Guild Wars 2

Or, “The Skritt-to-Skritt Interference Effect.”

According to an official source:

No one really knows how the skritt hive-like intelligence works. The most likely theory is that the skritt simply communicate so rapidly that, when together, they can vet their ideas and choose the best one within seconds, rather than going with whatever plan each individual first conceived. Certainly, the skritt have exceptionally sharp auditory skills. They can communicate with one another almost instantly if they are within earshot. If you meet one skritt alone, he might not appear particularly intelligent, but if you meet several, they can discuss their surroundings in amazingly swift, almost ultrasonic chirrups and chitters, and are able to process information and make more intelligent decisions. Therefore, the skritt seem less intelligent in small groups and more intelligent when they gather in larger ones. Because of this, the skritt in their scratches are the most intelligent—and possibly the most dangerous. Even the bravest asura hesitate to attack a hollow when it is filled with skritt.

It would seem that the apparent intelligence of skritt is directly proportional to the number of skritt in close proximity. Most of the theories I’ve seen attempting to explain this phenomenon focus on the idea of high-speed subsonic/ultrasonic inter-skritt communication. Theorists say that because information flows so rapidly amongst the skritt, they’re able to choose the “best” of all of the almost-randomly generated ideas.

However, I’m skeptical of this claim for the following reasons:

• From the 1980s to the present day, the growing network of computers known as the Internet (formerly the “World Wide Web”) led to a dramatic increase in the ease of communication and distribution of ideas among humans, similar in many ways to the proposed skritt intelligence model.
• Over the past two decades, humans (particularly those with access to the Internet, with some exceptions) have seemed to become increasingly stupid. See Exhibit A.
• While Srii the asura and others have observed that skritt actually seem to be more intelligent en masse than they are individually, this behavior seems to be unique to the skritt, and when other races collaborate intellectually, they seem to follow the opposite pattern. Rapid communication appears to allow insufficient time for proper evaluation of ideas, and such a flood of information therefore results in a deterioration of judgment.
• When many non-skritt individuals converge to discuss important matters in times of stress, the result is often a “mob mentality” that is far less than civilized; the same individuals may see an increase in judgment skills when given time to consider the information and choices, but the sense of urgency instilled by the crowd can overwhelm sound judgment. The skritt, however, encounter an increase in civilized behaviors, making rapid communication a less attractive hypothesis.

In summary, it seems possible that the “skritt intelligence multiplier effect” is less a function of communication and rapid exchange of information, and more of a biophysical or biochemical response. For instance, perhaps the subsonic/ultrasonic pulsations aren’t a means of communication, but rather a facilitator and a catalyst for intellectual performance. When multiple skritt congregate, these pulsations undergo a sort of constructive interference that results in an enhanced mental state for all affected individuals in range.

I offer this as one example of a novel theory on skritt intelligence. Does anyone else have an alternative to the popular “they can access tons of information therefore they’re smarter” school of thought (no pun intended)?

While we can only go on information from the game itself, I would give the asura more credit as scientists. It’s known that they do occasionally – or at least did in the past – experiment on skritt, so I figure to understand the source of the “hive intelligence” they would have had several skritt in close proximity while making audio communication impossible. If the skritt displayed the same level of intelligence as before it would suggest a link in that regard.

Also: Most of your points take humans as example – understandable since we are the only sentient species we know – but what applies to humans doesn’t necessarily apply to skritt, as you say yourself.
Yes, having too little time to process a flood of information deteriorates judgement in humans; skritt on the other hands communicate so fast that there is more than enough time to evaluate different outcomes.
The mob mentality is a result of human psyche, which means it applies in no way to the minds of skritt.

NinjaChris.9340:

Yes, having too little time to process a flood of information deteriorates judgement in humans; skritt on the other hands communicate so fast that there is more than enough time to evaluate different outcomes.

But my point was that faster communication allows less time to evaluate different outcomes, not more, because it generates more outcomes to evaluate.

As another point that I meant to include in my initial post, there was a dialog between an asura and a skritt in the cave full of chaos energy. The asura tried to convince the skritt that the chaos magic was causing bad things to happen, and therefore they should move away from it. The skritt said something along the lines of, “Always cause and effect with you people. You asura think you’re so smart, but you’re not skritt-smart.” Then he said, “Too many lines, not enough angles!”
Something about that made me think there’s more to it than gibberish. I think the skritt process logic differently. However, in trying to return to the topic, I’ll say this: I think maybe part of the “skritt communication” thing is due to their short attention spans. If one skritt thinks (perhaps “talks,” or “broadcasts”) about a topic for five seconds and then gets distracted, but another skritt picks it up for five seconds and does the same, and so on… Each skritt in the chain could be adding another “angle” and, possibly, steering closer to a solution when a more direct line of thought wouldn’t suffice.

But basically, I found the theory that “they can communicate their ideas faster and therefore they’re better at picking out the best ones” to be woefully insufficient, and I wanted to see if anyone else felt that way. It seems to me that having more data to sift through wouldn’t necessarily make the relevant bits easier to spot, but again, I’m thinking like a human. Maybe I should just give up on trying to understand them without breaking my brain.

Well, I guess we can agree though, that the source of skritt intelligence is audio based. Since nobody can actually understand the ultrasonic skritt language, we’ll have to wait for the skritt themselves to open up, or the asura to do some more testing.

There is a skritt NPC that sais asura thoughts are too “linear”. That backs up the multiple view theory.

Dustfinger.9510:

There is a skritt NPC that sais asura thoughts are too “linear”. That backs up the multiple view theory.

To be fair, that skritt’s argument was that chaos refuse that turns skritt inside out is a good thing to have. That doesn’t strike me as one of the outstanding examples of the skritt race’s potential intelligence.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Dustfinger.9510:

There is a skritt NPC that sais asura thoughts are too “linear”. That backs up the multiple view theory.

To be fair, that skritt’s argument was that chaos refuse that turns skritt inside out is a good thing to have. That doesn’t strike me as one of the outstanding examples of the skritt race’s potential intelligence.

Yeah; if anything these Skritt at the Anthill are the ‘worst’ ones to quote because they’ve been corrupted by the chaotic residue. That’s like an Asura telling a Son of Svanir that they should stay away from that black ice because it’s dangerous. The intelligence of the NPC is completely compromised once they’ve been corrupted. That is, they can be extremely bright, but still do things that are hazardous to their health.

Sorry to hijack the thread a little, but what’s particularly interesting to me is that since the Thaumanova fractal, we know that the “chaos magic” the Inquest were experimenting with there was actually “dragon magic”. That suggests that the Chaos Beasts are simply corrupted Skritt, minions of an hitherto unknown Elder Dragon. If so, what domain might it have control over?

I don’t think that skritt was corrupted. Atleast it didn’t have the corrupted green aura. So it would be no more corrupted than the asura next to it. But that wasn’t an example of their intelligence, it was an indication of how they think. Which, I think is a relevant point.

Dustfinger.9510:

I don’t think that skritt was corrupted. Atleast it didn’t have the corrupted green aura. So it would be no more corrupted than the asura next to it. But that wasn’t an example of their intelligence, it was an indication of how they think. Which, I think is a relevant point.

I agree, that quote is quite important. I have a lot of thoughts brewing right now. I have to jot things down and refine the idea, then I’ll post details

Dustfinger.9510:

I don’t think that skritt was corrupted. Atleast it didn’t have the corrupted green aura. So it would be no more corrupted than the asura next to it. But that wasn’t an example of their intelligence, it was an indication of how they think. Which, I think is a relevant point.

Yeah, I’m with you on this one. There’s another quote that I really liked, too, if I can find it…

(Some time later…)
Ah, here it is:
From Help the skritt defend Skrittsburgh East End:

Our sentries bibble-babble always the story of you coming to our cave. One say you carry fifty wounded skritt tied to your head as you jumped over lava. One say you break a fire-troll over your knee and used its pebbles for gunpowder. I know not if these deeds are real, but to us, they are true. Not the same, real and true. True you feel inside. Always follow what is true.

—Sentry-skritt Bordekka

It may not give us any new revelations of the inner workings of their thought processes, but to me, it supports the “too many lines, not enough angles” philosophy. Asura (among others) think in more of a monochrome than do the skritt. The skritt even go so far as to distinguish between “real” and “true.”

That’s deep, fellas.

That’s deep.

NinjaChris.9340:

Also: Most of your points take humans as example – understandable since we are the only sentient species we know – but what applies to humans doesn’t necessarily apply to skritt, as you say yourself.

[OOC]
Remember that the whole concept of the skritt race was conceived by humans, and those humans added them to the game. It’s difficult for humans to invent sentient beings whose thought processes are alien to our own, because when we try to imagine how they would think, any result we can come up with will be based on our own thought processes and therefore inherently not alien to our own thought processes. In order to succeed at such a task, we have to be intentionally irrational (in a way), which can easily be too confusing or random to be interesting.

Real-life examples can be based on non-human thought processes, too, though research on those is still lagging behind the human model. What we know is that more complex brains are more susceptible to mob-style aggression— young dolphin males sometimes form gangs to kitten females, groups of chimps have gang wars, etc. In fact, according to researchers, everyone becomes easier to understand when you think of people as animals. Each of us (human, “animal,” etc.) is a conscious individual following a behavioral pattern appropriate for our species.

In order to understand the skritt, we have to relate them to what we know. Because if we can only relate them to what we don’t know, then we’ll never come to understand them.
[/OOC]

RoyHarmon.5398:

It may not give us any new revelations of the inner workings of their thought processes, but to me, it supports the “too many lines, not enough angles” philosophy. Asura (among others) think in more of a monochrome than do the skritt. The skritt even go so far as to distinguish between “real” and “true.”

That’s deep, fellas.

That’s deep.

Now that you put it that way, it is pretty deep. Really deep as I think more on it. And I think it does at least hint to a deeper insight into their thought process with the “not enough angles” aspect.

My main gripe with the whole extra-fast subsonic communication thing is the fact that skritt are still talking to each other occasionally in a way that we understand them, usually in a dumbed down level in a small group, or more civilized in the middle of Skrittsburg. If they can communicate concepts and ideas and plans in a subsonic level and speed, why are they even talking to each other like we do, with words of the common tongue?

I figure skritt intelligence much like the geth from Mass Effect. The geth is a race of synthetic servants with highly efficient networking abilities. They have two levels of programs, low level, and high level. Low level programs govern the synthetic platforms’ functions, like we have that 90% ‘unused’ part of our human brain that governs reflex actions, heartbeat, processing what information the 5 senses give, managing muscle movements to the smallest level and so on. High level programs are much more sophysticated and govern the actual interaction with the outside world. Analising, conceptualising, planning, calculating, pretty much everything that makes them sentient and intelligent. Take the high level programs as the 10% of the human brain that we use, the part that does the thinking, the part that reads and understands these words.

Now, the geth’s source of higher intelligence was much like the skritt’s. The more geth in close proximity, the more networking power, the more brains. Why? With the geth, it was that the simpler low-level programs could be synchronised and shared between platforms. With that, much of the geth’s computing and processing power was freed up and could be used on high-level programs instead, making each individual geth smarter. They shared the low-level processes, and high-level programs of each platforms ran faster and more efficiently.

Its like if we would subconsciously adapt the reflex actions of our bodies from those in the same room, just as they do the same. We breath the same amount of air and at the same pace, our hearts beat the same way. As much bodily functions become synchronised as possible. Subconscious routines communicate between us, still subconsciously. The 90% of these functions shrinks to 70%, and the 10% of actual thinking and intelligence grows to 30%. We are not aware of the communication between our subconscious minds, it just makes us smarter when we are close to each other.

I figure this could be how the skritt mind works. Dont know if this development is magical or biological in their evolution. Or somewhere in between.

“They also assume that you have the ability to keep up with their fast-paced idea transfer, and will speak rapidly and without specifics—because another skritt would simply understand without needing those details.” http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Those_Sneaky,_Sneaky_Skritt

So it seem to be as you described lakdav, but those low level programs are expressd and transferred vocally. maybe like humans, skritt have two sets of vocal cords but unlike humans they can work independently of each other.

I actually feel like its more like a network of CPUs. Alone the processor is not as fast as when networked with others. Maybe its less conceptualizing and more simple problem solving done quickly, like farming bitcoins. I’m just thinking if it encompasses more than that, they’d likely have more elaborate dwellings etc where highly concentrated. So far all I’ve seen are giant junk piles.

lakdav.3694:

snip

I’ve been thinking about it in a very similar way.

lakdav.3694:

My main gripe with the whole extra-fast subsonic communication thing is the fact that skritt are still talking to each other occasionally in a way that we understand them, usually in a dumbed down level in a small group, or more civilized in the middle of Skrittsburg. If they can communicate concepts and ideas and plans in a subsonic level and speed, why are they even talking to each other like we do, with words of the common tongue?

That’s a great point, and I’m humbled to have not thought of it myself. Anything they would want to say would already have been said more quickly over the high-speed inter-skritt network, in theory. A human analogy may be difficult here, but I like a challenge!
We can’t really compare this to sending a letter through “snail mail” rather than email, because there are some (at least mostly) valid reasons to send a paper copy of a document. Think carefully before you request that any court summons be sent to you via email, for instance. (Fortunately, we can save a PDF copy of that guide on what to do in the event of an extended power failure, so we don’t have to worry about keeping backup copies of important documents.)
It’s not really the difference between sending a text vs. email, either. Text messages are generally much shorter for most people.
I think that in practice, it’s more like the difference between a dial-up modem and a gigabit LAN. (This gives the extra bonus of adding the words “local area” to the analogy, which seems apt.) Why in the world would you call up another computer on your network over V.92 when you could do exactly the same thing, whatever it was, about 200,000 times faster? (Don’t be cute and say “fax,” because that could totally be sent as a PDF email attachment.)

This is totally inconsistent. The only excuse I can even think of (albeit with my non-skritt brain) is that they like to hear their own voices. However, I don’t think that’s the motivator when a skritt points at me and shouts, “Quick, kill it!” In fact, I can’t think of anything gained by such a statement. Anything it might communicate to other skritt should already be known to them over the Skrittnet, and shouting at me like that abandons any element of surprise they may have gained.

Actually, why would the skritt have voices at all? If the inaudible communication channel is so high and mighty (that’s the technical term, I assure you), then their audible voices would only be used for non-skritt interfacing. As I understand it, they only interacted with the asura until fairly recently, and those encounters were generally unfriendly. Their vocal cords should be almost vestigial by now. Perhaps they were merely atrophied, and they quickly redeveloped when other races got involved.

… like we have that 90% ‘unused’ part of our human brain that governs reflex actions, heartbeat, processing what information the 5 senses give, managing muscle movements to the smallest level and so on. High level programs are much more sophysticated and govern the actual interaction with the outside world. Analising, conceptualising, planning, calculating, pretty much everything that makes them sentient and intelligent. Take the high level programs as the 10% of the human brain that we use, the part that does the thinking, the part that reads and understands these words.
[…]
Its like if we would subconsciously adapt the reflex actions of our bodies from those in the same room, just as they do the same. We breath the same amount of air and at the same pace, our hearts beat the same way. As much bodily functions become synchronised as possible. Subconscious routines communicate between us, still subconsciously. The 90% of these functions shrinks to 70%, and the 10% of actual thinking and intelligence grows to 30%. We are not aware of the communication between our subconscious minds, it just makes us smarter when we are close to each other.

According to my neuroanatomy professor in medical school, the whole “90% unused” thing is a myth. What most folks consider “unused” is actually the white matter of the brain. Gray matter makes up most of the cerebral cortex, and most of the thinking goes on there. It’s gray(ish) because it has a high density of neuronal cell bodies, relative to the axons that make up the white matter. Those axons connect to other parts of the brain, carrying signals to and from the gray matter.

Basically, it would be like someone saying “90% of the Internet’s physical structure is unused,” when they’re actually referring to the cables connecting the computers themselves. Sure, those ethernet cables and copper lines aren’t doing a lot of computing, but that doesn’t mean they’re not being used for the purpose that inspired their design.

“They also assume that you have the ability to keep up with their fast-paced idea transfer, and will speak rapidly and without specifics—because another skritt would simply understand without needing those details.”

I can see one a possibility for the need for normal speech. Skritt may describe details about their environment almost without consciously thinking about it. But it may only be descriptions of qualities. So the need for their normal speech may come up when it comes to describing intentions toward and about those details.

e.g.: hi-speed communication might describe an intruder. Big teeth, claws, furry, aggressive. So it would be similar to everyone being tapped in to a surveylance system.

The “normal” communication would come to things like “run away” or “kill it”. Because the other skritt already have the specific details of to go with the generalized directions.

RoyHarmon.5398:

According to my neuroanatomy professor in medical school, the whole “90% unused” thing is a myth. What most folks consider “unused” is actually the white matter of the brain. Gray matter makes up most of the cerebral cortex, and most of the thinking goes on there. It’s gray(ish) because it has a high density of neuronal cell bodies, relative to the axons that make up the white matter. Those axons connect to other parts of the brain, carrying signals to and from the gray matter.

Basically, it would be like someone saying “90% of the Internet’s physical structure is unused,” when they’re actually referring to the cables connecting the computers themselves. Sure, those ethernet cables and copper lines aren’t doing a lot of computing, but that doesn’t mean they’re not being used for the purpose that inspired their design.

That is good to know. Im in no way professional regarding this, and it s always good to learn. However, the main point remains, that is about the geth processing method from Mass Effect possibly being similar to skritt intelligence increase with more skritt in close proximity.

Though of course processing data and basic information flow in a synthetic system must be very different if you want to transfer the idea over to organics like the skritt. I wonder if there is anything a closed off system (like each separate skritt body) processes in the brain (that is not thinking, but more similar to that geth low-level programs) that another body just a few feet away can use, and so would not need to spend thinking power on. If that elusive kind of information could be communicated via the skritt subsonic ‘language’, that could be a viable explanation.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Dustfinger.9510:

There is a skritt NPC that sais asura thoughts are too “linear”. That backs up the multiple view theory.

To be fair, that skritt’s argument was that chaos refuse that turns skritt inside out is a good thing to have. That doesn’t strike me as one of the outstanding examples of the skritt race’s potential intelligence.

You are making at least 2 assumptions that may be false:
1. What is the risk:reward ratio? In animal populations where males keep harems, alpha males often have short, brutish lives before being killed or staving defending their territory. This makes them “stupid” in a way. Males attempting to become alpha males often die trying, making them “stupid.” However, from a population standpoint, the highest mean fitness are those who attempt to become an alpha male because, for the often short period they are alpha males, they have so many offspring.

What are the skritt expecting to get? What are the chances one will die?

2. You are assuming a skritt cares more about its life than what they are attempting to gain. Certainly, the norn and asura races care a lot less about personal safety than they do about their own accomplishments and reputation. If the skritt are content to risk death so long as they gain knowledge/resources/etc., then they are acting intelligently.

For a human example, think of all the charge leaders in battle across human history. Leading a charge in a battle is one of the “stupidest” ideas ever. However, this assumes that the person’s top priority is staying alive. Genghis Khan implemented pension plans, death benefits and sharing spoils with soldier’s families rather than soldiers in order to make them braver. This apparently worked. This suggests that even humans don’t necessarily consider their own lives important compared to social considerations. What was holding them back is what would happen to their families if they died, not their own fears of death.

lakdav.3694:

If they can communicate concepts and ideas and plans in a subsonic level and speed, why are they even talking to each other like we do, with words of the common tongue?

You are assuming that they can communicate the same concepts in both modes of speech. Furthermore, animals that communicate by sound do so extremely frequently when in contact with one another. This may be a form of social grooming (human equivalent is remaining friends or on good terms with neighbors and family). It could be that the ultra-fast communication is not good for social grooming, or is a different kind of social grooming.

Imagine an alien asking, “If humans can rapidly communicate their emotional state to other humans by facial cues and posture cues, why do they ever bother talking about how they feel?”

JohnLShannonhouse.1820:

Imagine an alien asking, “If humans can rapidly communicate their emotional state to other humans by facial cues and posture cues, why do they ever bother talking about how they feel?”

wow. This is a pretty good analogy that I hadn’t thought of. Good job.