Guild Wars 2

I wanted to discuss with anet and fellow rpers about Omadd’s machine existing inside the main map of Tyria, and how it should/should not be addressed by characters ICly.

I see virtually zero people rping even remotely close to Omadd’s Machine or the caverns, and the general consensus I’m getting from roleplayers is the entire area is taboo because we may not have enough information to properly incorporate it into character’s story.

But my concern is that it isn’t something like an instanced server or mission the machine is in, it’s real and a constant in the main world of Tyria. Maybe there is going to be more explained in a future release about how the machine should be handled in the rp community but as it currently stands, no one wants to even touch the thing with a ten foot pole. Something this major of significance in the world shouldn’t be ignored forever. Eventually some one or a group should logically occupy and conduct research on the device. It just wouldn’t make sense to have a fully functioning piece of asura tech be left completely untouched by the world.

People are already roleplaying in Dry Top and treating the region as part of their stories, and Omadd’s Machine is part of that region so by lateral logic should be considered just as valid as say, Prosperity or the Zephyrite Sanctum wreckage.

So let’s speculate how Omadd’s Machine should be properly recognized in the roleplay community since it is something that exists in the world, just like the Ascalonian Catacombs or The Brand, or Orr (which -still- is hostile, 2 years in game post Zhaitan’s defeat.) The asura in me would jump at the chance to conduct extensive research on the device and unless Anet’s got a plan for it in the next release or two, it’s just sitting there, waiting for someone to stake a claim.

My speculation is it would eventually be cracked and anyone could see the eternal alchemy if they learned how to activate the machine. Other speculation is it’s like a magic focal point and one could potentially use the magic there like a magnifying lens uses the sun to focus on a point.

Okay, must resist head canon. Let’s start discussing how it should be treated ICly and hopefully a dev can help, because it’s going to be annoying trying to ignore something that’s clearly in the main world.

It should be ignored, just as RPing as commander of the Pact or any other aspect of being the “chosen one” based on game stories. Too easy to GodMod. Too assuming that other players will simply accept and validate. They are right to wait and establish it as separate from the “personal aspect” of both LS and PS.

Same reason as RPing the obvious Mark of Acheron in AoC was frowned on. We all had it, once, but the game story disallowed everyone being the “chosen one”. Rather than allowing all to RP the snowflake, some things are best swept under the rug.

Otherwise, you get RP sessions like this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Xd_zkMEgkI
“I didn’t vote for you”

I RP’d with it and used it already… I brought my elementalist to kinda wander around Tyria drunk for days nearly losing it. My guardian took it better than her mother though.

well i was under the impression that RPers just pretended the canon story is kitten and/or done by someone else that totally isn’t their PC.

i mean, there are only so many people that can be the commander of the pact that reunited destiny’s edge, took down zhaitan, killed scarlet, and now leads a ragtag group of adventurers.

though going by my contact with a certain RPer yesterday, they dismiss stuff such as “lore” and “logic” in order to fit their weird story. i pointed out to them that sylvaris don’t have surnames, they got mad that i didn’t know the backstory, and that when the sylvari was a child it got adopted by a family of humans.

…sure.

I can see it now:
P1: I’m the new Scarlet! I went into the machine!
P2: NO I WAS THE ONE IN THE MACHINE
P3: IDIOT I WAS THE ONE IN THERE
P4: YOU’RE ALL WRONG THAT WAS ME
P2: IT ALSO GAVE ME POWERS TO KILL ALL OF YOU BOOM YOU’RE DEAD
P3: EXCEPT YOU DIDN’T GO IN
… the arguments would be insufferable.

Morsus.5106:

I can see it now:
P1: I’m the new Scarlet! I went into the machine!
P2: NO I WAS THE ONE IN THE MACHINE
P3: IDIOT I WAS THE ONE IN THERE
P4: YOU’RE ALL WRONG THAT WAS ME
P2: IT ALSO GAVE ME POWERS TO KILL ALL OF YOU BOOM YOU’RE DEAD
P3: EXCEPT YOU DIDN’T GO IN
… the arguments would be insufferable.

so basically make-believe fights?

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

It should be ignored, just as RPing as commander of the Pact or any other aspect of being the “chosen one” based on game stories. Too easy to GodMod. Too assuming that other players will simply accept and validate. They are right to wait and establish it as separate from the “personal aspect” of both LS and PS.

There was a saying in Guild Wars when it came to RPing as the Chosen. Went along the lines of, “Yeah, you and just about every single every person on this planet it would seem.”

Yeah, it’s taboo. I haven’t really seen or ventured close to it, simply stayed on Dry Top near the Centaur village.

BrunoBRS.5178:

though going by my contact with a certain RPer yesterday, they dismiss stuff such as “lore” and “logic” in order to fit their weird story. i pointed out to them that sylvaris don’t have surnames, they got mad that i didn’t know the backstory, and that when the sylvari was a child it got adopted by a family of humans.

…sure.

Hahaha oh dear, I never understood the appeal that the ‘adopted by super unlikely parents’ has to some people. Judgemental as I am, I bet that roleplayer is also inclined to ‘hug fluffy charr’ on an alarmingly regular basis, in 5 cringeworthy paragraphs at the least. :P

Yep, roleplayers commonly skip the very specific things from the story, such as becoming Pact Commander and such, for the sake of variety, continuity and fitting better with the setting and other characters. Though I don’t see how it would make sense to have a taboo surrounding Omadd’s machine, I mean it’s clearly there. Using it is another thing though, since I can imagine that after its discovery, people wouldn’t be allowed to like, jump into it just like that.

If you are roleplaying a Priory scholar or Asura scientist who wishes to conduct research on the thing, you can easily avoid awkward situations by failing to uncover how it works (since we don’t have much info yet). It’s all about the journey, and a character’s actions absolutely don’t have to be successful to make an enjoyable storyline.

BrunoBRS.5178:

Morsus.5106:

I can see it now:
P1: I’m the new Scarlet! I went into the machine!
P2: NO I WAS THE ONE IN THE MACHINE
P3: IDIOT I WAS THE ONE IN THERE
P4: YOU’RE ALL WRONG THAT WAS ME
P2: IT ALSO GAVE ME POWERS TO KILL ALL OF YOU BOOM YOU’RE DEAD
P3: EXCEPT YOU DIDN’T GO IN
… the arguments would be insufferable.

so basically make-believe fights?

No, real fights over make-believe. The problem with something like this is only one person could’ve done it, but countless people actually did, like defeating Zhaitan or exploring the depths of the Ascalonian Catacombs to help Rytlock and Eir defeat Adelburn. Everyone’s done it, so the best way to recognize that is to pretend no one has done it.

Morsus.5106:

BrunoBRS.5178:

Morsus.5106:

I can see it now:
P1: I’m the new Scarlet! I went into the machine!
P2: NO I WAS THE ONE IN THE MACHINE
P3: IDIOT I WAS THE ONE IN THERE
P4: YOU’RE ALL WRONG THAT WAS ME
P2: IT ALSO GAVE ME POWERS TO KILL ALL OF YOU BOOM YOU’RE DEAD
P3: EXCEPT YOU DIDN’T GO IN
… the arguments would be insufferable.

so basically make-believe fights?

No, real fights over make-believe. The problem with something like this is only one person could’ve done it, but countless people actually did, like defeating Zhaitan or exploring the depths of the Ascalonian Catacombs to help Rytlock and Eir defeat Adelburn. Everyone’s done it, so the best way to recognize that is to pretend no one has done it.

i’m just picturing two 6 year olds going “your power didn’t work on me because i’m immune to that kind of power, i just didn’t mention it before!”

but yeah, rule of thumb seems “either ignore the story for RPing purposes, or treat it as head-canon that has nothing to do with the PC”.

i’d much rather do the latter, because i find RPing out in the open to be a bit silly :P

You don’t necessarily have to ignore the story for RP purposes, just make sure you basically don’t strike the killing blow. I think there’s nothing wrong with roleplayers who for example, were with the Pact (amongst others of course) at Zhaitans defeat. There are quite some ways to elegantly incorporate (parts of) the main storyline into a character’s experiences.

Gaebriel.3754:

You don’t necessarily have to ignore the story for RP purposes, just make sure you basically don’t strike the killing blow. I think there’s nothing wrong with roleplayers who for example, were with the Pact (amongst others of course) at Zhaitans defeat. There are quite some ways to elegantly incorporate (parts of) the main storyline into a character’s experiences.

That’s right. I mean during Arah you see other Air-ship engaging Zhaitan’s dragons in the distance. Any respectable Roleplayer will be creative while not putting their character on the main character’s pedestal.

Yep, and even ‘off camera’ there might have been other airships. Especially in war situations, with a little creativity there’s always plenty of room to fit in a character.

Ronin.7381:

Gaebriel.3754:

You don’t necessarily have to ignore the story for RP purposes, just make sure you basically don’t strike the killing blow. I think there’s nothing wrong with roleplayers who for example, were with the Pact (amongst others of course) at Zhaitans defeat. There are quite some ways to elegantly incorporate (parts of) the main storyline into a character’s experiences.

That’s right. I mean during Arah you see other Air-ship engaging Zhaitan’s dragons in the distance. Any respectable Roleplayer will be creative while not putting their character on the main character’s pedestal.

you’re still one of the two founding fathers of the pact, and the very first commander (and for a while, the only one).

and i imagine pushing yourself to the sidelines has been progressively harder since living story started directly linking actions to you. YOU killed scarlet. you pulled the finishing blow and the NPCs remind you (indirectly) of it by reminiscing how none of them could have done it because they were busy with X (broken leg/near death experience)

BrunoBRS.5178:

Ronin.7381:

Gaebriel.3754:

You don’t necessarily have to ignore the story for RP purposes, just make sure you basically don’t strike the killing blow. I think there’s nothing wrong with roleplayers who for example, were with the Pact (amongst others of course) at Zhaitans defeat. There are quite some ways to elegantly incorporate (parts of) the main storyline into a character’s experiences.

That’s right. I mean during Arah you see other Air-ship engaging Zhaitan’s dragons in the distance. Any respectable Roleplayer will be creative while not putting their character on the main character’s pedestal.

you’re still one of the two founding fathers of the pact, and the very first commander (and for a while, the only one).

and i imagine pushing yourself to the sidelines has been progressively harder since living story started directly linking actions to you. YOU killed scarlet. you pulled the finishing blow and the NPCs remind you (indirectly) of it by reminiscing how none of them could have done it because they were busy with X (broken leg/near death experience)

Nope. You were one of the volunteers or members of the various orders who were told to help out, you never met the commander personally or ever saw him/her, you were one of the volunteers who helped pave the way for the main team to go after Scarlet (meaning that last battle with her hologram was YOUR last battle against her). Learn how to RP effectively man, you don’t bring solo instances into them.

RyuDragnier.9476:

BrunoBRS.5178:

Ronin.7381:

Gaebriel.3754:

You don’t necessarily have to ignore the story for RP purposes, just make sure you basically don’t strike the killing blow. I think there’s nothing wrong with roleplayers who for example, were with the Pact (amongst others of course) at Zhaitans defeat. There are quite some ways to elegantly incorporate (parts of) the main storyline into a character’s experiences.

That’s right. I mean during Arah you see other Air-ship engaging Zhaitan’s dragons in the distance. Any respectable Roleplayer will be creative while not putting their character on the main character’s pedestal.

you’re still one of the two founding fathers of the pact, and the very first commander (and for a while, the only one).

and i imagine pushing yourself to the sidelines has been progressively harder since living story started directly linking actions to you. YOU killed scarlet. you pulled the finishing blow and the NPCs remind you (indirectly) of it by reminiscing how none of them could have done it because they were busy with X (broken leg/near death experience)

Nope. You were one of the volunteers or members of the various orders who were told to help out, you never met the commander personally or ever saw him/her, you were one of the volunteers who helped pave the way for the main team to go after Scarlet (meaning that last battle with her hologram was YOUR last battle against her). Learn how to RP effectively man, you don’t bring solo instances into them.

which means my first statement was right. you pretend personal/living story is someone else.

way to make a circular argument :/

Mechanics != lore multiple commanders exist cause we have to buy it (100 gold) and with experience shown through battle (if you actually farm every token in wvw) and such. Sure you can buy gems and make gold that way… but we the heroes probably got the fame and fortune enough to afford it by now lore wise or it was given as a title and show of power to use cause of our leadership qualities that makes a good commander.

Also what’s to say we all didn’t kill Zhaitan all at once in a huge battle… only reason we have the “Pew pew! Press 1 and 2! Dragon dead!” thing is Anet can’t make a proper dragon fight.

When I RP and mention these events off hand in character(like going down memory lane), I will say it in a way that makes it sound fair to all in that we all killed the dragon when it came time “10 of thousands of heroes and adventurers came in response to the pact’s need from all their divisions and companies and orders and we took it down! It was a glorious day indeed!”

Also the commander bit:pops up tag (remember mechanics not equal to lore)<-ooc IC: I’m a commander of the pact, shows proof of it with her certificate and 100 gold retail value training manual but its nothing special as there are 100s of us out there leading or own small groups to war against the EDs at any given moment. Just having this book sin’t enough you have to prove you are up to the task at hand and lead or it will be you and who you command tat will be dead."

There are logical ways to explain it. Just don’t think there isn’t cause you can’t use critical thinking.

On Scarlet Briar: We could have all stormed her before she got away or she died on the spot. Majory getting hurt is another story…they (the biconics) could have went in the inner chamber and exploded shrapnel got her.

On the machine problem: Remember again Mechanics !=Lore the world is much larger than we see it in game. Any one of us could have encountered that machine in our travels (and reached it by other means not dictated by game boundaries?) so whats to say we all didn’t go take it for a joy ride?

I generally enjoy to think the “Commander of the Pact” as a split set of characters. In my head, the character itself makes no sense whatsoever when in reality it would have taken five different characters to manage what s/he did (Almost literally, as 4 out of 5 Destiny’s Edge members would be nigh dead or maimed without their applicable player character to assist them).
Due to Guild Wars 2 lore swiss cheese syndrome, I tend to roleplay my main character as parts of the ongoing events, in a less “chosen one that fixes everything!” light.
He, and his own group of misfits, assists in the processes to make things happen.
They assisted in the Pact’s initiatives. They went through Arah, as part of the military, and assisted in the fights. They were there to drive away the karka, and joined the armies to fight the Queen.
They are always there as the Living World develops, but they are always and most certainly split from the Multi-commander and his new DE. If anything too overpowered (Omadd’s machine or Scarlet’s death instance falls in this category) comes to play, they simply were not involved, as it would make them far too key to the setting to just be who they are.

BrunoBRS.5178:

Ronin.7381:

Gaebriel.3754:

You don’t necessarily have to ignore the story for RP purposes, just make sure you basically don’t strike the killing blow. I think there’s nothing wrong with roleplayers who for example, were with the Pact (amongst others of course) at Zhaitans defeat. There are quite some ways to elegantly incorporate (parts of) the main storyline into a character’s experiences.

That’s right. I mean during Arah you see other Air-ship engaging Zhaitan’s dragons in the distance. Any respectable Roleplayer will be creative while not putting their character on the main character’s pedestal.

you’re still one of the two founding fathers of the pact, and the very first commander (and for a while, the only one).

and i imagine pushing yourself to the sidelines has been progressively harder since living story started directly linking actions to you. YOU killed scarlet. you pulled the finishing blow and the NPCs remind you (indirectly) of it by reminiscing how none of them could have done it because they were busy with X (broken leg/near death experience)

I don’t understand what you’re trying to say. You can be very creative by seeking alternative stories without putting yourself at the center of it all in the personal story. I didn’t Scarlet, for example, my character was in Lion’s Arch trying to help strengthen the foot hold so the forces guarding the Breach Maker were smaller. Or hell, maybe even my character was in gandarren fields running orders back and forth or helping refugees establish themselves.

Ronin.7381:

BrunoBRS.5178:

Ronin.7381:

Gaebriel.3754:

You don’t necessarily have to ignore the story for RP purposes, just make sure you basically don’t strike the killing blow. I think there’s nothing wrong with roleplayers who for example, were with the Pact (amongst others of course) at Zhaitans defeat. There are quite some ways to elegantly incorporate (parts of) the main storyline into a character’s experiences.

That’s right. I mean during Arah you see other Air-ship engaging Zhaitan’s dragons in the distance. Any respectable Roleplayer will be creative while not putting their character on the main character’s pedestal.

you’re still one of the two founding fathers of the pact, and the very first commander (and for a while, the only one).

and i imagine pushing yourself to the sidelines has been progressively harder since living story started directly linking actions to you. YOU killed scarlet. you pulled the finishing blow and the NPCs remind you (indirectly) of it by reminiscing how none of them could have done it because they were busy with X (broken leg/near death experience)

I don’t understand what you’re trying to say. You can be very creative by seeking alternative stories without putting yourself at the center of it all in the personal story. I didn’t Scarlet, for example, my character was in Lion’s Arch trying to help strengthen the foot hold so the forces guarding the Breach Maker were smaller. Or hell, maybe even my character was in gandarren fields running orders back and forth or helping refugees establish themselves.

what i’m trying to say is that unless you don’t touch personal/living story, or treat it as a separate canon as your made-up story, then conflicts will arise.

GW2’s story isn’t written in an RP-friendly way, just like GW1 wasn’t. you can do it, of course, but with compromises regarding the story the devs are telling, since the devs are very specific of your character’s story.

BrunoBRS.5178:

what i’m trying to say is that unless you don’t touch personal/living story, or treat it as a separate canon as your made-up story, then conflicts will arise.

No conflicts should arise if you actually pay attention to the lore. Nobody is dismissing it, or shouldn’t but rather their character isn’t being cast as the main character. Again, looking at Arah – there are dozens of airships out there all fighting their own supposed battles (you’re seeing Zhaitan’s Dragon Champions flying all around) and holding their own. All a creative RPer has to do is think about that unknown character, and imagine themselves in that role instead of their personal story.

GW2’s story isn’t written in an RP-friendly way, just like GW1 wasn’t.

That sounds more like an excuse for having a lack of creativity. GW1 RPing was fine, it’s just the whole instances out the wazzoo made it pretty difficult to interact with people at random. It wasn’t an open world after all.

Again, nobody is taking canon elements and pretending they don’t happen. It’s just any respectable RPer doesn’t go around Divinity’s Reach proclaiming, “Yeah, I killed Zhaitan with Destiny’s Edge.” That is when conflicts arise.

I don’t RP with other people, but I’ve always had it in my head that my PCs formed their -own- little adventuring group apart from Destiny’s Edge. We were all Commanders, we all surged across Orr with the Pact army… and we kept Zhaitan’s forces at bay in a bunch of other airships so that Destiny’s Edge could face Zhaitan. My main’s the only one who ended up on the ship with DE – the rest were present but elsewhere. And with Zhaitan dead, my main joined my other PCs and went off for a good rest before participating in the LS.

I feel like it makes the story richer that way. Each separate character had a contributing, but only partial place in the story the game tells.

@Ronin – i’m not talking lore-wise. to the guild wars writers, your character is very much estabilished, from personality to actions. in GW1, you ARE the chosen. YOU defeated the great destroyer. GW2 is even worse, by putting your character, and your character alone, in situations that only he could’ve done but have worldwide impacts.

yes, you can be the anonymous soldier on the lion’s arch invasion, but unless you pretend the instanced story doesn’t exist/is someone else’s doing, then you start conflicting, because every player character is “the guy/girl that took scarlet down”. the RPing in GW2 can only be done player-to-player or player-to-game, never both at the same time.

BrunoBRS.5178:

yes, you can be the anonymous soldier on the lion’s arch invasion, but unless you pretend the instanced story doesn’t exist/is someone else’s doing, then you start conflicting, because every player character is “the guy/girl that took scarlet down”. the RPing in GW2 can only be done player-to-player or player-to-game, never both at the same time.

If you’re going to RP based on your personal story, then yes you’re going to find very few to RP with.

…but unless you pretend the instanced story doesn’t exist/is someone else’s doing…

That is exactly how you handle it. You don’t dismiss lore, you put the burden of success unto some undetermined NPC. That’s how you RP within the same universe of the IP you’re taking part in. Someone (an NPC) is out there beating Zhaitan with Destiny’s Edge, someone out there (an NPC) beat Scarlet, and someone out there (an NPC) booted into Omadd’s machine and saw the visions.

sigh

BrunoBRS.5178:

well i was under the impression that RPers just pretended the canon story is kitten and/or done by someone else that totally isn’t their PC.

BrunoBRS.5178:

which means my first statement was right. you pretend personal/living story is someone else.

way to make a circular argument :/

BrunoBRS.5178:

well i was under the impression that RPers just pretended the canon story is kitten and/or done by someone else that totally isn’t their PC.

And by asking you what you meant by that, I was trying to figure out whether you thought it was a good or bad thing.

BrunoBRS.5178:

which means my first statement was right. you pretend personal/living story is someone else.

way to make a circular argument :/

This quote of yours wasn’t directed at me, that was to RyuDragnier.

yes, that was directed at someone else, but then you started the same thing right after i was done with them.

i don’t care either way. i personally like keeping my character canon to myself so i can enjoy the story as it truly is, without concessions, but if you prefer the other way, go ahead. i’m just stating things because OP thought a story event would affect how to RP the character, and i thought it was weird, because it’s far from the most RP-breaking story event in the game.

There is a third alternative: use your story but remain vague about the details.

Instead of ‘being the one that killed Scarlet’ you could have been present at the battle for Lion’s Arch. Instead of being the ‘commander of the Pact’ you can be a high-ranking member of the Pact. Instead of ‘saving Destiny’s Edge’ you could have met them. And instead of having used Omadd’s machine, you could have been in Dry Top recently.

You still know what really happened, but you don’t have to go blabbering about it to every random stranger you meet right?

In my personal RP, it was my Sylvari who went into the machine. (She’s a rather naive, Dawn Cycle sylvari, so she acted pretty much on instinct to grab Taimi without considering the potential consequences.)

But for RP involving multiple characters, I agree it’s best that if we handwave it that the Personal/Living Stories operate on a completely separate wavelength. We can’t ALL be the Commanders of the Pact, or the Slayers of Issormir, or the killers of Zhaitan.

I don’t actively RP, but I see no reason why the thing should be ignored entirely, just like any of the Living World stuff should not be ignored entirely.

I mean, Lion’s Arch is destroyed. Are people pretending it’s not?

The slippery slope starts happening when YOUR CHARACTER becomes the one to enter the machine, to kill Scarlet, etc. SOMEONE did … this Pact commander and general Tyrian hero … but THAT PERSON ISN’T YOU. Or any of your fellow RPers.

/2 coppers on how I’d handle it.

I honestly think that a compromise can be made between personal story and Rp stories.
I’ll use my human guardian as a reference. The day he decides to explore the world is the day he finds himself in the starter area he fights the earth elemental and beats it this gets him noticed by Logan who while not recruiting him asks him to do jobs that he or the seraph couldn’t handle alone. through these deeds he is noticed by the orders(at this time all he really wants to do is explore and is rather annoyed by the interruptions.) He in the end chooses the priory at the promise of being able to explore the world. After his adventures with Sieran and his friendship with her (they are kindred spirits) they are pulled into the invasion of claw island where (SPOILERS) Sieran dies. Feel both pain and anger at the loss of Sieran my guardian swears vengeance on the dragon and with the meeting of Trahearne leads to his joining of the pact while he is the “commander” I consider it nothing more than a glorified sergeant that happens to know Trahearne a little better than most. So my guardian fights where he is ordered leading his squad(s) where he is told very little is exploring to be had and the little fun he does find is often spoiled by the death of his men and the rotten undead. Eventually through many hard fought battles he reaches arah and tackles Zhaitan yes he is on the big ship (forgot the name XP) and yes he shoots cannons at him (utterly unimpressed that the dragon’s minions offer more of a fight than the dragon) after the battle he asks to leave the pact in favor of exploring the world and it is granted. At this point my guardian interacts with other RPers. Taking the LW into account he is initially attracted attracted by the mystery of the events that occur but as he gets more and more involved the more he feels obligated to help not only out of duty but soon he finds himself wanting to help and thus he is happy in his merry group of adventurers commonly know as DE 2.0. ( I should note he has never once seen a slyvari “child.”)

Granted, my characters haven’t technically gotten that far into Dry Top, but if they did find Omadd’s Machine and discover its purpose and history, they’d probably avoid it.

We all know what happened to the first person who went into the machine. She went on a crazy rampage across most of known Tyria and destroyed a major bastion of commerce and trade before being put down. My cast of citizens and champions don’t want to become the second Scarlet Briar (or third, or fourth, depending upon how many people have used it since they discovered it). I’d think most people who were not immediately intrigued by the machine would probably want to stay away for the same reason.

As far as I am concerned, my characters will only ever act as an unknown third party in a story sequence, if they participate in the LS at all. Sure, my elementalist may have the the story done, and I may even do the LS achievements on her – but when it comes to RP, she hasn’t participated in any of it. If you asked her about Rox, Braham, Taimi, Marjory, or Kasmeer, she’d say “Who?” and then get all confused. She’s just a traveller with a mission and has never met those five before.

Keyce.8137:

Granted, my characters haven’t technically gotten that far into Dry Top, but if they did find Omadd’s Machine and discover its purpose and history, they’d probably avoid it.

We all know what happened to the first person who went into the machine. She went on a crazy rampage across most of known Tyria and destroyed a major bastion of commerce and trade before being put down. My cast of citizens and champions don’t want to become the second Scarlet Briar (or third, or fourth, depending upon how many people have used it since they discovered it). I’d think most people who were not immediately intrigued by the machine would probably want to stay away for the same reason.

As far as I am concerned, my characters will only ever act as an unknown third party in a story sequence, if they participate in the LS at all. Sure, my elementalist may have the the story done, and I may even do the LS achievements on her – but when it comes to RP, she hasn’t participated in any of it. If you asked her about Rox, Braham, Taimi, Marjory, or Kasmeer, she’d say “Who?” and then get all confused. She’s just a traveller with a mission and has never met those five before.

technically the “first person” died :P scarlet was just another in a line of test subjects for the machine.

BrunoBRS.5178:

though going by my contact with a certain RPer yesterday, they dismiss stuff such as “lore” and “logic” in order to fit their weird story. i pointed out to them that sylvaris don’t have surnames,
…sure.

Sylvari can give themselves surnames. It’s not common, but I don’t see why it’s viewed as not possible. “Laranthir of the wild” is like that.

Of course, I think it’s very, very foolish to instantly label everybody like that, or assume the majority will belike that.

I RP in GW2 sometimes, I make my characters stories and backstories, though often I don’t randomly RP with people as I’m not on a server with a lot of RPers, and sometimes it feels awkward.

Kalavier.1097:

BrunoBRS.5178:

though going by my contact with a certain RPer yesterday, they dismiss stuff such as “lore” and “logic” in order to fit their weird story. i pointed out to them that sylvaris don’t have surnames,
…sure.

Sylvari can give themselves surnames. It’s not common, but I don’t see why it’s viewed as not possible. “Laranthir of the wild” is like that.

Of course, I think it’s very, very foolish to instantly label everybody like that, or assume the majority will belike that.

I RP in GW2 sometimes, I make my characters stories and backstories, though often I don’t randomly RP with people as I’m not on a server with a lot of RPers, and sometimes it feels awkward.

“of the wild” is more of a title, but the point was more the “adopted as a child” part (given that the only sylvari children are the ones in the grove’s loading screen). and while i might have painted too broad a stroke there, i find it very frequent that a player would rather bend the lore to their character than the other way around.

that said, as a fan of the traditional, pen and paper RPGs, i do find coming up with backstories for characters, and even progression/story arcs for them, pretty entertaining. i can’t bring myself to randomly RP with strangers though, partly because you never know how deep into it they are (and if they’re lore-benders), partly because i think it’s silly and loses its fun if you don’t have absolutely everyone into it and on the same page (meaning it’s virtually impossible on an MMO).

Maybe a silly question by a light RP’er mostly on my own account… so LS is basically part of my RP… Why don’t you treat the machine as it is presented in the actual world of Tyria? And with that I obviously mean that you can not interact with it, so, it doesn’t show a vision… all you have to do then is simply ignore the vision, but you can ‘find’ the machine, speculate on it/research it, but you can not have a vision in it …

Or, if you want to, why not have the same vision? it almost shows the same thing that scarlet saw, the difference possibly because scarlet saw the vision with her being part of it (so her vision includes some of her actions and consequences as they relate to the vision). But as ‘all’ character that play the LS see the same vision, and seem to not be effected by it other than being in awe. Why couldn’t your character see it as well… It is as if you can’t be that ‘special snowflake’ because everybody is, but then you can’t experience what everybody does because ‘you are a special RP snowflake?’

Another way I thought of to include knowledge of it, is to consider a possible link between an other one of your characters (that did do the LS), or as a group acknowledge a link to such a character. And have you character or your group ‘be informed’ about certain affairs. Similar to how you as a player (and or You and the Biconics) seem to be informed by this E…

Or a combination of these, f/e you are informed about the vision and details about Q. you go there yourself, but find the machine inoperable… Or perhaps some NPC in town overheard some adventurers talk about a machine and ‘what the vision means’ as they seem to leave DryTop to the West… or, you name it…

To me it feels like the machine is so much part of the whole story line that it would be a shame to omit it from your own storyline, and it would be hard to just ignore a part of the map just because you know something about the location that your character can’t know, or wouldn’t know in relation to RP’ing. As can be seen above, I would have worked with it, or at least acknowledged it as a part of the world, as it is presented in said world, an inoperable impressive piece of technology…

ps. Obviously you can’t see beyond the vision and make up your own stuff, or have consequences that apparently our LS characters also didn’t have, nor can you (for now) assume it’s part of a recording… So all you have to do then is to acknowledge that once you stare that dragon in the eye, you break free, get removed… it’s easier though to just see it as it is in the actual world, inoperable, but clearly there in front of your face…

Scarlet was in the machine for days, players were not.

Kalavier.1097:

Scarlet was in the machine for days, players were not.

no she wasn’t

Jawbreaker.5968:

I wanted to discuss with anet and fellow rpers about Omadd’s machine existing inside the main map of Tyria, and how it should/should not be addressed by characters ICly…

…Okay, must resist head canon. Let’s start discussing how it should be treated ICly and hopefully a dev can help, because it’s going to be annoying trying to ignore something that’s clearly in the main world.

I’m an RPer on the TC server. Let’s see if I can help clear things up!

There is an unspoken “Anti-Snowflake Rule” on the TC server. A “snowflake” in GW2 RP terms is a RPer who creates a character whose storyline follows the PS / LS exactly without any deviations. In the eyes of the community, this is considered bad form because it expresses lack of creativity on the part of the RPer.

Some of us are of the opinion that the Fair Use Rule should apply to PS / LS. Nolo.com, a law website, defines Fair Use in this way:

“Under the “fair use” rule of copyright law, an author may make limited use of another author’s work without asking permission. "

You can read more about the Fair Use definition right here: http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/fair-use-rule-copyright-material-30100.html

Now here is my personal opinion (as an RPer):

Anything that happens in GW2’s open world is fair game for RP (including Omadd’s machine). World events can affect characters in zillions of different ways.

Using the NPCs for your character’s profile or for an RP campaign is a sticky subject and a grey area. The same goes for using information from the story instances. When it comes to this stuff, use common sense. For Example: If you play Sylvari, it makes sense that your character would know Trahearne because he is an elder brother to every PC salad. If your character is not Sylvari, you would have to come up with a very, very convincing explanation for why and how your character personally knows Trahearne. If your story isn’t convincing at all, alot of RPers won’t Rp with that particular character.

Keep in mind that not everyone in the RP community shares these opinions including some RP guilds. If your not sure if you should use references to PS/LS then ask permission from the RP group that you’re involved in.

Due to the lack of in-game moderation, the use of PS / LS references can cause one to become the target of elitist RPers and lore police. This is especially true for the Tarnished Coast server.

Be prepared to use your block list if an RPer starts bullying you via whispers in-game. I was subjected to these type of players during the Battle of Lion’s Arch because I tried to organized an in-game RP event that involved dynamic (or mobile) Rp while working on the meta. Many of these lore policemen never RPed with me before and they bashed the event before knowing all the details. I still managed to pull off my event in secret with other Random RPers. Some of the non-RP gamers saw what we were doing and wanted in on the action. At the end of Battle of Lion’s Arch, I got so many thank you mails and whispers from regular gamers because I helped to bring life to the event.

If you are an RPer from the Tarnished Coast server and see me on the map, feel free to interact with my characters at any time. If I’m too busy atm, I’ll whisper you. Most of the time, I’m open to random RP (esp. stuff that is related to the Living Story). I play two Sylvari characters:

(1) Lapis N. Lazuli — His profile can be found here: http://www.guildwars2roleplayers.com/home/m/2737230/viewthread/14016844-tc-lapis-n-lazuli-wip

(2) Sweet Lazuli — Her profile can be found here: http://www.guildwars2roleplayers.com/home/m/2737230/viewthread/10233986-tc-sweet-lazuli-wip

FYI — Lapis’s profile does reference the events in LS. If you need to ideas on how to integrate the current events into your character’s profile, feel free to check out his profile. Lazuli, his wife, is also used for LS-related RP. She hasn’t been affected as much by the world events, but she is interested in studying those vines. The Mordie vines seem so similar to the stuff found in TA and the Nightmare Tower!

Kalavier.1097:

Scarlet was in the machine for days, players were not.

I"ve heard people mention this to me recently. Could you please cite your sources? I’ve never seen anything in-game that says that Scarlet was in Omadd’s machine for several days.

Taken from the short story “What Scarlet Saw”:

“Professor Omadd, Headmaster Emeritus of the College of Synergetics, anxiously twisted his ear as he waited for the sylvari woman to wake. She had been thrashing violently in the isolation module for days now, crying out random syllables and howling in…pain? Ecstasy? Omadd wasn’t sure. Even a genius of his caliber could only guess what was happening inside that leafy green head.”

Now, I’ll grant that this “isolation module” may not necessarily have been the mind-opening machine itself, but the later paragraphs do suggest that it is the same machine.

Zaxares.5419:

Taken from the short story “What Scarlet Saw”:

“Professor Omadd, Headmaster Emeritus of the College of Synergetics, anxiously twisted his ear as he waited for the sylvari woman to wake. She had been thrashing violently in the isolation module for days now, crying out random syllables and howling in…pain? Ecstasy? Omadd wasn’t sure. Even a genius of his caliber could only guess what was happening inside that leafy green head.”

Now, I’ll grant that this “isolation module” may not necessarily have been the mind-opening machine itself, but the later paragraphs do suggest that it is the same machine.

Isolation module to me would mean the table she was strapped to, or was simply his name for the machine.

But yes, the quote above is the source. She spent days within the machine and in the vision, us players did not even come close to that.

Kalavier.1097:

Zaxares.5419:

Taken from the short story “What Scarlet Saw”:

“Professor Omadd, Headmaster Emeritus of the College of Synergetics, anxiously twisted his ear as he waited for the sylvari woman to wake. She had been thrashing violently in the isolation module for days now, crying out random syllables and howling in…pain? Ecstasy? Omadd wasn’t sure. Even a genius of his caliber could only guess what was happening inside that leafy green head.”

Now, I’ll grant that this “isolation module” may not necessarily have been the mind-opening machine itself, but the later paragraphs do suggest that it is the same machine.

Isolation module to me would mean the table she was strapped to, or was simply his name for the machine.

But yes, the quote above is the source. She spent days within the machine and in the vision, us players did not even come close to that.

the machine does have a bed-like thing where a person could be strapped, so it might be the actual machine. probably is, since when she wakes up, she “steps out of the machine”.

kta.6502:

Jawbreaker.5968:

I wanted to discuss with anet and fellow rpers about Omadd’s machine existing inside the main map of Tyria, and how it should/should not be addressed by characters ICly…

…Okay, must resist head canon. Let’s start discussing how it should be treated ICly and hopefully a dev can help, because it’s going to be annoying trying to ignore something that’s clearly in the main world.

I’m an RPer on the TC server. Let’s see if I can help clear things up!

There is an unspoken “Anti-Snowflake Rule” on the TC server. A “snowflake” in GW2 RP terms is a RPer who creates a character whose storyline follows the PS / LS exactly without any deviations. In the eyes of the community, this is considered bad form because it expresses lack of creativity on the part of the RPer.

Some of us are of the opinion that the Fair Use Rule should apply to PS / LS. Nolo.com, a law website, defines Fair Use in this way:

“Under the “fair use” rule of copyright law, an author may make limited use of another author’s work without asking permission. "

You can read more about the Fair Use definition right here: http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/fair-use-rule-copyright-material-30100.html

Now here is my personal opinion (as an RPer):

Anything that happens in GW2’s open world is fair game for RP (including Omadd’s machine). World events can affect characters in zillions of different ways.

Using the NPCs for your character’s profile or for an RP campaign is a sticky subject and a grey area. The same goes for using information from the story instances. When it comes to this stuff, use common sense. For Example: If you play Sylvari, it makes sense that your character would know Trahearne because he is an elder brother to every PC salad. If your character is not Sylvari, you would have to come up with a very, very convincing explanation for why and how your character personally knows Trahearne. If your story isn’t convincing at all, alot of RPers won’t Rp with that particular character.

Keep in mind that not everyone in the RP community shares these opinions including some RP guilds. If your not sure if you should use references to PS/LS then ask permission from the RP group that you’re involved in.

Due to the lack of in-game moderation, the use of PS / LS references can cause one to become the target of elitist RPers and lore police. This is especially true for the Tarnished Coast server.

Be prepared to use your block list if an RPer starts bullying you via whispers in-game. I was subjected to these type of players during the Battle of Lion’s Arch because I tried to organized an in-game RP event that involved dynamic (or mobile) Rp while working on the meta. Many of these lore policemen never RPed with me before and they bashed the event before knowing all the details. I still managed to pull off my event in secret with other Random RPers. Some of the non-RP gamers saw what we were doing and wanted in on the action. At the end of Battle of Lion’s Arch, I got so many thank you mails and whispers from regular gamers because I helped to bring life to the event.

If you are an RPer from the Tarnished Coast server and see me on the map, feel free to interact with my characters at any time. If I’m too busy atm, I’ll whisper you. Most of the time, I’m open to random RP (esp. stuff that is related to the Living Story). I play two Sylvari characters:

(1) Lapis N. Lazuli — His profile can be found here: http://www.guildwars2roleplayers.com/home/m/2737230/viewthread/14016844-tc-lapis-n-lazuli-wip

(2) Sweet Lazuli — Her profile can be found here: http://www.guildwars2roleplayers.com/home/m/2737230/viewthread/10233986-tc-sweet-lazuli-wip

FYI — Lapis’s profile does reference the events in LS. If you need to ideas on how to integrate the current events into your character’s profile, feel free to check out his profile. Lazuli, his wife, is also used for LS-related RP. She hasn’t been affected as much by the world events, but she is interested in studying those vines. The Mordie vines seem so similar to the stuff found in TA and the Nightmare Tower!

Thank you for this. This is kinda what I try to do as well. You weren’t in RPCD guild were you?

BrunoBRS.5178:

…though going by my contact with a certain RPer yesterday, they dismiss stuff such as “lore” and “logic” in order to fit their weird story. i pointed out to them that sylvaris don’t have surnames, they got mad that i didn’t know the backstory, and that when the sylvari was a child it got adopted by a family of humans.

…sure.

#BlameNCSoft

NCSoft pushed this game out the door before GW2’s lore was solidfied.

The lore problems with this game is the main reason I don’t run RP campaigns in my guild. GW2 RPers have too many different interpretations of the current lore. I recently was told by another RPer that the Dreamer and Nightmare Sylvari aren’t related. I said, “To me, all Pale Tree sylvari are related genetically. They all have the same mother. The major difference between Dreamers & Courtiers is their ideology.” When the other person disagreed with me, I just let the conversation drop. I hate getting into lore arguments. Debating over the canon is divisive. It also sucks the fun out of the game for me. I log on to GW2 just to have fun. I’m not here to argue. .

GW lore isn’t as comprehensive as WoW’s& Wildstar’s stuff. It’s short bits and pieces everywhere. In WoW, the lore only covers the major events in Azaroth in detail. Same with WS. I remember when my characters would discovered books in-game that described important events in both WoW and WS. If there was any confusion over lore, I would refer people to the in-game books.

In GW2, if I click on a book in the Priory library, I only get a summary of the book’s contents. There are no books with tons of details for the hardcore lore lovers who do take the time to read the stuff over lunch . Those summaries just leave alot of lore gaps and create confused RPers over time.

One of the best examples is the Mordremoth controversy. So.. Anet, how do our non-Asura PCs know about Mordie? Don’t worry. Take your time. I’ll wait for the answer. In the meantime, I’ll just come up with my own explanation for RP purposes. I can always retcon if my idea doesn’t match with GW2’s lore.

Granted things like “Are nightmare sylvari and dreamer sylvari related or not” have been perfectly addressed by the lore and even in-game campaigns, hell there is a whole dungeon about it.

Sometimes it’s not NCSoft. Sometimes it’s people just not caring to learn before spouting.

Yumiko Ishida.3769:

Thank you for this. This is kinda what I try to do as well. You weren’t in RPCD guild were you?

You’re welcome! No, I’m not in RPcd. I’m still in Apocalyptic Armageddon [AARM].

kta.6502:

BrunoBRS.5178:

…though going by my contact with a certain RPer yesterday, they dismiss stuff such as “lore” and “logic” in order to fit their weird story. i pointed out to them that sylvaris don’t have surnames, they got mad that i didn’t know the backstory, and that when the sylvari was a child it got adopted by a family of humans.

…sure.

#BlameNCSoft

NCSoft pushed this game out the door before GW2’s lore was solidfied.

The lore problems with this game is the main reason I don’t run RP campaigns in my guild. GW2 RPers have too many different interpretations of the current lore. I recently was told by another Sylvari RPer that the Dreamer and Nightmare Sylvari aren’t related. I said, “To me, all Pale Tree sylvari are related genetically. They all have the same mother. The major difference between Dreamers & Courtiers is their ideology.” When the other person disagreed with me, I just let the conversation drop. I hate getting into lore arguments. Debating over the canon is divisive. It also sucks the fun out of the game for me. I log on to GW2 just to have fun. I’m not here to argue. .

GW lore isn’t as comprehensive as WoW’s& Wildstar’s stuff. It’s short bits and pieces everywhere. In WoW, the lore only covers the major events in Azaroth in detail. Same with WS. I remember when my characters would discovered books in-game that described important events in both WoW and WS. If there was any confusion over lore, I would refer people to the in-game books.

In GW2, if I click on a book in the Priory library, I only get a summary of the book’s contents. There are no books with tons of details for the hardcore lore lovers who do take the time to read the stuff over lunch . Those summaries just leave alot of lore gaps and create confused RPers over time.

One of the best examples is the Mordremoth controversy. So.. Anet, how do our non-Asura PCs know about Mordie? Don’t worry. Take your time. I’ll wait for the answer. In the meantime, I’ll just come up with my own explanation for RP purposes. I can always retcon if my idea doesn’t match with GW2’s lore.

uuh… maybe if people didn’t assume so much, and instead took their time to learn the lore, these inconsistencies wouldn’t be there. heck, even on this forums there are certain “theorists” (i won’t call out names) that just throw whatever they want and treat it as canon lore. what’s worse, that phony lore starts being treated as canon by other uninformed people.

it’s not NCSoft’s fault if the community is more interested in their own versions of the events than what we really know.

Anmida.4058:

Granted things like “Are nightmare sylvari and dreamer sylvari related or not” have been perfectly addressed by the lore and even in-game campaigns, hell there is a whole dungeon about it.

Sometimes it’s not NCSoft. Sometimes it’s people just not caring to learn before spouting.

^ this.

Some details ARE covered in lore, people just never bother to read up.

I could just say that I encountered this box thingy and because I was tired I went to sleep in it and then I had a dream of weird stuff happening around me.