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(edited by Aethelbert.1497)
On 'Destiny's Orphans' and season's ending
Priory knows about the elder dragons numbering more then 4. They have books mentioning the deep sea dragon, and one Priory member (Also an OoW agent) mentions “five against six” aka, five races, six elder dragons.
Priory knows about the elder dragons numbering more then 4. They have books mentioning the deep sea dragon, and one Priory member (Also an OoW agent) mentions “five against six” aka, five races, six elder dragons.
That’s still not a common knowledge to the most of the Tyrians. If Priory knows something, it doesn’t mean everyone knows it.
And Order of Whispers actually knows more than they talk about, obviously.
I didn’t list them at first just because I simply was more concentrated on the topic, not on the minor details, and the Inquest was the first thing on my mind. Plus, they are likely seen more of them than others.
(edited by Aethelbert.1497)
The datamined ending takes place in the Breachmaker and in Dead End right afterward. You may think that it would have made a more compelling ending, however, that_shaman says what he found was in fact, far cheesier. Since we only have his word to go for it, I wouldn’t doubt it.
Why must someone die? Honestly, I’m sick and tired of all the characters-I-could-care-about dying before I get that chance, and so many have that now I honestly couldn’t give a kitten about GW2 NPCs. Having played the personal story in full thrice, covering each major story decision sans the Ogre racial sympathy, I have seen an overabundance of allied NPC slaughter and I couldn’t give a kitten about any newer ones because “oh, they’re just going to die once I start trying to like them and before I actually can.”
Furthermore, I have read, watched, and played MANY dramatic and compelling stories that didn’t have a single allied death. A friend’s death is not a requirement for character motivation or sorrow.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
The datamined ending takes place in the Breachmaker and in Dead End right afterward. You may think that it would have made a more compelling ending, however, that_shaman says what he found was in fact, far cheesier. Since we only have his word to go for it, I wouldn’t doubt it.
Why must someone die? Honestly, I’m sick and tired of all the characters-I-could-care-about dying before I get that chance, and so many have that now I honestly couldn’t give a kitten about GW2 NPCs. Having played the personal story in full thrice, covering each major story decision sans the Ogre racial sympathy, I have seen an overabundance of allied NPC slaughter and I couldn’t give a kitten about any newer ones because “oh, they’re just going to die once I start trying to like them and before I actually can.”
Furthermore, I have read, watched, and played MANY dramatic and compelling stories that didn’t have a single allied death. A friend’s death is not a requirement for character motivation or sorrow.
Perhaps. If the dialogue or the supposed cutscene was much longer, it could have been less cheesier.
Why must someone die? I do not insist on that. But still, when characters die, the other cast feels not so invincible. The main problem here is that you, as player, understand that nothing could ever happen to your character and living world characters. They are sort of immortal, overcoming everything that stands in their way, be it twenty, fifty, hundred enemies of all sorts, and with that in mind, player may could care less and less. But with the feeling that characters are not that immortal, very human and viewer/player/reader starts to empathize more. But that is only my opinion, you may disagree.
Well, if these stories are so many, why it bothers you so much here, in GW2?
(edited by Aethelbert.1497)
Honestly, I am rather tired of the ‘someone must die’ trope that has apparently become a media standard these days.
It’s one thing if it’s handled like the death of Boromir in the Lord of the Rings… He died a hero, even if he didn’t save Merry and Pippen from the Orcs, and in so doing, he redeemed himself from having succumbed to the temptation of the Ring and trying to forcibly take it from Frodo…
But that’s not how it seems to happen these days.
Lets take the scene on the Breachmaker as an example here… with the alternate ending here…
Marjory, after having taken the brunt of Scarlet’s last, desperate attack, is blasted back and dies. The final fight (we can assume) wouldn’t have been any different… Scarlet is still dead. The short cut scene probably shows Kass crying in grief before the giant drill hits the leylines anyway…
In this case, Jory’s death would have added nothing. We already had reasons to fight Scarlet and not like her, so there is nothing there. She wouldn’t have died saving anyone else. Her death would have been pointless except for no other reason to just make things more ‘edgy’ and ‘dark’…
Personally, I’m glad they didn’t kill her off like that. And while the fate of Lions Arch itself is a rather bitter sweet victory (the place /did/ get destroyed and a /lot/ of people were killed in that bloody blitzkrieg) I’m still glad for the ‘Happy Ending’ that Kass and Jory have…
“If half as many people were half as brave in real life as they were online…
… The human race would never have to worry about be oppressed again.”
I think trolls should have their computers smashed. ’Its all part of the game. U mad bro?’
… The human race would never have to worry about be oppressed again.”
I think trolls should have their computers smashed. ’Its all part of the game. U mad bro?’
Perhaps. If the dialogue or the supposed cutscene was much longer, it could have been less cheesier.
It had nothing to do with length, but the dialogue lines and the plot sequence itself.
Why must someone die? I do not insist on that. But still, when characters die, the other cast feels not so invincible. The main problem here is that you, as player, understand that nothing could ever happen to your character and living world characters. They are sort of immortal, overcoming everything that stands in their way, be it twenty, fifty, hundred enemies of all sorts, and with that in mind, player may could care less and less. But with the feeling that characters are not that immortal, very human and viewer/player/reader starts to empathize more. But that is only my opinion, you may disagree.
The player character will always be immortal in thus kind of gameplay, and will have nothing long-lasting placed upon them. It is a limitation of sorts to the gameplay. The living world characters already got that sense of immortality knocked out of them by nearly dying – as Kasmeer said if you talked to her in LA after doing the instance, until the moment of seeing Marjory lying still she had thought themselves untouchable due to all their successes.
Well, if these stories are so many, why it bothers you so much here, in GW2?
What bothers me isn’t that it is in GW2. Go re-read my post and I spell why it bothers me. It bothers me because people feel it must be done, and that it is done poorly, making you, the player, not care.
If a character dies, the audience should care about the death – be it of a character they hated or loved, they need to feel from it. But when you have every other character dying off throughout the previous story, you stop caring. Make us care about NPCs before killing them off. It has been far too little with far too bland (not really bland, just cannot think of the right word) characters to care about them.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
A visual analogy to character deaths in Guild Wars.
(Bwahaha yes it’s a Megaman-insider but I feel it’s so relevant :p Sums up everything I wanted to post, haha)
It had nothing to do with length, but the dialogue lines and the plot sequence itself.
The player character will always be immortal in thus kind of gameplay, and will have nothing long-lasting placed upon them. It is a limitation of sorts to the gameplay. The living world characters already got that sense of immortality knocked out of them by nearly dying – as Kasmeer said if you talked to her in LA after doing the instance, until the moment of seeing Marjory lying still she had thought themselves untouchable due to all their successes.
What bothers me isn’t that it is in GW2. Go re-read my post and I spell why it bothers me. It bothers me because people feel it must be done, and that it is done poorly, making you, the player, not care.
If a character dies, the audience should care about the death – be it of a character they hated or loved, they need to feel from it. But when you have every other character dying off throughout the previous story, you stop caring. Make us care about NPCs before killing them off. It has been far too little with far too bland (not really bland, just cannot think of the right word) characters to care about them.
In fact, it had to do with lengh. One can’t put some emotion in two phrases, unless there is a brilliant writer behind it, as well as a brilliant (voice)actor.
Captn Obvious to the rescue. Understandable: you think you are the smartest.
You messing it up, really. There is a difference between what you, as a consumer, want to see in this game and what others want. Same goes for you not caring, et cetera.
That’s the very point I have, by the way, that people must care about Marjory’s death, if it ever happens. And that is exactly why it didn’t happened yet.
I think I just showed a perfect case how someone can put emotion into one sentence, let alone “two phrases”.
I fail to see how you get that I think I’m the smartest. But seeing how that’s clearly a made-up conclusion, given that I don’t think I’m the smartest, I don’t think it really matters.
Maybe there’s a difference, but I can say the same towards your statements. Nonetheless, the deaths are indeed meaningless – and if you’ve been around on the forums since release you’d know there’s a sizeable group of people who do like the game who feel that the NPCs die too much in the PS.
And why you said it didn’t happen is why I’m saying it shouldn’t happen still. Or other NPCs who hold some sort of spotlight. The mentors were done great for spotlight NPCs – the number of people who have shown that they cared about it is proof enough – and if you happened to get the right storylines then Tegwen as well (requires an Act with Wisdom sylvari going with the Vigil’s invasion in Orr, better yet if you go Priory and meet Tegwen and Carys, and also go with the baiting the Eye). But those like Tonn and Apatia were killed too soon (and too predictably) to hold any impact.
But when I read the OP, I am not seeing “kill Marjory once people begin to care about her” – I am saying “I hate how the ending played out and wished it was the earlier way, but hopefully this will come to pass in season 2!!!”
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
I would have to agree about the overkill on the meaningless deaths during the PS. It was always kinda disappointing when you know a character was going to die after hearing/reading a couple lines of his/her dialogue. After that, all I was able to think was, “Well… No point in getting attached to you. You’re about to die in a couple of missions.”
If a character’s storyline has evolved to a point and place where their death was understandable? Maybe, but only if it was written well. If not, I’d rather them fade into the background.
A character put into the story just to die? No thank you.
Konig, arrogant? I wouldn’t say that. If anything, I would say he’s very abrupt, especially on lore matters.
The datamined ending takes place in the Breachmaker and in Dead End right afterward. You may think that it would have made a more compelling ending, however, that_shaman says what he found was in fact, far cheesier. Since we only have his word to go for it, I wouldn’t doubt it.
Why must someone die? Honestly, I’m sick and tired of all the characters-I-could-care-about dying before I get that chance, and so many have that now I honestly couldn’t give a kitten about GW2 NPCs. Having played the personal story in full thrice, covering each major story decision sans the Ogre racial sympathy, I have seen an overabundance of allied NPC slaughter and I couldn’t give a kitten about any newer ones because “oh, they’re just going to die once I start trying to like them and before I actually can.”
Furthermore, I have read, watched, and played MANY dramatic and compelling stories that didn’t have a single allied death. A friend’s death is not a requirement for character motivation or sorrow.
What about believably selling a war of attrition against primordial forces and supposedly endless armies? There are two things in particular about Zhaitan (and Jormage and Kralkatorrik) that made the dragon more horrifying and formidable. Every soldier that falls to Zhaitan causes his army to grow bigger. The second is that a fallen ally that then is corrupted fights its former allies. Those are huge components to the dragon’s identity and powers and big pieces of why this fight is so hard for the people of Tyria. You can’t tell that story if you aren’t willing to break a few eggs. It would feel like a children’s cartoon if no-one died (or the only deaths were off-screen or nameless NPCs). The writers would also be underutilising their story potential if they didn’t leverage the fact that fallen allies become new foes, from a tactics point of view it heightens the blow of failure, and from a morale point of view it is horrifying to fight your former comrades.
Compare that to Scarlet who apparently outsmarted all of Tyria for over a year and levelled Tyria’s biggest city, all while failing to kill anyone remotely important (the one notable NPC “she killed” was introduced in a patch shortly before his death and had almost no role to play in Tyria – he was created to die). I think the Personal Story struggled to have lots of emotional weight to its deaths, but it did strongly reinforce the idea that this is a world of conflict, death is real and these NPCs aren’t invincible. In some ways it’s believable that as characters we don’t break down every time an NPC dies, the role of a hero would expose them to lots of death, after a while you become desensitized. I don’t need death as much as it occurred in the Personal Story, but someone who was supposed to be as dangerous as Scarlet really should have wracked up a body count.
For the record, the leaked fake ending was posted and it didn’t seem that cheesy to me (I actually prefer it) but I am fairly confident it was red herring. I believe it was discussed as a possible ending but the writers never would have chosen that path, they favor these characters too much.