Guild Wars 2

I like to believe that Sieran managed to survive, but received a head wound lost her memory and is presently exploring the world have wild and wacky adventures
…
…
Hey I didn’t see a body so you can’t prove that she isn’t dead!

We might meet her again, don’t lose hope..

After all, if she survived, she might well be a mordremorh corruption to hunt down

i always liked Forgal, so it was kind of sad to lose him.
I like the weird “grumpy old fighter and substitute son/daughter” situation between him and the PC.
I’d love to see a possibility in HoT to meet him again in the mists or something.

Oreithyia.3064:

i always liked Forgal, so it was kind of sad to lose him.
I like the weird “grumpy old fighter and substitute son/daughter” situation between him and the PC.
I’d love to see a possibility in HoT to meet him again in the mists or something.

same here, i really liked Forgal, and i was really sad when he died, and i +1 so much to see him again ,i’m so sentimental sometimes :x

miss Forgal !

did anyone see that letter in the Vigil Camp ?

As sad as it was to see them die I kind of like it better that way. The sadness causes a real reaction, you miss them. Besides in a world like GW2, not everything can be a happy ending. Look at other beloved figures who have passed, Snaff for instance, it’s sad but it adds so much to the story.

GW2 does (IMO) an okay balance between death and life.

In a huge war effort like that against Zhaitan, not everybody would live to see the end.

But isn’t that the point? Losing your mentor should make you feel sad and upset. There’s already enough lighthearted storytelling in GW2. It’s just silly when everyone you meet survives every calamity. This is a world that is besieged by several elder dragons simultaneously afterall. Claw Island is that one victory Zhaitan has in order to be perceived as a “threat”. At least in the personal story of your character.

Straylight.7529:

But isn’t that the point? Losing your mentor should make you feel sad and upset. There’s already enough lighthearted storytelling in GW2. It’s just silly when everyone you meet survives every calamity. This is a world that is besieged by several elder dragons simultaneously afterall. Claw Island is that one victory Zhaitan has in order to be perceived as a “threat”. At least in the personal story of your character.

I know, but I still would love to see possibility to see them again…well, Sieran perhaps not so much but Tybalt and Forgal were nice guys with likable character designs. it’s sad to have them outside of the story so fast and having, for example, kasmeer in the story instead. :/

I too wish that we had some sort of way to make sure the mentors where able to live, though TBH id take any additional story paths i can get outside of the character creation ones.

The first time was kinda cool.
However as they went the same way with the others it lost a lot of weight.

If they changed up at which point or how they sacrifice themselves it would have been a lot more impactfull for me.

The more times I see it and the better I got in the game I just ask the question of why Seiran didn`t come fly/mistform out.
Why Tybald just couldn`t throw bombs he apearently had, etc.

If you are good, the gameplay doesn`t serve the story, as you can easily outrun the enemies there.

My mesmer is stuck after doing the level 30 sequence and joining the order of whispers. As much as I would like to see Tybalt again I know each time I did it would be one step closer to his death. Sure, it would not hurt as much as the first time but I prefer to think he lives on somewhere whenever I encounter someone selling apples (the scene between the progeny and skritt stealing apples was priceless).

The first playthrough it bloody tore me apart to see my mentor get killed, and the eye of Zhaitian sure kittened me off with it’s off the cuff comment promising to bring them back, but along with the rest of the personal story, I’m sorry to say repeating it so much on so many alts has caused it to lose some of it’s impact, that and I do wish their was more difference between the 3, having all 3 die in exactly the same way in the exact same circumstances was a little boring…

I casted Portal so Sierran could reach me… She never did Q.Q .
I will never forget the two quest we did together…

I have never been a fan of the deaths in the personal story. Generally because after the first time you see them coming a mile away, they serve little actual purpose and overall, feel forced and cheesy. It’s my suspicion that the pattern of, “Here’s a new character in this bite sized arc and, oh no, they’re dead now” was there almost purely to add believability to the Logan fake-out in Orr. The problem with this as a story device, however, is the question of: “Who actually likes Logan?” Most people that I’ve spoken to about this expressed disappointment that he came back. This leaves us with a story where characters you do like end up dying for no good reason just to build up a precedent for a twist that ranks a dead zero on the “Who cares?” meter.

Even the mentor deaths, which are arguably the most impactful, feel forced. So you’re on Claw Island and they slam the gate closed so you can escape from all the Risen. But if you’re going to slam the gate closed anyway, couldn’t you do it from the side without the army of Risen on it? Sure, you have to fight the Risen off, but if your cunning plan is to buy time for people to escape, can’t you make them break down the heavily fortified gate before you engage them?

Beyond that, the other story deaths have a problem of poor narrative weight. What I mean by that is that you either have a well developed character sacrificing themselves for low stakes, or a minor character dying that has little impact because they were relatively irrelevant to the story. It’s poor writing and narrative planning that’s illustrative of so much of what’s wrong with the personal story.

I disagree that the deaths serve no purpose. Look at the way they’re spaced out- you go at least three arcs with no one on your side dying, then you lose you mentor. You avenge them, but in two of the three possible next arcs you lose another comrade to the risen. After that, as you invade Orr, it starts to happen again and again and again. And that’s ok. It has nothing to do with Logan- it’s upping the stakes for your own plot, demonstrating that yes, these Elder Dragons aren’t pushovers. You’re now directly facing an eldritch power that was wiping civilizations off the map in what now counts as pre-history. Your vast army shouldn’t waltz off without casualties, and you shouldn’t be some miraculous messiah able to keep everyone within eyeshot from dying. Even the light narrative weight that you mention feeds into this; like any casualty in a conflict, these losses are just a statistic to those who only happened to run into them at the end, but more meaningful to those who knew them before. It’s all around a good concept, one we’re already seeing them iterate on with Mordremoth.

The problem was in the execution. Ignoring the Orr deaths, which I felt were largely well done, and Tonn, who was probably the best executed sacrifice of the lot, the real issue seems to come down to the mentors, and to a lesser degree Apatia. The one’s been covered pretty well here already, so I’ll only add that gameplay undermines it too, as there’s nothing stopping you from swimming back around and killing off the hosts that took down your mentor. Apatia, while theoretically only an issue for roughly a third of the playerbase, followed that up with a reinforcement that your choices don’t matter. No matter how you choose to go about your task, the exact same thing happens to her. That arc was, of course, supposed to be about the fact that you left her behind to suffer, but placed where it is, in the manner it is, it also serves to rob you of agency. Not only could you not save her- you couldn’t even effect how she dies! Still, I feel it was only the execution of these losses that lead to such a widespread negative opinion, not simply that they happened. If they were just better thought out… well, here’s hoping for HoT.

Now, I’m going to stop ranting at you all and actually drink my coffee.

Tapioca.9062:

…purely to add believability to the Logan fake-out in Orr. The problem with this as a story device, however, is the question of: “Who actually likes Logan?” Most people that I’ve spoken to about this expressed disappointment that he came back. This leaves us with a story where characters you do like end up dying for no good reason just to build up a precedent for a twist that ranks a dead zero on the “Who cares?” meter.

I have to agree with you on this. I was thrilled when we left Logan behind. He’s like the unwanted pet that you take to the woods, only to come home and realize that he’s already there waiting for you. Like…go away Logan. I was terribly disappointed when he came back. And I’m sure everybody, including Queen Jennah, felt the same way.

They should have done more with the mentor deaths. Like, maybe your order leader could have given you something from them, a letter, or trinket, or something. It would have added a nice element, I think.

Logan gets hated because people (at least some) refuse to understand the fact he had two options, both of which WERE COMPLETELY TERRIBLE.

Option A: Stand beside his team/guild, POSSIBLY they could’ve killed Kralk. But Jennah would have been slaughtered by the Risen for sure and Ebonhawke would’ve fallen.
Option B: Go to Jennah and safeguard her. The guild is weakened, but Jennah survives and Kryta continues.

I doubt Jennah wished Logan died, and frankly it’s more annoying seeing the (nearly, IMO) blind hatred of him, like Trahearne.

Also, the mentors each have an ascended trinket based off of them.

Kalavier.1097:

Option B: Go to Jennah and safeguard her. The guild is weakened, but Jennah survives and Kryta continues.

Oh Kryta would have been fine. As far as I can tell she’s as involved in ruling Kryta as the British royalty is in ruling Britain.

Kalavier.1097:

Logan gets hated because people (at least some) refuse to understand the fact he had two options, both of which WERE COMPLETELY TERRIBLE.

Option A: Stand beside his team/guild, POSSIBLY they could’ve killed Kralk. But Jennah would have been slaughtered by the Risen for sure and Ebonhawke would’ve fallen.
Option B: Go to Jennah and safeguard her. The guild is weakened, but Jennah survives and Kryta continues.

I doubt Jennah wished Logan died, and frankly it’s more annoying seeing the (nearly, IMO) blind hatred of him, like Trahearne.

Also, the mentors each have an ascended trinket based off of them.

- There were no Risen in Ebonhawke. You meant Branded. And Jennah handled herself pretty well with them.
- You say that they could have possibly killed Kralkatorrik, but Glint had stated that they would defeat him if they all worked together.
- You then state that Jennah would have been slaughtered for sure if Logan hadn’t come to fight the Branded in Ebonhawke. That’s only a theory. You can’t know that for sure, especially considering what she did to save Ebonhawke in the end, anyway.
- He didn’t just weaken their group. He put Kryta/his feelings before the needs of Tyria. If Jennah died, and Kryta was really SoL, Tyria would have still been better for having one less Elder Dragon to deal with.
- The people who dislike Logan aren’t blind, they just look at it differently than you do.

Also, I realize that there are trinkets for the mentors. But having them (or something like them) given to you would have meant more, story-wise than just having them available in the game.

CureForLiving.5360:

Kalavier.1097:

Option B: Go to Jennah and safeguard her. The guild is weakened, but Jennah survives and Kryta continues.

Oh Kryta would have been fine. As far as I can tell she’s as involved in ruling Kryta as the British royalty is in ruling Britain.

Jennah is one of the key figures in the peace with the Charr (She’s the one who orders a team sent to get the claw of Khan-Ur) IIRC, Caudecus (who would’ve taken over) was described as somebody who would be more likely to try to send Kryta into isolation.

We don’t really see much of the Krytan government ingame, but Jennah is far more then a simple figurehead. The issue between the Ministers with Caudecus and Jennah was that they had to GIVE UP power when she came of age and took the throne, where before they held all of the power.

paintpixie.7398:

- There were no Risen in Ebonhawke. You meant Branded. And Jennah handled herself pretty well with them.
- You say that they could have possibly killed Kralkatorrik, but Glint had stated that they would defeat him if they all worked together.
- You then state that Jennah would have been slaughtered for sure if Logan hadn’t come to fight the Branded in Ebonhawke. That’s only a theory. You can’t know that for sure, especially considering what she did to save Ebonhawke in the end, anyway.
- He didn’t just weaken their group. He put Kryta/his feelings before the needs of Tyria. If Jennah died, and Kryta was really SoL, Tyria would have still been better for having one less Elder Dragon to deal with.
- The people who dislike Logan aren’t blind, they just look at it differently than you do.

Posting while tired caused the first :P.
Perhaps.
Jennah did that after Logan rallied the charr prisoners to fight alongside him against the branded (which he could only do because of the emblem Rytlock had given him.) IIRkittenil that point the defenders were being slaughtered. AFTER that is when Jennah did her magic.
They wouldn’t be peace between Charr and Humans most likely, Caudecus would take the throne, and Edge of Destiny would break up because Logan would leave after that. This is also ignoring the fact that Logan had sworn to go to Jennah’s side when she needed him, and they had a magical bond which told him she was in danger. Again, two bad options and he picked one. To the public knowledge, jennah is the LAST of the royal line. Also if the ritual to remove the foefire is true, it requires Jennah (meaning if she died, the foefire could last forever).

In the end, it boils down to Logan being an actual character who made a choice between two terrible options, and PERHAP it “Wasn’t the right choice”. Story is better when the heroes don’t make every single choice correctly.

The mentors made a choice to try to hold the line. Was it the right one? Maybe they could’ve escaped with the rest. Maybe it wouldn’t resulted in everybody dying. The deaths in the story, IMO for the most part, at least fit. This was a costly assault into enemy lands, not everybody comes back from it alive.

The mentors made a choice to try to hold the line. Was it the right one? Maybe they could’ve escaped with the rest. Maybe it wouldn’t resulted in everybody dying. The deaths in the story, IMO for the most part, at least fit. This was a costly assault into enemy lands, not everybody comes back from it alive.

there are 2 things I don’t like about it.
1. While having very different personalities, everyone of them comes to the same plan and conclusion. it would have been nicer, IF you let them die for the story line, that you not let them all die the same way. [Plus the marschall is kind of pale in comparision. He doesn’t fill the gap the lost of the mentor caused and neither does DE 2.0.)
2. there’s no way for the PC tp have contact with them, when they die.

I’d like to have a possibility to meet them in the mists in a future chapter of the Living Story for example.

Oreithyia.3064:

(Plus the marschall is kind of pale in comparision. He doesn’t fill the gap the lost of the mentor caused and neither does DE 2.0.)

I see this a lot, and I used to think it myself too, but I think that’s the point of the thing. Claw Island is the point where you grow beyond needing a mentor and take agency into your own hands. Trahearne for non-sylvari is the first and so far only major character you approach and treat as an equal from the start, and that is naturally a less close relationship than you had with the characters who held your hand while they showed you the ropes.

DE2… I find it hard to make an objective assessment of them. They were too much victims of the scattered nature of the first LS season.

I’ll agree the mentors could’ve had unique deaths compare to each other.

How that’d be… I don’t know. Priory you see a huge lightning storm on the other side of the wall (She was air magic)… Whispers explosions, Vigil shouts and sounds of fierce battle between Forgal and the Risen?