Guild Wars 2

There are five elder races; jotun, mursaat, seer, dwarves, and the forgotten.

All five races banded together to defeat the Elder Dragons. One race betrayed them, the Mursaat. This betrayal consisted of them hiding from the other races. It is possible that they went underground to hide from the other races and this is when they learned how to hide themselves from the dragons. After 10,000 years underground their body size shrank due to the cramp spaces and limitations on food. Also all of the time caused them to forget their origins.

After the dragons went back to sleep there was a “Time of the Giants”, when the jotun (and Norn?) were the dominant races. The Jotun were divided into tribes and they began to focus only their own tribes. This isolation caused the civil war that led the Jotun into ruin. Over time the Jotun have become more grotesque due to inbreeding., but the did once appear very humanlike. Who is to say that the Norn was not just a name of one of the Jotun tribes? Maybe one that was not so isolationist.

The forgotten were chosen by the human gods to be the shepherds of the world after the dragon fell back into their slumber. Then humanity arrived and fought them almost to extinction and now they hide becoming forgotten to history. But, maybe the world needs shepherds. This is where the Sylvari come into play. Now we already know that the Sylvari were in some way created by Mordremoth, but not all of them ran off to join the dragon. Maybe these ones who remaind pure are the new shepherds of the world. They follow the teachings of peace as put down by Ventari and they are the ones who lead the Pact.

The dwarves have only removed themselves from the world more recently. They had been on the decline for years though prior to becoming stone. This one is kind of a stretch, mainly because there is not another race that could really replace the dwarves. The only comparisons I can draw on are the crafting abilities of both the Dwarves and the Charr. That is all I really have on that one.

Now the last. The Seers were the ones who created the Bloodstone to hide magic from the dragons and to cause them to go back into hibernation. Sometime after the dragons fell back into their slumber, the Mursaat and the Seers went to war. This war brought the Seers to the brink of extinction and they have never been able to recover. Seeing this gap created by the extintion of the Seers, the gods went off to find a new race to take their place. This is where the humans come in.

Now the gods are magical beings and since the dragons consume magic, they had to retreat to the mists and hide from them. The gods have had very little interaction with the world of Tyria since the event of Eye of the North.

So in summary, the Gods knew the dragons need to be defeated for life to thrive on Tyria. The last time they awoke the five races managed to fight them, but could not do enough to stop them and so they had to go into hiding. They brought together the best races they had available and retreated from the world.

This is just what I came up with after going through the lore. Let me know what you think.

The jotun were most likely never human looking, and have always looked that way. Also inbreeding is not what caused their fall, theory is that it’s when they gave their magic up, and never got it back. There’s a few intelligent npc Jotun who will talk about how they don’t know what befell their race and caused them to fall.

Dwarves are probably still alive fighting primprim, otherwise there would be destroyers everywhere.

The Norn according to some Kodan npcs descend from them and are just Kodan that have lost balance.

As for the god theories. There’s one problem. The human gods brought humans with them to Tyria, they aren’t gods to any other race, just really powerful magical beings. I also doubt if they fully knew 100% about the dragons. Or if they went into hiding for it.

But the exodus also happened before EOTN.
I don’t think the races are really meant to replace each other either, because we have hints that the mursaat are still around, possibly the forgotten are still alive somewhere, and then there’s the Tengu who are evaluating the worth of the other races.

The mursaat hide by phasing into another plan of existence or going into the mist depending on which npc or lore book u go by. I’m will to bet they did this because the dragons can’t enter the mist, on their own at least. If they could they probaly would. The magic in the mist in far greater than what is in world of tyria. It is also possible that they don’t know of the mist but I found it doubtful they wouldn’t at least be able to sense the power through the various portals around

I do believe there is a connection between the races that fought the Dragons last time and the playable races we have right now.

What for me is interesting that there are in game hints of there being six races that fought the last time (Scholar Trueclaw http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Scholar_Trueclaw). It’s been a while since I came across that btw, but I’m still pretty intrigued by it.

Six spheres, Dragons, Gods etc. Six races fighting sounds a real possibility to me. Right now we have only five playable races, but there has been quite a lot of speculation about six playable races. If you look at the conversation of Scholar Trueclaw, he says something like five races that survived to tell the story. Could very well be there’s not going to be a sixth race, cause that would mean killing 1/6 of the players characters during the final event against the Dragons.

Of course there should be a new race stepping up there (Tengu imo). Lots of stuff to speculate about.

Trueclaw says there were five races fighting six Elder Dragons. There’s no indication of a sixth race in Trueclaw’s dialogue. “Five versus six” is races versus dragons.

The Gods did not know there were dragons, they built their city in Orr where Zhaitan were sleeping because they did not know Zhaitan was there. I read this somewhere but i can not remember where it was xD.

The gods knew of the dragons. This was proven in Season 2 by the existence of the “Scroll of the Five True Gods” which names the six Elder Dragons.

However, Randal Greyston in Arah states that they did not know that Zhaitan was beneath Arah/that Zhaitan was the source they pulled magic from when strengthening the Bloodstone.

If you look through Trueclaws dialogue lines, she no where specifically says there where six races fighting the Elder Dragons, you are right there.

But the overall conversation, to me at least, is enough to seriously doubt the generally accepted theory of five races. In fact she no where states there being only five, only that we know of five races (who left their legacy to be known to us, ánd who weren’t somehow politically erased from history, Tome of the Rubicon for instance).

But she outright states – when asked to clarify – what she meant by “five versus six” and she stated five races that survived the Elder Dragons.

vanderwolf.7084:

As for the god theories. There’s one problem. The human gods brought humans with them to Tyria, they aren’t gods to any other race, just really powerful magical beings. I also doubt if they fully knew 100% about the dragons. Or if they went into hiding for it.

The Forgotten were servants of the gods – you could split hairs (or scales?) on whether this truly means that they were gods to the Forgotten, but it’s the simplest explanation.

There are pretty strong indications that the gods are or have been worshipped by other races as well (albeit not always by the same names…) – they’re mostly referred to as the human gods because humans are by far the most visible and numerous worshippers of them, including worshipping the whole (known) pantheon.

(Also, even the other playable races, with the possible exception of the sylvari, acknowledge the power of the gods. They’re still gods to the other races, the other races just don’t regard them as gods for them. It’s a fine distinction, but even a charr won’t argue that Balthazar, for instance, isn’t a god – however, that charr will refuse to bow down to Balthazar (beyond what they would be willing to do for any foreign dignitary) and would be quite happy to have a go at killing Balthazar if he or she felt she had a chance and it was in their Legion’s interest to do so.)

draxynnic.3719:

It’s a fine distinction, but even a charr won’t argue that Balthazar, for instance, isn’t a god – however, that charr will refuse to bow down to Balthazar (beyond what they would be willing to do for any foreign dignitary) and would be quite happy to have a go at killing Balthazar if he or she felt she had a chance and it was in their Legion’s interest to do so.)

Maybe it’s a bit of a quibble, but I do not agree. Also this step in the personal story , where a charr character’s dialogue changes to "I don’t believe in “gods,” but whatever these creatures were, they were powerful. The source must be equally so." They believe that Balthazar and the like exist, but they don’t believe they’re gods or in any way divine, just very powerful. Several asura seem to lean towards that view too- the infamous book by Gadd in the Priory springs easiest to mind.

draxynnic.3719:

The Forgotten were servants of the gods – you could split hairs (or scales?) on whether this truly means that they were gods to the Forgotten, but it’s the simplest explanation.

There are pretty strong indications that the gods are or have been worshipped by other races as well (albeit not always by the same names…) – they’re mostly referred to as the human gods because humans are by far the most visible and numerous worshippers of them, including worshipping the whole (known) pantheon.

(Also, even the other playable races, with the possible exception of the sylvari, acknowledge the power of the gods. They’re still gods to the other races, the other races just don’t regard them as gods for them. It’s a fine distinction, but even a charr won’t argue that Balthazar, for instance, isn’t a god – however, that charr will refuse to bow down to Balthazar (beyond what they would be willing to do for any foreign dignitary) and would be quite happy to have a go at killing Balthazar if he or she felt she had a chance and it was in their Legion’s interest to do so.)

There are asuran NPCs and books in hidden arcana about it. When you question some Asura npcs they say something along the lines of “No I do not believe they were gods, just immensely powerful magical beings”.

The forgotten were servants to them yes, but they did not worship them…It was more of a respect based relationship than a following. They followed Glint far more than they followed the gods themselves.

I think the Norn are kind of indifferent and Charr at this point at least aren’t even 100% confident that those ‘gods’ even existed. (they’re skeptical about everything though)

vanderwolf.7084:

The forgotten were servants to them yes, but they did not worship them…It was more of a respect based relationship than a following. They followed Glint far more than they followed the gods themselves.

The ones in the Crystal Desert, yes, perhaps, all though we do not know their motives. The ones who accepted eternal service as wardens of a place that makes hell look like a vacation? To me, that speaks to a devotion beyond mere respect.

vanderwolf.7084:

The forgotten were servants to them yes, but they did not worship them…It was more of a respect based relationship than a following. They followed Glint far more than they followed the gods themselves.

Yet they are priests to the Six Gods

I don’t think it’s merely respect and not worship. You do not become a priest of a being you would not worship. Nor would you call beings you respect titles like god – let alone “Ancient Ones”/“Ancient Gods”. Nor would they use their name in a blessing if it were mere respect.

It’s cool to see that the forgotten called themselves servants of 6, yet that particular scroll from season 2 is called “Scroll of the five true Gods”…

So, would that mean Abaddon and Co. didn’t have any knowledge about Elder Dragons?
I find it very hard to believe…

Probably not, but is it possible that the forgotten meant 5+1? (gods sans abaddon, plus glint)

…nah, but it was worth a try i guess

Keep in mind that Abaddon’s name and existence were stricken from all records, to the best of the other gods’ rather considerable ability. The scroll (which wasn’t written by the forgotten) is of the Five true gods because the sixth, now ‘false’, god had been removed from it.

Pretty much. The Scroll was probably originally the Scroll of the Six Gods, but when Abaddon was excised from history, the gods probably grabbed every copy of the Scroll they could find and replaced it with a ‘sanitised’ version.

@Aaron: Seems like an inconsistency to me… which I can’t say surprises me. There are other cases where the charr seem to be happy to use the term ‘god’ to apply to entities such as the Six (“Gods, dragons, titans, all the same. All they know is destruction…”) – what’s consistent is that the charr (and asura) do not worship them.

(Similarly, there are asura who use the term ‘god’, but again, do not worship them. For them, the word is simply a label that applies to a certain group of beings.)

vanderwolf.7084:

The jotun were most likely never human looking, and have always looked that way.

While it may be true that they never looked “human”, they haven’t always looked the way that they do currently. According to the Guild Wars 2 Wikipedia page, they have become uglier – how much uglier is in question, but probably did look more human at one point in time.

“According to Durmand Priory scholars, they have become uglier since their civilization’s fall, based on Jotun relics.”

However, it’s unlikely that the Norn and the Jotun were once “one” like the OP states is plausible. The Guild Wars 2 Wikipedia page states that “…before their fall the Jotun and Norn were favored by the Six Human Gods”. This means that at the height of their existence, the Jotun and the Norn were separate races, which means it’s highly unlikely that they were linked, or that the Jotun “became” the Norn.

That bit about the six gods comes from Thrulnn the Lost in Hoelbrak, which is wrong on more than one occasion. Take what he says with a grain of salt.