Nightmare Court Instant Brainwashing?

Nightmare Court Instant Brainwashing?

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Posted by: Pipedream.1706

Pipedream.1706

So I think I’ve said this before but there is only a small percentage of the human population that’s susceptible to the sort of brainwashing that changes ones entire allegiance and ideology. Sure on those people it has a 100% success rating but still. Only a very small percentage of the population even under torture are susceptible to completely changing who they are. They might do anything to stop their captures from hurting them they might come to be stockholmed but stockholme for an IDEA rather than a person? Nope. That’s rare.

Sooo…with that in mind, why are the Sylvari so easy to brainwash? It’s pretty clear Sylvari in the Nightmare Court aren’t just doing what the Court says to avoid getting hurt, the Nightmare Court is constantly exposing converts to pain and fear and cruelty. So if you wanted to avoid pain, escaping would be the better option rather than identifying with the aggressor.

It’s also not Stockholme syndrome, because when you talk to people who’ve converted they’re not saying “I love X and they aren’t as bad as you think” they’re saying “Actually these guys were right all along.” They identify with the ideology not their captors.

So my question, is there something metaphysical about the Nightmare court that actively corrupts Sylvari? Or is there a more mundane explanation? Like the nature of Sylvari makes them susceptible to accepting outside influences (this would make sense given their essentially implanted with knowledge before their even born) another explnation that could coexist with the first is that they don’t have enough experience to back up their beliefs, they might have the knowledge of an adult but they haven’t actually earned it and so they don’t yet know how to protect themselves against outside influence. Being essentially children they are easier to brainwash.

What do you guys think?

Nightmare Court Instant Brainwashing?

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Posted by: OriOri.8724

OriOri.8724

The nightmare court kill a lot of sylvari that won’t convert. So the ones that are in it are the ones that willingly converted.

This can range from sylvari who were presented with a good enough argument from the nightmare court to join and change their views, all the way to sylvari who were “destined” to join the nightmare court, as they fundamentally disagree with the Pale Tree. Mind you that LWS2 introduced the notion of Soundless Sylvari, who also reject the teachings of the Pale Tree and those of the Nightmare Court. Which shows that Sylvari do have free choice as to what to believe.

Nightmare Court Instant Brainwashing?

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Posted by: Aaron Ansari.1604

Aaron Ansari.1604

Soundless sylvari were a thing looong before S2. But.

By all indications, the Nightmare is indeed a metaphysical something or other. The thing to remember about sylvari is that they’re not just leafy humans. That goes for their biology, that goes for their outlook, and that goes double for their nature and minds. This is a race that is shaped by enigmatic, poorly understood mystical forces that have direct access to and interaction with their heads. Nightmare isn’t just an ideology, it’s a force, a corrupting one. You’ll hear sylvari talking about how they’re able to sense it, feel it, and those who embrace it are warped and changed in mentality. That’s the point of the Court’s torture- not to brainwash, not to engage some human psychological phenomena, but to break their will so they give in to the power of a Thing that we know precious little about at this point. That doesn’t mean that they’re especially vulnerable to all outside influence, but anything that involves the Dream/Nightmare goes beyond just knowledge and opinions and ideology.

R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.

Nightmare Court Instant Brainwashing?

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Posted by: Rognik.2579

Rognik.2579

To reinforce, yes, there were Soundless long before Aerin in Season 2. There’s a whole village of them in Caledon Forest. They kind of pick a third option, severing from the Dream but not falling into Nightmare. Then again, we saw how that could turn out…

The first couple of members to the Nightmare Court were definitely different than the rest of the sylvari. Caderyn, the first of the “Secondborn”, was clearly upset with his lot in life and was at least instrumental in the Court’s formation. Faolain, while not an original member, was always pretty dark, as we saw in the flashbacks when we played as Caithe. They were probably destined for Nightmare. The other first members were probably similarly dissatisfied, but later members were not necessarily so.

I think one of the reasons sylvari could so easily fall to Nightmare, and this is entering both spoiler territory and tin-foil hat territory, is that they were originally destined to be dragon minions. If the Pale Tree is their mother, then Mordremoth is either their father or grandfather. Whatever protection that got placed over the Tree and her children, it can clearly be penetrated and that might be why torturing other sylvari can make them fall to Nightmare. Of course, as we saw, they weren’t obedient servants when Mordremoth called, but that could mean many other things as well.

Cue Konig contradicting me in 3… 2…

Nightmare Court Instant Brainwashing?

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Posted by: Keyce.8137

Keyce.8137

The first couple of members to the Nightmare Court were definitely different than the rest of the sylvari. Caderyn, the first of the “Secondborn”, was clearly upset with his lot in life and was at least instrumental in the Court’s formation. Faolain, while not an original member, was always pretty dark, as we saw in the flashbacks when we played as Caithe. They were probably destined for Nightmare. The other first members were probably similarly dissatisfied, but later members were not necessarily so.

I think one of the reasons sylvari could so easily fall to Nightmare, and this is entering both spoiler territory and tin-foil hat territory, is that they were originally destined to be dragon minions. If the Pale Tree is their mother, then Mordremoth is either their father or grandfather. Whatever protection that got placed over the Tree and her children, it can clearly be penetrated and that might be why torturing other sylvari can make them fall to Nightmare. Of course, as we saw, they weren’t obedient servants when Mordremoth called, but that could mean many other things as well.

The original bunch of Nightmare Courtiers were just Sylvari dissatisfied with the tenets of the Ventari Tablet, believing that it held their race back from what they could truly become. It wasn’t until Faolain joined some time later that the Court became introduced to the Nightmare.

That said, it seems as though the Nightmare and Mordremoth’s influence are two totally separate things. One of the NPCs in the final fight on Dragon’s Stand against the Mouth of Mordremoth is actually a Nightmare Courtier. Whatever the Nightmare is, it isn’t related to the Elder Dragons.

Nightmare Court Instant Brainwashing?

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Posted by: Mickey Frogeater.1470

Mickey Frogeater.1470

When Faolain was first exposed to the Nightmare it was in Orr. Whatever it was that she corrupted Caderyn’s Nightmare Court with came from there.

The Nightmare withers Thorn Wolves into dry versions of themselves so one would think Death Magic is involved.

It can’t be Zhaitan since he is confirmed dead through the Rotting Destroyers and it can’t be the Vizier’s Magics used in the Cataclysm unless it is a corrupting spell like Shiro’s Affliction.

So…. No idea what the Nightmare can be as all Orr candidates are accounted for.

As for the non-Orr Candidates(AKA Death Magic users strong enough to pull it off) we only know of Dhuum, Palawa Joko, the Envoys, Grenth and Mad King Thorn and only 3 of those would want stereotypical villainy spreading throughout an entire race(Dhuum, Grenth and Thorn).

Since the only candidates possible are unlikely I’m completely stumped as to the source of the Nightmare!

Nightmare Court Instant Brainwashing?

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Posted by: Aaron Ansari.1604

Aaron Ansari.1604

We know she encountered it in Orr, but that doesn’t mean it was native. Combine that with the fact that thorn wolves look just as lush as regular hounds, just with darker coloration, I’m not sold on it being death magic.

If I had to guess… we know that Faolain and Caithe were the first sylvari to travel abroad, we know that the Dream is able to create copies of what sylvari send back to it, and if Caithe’s explanation of the White Stag is to be believed, it’s even capable of creating manifestations of sylvari emotion. Put all that together, and Caithe and Faolain’s trip to Orr is probably the first time the sylvari race, and possibly the Dream (depending on its exact nature), were exposed to the full extent of dragon corruption, and what the world would look like if they get their way. My bet would be that the Nightmare is either the Dream reflecting the sylvari’s emotional response, the bleakness and darkness of a dragon-dominated world (possibly responding more to Zhaitan’s shadow aspect than the death one), or reacting against it, lashing out violently against something it’s proven to have an antipathy for, or a bit of both- the same way being sick is often as much about the body’s overzealous reaction to an infection as it is about the damage from the bacteria/virus/parasite itself. After that, it might be as much about associations as anything else- when Cadeyrn’s Court, which advocated a philosophy of embracing the darker side of the sylvari nature, also embraced this force, linking the two in their own heads might’ve also linked them in the Dream.

(That said? I suspect I’m wrong. My track record with guessing ANet’s story direction has been very spotty. They’re more often interested in a twist they’ve deliberately kept secret or in something that makes thematic sense than they are in what logically follows from the evidence that we currently have access to.)

R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.

(edited by Aaron Ansari.1604)