Guild Wars 2

So ever since GW1 honestly, I’ve been wondering about how Necromancers function in society. Cause like, they work with forces surrounding death and such wouldn’t that cause them to be viewed with suspicion? What kind of like, societal place does a necromancer typically occupy?

Also, their minions, are they actually grafted together from corpses (which I imagine would weird peopel out no?) or are they more like summons that just happen to look that way?

In many situations necromancer are seen presiding over the dead and dealing with spiritual matters. That said, though, Necromancers have been a kind of black sheep in society for a while. I clearly remember a town crier in GW1 that asked me to keep my distance because I grossed him out. THERE was also, in the time of GW1 a society of spell casters that did their best to make sure that different spell casters didn’t cross moral lines, or that they are hunted down should such occur, which happened twice. Once with Oberan the Reviled, and once with Verata. In GW1, minions were patched together from the bodies of the deal, and thanks to the book Ghosts of Ascalon, we know that is still possible in GW2’s time frame. But whether the minions we make in GW2 are from bodies or just summoned from the Mists is an unknown.

The book ‘Ghosts of Ascalon’ goes over this with a sylvari necromancer called Killeen. She raises a corpse in front of the party and some of the members find it disrespectful, particularly the human, Dougle.

Even in GW1 some humans found necromancy uncomfortable, because it deals with raising the dead of previous respected humans. Sylvari don’t really have this connection yet (if they ever will do), since they haven’t really formed a cultural idea of respecting the dead.

I believe it was also stated that humans find it particularly uncomfortable in GW2 because of creatures like Zhaitan raising their previous ancestors as slaves.

In GW1 it was shown that they actually grafted minions together from corpses since you needed to use a dead corpse to summon a minion (in most cases). GW2 gameplay seems to ignore this, and in some cases with Marjory, she can just summon bone walls as if from nowhere. Not really sure if there are gameplay or dev comments on the lack of bodies needed in GW2. I’ll leave that to the lore experts.

Here is a previous thread discussing this.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/lore/A-good-necromancer/first#post5343653
I know there have been others but I cannot find them with a quick google.

The short answer is that death energy is just another form of magic, not inherently evil, and necromancers are likely to be no more icky in society’s view than coroners or forensic examiners are in ours. Which doesn’t mean people want minions wandering around in polite settings any more than we’d want a coroner to plop a jarred heart down on the dining table …

Well it obviously depends on the race/culture (humans have a different view on it compared to charr or asura).

Donari is right the magic necromancer use is not inherently evil or good so depends more on the individuals. Also while necromancer can indeed rise the dead, the player character and most necromancer npcs (the good ones) actually dont do it. They use flesh constructs. So yeah rising the dead isnt something people like to see but they are fine with constructs.

Also an other interesting fact normal people are more wary/afraid of mesmer then of necromancer because of the mind manipulating stuff.

Check an article on Verata from the previous game. Not quite about how Necromancers function in social gatherings but rather where you should draw the lines in Death Magic. Probably one of my favourite gw characters off all time.

Astrella.8930:

So ever since GW1 honestly, I’ve been wondering about how Necromancers function in society. Cause like, they work with forces surrounding death and such wouldn’t that cause them to be viewed with suspicion? What kind of like, societal place does a necromancer typically occupy?

Largely depends on the race.

Humans tend to see necromancers as weird – and many human necromancers are – but there are also respected priests and other individuals. Though many humans are put off by the field of magic itself – the whole “working with the dead” concept bothering them. We were told pre-release that with the undead of Orr both in GW1 and again with Zhaitan, humans had a recently-increased superstition of Necromancers = untrustworthy, but this is not widespread as it’s rarely seen in-game.

Charr and asura see necromancy as tools. Creepy, but tools.

Sylvari have absolutely no qualms about it, and see necromancy is merely studying an aspect of living. This makes them most common to have necromancers.

Norn are actually interesting, because the little lore we got actually indicates that they hold the highest disdain for necromancers. IIRC, it’s due to the whole “desecrating bodies” thing – I imagine it’s a bit of an insult to a norn’s legend for their body to be used in experiments or as minions to someone else. I think that’s the real reason why Avarr the Fallen was an outcast – not because he cheats (GW2 lore shows that norn don’t care about such), but because he takes the bodies of fallen norn.

Astrella.8930:

Also, their minions, are they actually grafted together from corpses (which I imagine would weird peopel out no?) or are they more like summons that just happen to look that way?

Lore hints at both.

Racial differences aside (I think everyone else has covered that nicely) there is a general hard rule for good necromancy and bad necromancy.

Good necromancy uses minions like what the player characters use. These are puppets made of dead flesh and bone. So they are basically empty shells, with no soul and an extension of the necromancers will. (Note the gameplay mechanic that you do not control a minion like a ranger controls a pet, the move and hit. That is pretty much it.)

Bad necromancy brings everything back. This is when necromancy tampers with souls and such. Verata, Khilbron and Zhaitan, seem to all use this. In game if you see ghosts, skeletons, Risen and other “non-minion” based undead, these seem to all involve a soul mingled in there.

In GW2 necromancers also seem to lack the need for a body. To me this seems to indicate that the necromancer is actually manifesting their minions, possibly calling on the powers of the Underworld (this is speculation though).

So while the complete creatures like skeletons, zombies and mummies could be considered the result of “bad” necromancy (containing a possibly enslaved soul). While necromancers (the player class) build there minions as tools and weapons lacking a soul, so this is considered “good” necromancy (fleshy meat puppets).

Risen aren’t traditional undead – or really undead at all. They just look undead, so the uneducated-on-the-matter Tyrians (read: nearly everyone) simply call them undead.

Further, we know that full body undeads are possible and not done by “bad necromancy” alone, and do not necessarily need a soul. Intelligent and independent undead seem to require souls to animate them. But that’s not what Verata or other “evil necromancers” did. Only Joko and Khilrbon are known to have enslaved souls in a negative fashion. Note: Khilbron was still treated as a good guy despite our characters seeing him using the souls of fallen enemies to do his bidding.

It’s less of “how they make minions” that define good and bad, but more of “what they do” – Oberan and Verata both killed people for their experiments, and that made them bad people, not them having better, sustained, minions.

they play as assasin or mercenary like the one marjory encounter.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Risen aren’t traditional undead – or really undead at all. They just look undead, so the uneducated-on-the-matter Tyrians (read: nearly everyone) simply call them undead.

Further, we know that full body undeads are possible and not done by “bad necromancy” alone, and do not necessarily need a soul. Intelligent and independent undead seem to require souls to animate them. But that’s not what Verata or other “evil necromancers” did. Only Joko and Khilrbon are known to have enslaved souls in a negative fashion. Note: Khilbron was still treated as a good guy despite our characters seeing him using the souls of fallen enemies to do his bidding.

It’s less of “how they make minions” that define good and bad, but more of “what they do” – Oberan and Verata both killed people for their experiments, and that made them bad people, not them having better, sustained, minions.

It’s also worth noting that binding souls is pretty much what ritualists do, and in Cantha they were more honoured than necromancers. The Shadow Fiend of the current necromancer is also more akin to a spirit than a construct.

I think the distinction is that raising a soulless automaton is okay, and that temporarily binding a spirit is okay, but binding a spirit into a corpse to create sapient, corporeal undead is not. In Khilbron’s case, for instance, until it’s revealed that he’s the Lich Lord the PCs only see him summoning wraiths.

As a couple of other comments:

First, I don’t think there’s much evidence of fear about mesmers, possibly in part because mesmers are better at managing their image. It came up in the posters that appeared across Kryta recently, but that’s more the White Mantle using what they have – if Jennah and Anise were a different profession, there’d probably be a poster up for whatever profession they were.

Second, while this is only a theory, I think necromancers may actually be one of the least disrespected magic types among the charr, due to historically being connected more with the Ash Legion than the Flame. Mesmers might have a similar benefit.