Guild Wars 2

So, here’s a thought. The silence of the human gods has been a major problem for the humans of Tyria; Their dominance was mostly assured by the blessings of the gods, and as they grew more silent, the humans became easier for the other races to handle. I’ve been considering this for a while, and realized that it’s only since the dragons have been rising that they’ve gone quiet, right? Let’s take a look at Arah, the City of the Gods. Holy land for all humans, this is where the entire Tyrian pantheon lived until the Exodus. Then Abaddon screwed things up and they decided to leave.

Now, Zhaitan is sitting in Arah, and getting ready to eat the world. The thing is, the Elder Dragons eat magic. It occurs to me that this is what divine connection is. For example, Josir of the Durmand Priory, a guy you meet in the human storyline, states that the priory studies all magic, both arcane and divine. But we don’t have any divine magic now; I certainly wouldn’t call a charr guardian drawing from the gods when they are steadfastly on the point of “If it’s powerful, I wanna try killing it.” rather than worshipping things.

So, under this theory the gods are essentially beings of magic itself, perhaps being advanced human mages (in a sense. No way Grenth, with the animal skull for a head, is entirely human) that maintain their connection to Tyria through their own use of magic. The problem here, however, is that with the EDs eating magic, any attempt they have made to contact Tyria is being swallowed up, particularly because Zhaitan is sitting on the seat of the place where they’d have the easiest time making a connection.

Does anybody have further evidence to either prove or refute this concept? I’ll admit, I’m not a loremaster like I know some people are, but this makes sense to me.

Also, if this has been discussed before and I’ve simply missed it, please provide a link to the thread so that we don’t talk in circles

It could be that the gods are beings that Order magic with their “Consumption” and dragons bring choas to it with theirs

But yeah, great theory

I take Human God lore with a grain of salt, given that

Magic wasn’t create by the gods
Bloodstones werent created by the gods
Thruln the lost claiming the Gods were original in favor of Juton, but abandoned them for humans.

It seems that A-net really lost interest in the human gods typical story.

So you’re saying the connection to Tyria is a magically based one, and that the dragons’ consumption is disrupting that connection?
I don’t know, the gods left Tyria back in NF, when Kormir ascended (or at least they were starting to leave), and the first dragon activity at all was 3 years later with the Great Destroyer.
I think their disappearance is just coincidence, since they weren’t around last time the dragons were about (by like 10k years, correct me if i’m wrong), so they wouldn’t necessarily know about them

Thruln the Lost isn’t exactly a credible source – his story doesn’t match up with one from a Thruln ghost who dates back from then.

Personally, I do think the gods themselves are beings of magic, albeit where the magic can be transferred from one personality to another (as seen between Abaddon and Kormir). However, they aren’t the only sources of magic out there – and the magic they granted just before the Exodus wasn’t their own. (Although they may have deliberately split the bloodstones in order to create schools that mirror their own powers, hence why we have three magical professions that line up fairly well to three gods).

The fall of humanity had more to do with the actions of one of their gods that had fallen rather than the gods abandoning them. Most of humanities biggest losses had Abaddon behind it.

By the time the other races were on the rise, humanity, at least in tyria, was already on the ropes. The only other territory they lost happened when Orr rose and flooded the coast. Humanity pulled back further north in alot of places.

The true reason the gods are silent is hard to guess. The gods most certainly dont want to get into a fight with the EDs. If one of the gods lost and was consumed it would be a catastrophy on a pretty grand scale. They are still around and we at least get to speak with one of Grenth’s Reapers so they seem contactable.

Harnel.6810 – Btw just as Dhuums, the skull Grenth has is a mask (you can see him not having the same one he has all the time 250 years ago on the other ones) on the orr statues, just as with dhuums description and the Mural of Grenth.

Bard.7215 – The Jotun themself confirm that its just fake information/their version (just as the charr with the story abour Rurik) and that the humans were the first under the favour of the gods with how they talk about them and the fact that they dont know what the avatars are (that we pretty much met every day in GW).

Reasonably speaking, the horrible state of affairs assailing humanity at the moment can pretty well all be laid at the feet of Abaddon, yeah. Shiro Tagachi, Vizier Khilbron, Varesh Ossa, and others all kind of send humanity into the meatgrinder with their successive plots for world domination, and all of them were working towards it because of Abaddon.

I’m also aware that the gods didn’t create magic, but that Abaddon, before being imprisoned, gave humanity the “Gift” of magic, which could simply mean teaching them how to manipulate it, which seems likely. The bloodstones are just a control mechanism, like a floodgate; it controls an already existing force in a fundamental way

But yeah, altogether, the idea here is the gods don’t want to be completely gone, but that they can’t contact the world. Also, I wasn’t aware we can contact a reaper, given that I’m not terribly far into the story.

Basically, all that’s left to do is murder the dragons and see if that helps things :P

I just hope that the Six do return at some point in the immediate future. They’re a huge part of what makes humanity in this setting so intriguing, so it’s a shame they’ve been written out of the current story. I really don’t want to see humanity given the role of the eternal victim just because certain members of the lore team seem to favour the charr and dislike humans existing in a fantasy setting.

It’s likely the presence of the dragons is disrupting the gods’ ability to communicate. They’re acting as a primal force on many levels. As the dragons are destroyed, I expect there to be more contact with them.

(Grenth’s skull is a mask actually, not his actual head)

The Six Gods more or less are beings of magic – I view them, based off of Abaddon and Dhuum, more as containers with personalities for magic. These containers have a limit, hence why the half-god Grenth didn’t kill of Dhuum (couldn’t contain all the magic – mind you, this is a hypothesis), but in of themselves the containers don’t matter outside of preventing the magic that makes a god from going rampant (hence why Kormir was needed when killing Abaddon). I wouldn’t say they’re human mages (unless you know of humans which have wings like Dwayna), though some could have been like Kormir and were originally humans who ascended (I suspect Abaddon, Lyss, and Ilya were – at the least).

The idea of the contacts between humans and gods being cut off due to the Elder Dragons does have merit, and some more support – but also evidence against it. During one of the later storylines, Citadel of Silence, you call upon Grenth himself and you’re answered by one of his Seven Reapers. However, said Reaper says he’s weakened – but never says from what. Originally, I suspected (and still do) that there’s a war in the Mists between Grenth and a freed Dhuum – and that this war in the reason why so many shades and aatxes are seeping into the world (at Godslost Swamp, Blackroot Cut, and Reaper’s Gate specifically). However, the silence of the Six Gods started around 1075 AE, more or less, and while no exact date is given, it’s often the standard “250 years” for the silence – 50 years, give or take, longer than the ED’s time of rise.

i don’t think it’s fair to say that they’ve been “written out” of the plot. Quite the opposite. They are still a very important part of the world. The loss of contact with them is written into the plot. they will be back.

correct me if i’m wrong, but while the gods have been “silent” as in “they are actual things, but they’re MiA for all this time”, some of the divine magic still works.

i’m basing this purely on gameplay, but the humans still have six skills based on the human gods. 3 of them are prayers (that the engineers can turn into blessings), and 3 are avatar-like (summon hounds, become avatar of melandru, become a reaper). not only that, but when you find a statue of a god (like the statue of grenth on lornar’s pass) and kneel in front of it, you receive a temporary blessing.

just some food for thought regarding the dragons’ magic hunger and its potential relation with the gods.

It’s said that prayers are still answered, but that many people are skeptical as to whether it’s just magic rather than divine influence. Truth be told, we don’t know exactly what’s going on, but we do know that Sylvari, for example, are skeptical to the god’s existence in the first place. It suggests that the other races believe the gods are either entirely silent or don’t exist at all.

@Konig – I have to admit, the idea of Dhuum getting free has merit, given that his minions were constantly trying to set him loose. The same could be said for Balthazaar, who may be having some trouble with Menzies. Unfortunately, that theory still leaves Lyssa, Melandru, Dwayna, and Kormir unaccounted for. And yeah, saying they were human mages was a bit of a stretch, but I did mention I don’t think they’re entirely human just… similar, I suppose. Kinda like how a norn or mursaat is similar to a human, but certainly isn’t one. Also, from the wiki: “As early as 1078 AE, Jormag was actively influencing Tyria.” This suggests that there may be a correlation, as Jormag started his influence in the world not 50 years after Nightfall, but only 3.

^ well duh, svanir was the first icebrood, and he shows up in eye of the north, which is shortly after nightfall.

@Harnel: There are a lot of signs that there are other things in the Mists – for instance, the description of Ravenheart Gloom in the Domain of Anguish suggest that its depths connect to… something else. And then there’s whatever it was humans are intimated to have been fleeing from when they were brought to Tyria. The possibilities for what could be distracting the gods are practically infinite.

Hmm, it could be that whatever reason the humans and Six Gods came to Tyria was a threat – given what the Orrian History Scrolls say on Lyssa particularly, and possibly given the bit on Balthazar too (I don’t recall exact wording, but Balthazar stepped from the Mists carrying his father’s head – though it’s not shown to be out of victory or sorrow – and Lyssa is said to be helping the people forget their past and make them happy, indicating a sorrowful past). This makes me think there was a threat they fled from.

If this is so, the Six Gods may have feared that threat following them to Tyria and went into the Mists to fight it. Given that the human priests – one of which being a very credible source (Priestess Rhei, the foremost priestess of Grenth in modern day and the one who first tells us Grenth’s the son of Dwayna and a mortal sculptor) – say that the Six Gods are not in the Mists, it’s also possible that the Six Gods decided to “start from scratch” and the History of Tyria is right in that they went to create (or terraform) other worlds.

The mists connect to every world there is in existence, so the idea that they’re occupied with fighting an issue has merit. Obviously, it’s easiest to get to similar worlds or similar versions of the same world (Servers), but it’s pretty well flat out stated that they connect to everything ever.

Something that was brought up earlier was the fact that kneeling in front of the statue of Grenth in Reaper’s Gate (in Lornar’s Pass) gives you a blessing. The priory storyline seems to support the idea that the statue itself is enchanted in a certain way, as Sieran says “That statue of Grenth has been leaking magic. I couldn’t think of anything else that matches the power of the Sanguinary Blade.” This suggests the statue is pre-enchanted, not having direct influence granted by Grenth

Or it could be that the statue is magic because it is a channel for direct influence from Grenth. The Priory acknowledges that magic can come from divine sources, after all, and “leaking” magic isn’t far from how Vekk described the sleeping Primordus – if the gods are themselves beings of magic, it wouldn’t be too farfetched for their influence to be detectable as magic.

Mmm, true. We don’t really have enough information to go one for that line of thought, do we? Both sides have merit.

Or the dragons ate the gods themselves.

Except we know that at least 1 god, Grenth, is alive, if not a little weakened.

Doesn’t some High Priestess in Orr say that Zhaitan killed Lyssa? What if they’re dead. We know gods can die, like with Abbadon.

I don’t know, it seems as if the gods are somewhat active when it comes to verbal abuses.

I don’t remember any priestess saying anything about Lyssa being dead… But if you have the person and the location so I can check it out I would be grateful.

There’s only 2 high priestesses of Lyssa – one at the temple meta event, one in Arah seer path.

I never confronted the former, but the latter only says “Zhaitan eats gods!” (when first confronting Farnaz, High Priestess of Lyssa). But I don’t think she was speaking literally. Risen love to use psychological warfare.

The Sovereign Eye of Zhaitan also told me that Sieran (a Sylvari) was working at the right hand of Zhaitan. I’m pretty sure that you gotta take what risen say with a grain of salt.

Yeah, most high priests in orr spew nonsense. In the Grenth cathedral story step, his priest yammers on about how the dragon is his new master and whatnot. Most priests just say their god is gone/less powerful compared to Zhaitan

He’s also afraid of death. I remember him crying out about how he’s been freed from death and doesn’t want to die again. Which is pretty awkward for a high priest of Grenth…

Simply put, it would be a stupid idea for the gods to get involved at all. We know that Zhaitan, at least, literally eats magic, and we assume the same holds true for the other Elder Dragons. Seeing as the Gods exist in a plane removed from ours, direct communication would require magic. Enacting miracles for Humanity’s sake would require magic. The Silence of the Gods can simply be seen as a way of starving out the Dragons. Anything they could do to help would only give the Dragons more potential food sources. It’s bad enough that the five races are tossing Arcane magic around willy-nilly without throwing Divine magic into the mix.