Guild Wars 2

Really curious on why there is no Risen Karkas or any evidence that Risen placed foot on there. They were in the way between Claw Island and Orr.

Because the Karkas just surfaced, and, depending on how Anet wants the timeline, Zhatain may already have been killed when they came up. Not every island has to be swarming with undead either.

Some suggested that Karka (also Largos, Hyleks, Kraits, and some Quaggans) were driven out not by Zhaitan or other known ED’s, but Bubbles the DSD. And we haven’t seen any signs of Bubbles’ corruption on creature yet.

Obviously the karka, largos, moa birds, mosquitoes, skritt, and other various creatures are immune to the dragons’ corruption, otherwise we’d have models of them in the game.

Obviously karka and their barrel rolling is too epic to be killed by some mere risen. /endsarcasm

Indications lead to the Southsun Cove’s creation and karka being fairly recent, so as Excelliate said they might have surfaced after Zhaitan’s death.

@Kerithlan: The High Priestess of Dwayna/Statue of Dwayna (NPC one that is) model was actually originally a risen female largos.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

@Kerithlan: The High Priestess of Dwayna/Statue of Dwayna (NPC one that is) model was actually originally a risen female largos.

This is an obvious lore retcon, or else it would still be in the game.

If something is changed while its in development, its not a retcon.

Its starting to get annoying how people are beginning to just throw “retcon! retcon!” everywhere. It’s like they don’t even know what the term means anymore.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

If something is changed while its in development, its not a retcon.

Its starting to get annoying how people are beginning to just throw “retcon! retcon!” everywhere. It’s like they don’t even know what the term means anymore.

No way man it is a total retcon. Largos used to be corruptible but now they are not, they’re immune to dragon corruption now. Game model data supports this.

I do hope you’re just being sarcastic there, which I’m fairly sure you are, seeing how nothing says or implies largos can’t be corrupted.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

I do hope you’re just being sarcastic there, which I’m fairly sure you are, seeing how nothing says or implies largos can’t be corrupted.

Since the game models comprise the game and thus populate Tyria, the lack of a corrupted largo model means they are immune to corruption. We see Dougal in-game so we know he exists, and we see images of and references to Snaff, so he obviously exists as well.

Kerithlan.1659:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

I do hope you’re just being sarcastic there, which I’m fairly sure you are, seeing how nothing says or implies largos can’t be corrupted.

Since the game models comprise the game and thus populate Tyria, the lack of a corrupted largo model means they are immune to corruption. We see Dougal in-game so we know he exists, and we see images of and references to Snaff, so he obviously exists as well.

BY that logic – we do not see Vizier Khilbron and therefore he does not exist… lmao.

Yes the in game models tell you what is there, but an absence of a model does not tell you what is not there. You could say “There is no model for flying pigs in GW2!”, but until Anet specifically states that there are no flying pigs anywhere in Tyria you cannot truly say that there aren’t.

There is a lot we don’t know about the Largos, the absence of Risen Largos doesn’t tell you anything other than that none were corrupted that we saw in game. Anet using the model they created for something different tells you nothing either – it’s entirely possible it was created by someone on the team and then they realised there would be no reason for a Largos to have been near Zhaitan to be corrupted, and therefore used the model for something else instead so as not to put it to waste. Likewise it is entirely possible that Largos are immune to corruption – but based on the evidence we are presented with that is not a conclusion you can make without it being a logical fallacy.

While I agree with Foxx and Konig regarding game models, the fact that we never see risen largos raises some questions (for the sake of simplicity I consider the Dwayna High Priestess brutally corrupted humans). We encounter several throughout Orr hunting for worthy opponents, which they find a lot (mostly in the form of risen krait).

There’s even an event chain where a largos huntress is poisoned and captured by an undead krait sorceror, but she isn’t turned into a risen despite being their “guest” for some time before the local quaggan mount a rescue attempt. (In one of the greatest fear story steps the risen krait reanimate a person they had captured in their life very soon after succumbing to Zhaitan’s corruption.)

And also, quite a lot of largos refugees might have stopped at Orr to look for strong foes who they could best in order to prove their skills, and I can’t imagine every single one of those hunters succeeding ad surviving – especially when you consider that we, the players, always have to save their arses when they are out on such hunts. In summary, if largos can be corrupted, there ought to be some in Orr, but since there isn’t any, it’s possible they are actually incorruptible. Same with the northern largos fleeing Jormag. : no icebrood largos – yet.

Risen Ancient Karka. One crab to destroy the continent….

Kerithlan.1659:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

I do hope you’re just being sarcastic there, which I’m fairly sure you are, seeing how nothing says or implies largos can’t be corrupted.

Since the game models comprise the game and thus populate Tyria, the lack of a corrupted largo model means they are immune to corruption. We see Dougal in-game so we know he exists, and we see images of and references to Snaff, so he obviously exists as well.

So using your logic…

Centaurs, harpies, skritt, jotun, grawl, skale, skelk, rats, and so forth cannot be corrupted.

Horses do not exist, despite being referenced dozens of times.

Gorillas only exist as risen undead.

The Six Gods do not exist. Wolf, Raven, Snow Leopard, Ox, Owl, Eagle, Wurm do not exist (the Spirits of the Wild). Kalla Scorchrazor does not exist.

Your logic fails.

It does bring in questions, but it certainly doesn’t prove they’re immune to corruption.

Thalador.4218:

There’s even an event chain where a largos huntress is poisoned and captured by an undead krait sorceror, but she isn’t turned into a risen despite being their “guest” for some time before the local quaggan mount a rescue attempt.

i believe this event chain was what the model was originally meant for until it was repurposed for Dwayna’s high priestesses.

As for no icebrood largos – given the fact that they keep secretive and Jormag corrupts via promises of power, unless they’re captured I doubt they’ll be corrupted – they seem to me like the kind of people who’d rather fight Jormag to prove their strength rather than fight for him to prove their strength.

The lack of models I’d presume is more that they were putting resources elsewhere, and the risen largos was repurposed in order to save resources on a Dwayna High Priest model. At least, that’s the reason I tell myself for why there’s no icebrood/branded wurms, icebrood centaurs, destroyer anything-but-troll/crab/harpy, icebrood/branded grawl, etc.

No guys you don’t get it, everything is obviously immune to corruption if we haven’t seen it corrupted yet.

Gorillas obviously only exist in Orr and so obviously have been extinct for a while, obviously.

Yeah… there were many types of simians in the Tarnished Coast

Champion risen elder karka (shudder’s at the thought of pull, barrel roll, spam death machine). That’d be really freaggin scarey!

I’m still disappointed that we didn’t get a story mission where Trahearne helps us fight risen Karka underwater.

As if we didn’t have enough risen creatures plaguing just about every friggin zone out there.

Actually, there is a risen Largos.
It’s encountered in an event in Bloodtide Coast, called an “Orrian Terror”. I think it’s part of an event chain in Castavall – you can fight it there, or (I believe if that event is failed) on Mistarion beach.

runeblade.7514:

Really curious on why there is no Risen Karkas or any evidence that Risen placed foot on there. They were in the way between Claw Island and Orr.

From a ‘out of lore perspective’, They’ve only just added karka.

Ninth Requiem.3250:

Actually, there is a risen Largos.
It’s encountered in an event in Bloodtide Coast, called an “Orrian Terror”. I think it’s part of an event chain in Castavall – you can fight it there, or (I believe if that event is failed) on Mistarion beach.

Not sure, is that the “Orrian Terror” that spawns inside that underwater cave?

If it is, then it just an ordinary “I-got-corals-growing-on-my-back” Risen. It was dark down there, but I got a good look on it as it chewed my face off. :p

From my perspective there are mostly creatures from Orr and the one Orrians fought against that are turned :
Zhaitan corrupted ancient Orr creature to fight for him and when they kill someone they send their corpse to be turned to so races that are not actively fighting the risen have less to no people being corrupted. Since they are almost none of them being turned they seem to think they are less concerned so they don’t go and fight activelly against them … Like a circle. However it is not because we don’t semme to meet any of those races that are turned mean there are none, maybe they are just very few when you compare it to humans and garillas on Orr for exemple.
The only race really immune from what we know is Sylvari.

Ninth Requiem.3250:

Actually, there is a risen Largos.
It’s encountered in an event in Bloodtide Coast, called an “Orrian Terror”. I think it’s part of an event chain in Castavall – you can fight it there, or (I believe if that event is failed) on Mistarion beach.

I recall an “Orrian Terror” champion event in Sparkfly Fen (I think it was Sparkfly Fen and not Bloodtide) – it used a Risen Knight model, wings and such.

Since this thread is still alive, I would like to point out that Southsun cove(assuming that Karkas are asleep or something) could’ve been a great strategic position for Risen. It is really odd. If Zhaitan or his Lieutenants placed Risens all over Southsun and fortified it, he can attack all of the south shores in Tyria in any direction.

ArenaNet could’ve showed some Risen remnant or something or drop a dialogue that Risen did once exist here even if they don’t want to have more Undead. It would make sense.

I prefer the explanation that the islands themselves are fairly new, given how volcanic they appear, and thus wouldn’t have existed for the risen to occupy.

Plus, with the war going on in Orr, most of the risen armies would be tied up and on the defensive. It would be poor strategy to overextend by trying to occupy more distant land when you have enemies knocking on your front door.

Could also be that the Karka are too alien or otherwise Lovecraftian for Zhaitan to raise them. Remember how they are touted to be really ancient and stuff?

It has happened before with the Sylvari.

Twoflower.7031:

Also, Zhaitan is dead, if Southsun Cove takes place after Arah.

Yes, and Europe takes place after Australia.

What if karkas are actually corrupted by Bubbles? Then obviously they could not be corrupted by any other dragon.Is it stated anywhere speciffically that they are not corrupted?

My theory bout it is that the Karka invasion is actually a result of Zhaitan’s death.
I am assuming two things.
A: the invasion takes place after Zhaitan died
B: They are on the run for the DSD aka bubbles

Zhaitan’s base of operations in Orr means he controlled access to the sea of sorrow’s.I think the following might have happened. The Karkas got on the run for the DSD,and on their path they found Zhaitan and his forces blocking progress, so they where trapped between two forces with no way to go.

As soon as Zhaitan died they had a change to get out and entered the sea of sorrows resulting in what we know now as the karka invasion.

Given how tough karka are, if they ran into Zhaitan’s forces, wouldn’t at least some of them get corrupted? And if so, it would have made sense for Zhaitan to throw them at the Pact.

Well Zhaitan would need to kill a Karka first before it can become a risen and seeing how strong their shells are and with Zhaitan being occupied with the Pact forces, I’d say no risen ever killed a Karka. At best they killed some hatchlings, but they aren’t really risen material, they are small and their shells are weak and since they are undead, they wouldn’t grow up anymore.
While I do think a champion of Zhaitan could kill an adult Karka, he just never bothered to send one against them, as long as they are needed to attack the Pact. Besides that, I’m sure the Karka avoided the Risen as long as they were contolled by Zhaitan, only after his death they broke through their ranks to get to what would later be Southsun Cove. It’s impled that canonicly Lost Shores takes place after Zhaitan’s death.

Thanks Matthew for clearing this up
We don’t see you lot often mingle with our mindless jabbering over small prints in some obscure parts of lore (though I’m pretty sure you have a great time reading it all ). So I really appreciate you word in this.

Any chance of Karka as a future playable race?

Thanks Matthew. On a side note I can’t imagine how horrible a Risen Karka would be to fight omg…..the crazy CC from the Risen combined with the extreme toughness of the Karka (spinal shivers).

DaShi.1368:

Any chance of Karka as a future playable race?

If anyone thought doing JPs with a big Norn/Charr was bad …

tigirius.9014:

Thanks Matthew. On a side note I can’t imagine how horrible a Risen Karka would be to fight omg…..the crazy CC from the Risen combined with the extreme toughness of the Karka (spinal shivers).

Only certain kinds of Risen CC, mainly the former Orrians. But I guess it was a joke anyway and I just ruined it…

@Matthew: Thanks for clearing that up (yes, I called it!). How big are the chances we get a lore Q&A in the near future?

Please,… I beg you a-net ! No more risen !
Zones are filled with risen and only risen,…

Really? Maybe because I play Norn, but most of my leveling time was spent fighting Svanir and the Flame Legion (oh, and the Dredge… Dredge everywhere! :p) – I killed my first risen at lvl80.

You need to get out of Orr for some R&R in the north.

Oglaf.1074:

Could also be that the Karka are too alien or otherwise Lovecraftian for Zhaitan to raise them. Remember how they are touted to be really ancient and stuff?

It has happened before with the Sylvari.

Sylvari are new, karka are old. How can it be the age that makes em uncorruptable for both?

Elder Dragons are far much more Lovecraftian than the karka, which are simply a deep sea lifeform.

MatthewMedina.5419:

the karka are recent arrivals to the surface from their original home deep in the ocean. The ocean is a big enough place that the karka managed to settle on Southsun without encountering many risen, and they avoided Orr for the same reasons they fled their home. The karka are an old, old species so they have encountered Elder Dragons and their minions before…and they’re certainly smart enough to understand the threat they represent.

I suppose this is confirmation that the karka were forced out of their homes by the deep sea dragon, probably twice now based on Zommoros’ dialogue.

Bullshizle.2675:

Please,… I beg you a-net ! No more risen !
Zones are filled with risen and only risen,…

The only zones filled with only risen are in Orr – and even then, its only 2 out of 3 (as there are Inquest in Malchor’s Leap). Risen are definitely the most spread enemy, but they’re not the only enemy in most zones (some zones they’re in they’re only a small portion of – e.g., Kessex Hills, Gendarran Fields, Caledon Forest – and in the others they’re less than half – e.g., Bloodtide Coast, Sparkfly Fen, Mount Maelstrom).

Risen are only in 9 of 25 zones, in fact (26 if you count Southsun Cove).

Did I say Sylvari were old?

No I did not.

I said that they were immune to corruption.

Oglaf.1074:

Did I say Sylvari were old?

No I did not.

I said that they were immune to corruption.

Tegwen once postulated that they could be too new to Tyria to be corrupted, that Zhaitan simply hadn’t seen them enough to figure them out yet.

MatthewMedina.5419:

The karka are an old, old species so they have encountered Elder Dragons and their minions before…and they’re certainly smart enough to understand the threat they represent.

I guess I probably missed a lot when my crate-opening quest bugged out on me, but I followed the plot as well as I could on the wiki.

I may just be oblivious, but I don’t think I understand the karka at all. I can sort of see how they’ve shown signs of notable intelligence on the animal scale (probably somewhere below most primates), but do they actually have a language by which they pass down such lore? Did that Ancient Karka tell all the little hatchlings the tales of the Elder Dragons of Yesteryear?

For that matter, what exactly do the karka do? I mean, besides eat, guard mineral deposits, and make more karka. Is there any reason why we had to go fight them in Southsun Cove, or was it all about the oil resources? I get that they attacked Lion’s Arch and a few other places, but from what I’ve read, that was only to hunt down the folks who played a part in their discovery and the infamous plant sample collection. Once that fiasco ended (the specifics of which I still don’t fully comprehend), why did we even go there? And why did we stay?

And what’s the deal with the plant sampling, anyway? Was that plant really important enough to start a war with Lion’s Arch, or are the karka just that territorial?

Karka strike me as less intelligent than dolphins (who are smart enough not to strike me at all). Dolphins seem like a pretty old race. Do they know about the Elder Dragons? Is that why we see Risen Sharks everywhere, but I’ve yet to observe a Risen Dolphin? I think we should send an envoy to the dolphins to aid us in our fight against the other dragons.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Elder Dragons are far much more Lovecraftian than the karka, which are simply a deep sea lifeform.

I’m just going to leave this here: http://hplovecraft.com/writings/texts/fiction/wid.asp

Now that we know these things are intelligent, my daily ori run just got a whole lot creepier.

MatthewMedina.5419:

Canonically, yes the Lost Shores weekend and lead-up was set after the events of the Guild Wars 2 personal story and the defeat of Zhaitan, so this is partially what made it possible for the karka to establish a clawhold on Southsun Cove.

Hello there, and thank you Matthew for your feedback.

This is an important matter, especially for roleplaying focused Guilds.

While previous content is probably going to be always available and playable by newer players,
is this an official indication that Zhaitan should be considered defeated, from a storyline perspective ?

Thank you and keep up the good work !

Oglaf.1074:

Did I say Sylvari were old?

No I did not.

I said that they were immune to corruption.

Technically you didn’t say that either, however you were giving the reasoning of “karka are immune to corruption for the same reason that sylvari are”

Which would basically mean “karka are immune because they’re new and the Elder Dragons don’t know enough about them to corrupt them” – however, both beliefs would be false.

As would the whole “maybe they’re so ancient they’re Lovecraftian” since that’s the department of the Elder Dragons, as I said.

Antares.2586:

MatthewMedina.5419:

Canonically, yes the Lost Shores weekend and lead-up was set after the events of the Guild Wars 2 personal story and the defeat of Zhaitan, so this is partially what made it possible for the karka to establish a clawhold on Southsun Cove.

Hello there, and thank you Matthew for your feedback.

This is an important matter, especially for roleplaying focused Guilds.

While previous content is probably going to be always available and playable by newer players,
is this an official indication that Zhaitan should be considered defeated, from a storyline perspective ?

Thank you and keep up the good work !

That’s pretty much what he just said, yes. He’s defeated by the time the karka are out and about.

I said nothing of the sort. I said:

1. The Karka might possibly be immune to corruption.

2. They’re said to be a really ancient species and are also very alien and Lovecraftian.

3. Creatures being immune to corruption is not unheard of as it has happened before in the game with the Sylvari.

I don’t see how Karka are lovecraftian. They are ancient, but that is all the similarities they share. Being from the deep sea is not what makes you lovecraftian. Some of Lovecraft’s creation came from the deep sea, but most didn’t and some of those who dwelled there, were originally from space. The Karka also lack the complete alien morals, they behave like normal animals, with a bit of a swarm intelligence, but nothing too unusual. They also don’t make you descent into madness/have mind controlling or altering powers (which the elder dragons have).
They are more akin to living fossils than anything Lovecraft created.

An alien-looking thing rising up from the unexplored depths could very well be the definition of Lovecraftian.

It isn’t, but well.. y’know…