…So how else do we explain the steam creatures? It doesn’t seem sensible to base such a curious portion of the game on one race’s specific invention choice, since it may not be chosen. Not to mention, if it isn’t chosen it couldn’t come to be, at least from your character’s hands. As such, there has to be an additional parallel explanation for them that excludes the player character and can affect everyone.
There are only two races (that come to mind) that utilize mechanical tech kind of like the steam creatures extensively. The dredge and the charr. The thing is, the Iron Legion have shown, to my knowledge, no tech entirely on par with the steam creatures, nor have they seemed interested in self-modification. They’ll build tanks and vehicles, but I don’t know of anything more self-augmenting focused.
The dredge, on the other hand, have gone around in mech suits and have gone around wearing lanterns on their backs for ages. They’re no strangers to tethering some bits of tech (if you can consider the lanterns that) to themselves. That of course doesn’t necessarily mean they’re behind the tech, but let’s consider that their leaders have been known to be ruthless, and it wouldn’t be a stretch to suggest they might try heavier tech integration into their fellow dredge.
There’s still a missing link, however. The Mechagates. The dredge have nothing on this, and their constant infighting would seem to prevent them from the extensive steam augmentations to such a variety of creatures.
But, we do know the Inquest have been involved with them in Sorrow’s Embrace. And we also know the Inquest have the odd habit, for asura, to share their research with each other. I don’t know that we know how long they were with the dredge, but I have little doubt that, as asura, they would try to gather any and all info on their type of technology.
This leads me to believe that some parallel explanations for the steam creatures, for everyone else, may be that in an alternate reality the Inquest succeeded in their efforts with the dredge or this is the aftermath of a steambased cybernetics experiment gone wrong. Whether in the case of the alternate reality the Inquest just crushed the dredge afterward or what happened remains unclear, but it seems like these might prove more viable options for helping to explain the steam creatures without relying on a personal story option that only certain asura would know.
(edited by Gmr Leon.1846)
you don’t have to take that choice, as long as SOMEONE has.
To expand upon Bruno’s answer, as the steam creatures are from an alternate reality, and not technically the future, the player’s personal story can not impact it. The only difference would be “creatures invented by some asura in an alternate reality” as opposed to “creatures invented by MY asura in an alternate reality”. I certainly do expect to see some explanation for them above and beyond what was presented in the personal story, as they seem to be part of the living story, but their origin remains sufficiently detached and vague to work with non-asura, or non-infinity ball, characters.
Granted, nothing says that the alternate reality’s Inquest couldn’t have been involved.
…That’s sort of what I was saying too? Albeit with an emphasis on the someone being affiliated with the Inquest and dredge.
My apologies if I have this wrong- my reading of your post was that the steam creatures need an origin other than the Grand Sovereign encountered in the Infinity Ball storyline.
My apologies if I have this wrong- my reading of your post was that the steam creatures need an origin other than the Grand Sovereign encountered in the Infinity Ball storyline.
I think it was I that was misreading both of your posts. I was reading them as an echo to what I was saying when you both may have been pointing out that it didn’t need to be the fellows I suggested.
I might be juggling too many thoughts right about now. But to answer your question, yes, that was the primary concern of my OP.
If you pay attention enough through the various alternate Orr story steps, you’ll see that just about every story path occurs – more or less – except without your character being the one that went there.
Even if you didn’t have the Dead Sister storyline for humans, SPOILERS that missing sister, Deborah, will return in Orr if you choose the Vigil’s plan for invading Cursed Shore. Similarly, even if you didn’t do the Act with Wisdom storyline as a sylvari, Tegwen and Carys still had their situation with the mirror – it’s just that Carys didn’t get your help in saving Tegwen. If you go to the Temple of Grenth in Orr near the end of the storyline, you’ll find the Statics asura storyline colleges there with their invention – even if you weren’t part of that storyline.
In this case, it would likely be that “some other asura made the Infinity Ball” or it would be “some asura goes on taking over the world and made the Steam creatures and sent them back” (or even “there’s a chance my asura goes to take over the world… he/she just didn’t make the Infinity Ball – but someone else did so my asura uses someone else’s invention to send an army back in time”).
It’s hard to define what the “canon” is here in the nitpickery of things, but effectively all storylines take place irregardless.
If you pay attention enough through the various alternate Orr story steps, you’ll see that just about every story path occurs – more or less – except without your character being the one that went there.
Even if you didn’t have the Dead Sister storyline for humans, SPOILERS that missing sister, Deborah, will return in Orr if you choose the Vigil’s plan for invading Cursed Shore. Similarly, even if you didn’t do the Act with Wisdom storyline as a sylvari, Tegwen and Carys still had their situation with the mirror – it’s just that Carys didn’t get your help in saving Tegwen. If you go to the Temple of Grenth in Orr near the end of the storyline, you’ll find the Statics asura storyline colleges there with their invention – even if you weren’t part of that storyline.
In this case, it would likely be that “some other asura made the Infinity Ball” or it would be “some asura goes on taking over the world and made the Steam creatures and sent them back” (or even “there’s a chance my asura goes to take over the world… he/she just didn’t make the Infinity Ball – but someone else did so my asura uses someone else’s invention to send an army back in time”).
It’s hard to define what the “canon” is here in the nitpickery of things, but effectively all storylines take place irregardless.
That’s precisely the kind of silliness I had hoped they would avoid. >_>
After watching WoodPotatoes most recent video about the Thaumanova Reactor explosion I realized something I overlooked when playing through the Asura personal story.
The Grand High Sovereign, the player character from the alternate future, reminisces about the battle of Divinity’s Reach to his Vice Admiral, Shodd. Now where is the living story currently taking place? The 1 year anniversary for the game is also coming up soon and we’re supposed to expect something big to happen.
In Colin Johanson’s most recent interview, he said that the next update will bring together all of the living story arcs so far. Okay, maybe not all of them if you count the Lost Shores update in November. I doubt they will reveal more information about the Karka any time soon.
http://ca.ign.com/articles/2013/08/09/guild-wars-2-teases-anniversary-plans
You bring up interesting points about the Inquest involvement with the Dredge. There could be a strong connection here with the current living story than we think. It’s been alluded to that there was someone pulling the strings of the Molten Alliance. The Dredge and Flame Legion would not have agreed to form an alliance unless there was some third party intervention.
Now consider that the Aetherblades are affiliated with the Inquest like the Dredge are. Also consider that most recently the Aetherblades have shown us technology that we have not seen from even the Inquest. They can instantly teleport their troops on the ground from their airships. More amazing is that their airships can travel through these portals that we have seen only from the steam creatures.
I know this sounds like a mess but consider this. Maybe the Inquest the Aetherblades are working with are not the present day Inquest but the alternate future Inquest. It would explain the advanced technology. Regardless of whether they’re lead by the player character or not we know they exist. We also know that Shodd was with the Grand High Sovereign and so it’s possible that he will continue the work the player character abandons.
There are still so many questions. What are Anise, Ellen, and Kasmeer’s true intentions? Is Scarlet the leader of the Aetherblades or is she just someone really high up in the chain of command? Assuming something does happen at the Queen’s Jubilee, what will be the ultimate fate of Divinity’s Reach? Hopefully some if not all of these questions will be answered in the next update. We could possibly be getting even more answers when the Thaumanova fractal is released. This could potentially tie up all loose ends.
What, that “all storylines happen, just not as effectively as if you were there”?
The best example of that is the human street rat – if you choose to save Quinn, Logan screws up and people get poisoned, but the job gets done. If you choose to stop the poison, no one’s there to defend Quinn. Both threats happen – it’s just depending on which one you go to help prevent. When you’re not there, it’s not done as effectively so there’s more casualties.
Edit:
@ zeromius: that post is probably far more suited for this thread since it discusses the current developments in the LS. Nonetheless, how did I forget about the Battle of Divinity’s Reach? >.<
As to tying in all LS storylines – I think that’s further proof that the Molten Alliance were made by Scarlet and the Aetherblades. For whatever reason.
As for the fate of DR – I doubt it’d fall as in the alternate future. After all, the PC didn’t turn evil… yet.
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
What, that “all storylines happen, just not as effectively as if you were there”?
The best example of that is the human street rat – if you choose to save Quinn, Logan screws up and people get poisoned, but the job gets done. If you choose to stop the poison, no one’s there to defend Quinn. Both threats happen – it’s just depending on which one you go to help prevent. When you’re not there, it’s not done as effectively so there’s more casualties..
Yeah, more or less that. I would expect it on a limited scale like that, but it sounds like it may happen on a broader scope as another character doing whatever it was you might have done. Talk about diminishing things.
Also, exactly along the lines I was thinking Zeromius. Albeit without Shodd. Because as far as I can tell, Shodd doesn’t exist for all characters (though from what Konig’s saying it sounds like he may? which is blargh). If anything, I’d pin it as maybe an alternate Kudu that’s efforts weren’t foiled.
From what is said in the Split Second mission, it is possibly that Grand High Sovereign didn’t invent the steam technology…
Mysterious Stranger: You don’t stand a chance. In your world, this technology hasn’t even been invented yet!
He didn’t say, “I didn’t invent this technology yet!”. He only said it hadn’t be invented yet. In the alternate universe, it is possible that Scarlet invented the technology there as well, and the GHS only expanded on it after, I assume, her death.
Since we haven’t seen hide nor hair of Shodd, I’m wondering if he is going to be playing a part in the future, maybe helping Scarlet with all the steam tech. He did seem to love the idea of being Grand Vice-Admiral. I guess we will have to see if he shows up for the supposed “Battle for Divinity’s Reach”.
You’re right in that there’s nothing that really proves that the Grand High Sovereign invented the steam technology. If anything, he’s just making use of what was already there. However, I wouldn’t jump to conclusions about Scarlet being the inventor. There’s every reason to believe she’s more of a mesmer than an engineer. During your encounter with Scarlet at the Jubilee, you’ll notice that she is able to teleport between the different platforms. She supposedly gets hit by an arrow fired by Rox but just laughs. I’m guessing that what Rox shot was just an illusion, something mesmers are known for producing. Watch the opening ceremony starting from around the 7 minute mark.
I’m not saying that she can’t be an engineer and happen to have abilities that resemble that of a mesmer. It’s just more likely that she’s a mesmer. I’m also not saying that mesmers can’t invent things but also consider that she’s a sylvari. Sylvari aren’t exactly known for their technological prowess. With help from Shodd though, it’s a definite possibility that she made use of steam tech to create the Aetherblades. Of course, we have to assume that she’s calling the shots first.
Ya, maybe not inventor. She is probably more of the investor/backer of the technology. I would say mastermind, but for all we know; someone could be pulling her strings as well. It’s hard to tell with crazy people like that.
Er… I’m sorry but it is said that the Grand High Soverieng made the Steam Creatures:
Mysterious Stranger: Wait until you get to know my creations. In my reality, they conquered Tyria.
If they’re his creations, he invented them. >.>
Of course, that doesn’t prevent someone else from inventing the “same thing” in an alternative reality.
I’m not arguing about the invention of the steam creatures. I’m just saying, with the way it’s worded, it’s possible that he didn’t invent the technology behind them though.
What, that “all storylines happen, just not as effectively as if you were there”?
The best example of that is the human street rat – if you choose to save Quinn, Logan screws up and people get poisoned, but the job gets done. If you choose to stop the poison, no one’s there to defend Quinn. Both threats happen – it’s just depending on which one you go to help prevent. When you’re not there, it’s not done as effectively so there’s more casualties..
Yeah, more or less that. I would expect it on a limited scale like that, but it sounds like it may happen on a broader scope as another character doing whatever it was you might have done. Talk about diminishing things.
Also, exactly along the lines I was thinking Zeromius. Albeit without Shodd. Because as far as I can tell, Shodd doesn’t exist for all characters (though from what Konig’s saying it sounds like he may? which is blargh). If anything, I’d pin it as maybe an alternate Kudu that’s efforts weren’t foiled.
the personal story was designed so that all story steps are canon regardless of whether or not your player was involved in it. this is an MMO, not a single player game. shodd’s story arc might have been done by another player rather than you, it doesn’t mean that it didn’t happen. you share the world and the events, even the instanced ones, and that’s something people love to forget about when discussing lore.
the easiest example is how even non-asuras benefit from the lv20-30 asura quest line, where the asura players save a scientist that, around lv50 or so, comes up with a special anti-orrian gun.
the personal story quests are all intertwined, they’re not isolated events, with each player living in their own isolated universe. that’s the reason we are “a pact commander”, not “the leader of the pact”. it’s why oftentimes the player needs to take a backseat, because if we give them an absolute position, then suddenly the stories start contradicting themselves.
Yeah, more or less that. I would expect it on a limited scale like that, but it sounds like it may happen on a broader scope as another character doing whatever it was you might have done. Talk about diminishing things.
Also, exactly along the lines I was thinking Zeromius. Albeit without Shodd. Because as far as I can tell, Shodd doesn’t exist for all characters (though from what Konig’s saying it sounds like he may? which is blargh). If anything, I’d pin it as maybe an alternate Kudu that’s efforts weren’t foiled.
So you’d rather have a lack of canon events – since the events that occur can only happen if you did them – over a set basis of canon with flexibility for whether it included the awesome PC or not?
Sorry, but that wouldn’t really work out in the long run.
The other paths of the PS still happen if you don’t choose them.
In orr when you walk into fort trinity for the first time, the npcs near the gate will be talking about the orb that stops Zhaitan’s corruption. The orb still exists and it will still be in fort trinity even if you don’t choose the story path that would’ve discovered it.
What, that “all storylines happen, just not as effectively as if you were there”?
The best example of that is the human street rat – if you choose to save Quinn, Logan screws up and people get poisoned, but the job gets done. If you choose to stop the poison, no one’s there to defend Quinn. Both threats happen – it’s just depending on which one you go to help prevent. When you’re not there, it’s not done as effectively so there’s more casualties..
Yeah, more or less that. I would expect it on a limited scale like that, but it sounds like it may happen on a broader scope as another character doing whatever it was you might have done. Talk about diminishing things.
Also, exactly along the lines I was thinking Zeromius. Albeit without Shodd. Because as far as I can tell, Shodd doesn’t exist for all characters (though from what Konig’s saying it sounds like he may? which is blargh). If anything, I’d pin it as maybe an alternate Kudu that’s efforts weren’t foiled.
the personal story was designed so that all story steps are canon regardless of whether or not your player was involved in it. this is an MMO, not a single player game. shodd’s story arc might have been done by another player rather than you, it doesn’t mean that it didn’t happen. you share the world and the events, even the instanced ones, and that’s something people love to forget about when discussing lore.
the easiest example is how even non-asuras benefit from the lv20-30 asura quest line, where the asura players save a scientist that, around lv50 or so, comes up with a special anti-orrian gun.
the personal story quests are all intertwined, they’re not isolated events, with each player living in their own isolated universe. that’s the reason we are “a pact commander”, not “the leader of the pact”. it’s why oftentimes the player needs to take a backseat, because if we give them an absolute position, then suddenly the stories start contradicting themselves.
Nah, see I was looking at the very base, what makes each character somewhat different. Everyone joins an Order and the Pact regardless, that’s all cool, what I was taking issue with was my own stupid notion of ignoring the other players and thinking it was NPCs filling out the other roles.
So say you make a ton of alts each pursuing the different lines, they all really happen for you and it’s neat to see them come to fruition somehow. What I was thinking, since I’m not the alt type and I’m very good about forgetting other players, is that a player only playing one character doesn’t see any of that, so they think they’re the only major hero of their race pursuing the Elder Dragon problem, besides the obvious Destiny’s Edge member. The other two choices were never made by anyone else since they were exclusive to you…Unless you maybe made an alt taking a different one. That’s still viable.
If however they come to find the traces of the other stories emerging with no indication of another player character involved, it may make them realize they’re actually not that big of a deal coming from their race, that none of their early choices were really of any interest. That’s kind of sucky, and Destiny’s Edge already contributes to that as-is.
However, coming at this from the perspective of other players filling out those other choices that you didn’t makes that more understandable and tolerable. What was nagging at me was the idea of race-specific Trahearne-like parallel NPCs of ourselves that just happened to take the other choices but didn’t (for obvious reasons) take the limelight. It really detracts from the experience for me if I think my involvement was too dramatically negligible, which it’s already teetering on as it stands, with the only thing keeping it rolling being whatever tiny scraps I chose at the start.
About that Asura Storyline, I’d like to remind you there’s zero link between the Steam creatures creation and the infinity ball. The later was a tool that allowed us to see the (potential) future. Nothing says the ball was required to create them or to become that Grand Sovereign guy.
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