Nuhoch Models excessively large?
a frog could maybe nibble at your fingers?
While I see your point, I do think that frogs could be terrifying if they were this size. They’re predators and eat smaller living animals. I mean come on, the whole “deadly leap” aside, they don’t even need to come near your to do anything, they can just strike you with their tongue and swallow you in one second. I actually think it’s more unsettling than claws and fangs, and I kinda like the idea.
Actually, the thing that’s weird for me is that the Nuhoc and Itzel only seem to eat insects. Seeing how big they are, some Nuhoc could just swallow tigers.
a frog could maybe nibble at your fingers?
While I see your point, I do think that frogs could be terrifying if they were this size. They’re predators and eat smaller living animals. I mean come on, the whole “deadly leap” aside, they don’t even need to come near your to do anything, they can just strike you with their tongue and swallow you in one second. I actually think it’s more unsettling than claws and fangs, and I kinda like the idea.
Actually, the thing that’s weird for me is that the Nuhoc and Itzel only seem to eat insects. Seeing how big they are, some Nuhoc could just swallow tigers.
First you should know that it is almost impossible for megafauna to be carnivorous and not be apex predators.
An anaconda can swallow a teenager and digest it, but it is able to do this safely because of its position on the food chain.
Remember how you felt after eating a meal that was way to large? Such a state is unsafe. The nuloch are presumably not the biggest thing in the jungle and it is unlikely they would engage in tasks that require so much energy as digesting a large meal, so swallowing something whole is a no no, eating it in chunks is a possiblity.
Second, size does not determine diet. Blue whales, the largest animal on this planet ever, are baleen feeders (they siphon water through filters and eat what they catch, usually small krill and plankton). It is less likely a blue whale would attempt to eat you than perhaps a tiger. Diet is determined by internal anatomy and physiology, as well as behaviors and environmental factors (like what lives there).
The intuition is to give milk to cats or some grapes to dogs because they are both semi omnivorous, but the reality is that we doesn’t understand that omnivorous does not mean they can digest everything.
“Kentigem”-chief. Born cycle of Dusk. Wyld Hunt:
Learn as much mending and medical info as possible so that it can be added to the Dream.
Become the first Chief of Mending and guide the newly awaken as well as those who want to learn.
Learn as much mending and medical info as possible so that it can be added to the Dream.
Become the first Chief of Mending and guide the newly awaken as well as those who want to learn.
Let me begin by saying that the wiki on Kodan quotes the race as being 10 feet tall. If we are to believe that the size of the Kodan models is a representation of 10 feet then the tallest Charr at the peek of its bow emote Is almost 2 feet taller. This is… arguable. Point being that the models in game are not necessarily the best representation of the true size of the race in lore.
With this being said, what is with the gargantuan size of the Nuhoch that make even the tallest Norn look like an Asura in comparison?
I really enjoy The lore and aesthetic of races such as the Charr, Norn, Kodan and Jotun as being towering Warriors and beasts. The Notion of these races as great towering warriors is shattered when a frog man is two times the size of your tallest Charr or Norn. Now sure I can understand if they are huge, but close to the size of a giant and a frog of all things? From the looks of it they tower over /almost/ every model in game even the up-scaled veteran bosses.
Some perhaps, 18 feet race, not a dinosaur or some strange lizard species, but a frog. of course this is just my opinion, but monstrous is not the first thing that comes to mind when I think of a frog. Large cats Mince you with their teeth, (Charr) a polar bear can disembowel you with it’s claws, (Kodan) and an ape can rip your face off (grawl) a frog could maybe nibble at your fingers.
Point is I feel the representation of the Nuhoch is a little absurd (especially when they can hardly walk on the bridges in the canopy villages) and personally Distracts me as I play and fight all the /other/ Giants in the game. I could take them as being bigger than Norn and other big races, but not this big. Don’t think they will rescale at all but personally I would be fine with imagining them maybe a foot above most giants.
Thoughts if any?
You shouldn’t use biology with the races in guilds wars. It has an over fascination with bipeds that disregards how anatomy works. Just accept it as fantasy and move on.
“Kentigem”-chief. Born cycle of Dusk. Wyld Hunt:
Learn as much mending and medical info as possible so that it can be added to the Dream.
Become the first Chief of Mending and guide the newly awaken as well as those who want to learn.
Learn as much mending and medical info as possible so that it can be added to the Dream.
Become the first Chief of Mending and guide the newly awaken as well as those who want to learn.
The size doesn’t bother me so much as the fact that some nuhochs are those massive giants, while others are the same size as Itzel. And both are “adult nuhoch models”.
What?
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
You don’t think a frog can be scary? Have you SEEN how they hunt? Yes, hunt. Frogs and toads are almost all carnivorous hunters.
Let me paint you a picture. You’re downsized to the size of a small bird and you’re on a hunting trip to track down and slay a deadly tarantula. You know they are fast and strong, and you know their bite is deadly. To that end you’ve brought a spear. But while looking for your terrifying foe you hear a rustling in the grass. You narrow your eyes and ready your spear as you approach, expecting to face the eight legged horror that is the tarantula. Suddenly a blur leaps from the grass with such incredible speed you can scarcely react. In an instant you find yourself in total darkness as it’s massive maw encases you. The mouth comes shut and shatters your legs, and as you let out a blood curdling scream it’s tongue rises up and crushes your body against the roof of it’s mouth before you’re swallowed whole.
Larger species of toads have been known to swallow tarantulas, rats, and birds as large as a parrot in one gulp. Their jaws are strong enough to crush just about any creature just slightly smaller than it to death.
You only consider frogs and toads to not be a threat because you are too large to be threatened by them, but that doesn’t mean they wouldn’t be terrifying if they could get you in their mouth.
Oh, and in addition to that many species of frogs and toads, even some of the larger ones that are already big enough to crush birds to death, are also highly toxic to the point that just coming into contact with them can make you sick.
The size doesn’t bother me so much as the fact that some nuhochs are those massive giants, while others are the same size as Itzel. And both are “adult nuhoch models”.
What?
Funny that you say that. Just a case of upscaling for mechanics and a symbolic representation of an Npc. Still, I have yet to find one of their villages, but trully? Some are the size of the blue ones? (wich are already norn sized btw) Are thy really? do they offer an explication for such extreme variance in scale? Even if the point is mechanical and symbolic these models are still way larger than other upscaled boss and champion models and characters such as the upscaled Warmasters in the silver wastes (Warmaster grit blade as an example). It is also out of no where because There is realy no other npc biped that I know of that is in beetween the size of these characters. Less im wrong
You don’t think a frog can be scary? Have you SEEN how they hunt? Yes, hunt. Frogs and toads are almost all carnivorous hunters.
Let me paint you a picture. You’re downsized to the size of a small bird and you’re on a hunting trip to track down and slay a deadly tarantula. You know they are fast and strong, and you know their bite is deadly. To that end you’ve brought a spear. But while looking for your terrifying foe you hear a rustling in the grass. You narrow your eyes and ready your spear as you approach, expecting to face the eight legged horror that is the tarantula. Suddenly a blur leaps from the grass with such incredible speed you can scarcely react. In an instant you find yourself in total darkness as it’s massive maw encases you. The mouth comes shut and shatters your legs, and as you let out a blood curdling scream it’s tongue rises up and crushes your body against the roof of it’s mouth before you’re swallowed whole.
Larger species of toads have been known to swallow tarantulas, rats, and birds as large as a parrot in one gulp. Their jaws are strong enough to crush just about any creature just slightly smaller than it to death.
You only consider frogs and toads to not be a threat because you are too large to be threatened by them, but that doesn’t mean they wouldn’t be terrifying if they could get you in their mouth.
Oh, and in addition to that many species of frogs and toads, even some of the larger ones that are already big enough to crush birds to death, are also highly toxic to the point that just coming into contact with them can make you sick.
Make anything big and it is scary, sure. Nice example (tho in this case im a hawk lol). Truthfully it is somthing that peeves me personally. There are some players that don’t much care for the character that they play, and that is fine, though there are others that enjoy playing a character they can relate too and or playing a character that they find to be strong and powerful. So much so that you often find people descusing topics on “who would win vs who” such as the infamous charr V norn discussion. I as well as many others want to feel empowered when we play our characters. Now there are many creatuers in the game larger than Charr, norn, koda ect but most are just large unintelligent beasts, these large frog cretures on the other hand are a fleshed out character and yet still larger than most things in game (wiling to bet larger or taller than many creatuers in game). Sure you can smoke most things in game bigger than norn single handedly but the visual aesthetics of seeing my norn or charr dwarfed by a frog even dwarfing things like kodan ogres and jotun kills it for me (adding to the fact that thy down scaled norn from the first game and creatures like kodan are under scaled for being 10 feet) . I just hate to imagine the powerfull norn warrior being swallowed whole by a kitten frog man (a comical even if well renderd looking one at that) or my charr being belly floped to death. I like to imagine that, sure these critters could be a little larger than most giants but I still want to imagine that my norn or charr could tassle with them in a game of strength. The qustion would be, is this absurd hight really indecative of lore hight? Sure I can take bigger than charr and norn but not this big. I know it may not matter to many but it truly kills me especially as an Rpr and lore hound and some one that plays an MMORPG to truly feel enpowerd in an otherwise powerless reality.
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You shouldn’t use biology with the races in guilds wars. It has an over fascination with bipeds that disregards how anatomy works. Just accept it as fantasy and move on.[/quote]
sorry I do not believe i said anything about biology. I know it’s fantasy and as such I would like the hero that i play to be… Well, fantastic and aeesome. I am not trying to change anything, just curious on a topic. We all have things we find inportant and some not so much. This has enough of a level of importance to me. Even if it is silly to others.
About your size comparison chart, one thing I would like to point out is that the livestream they held on the Itzel and Nuhoch explained that they increased the ingame size of Itzel only because they would be too hard to see ingame. They are actually much smaller. As for Nuhoch, it’s probably because it gives them a reasonable scale compared to the Itzel aswell as a feeling of a large intimidating beast.
I think this is a matter of mechanics leading lore. Larger models are easier to see, which is very important given that everything in HoT can stun you or knock you down. With the large amount of particle effects a larger model is simply easier to see.
May very well be more a mechanic than a representation of actual size in lore, at least for the Itzel as they are supposed to be much like tree frogs, tiny creatures, yet the in game model is still larger than the original hylek. Still when looking at the other larger races it still does not sit will with me that these particular hylek tower over them. I wish they would of given creatures at least like the Kodan and Jotun the same treatment, I also wish they did not down scale the Norn.
Course my main is a charr engi and I felt so kitten when I got my brand new hammer then in an instant the feeling was broken when I saw the comparison between my measly hammer and Tizlaks giant club. Truly ruined my immersion and that sense of empowerment that you get from playing a hero. In my head I still like to imagine That my Charr is a towering scary beast though the size of these hylek makes it hard too imagine. I suppose I should not expect any rescaling ever, though I do hope in future expansions they have characters and champions of dif races (such as kodan juton) that are also givin the same size so this frog does not look like the only behemoth.
In any case I like to imagine a Norn V Nuhoch or Nuhoch V Charr would be a great fight where both opponents would be able to give It their all… Though Norn would totaly be a greater challenge :P
Perhaps that could be fun for a thread? Norn V Nuhoch? What does anyone think?
Funny that you say that. Just a case of upscaling for mechanics and a symbolic representation of an Npc.
Mechanical upsizing is done for champions and legendaries, not standard mobs.
I’m talking about allied nuhochs. Some are just a foot or so taller than my charr, some my charr aren’t even half the size.
It’s one thing if they were all wtf huge, it’s another that they differ despite being of same ranking and regardless of allied or hostile.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Funny that you say that. Just a case of upscaling for mechanics and a symbolic representation of an Npc.
Mechanical upsizing is done for champions and legendaries, not standard mobs.
I’m talking about allied nuhochs. Some are just a foot or so taller than my charr, some my charr aren’t even half the size.
It’s one thing if they were all wtf huge, it’s another that they differ despite being of same ranking and regardless of allied or hostile.
That makes it more of a bummer then. I would think that a little tree frog race would be no bigger than a skritt, especially if the idea behind them is they are fast and stealthy creatures. Lore wise that would make sense. I can not imagine tree frogs the size of Charr and norn hiding in the trees and branches and living in thin little huts, that would be absurd. though mechanically I understand they must upsize the itzel (that would normally be skritt sized at most) and in turn they must upsize the Nuhoch (which I would imagine would really be the size of a large norn or charr) all in order to keep that (LITTLE GUY, BIG GUY) troupe.
These characters are peculiar in that regard. You are right. they may not even have an explanation for such a thing. In my mind I like to think Nuhoch are not any bigger, and if not just a little bigger than Charr and Norn.
I still find it absurd, and as silly as it may sound it truly upsets me that I can not feel that I am playing a very large and powerful character when I am next to these models.
Nuhoch aren’t tree frogs. They’re bull frogs. The Nuhoch’s size to the Itzel isn’t an issue. It’s the Nuhoch’s size to the Nuhoch. They vary too greatly being either size a or size b.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Nuhoch aren’t tree frogs. They’re bull frogs. The Nuhoch’s size to the Itzel isn’t an issue. It’s the Nuhoch’s size to the Nuhoch. They vary too greatly being either size a or size b.
I ment that the Itzel were tree frogs.
In this interview we are givin a number of 14 feet as envisioned by the narrative designer, Still pretty kitten tall but better than the what looks like 18 or 20 feet in game.
The Itzel are supposed to be large. Everything in maguuma is large. They’re a large race version of Hylek.
The Nuhoch, some I think are maybe a little too big…but they’re supposed to be large. Maguuma is supposed to be kind of…pre-historic.
you freaking out over giant frogs to me is strange when we have giant beetles, and giant mosqitos and wasps and stuff.
It’s a very primordial area.
buuuuuuut…..Most of the Nuhoch seem to be a size that I would imagine them being, Giant Bull-frog like Hylek people.
The Norn are still large by tyrian standards…there is no part in the lore whatsoever that describes norns as “the largest race that exists in the world”, or the charr as “huge towering beings”…Charr vary in size, they’re big cats.
Norn are giant compared to humans, sure…but the Jotun are giants, and larger than Norn…and then there’s the ACTUAL giants who are just immense.
Just my thought. (I do not think that itzel should be the size of skritt, given that they ARE supposed to be quite large in comparison to normal little hylek)
you freaking out over giant frogs to me is strange when we have giant beetles, and giant mosqitos and wasps and stuff.
Well in all fairness giant insects and even dinosaurs aren’t very unusual for Tyria. Varieties of Hylek that absolutely dwarf the largest playable races is pretty jarring however. Especially, as Konig has pointed out, when their size isn’t even consistent.
The Itzel are supposed to be large. Everything in maguuma is large. They’re a large race version of Hylek.
The Nuhoch, some I think are maybe a little too big…but they’re supposed to be large. Maguuma is supposed to be kind of…pre-historic.
you freaking out over giant frogs to me is strange when we have giant beetles, and giant mosqitos and wasps and stuff.
It’s a very primordial area.
buuuuuuut…..Most of the Nuhoch seem to be a size that I would imagine them being, Giant Bull-frog like Hylek people.
The Norn are still large by tyrian standards…there is no part in the lore whatsoever that describes norns as “the largest race that exists in the world”, or the charr as “huge towering beings”…Charr vary in size, they’re big cats.
Norn are giant compared to humans, sure…but the Jotun are giants, and larger than Norn…and then there’s the ACTUAL giants who are just immense.
Just my thought. (I do not think that itzel should be the size of skritt, given that they ARE supposed to be quite large in comparison to normal little hylek)
I will say again that I really don’t mind that these Hylek are bigger than the largest playable races lore wise, but even then, the models seem to be absolutely ludicrous. Even if the idea is that they are prehistoric the largest complete skeleton of a Trex that we have “Sue” is only 12 feet at the shoulder and these particular models seem to be reaching 20 feet. You mention the Jotun which are larger than Norn, well so should the kodan, yet they are seriously under-scaled compared to these models.
Yes I understand that there are bigger creatures such as giants, however they are rarities, these Hylek are something that you see often and many times you could solo them in combat. It is strange to see a standard model the size of something that you normally could only fight with a group (Actually these hylek are about the size of giants anyway). to add to that these hylek are not even immune to crowd control. It is strange seeing something that looks like 8000lbs being pulled by my engineers magnet and being knocked down by the smallest of Asura.
Its still also pretty strange to have the Itzel be the size of Charr and Norn, as they live in these canopies. It is hard to imagine a bear sized frog (900lbs about) living up in the trees.
I don’t care about the giant wasps and beetles because they are dumb beasts but these Hylek are intelligent bipedal beings who your character often walks amongst, The size difference as said before is jarring.
The average human is a half time bigger than the average asura, the average norn or charr is also about a half larger than a human, then all of a sudden these hylek are 2 or more times bigger than a Norn? Add to that bigger than most monsters in general? and you can still solo them?
Sure keep the size of the model but lore wise an 18 foot frog just seems to really undermine the image that the writers and artists built for the other races such Kodan, Norn, Charr, and Ogre (which by thy way as stated in the book edge of destiny ogres have eyes the size of disks!)
Lore wise I like assume a 9 foot Norn could battle a 13 foot slow and lumbering frog.
The average kodan is only a foot taller than the average norn in lore (not the concept art mind you – those show them to be as different as kodan and humans). But since players rarely take the height of “average norn” they often see kodan being not a foot in difference.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
The average kodan is only a foot taller than the average norn in lore (not the concept art mind you – those show them to be as different as kodan and humans). But since players rarely take the height of “average norn” they often see kodan being not a foot in difference.
I only assume the 10 feet in height from the wiki and the height of actual IRL polar bears that average at a little over half a ton (Some up to 1500lbs, Real life monsters that bears are lol) . Strange that they would downscale a bear race but upscale a frog race. As a fun fact the largest prehistoric bear (arctotherium) was 11 feet standing. Funny enough the game does have the veteran arctodus That is much larger in scale than the tallest Norn and Kodan Models, but even then smaller than the large nuhoch models.