantly, this standstill happens while fairly large portions of the Shadow Army aren’t where the fighting is, so it’s a pretty safe bet that Menzies would eventually mop the floor with Balthazar if he commited his full resources to it. And then there’s that demon-spawning, tentacle-sprouting, ever-plotting, secret-knowing spider god-smashing mac daddy of em all.

Narcemus.1348:

Kitten, I hope Joko isn’t an ally. I’m sick and tired of leaving that “lesser evil” alone in order to kill a greater one just so he can wreak more havoc, enslave more people groups, etc…

Just because he was un-killable 250 years ago doesn’t mean he is now. I’ve always wondered what he would look like after an asura megalaser blasted his kitten.

How can one hate a fictional character so much?

/shakes his head in disbelief

Now back to Gwen, the worst thing ever. I hate her so much!

Why the Gwen hate, I didn’t play EotN so maybe that has something to do with it?

As far as I can tell, it comes down to three things. First, people don’t like the angsty character (Gwen from EotN on). Second, people don’t like the sappy romantic (Kieran, but Gwen is held guilty by association for caving in the end, making a sappy romance). Third, people don’t like when the angsty one in a sappy romance is remembered as a hero while their own contributions are all but forgotten (though in all fairness our characters never founded a city). I don’t necessarily feel the antagonism myself, but I can see where it is coming from.

I personally loved Gwen’s character. I was sad when that little child disappeared and I was happy when she re-appeared. I was a little annoyed by her angstiness, but at the same time I understood where her rage came from, and I was glad to speak for her at her wedding.

As for Joko, he is and always will be a bad guy, and thanks to ArenaNet our characters just looked at him and said, “Well now you’re free, have fun conquering Elona!” and walked off back to Tyria… My character would have never made that choice, (in fact one of them died trying to stop him) but ArenaNet wouldn’t let me ever kill him… Something I still hold against them…

Our characters ignore all lingering threats after the big bad is dead.

Prophecies? We let the charr continue ransaking Ascalon. We ignored the leftover undead. We didn’t bother picking up the Scepter of Orrf or safekeeping (to be fair though, the volcano was erupting…). We basically wiped out the Forgotten, but didn’t ensure the mursaat and White Mantle were gone for good.

We did, to our credit, clear out the titans and the Stone Summit (our actions leading to Deldrimor forcing them into exile in the Far Shiverpeaks), but that was only because we were told to do so (like with Galrath and everything else!).

In Factions, we let the Kurzicks and Luxons return to war, and didn’t bother the help of cleaning up the Afflicted or Shiro’ken, and who cares about those centuries-old pirates and street gangs anyways?

In Nightfall, aside from Joko, we didn’t really bother help cleaning up the demons left in the world (we just helped Kormir clean up Abaddon’s mess again). Nor did we really help out with Istani’s broken navy, Kourna’s shattered government. After Abaddon’s death, we just went and watched a play about our exploits.

In Eye of the North, we once more let the charr continue their war (even ifwe did take out some shamans and aided in the beginning of a civil war), and let the dwarves do their thing hunting the destroyers into oblivion – imagine what would have happened if we godslayers went and hunted them down too? They’d have been wiped out and the dwarves return to the surface until Primordus rose (possibly). Oh, and we once more ignored the White Mantle conflict.

Go Team Us!

Most Deadly Villain: GW1 heroes by negligence .

Observed Ally: Joko, he was in the first game it’s valid. He’s an ancient lich with centuries of experience. He conquered Vabbi twice and brought the rest of Elona to it’s knees. Commands a vast undead/living army, and most importantly to me there is no known means to permanently kill him.

Guessed Ally: The Spirits of the Wild. Of all the deities the spirits seem to be the ones most likely to take part in current events. Plus the exact powers of the spirits are unknown so they could have an ace up their metaphorical sleeve we don’t know about.

Observed Enemy: Inquest. Money, power, intelligence, influence the inquest have it all. They got the brilliance of the asura focused on their studies without holdups of morality, and they pretty much have the arcane council in their pocket. Also while the game paints them pretty black, I would think that the Inquest are much more subtle and inhabit a vast grey area of scientific ethics

Guessed Enemy: Bubbles. There is next to no knowledge about this guy, other than he lives in the deepest parts of the Unending Ocean. I’m also uncertain about the naval prowess of the races. Do they have the ability to fight a being who controls/corrupts water at sea? That would be the biggest problem in fighting Bubbles all fights would be on his home turf.

Guessed Enemy: Gwen. Just because.

Gwen should hear about the peace with the beasts, and come back from the Underworld, tearing apart cities with rage. Really, I’m so disappointed – her campaign against the beasts went for nothing. “All iris flowers are dead. Soon, the charr will follow!” …and they didn’t.
(Don’t mind me, I cry when I see the ruins of Northern Wall etc.) xD
Btw. Gwen wouldn’t be enemy! I would stand with her, to bane the wild beasts from her homeland!
———————————————————————————
Observed ally: Dwarves – Primordus was the first to awaken, and yet we still see not many of his minions, indicating that dwarves still fight and make the Tyria less troubled. (Except for Tengu, as they have big problem with destroyers)
Guessed ally: Jennah (or her sibling) – Doric’s bloodline allows to scale bloodstones together and a) give back Jotuns their magic and get a powerful ally, b) use their power against elder dragons, c) paying back for The Searing, and making 10x powerful one against the beasts ;>
Observed enemy: Elder Dragons
Guessed enemy:
1) Lazarus the Dire – he had 250 years to renew his race, possibly finding some survivors on the Isles of Janthir – now he can lead a campaign against humans and asuras (and their allies)
2) Palawa Joko – immortal lich with an army of hundred of thousands, spreaded across whole continent just south of crystal desert. yes plz

Sublimatio.6981:

Guessed Enemy: Gwen. Just because.

Gwen should hear about the peace with the beasts, and come back from the Underworld, tearing apart cities with rage. Really, I’m so disappointed – her campaign against the beasts went for nothing. “All iris flowers are dead. Soon, the charr will follow!” …and they didn’t.
(Don’t mind me, I cry when I see the ruins of Northern Wall etc.) xD
Btw. Gwen wouldn’t be enemy! I would stand with her, to bane the wild beasts from her homeland!

Don’t mind me, being the first to put a bullet through Gwen’s unholy zombie head.

“BuddhaKeks, you killed the zombie Gwen!” – “She was a zombie?”

BuddhaKeks.4857:

Sublimatio.6981:

Guessed Enemy: Gwen. Just because.

Gwen should hear about the peace with the beasts, and come back from the Underworld, tearing apart cities with rage. Really, I’m so disappointed – her campaign against the beasts went for nothing. “All iris flowers are dead. Soon, the charr will follow!” …and they didn’t.
(Don’t mind me, I cry when I see the ruins of Northern Wall etc.) xD
Btw. Gwen wouldn’t be enemy! I would stand with her, to bane the wild beasts from her homeland!

Don’t mind me, being the first to put a bullet through Gwen’s unholy zombie head.

“BuddhaKeks, you killed the zombie Gwen!” – “She was a zombie?”

Don’t you dare even try! My mesmer will make you think you’re shooting Gwen when you’re actually pointing the gun against your own head!
And I think Captain Logan Thackeray of the Seraph won’t hesitate to help me. Maybe he’ll even bring a few seraph soldiers with him. You know, this is about his ancestor.

Hmm this is interesting, lots of friends and foes to consider.

Observed Ally: Durmand Priory/Order of Whispers. I am putting these two together as they overlap in a lot of areas and between the two they have the knowledge to undo Tyria’s most powerful enemies. The Order of Whispers was instrumental in stopping Abbadon and the Priory currently holds a potential trump card vs Jormag in the Sanguinary Blade.

Guessed Ally: The Spirits of the Wild. They are all essentially demigods capable of influencing entire species of animals and they are more than happy to take an active role in guiding and blessing the norn. Even in GW1 the human gods never interacted with their worshipers as directly as the Spirits do.

Observed enemy: Primordous, personally I find destroyers to still be the most dangerous of dragon minions across the board. Combine that with the fact that destroyers can conceivably appear anywhere at any time and Primordous becomes very very scary.

Guessed enemy: Mordremoth, if half of what has been theorized about him is accurate. He’s not only unique in his ability to corrupt sylvari but also in that his corruption can take an entirely mental form. The implications of dragon minions taking the form of mind controlled sleeper agents instead of deformed abominations is alarming to say the least.

@Samuli.7852
Charr’s searing activate, we still have the cauldron in Iron Marches. A little sad to see Gwen go but if it will stop the “whining plague” (Logan) sacrifices must be made, sorry zombie Gwen. Time to return that area of Ascalon to a wasteland…Later the children will ask “was it worth it, was the destruction of one man worth the destruction caused to this land that will remain for generations”, and their parents will answer “yes my child its only a shame we couldn’t get that Trahearne fellow too”.

That Searing Cauldron barely has enough juice to sear a village, good luck getting it to sear a country…

doesn’t need to be a country just the area where logan is.

They could just concentrate the area of effect to the 10ft radius around Logan. In that case it would prolly have a good chance of incinerating him, or at least crushing him underneith a searing crystal. Although you have to wonder if he wouldn’t just respawn 10 mins later :P

Observed Ally: Skritt. They breed like, well, rats, and given large enough numbers, they use their group intelligence extremely efficiently (I’d much rather have a hundred skritt than a hundred asura).

Guessed Ally: Zephyrites. Glint’s insight passed on to them, her remains and the ability to use the power within them, quite likely knowledge about her offspring as well. If they choose to take an active role in the world and partake in the fight against the elder dragons, they could be invaluable allies.

Observed Enemy: Can’t think of anything more factually threatening than Primordus.

Guessed Enemy: Fleshreavers. Sure, we’ve fought some, perhaps threatening but nothing out of ordinary, eh? But those have been scattered and probably young and weak fleshreavers. They seem to originate from the mists, and my theory is that they are demons (not to be confused with the subsets of demons specific to Realm of Torment), as are dryders and Kanaxai. Now, imagine facing an ancient fleshreaver lord, with a body built of countless would-be heroes who tried stopping it.

Note, I’m using the Nightfall manuscripts definition of demon, “Demons are more than creatures of the Mists—they are made from the Mists themselves, bits of etheric matter that have gained malignant sentience and power”.

Tuomir.1830:

Observed Ally: Skritt. They breed like, well, rats, and given large enough numbers, they use their group intelligence extremely efficiently (I’d much rather have a hundred skritt than a hundred asura).

Guessed Ally: Zephyrites. Glint’s insight passed on to them, her remains and the ability to use the power within them, quite likely knowledge about her offspring as well. If they choose to take an active role in the world and partake in the fight against the elder dragons, they could be invaluable allies.

Observed Enemy: Can’t think of anything more factually threatening than Primordus.

Guessed Enemy: Fleshreavers. Sure, we’ve fought some, perhaps threatening but nothing out of ordinary, eh? But those have been scattered and probably young and weak fleshreavers. They seem to originate from the mists, and my theory is that they are demons (not to be confused with the subsets of demons specific to Realm of Torment), as are dryders and Kanaxai. Now, imagine facing an ancient fleshreaver lord, with a body built of countless would-be heroes who tried stopping it.

Note, I’m using the Nightfall manuscripts definition of demon, “Demons are more than creatures of the Mists—they are made from the Mists themselves, bits of etheric matter that have gained malignant sentience and power”.

Very interesting ally/enemies you have, especially choosing 100 skritt of 100 asura.

but just to clarify on the Fleshreavers. They actually were bred from the crazy char Rragar Maneater. He was breeding those things 250 years ago

on the 100 skritt vs 100 asura bit, i agree with Tuomir. 100 skritt may or may not be smarter than any individual asura (and most likely less than 100 of them together) but they are far more likely to put that brainpower to use on a common goal and path to it, while the asura will most likely let their egos get the better of them

Tuomir.1830:

Guessed Enemy: Fleshreavers. Sure, we’ve fought some, perhaps threatening but nothing out of ordinary, eh? But those have been scattered and probably young and weak fleshreavers. They seem to originate from the mists, and my theory is that they are demons (not to be confused with the subsets of demons specific to Realm of Torment), as are dryders and Kanaxai. Now, imagine facing an ancient fleshreaver lord, with a body built of countless would-be heroes who tried stopping it.

That’s an interesting thing to note. We actually fight an ancient fleshreaver in Lornar’s Pass. It is never killed…

As to them being demons – Godslost Swamp’s fleshreavers come from the Underworld it seems, and there’s an event (chain) in Dredgehaunt Cliffs where there’s a portal activated that summons imps and a fleshreaver.

I have been tempted to view fleshreavers as an “undeath”-alligned imp, which are elemental demons of sorts (e.g., fleshreavers are to Zhaitan as the other imps are to other Elder Dragons).

Antara.3189:

but just to clarify on the Fleshreavers. They actually were bred from the crazy char Rragar Maneater. He was breeding those things 250 years ago

While they were bred by him, he did not make them.

They date back very far. How far is unknown though. But there is an ancient Deldrimor ruin in Lornar’s Pass (the draconic gate or w/e it’s called) which has an ancient imprisoned Fleshreaver within it (the one mentioned above).

The Dracon Steles.

I must disagree with the imp bit though. All other imps show up in places where their “element” is strong, not unlike elementals (for shadow imps, that seems to be particularly creepy/foreboding abodes). Fleshreavers, on the whole, don’t seem to show up in places particularly linked to flesh/undeath, and they certainly don’t function in the same manner- whereas imps are essentially malevolent elementals, and seem to feed on/be composed of magic, fleshreavers are creatures that simply bypass the digestive process. They have a reproductive system, unlike demons and presumably imps, they grow naturally, and they show no signs of magical powers in GW2.

If I were to go out on a limb, I’d say the Underworld connection is due not to a relationship to imps but to abominations – similarly undead-esque creatures that nonetheless do not seem to have ever been alive. The Underworld versions are even said to be an amalgamation of flesh from other creatures.

You rise a good point about reproductive systems, but, demons are known to be bred from other particular individuals of their kind, Dreadspawn Maw to name the known example. Demons can reproduce, so it would stand to reason that being capable of reproducing by themselves does not prove that fleshreavers couldn’t be demons.

No, the Dreadspawn Maw spawns demons. There’s a difference. It is more like a demon-creating factory than something with a life cycle (sort of like how the Destroyer Queen doesn’t truly birth destroyers, but simply spawns them). What is said about fleshreavers is that they have parents, plural, which implies a two-sex reproductive schema, and that the parents, and possibly the whole community, care for their young, which is something that is unknown in beings that spawn offspring. Most telling of all, they can reproduce outside of the Mists- demons, being of their nature formed of the Mists, should not be capable of such.

The key is that the Stygians were born from the Dreadspawn Maw, not spontaneously spawning from the mists. It’s a different manner of reproduction from two-sex reproductive schema, but it’s also different from simply spawning from the mists. We have very limited confirmed examples of demons, most originating from the Realm of Torment, so we can’t say for sure that rules that apply to those examples apply to demons from elsewhere in the mists, either. How ants reproduce is quite different from how horses reproduce, after all.

Furthermore, Tyria is not outside of the mists – it’s within them. While not as present as in some other realms, it still is present in a way, so it isn’t unthinkable for fleshreavers (or, indeed, any creatures) to draw to it’s power when conceiving offspring.

We have seen that the grawl will worship anything that they think is powerful, as such many of the areas fleashreavers spawn seem to be from grawl rituals. (ex. Example 1 there are about 8-12 grawl doing some form of worship when you enter the cave, the fleshreaver only spawns when you kill the rabbit which is placed on a bunch of pelts seemingly like a sacrifice, Example 2 This fleshreaver can fully heal itself by killing one of the grawl shamans. in these to cases it seems that fleshreavers are somehow related to sacrifice. but there are also some that are found out in the open world north western brisban, queensdale (when reading the book), the caves north of the priory. The only one that I could see them as being related to imps is Possibility because of the shadow imps coming from the portal followed by the fleshreaver. All but the first two examples don’t seem to involve sacrifice or the grawl though.

Observed Ally: Either Glint, or the Pale Tree.
Guessed Ally: Perhaps the Largos. I doubt the Zephyrites will take an active, military role. Another possibility is “Your Herald”.

Observed Enemy: Kralkatorrik.
Guessed Enemy: Either Dhuum, or Lazarus the Dire. I count these as “guessed” simply because we don’t know how active these figures are 250 years on from the last known encounter.

LEAST useful ally ever: The Great Zehtuka!
LEAST dangerous foe now: As of GW2, I’m tempted to say the White Mantle. I get the impression that they’ve been reduced to a fairly insignificant threat, still clinging to their old hierarchy.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

They date back very far. How far is unknown though. But there is an ancient Deldrimor ruin in Lornar’s Pass (the draconic gate or w/e it’s called) which has an ancient imprisoned Fleshreaver within it (the one mentioned above).

In that event, the creature is not called a “Fleshreaver” IIRC; isn’t it just referred to as an “Ancient Creature”? It shares the model, but not the term.

ANet reuse models quite frequently. Ritualist Spirits were not Banshees, for example, and I never considered Mragga to be one, either.

Mind you, now that I’ve re-read it, the description of Rragar’s Menagerie does seem to support your conclusion that the creatures were not his creations; “Rragar had taken advantage of this… easily manipulated evolution”.

As far as fleshreavers go… there are a few trends there. First, you have the Underworld portals (both fleshreavers in Queensdale, and the one in Wayfarer’s, and possibly Dredgehaunt); second, you have worship by grawl (Wayfarer’s, Timberline, and likely Lornar’s); third, they are usually in caves (six out of the ten places where they are found, as well as Rragar’s Menagerie and Heart of the Shiverpeaks in GW1); and a rough geographical distribution centered on the Shiverpeaks (six out of ten, with two of the exceptions involving portals; this is also where they were found in GW1).

Bottom line, there seem to be two sources of fleshreavers: those from the Shiverpeaks, and those from the Underworld. Rather one came from the other, or both arose independently, is currently unknown. However, no Underworld fleshreavers were seen in GW1 (and we actually had access to the Underworld then) suggesting that that community is younger.

@Neilos: It itself is not directly called a fleshreaver, but the waves of its minions are.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

@Neilos: It itself is not directly called a fleshreaver, but the waves of its minions are.

Oop, you’re right! I’d forgotten that.

Aaron, there is one major issue in your posts.

Imps are repeatedly and outright called demons. They come from the Mists, to boot. Capable of making small portals I think, but main point is that while they are attuned to elements, they are not like elementals that are made from elements. Furthermore, based off the Lornar’s Pass heart, they become attuned to the element when influenced by it – like titans – so their appearance/attunement is based on the elemental magic they consume.

I know fleshreavers function differently from what we know..n but if you think on it, both grow by taking their “element” and magic, both come from the Mists to varying degrees, both are considered demons. The only questions are whether Imps procreate or not (which you yourself admit to mere guessing) and whether or not fleshreavers eat magic.

Btw, there are the fleshreavers in Brisban and they have neither portal nor tunnel. For what that may mean.

All I was stating is that Rragar took a beast that had no major impact in the world, and devoted his life in making them a reckoning force against humanity. I don’t think Fleshreavers would have been as prevalent in GW2 if not for him.

Imps also A.) all look very much alike, B.) have glowing hands, chests, and eyes, and C.) all have the same attacks, with differing elemental alignments. None of those things match with fleshreavers- even the basic morphology is off when you compare to some of the variations in GW1.

I certainly am only guessing when it comes to imp reproduction (though that is the least of my arguments for the dissimilarities between them and fleshreavers), but it isn’t unsubstantiated. The heart in Lornar’s suggests that they are formed- that imp essence+elemental energy=imp. As you can take ice imp essence and make a fire imp with it, genetics doesn’t seem to come into play. There was something else about it, to… I’ll have to go check.

Both the Brisban and Kessex fleshreavers are anomalies, as is the aforementioned Ancient Creature. As the Brisban colony is right on the edge of the explored map, I suspect that there might be a third group in the Wastes, but there’s really no telling.

EDIT: Never mind. I was misremembering something about the brimstone imp.

As for Rragar’s influence, I don’t think we’ve seen it yet. Any such influence would naturally be in the environs of the Blood Legion homelands, which we have not even gotten close to. Fleshreavers really aren’t ‘prevalent’- there are a grand total of ten places you can find them in game, seven of which take the form of events or mini-events. They’re one of the scarcest enemy types in GW2.

A lot of GW1 and GW2 models are vastly different. Even imps. I doubt you can use GW1 fleshreaver models to argue differences with GW2 models.

@Antara: Doubtful. The location is far off and the Fleshreavers were mainly underground in GW1 – making them one of the subterranean races pushed up by Primordus.

Honestly, their dealings with the Mists is an interesting concept to consider, as it’s remeninscent of wind riders and dryders that are both “native” to Tyria and the Mists (more than just the Underworld) but have no known connection between the two nativities.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/File:Fleshreaver_Hound.jpg

I feel justified.

Regardless of what facts you throw at me I will always call Rragar their Shephard!

But really I never looked into them, other than the connection to rragar.

Aaron… did you even read my post?

A LOT of GW1 models are greatly changed by GW2. All skelk, for example. All imps, for example. And drakes.

Using GW1 models and comparing them to GW2 models is not a sound argument, at all.

Random observation on the fleshreavers in Brisban Wildlands. The area they appear in also has several naturally spawning flesh wurms and the area itself is rather close to Majety’s Rest from GW1. Just a hunch but I bet that group is linked to Rotscale somehow.