Guild Wars 2

Why does a spy network have a booth in every major city? Why do they freely offer aid out in the open? How come the other factions know that there’s an order that influence the politics and nations of Tyria. The Order of Whispers is not what it used to be.

There could’ve been better ways to implement the Order. For one, I don’t think the base accessed by anyone outside the Order. The Order shouldn’t be so outwardly mobilized like the other two, even when the Pact comes together. I think when the time comes to decide courses of action (around level 20-30), there should only be a Priory and Vigil rep discussing what to do and you get contacted by the Order of Whispers by mail. It’ll tell you their opinions of the mission and if you accept they’ll direct you to an operative that will give you the mission. I think that player characters not associated with the Order should only be aware of the Preceptors (Doern, Valenze, or Halvora) and even then told to keep their silence on the order. Player characters that are in the OoW, however, are aware of the Master and agents disguised in towns and agents that have infiltrated other institutions like the Seraph Guard or the Priory.

Why has the Order of Whispers lost so much of it’s secrecy in GW2?

First off all, in GW1 they didn’t wanted you. They trusted you in gw2 really early on cause they wanted to recruit you. So thats why you know bout them.

The second reason is that they are present in all towns, but you only recognise them cause they introduced themselfs to you. Thats why you know the emblem and some of the titles. Keep in mind half of the titles you only know cause of gw1.

So (if you didnt join them) they tried to recruit you, and revealed part of them. So you know bout their existence cause of that. If you visit the HQ, outside the cave is a tent with an npc that tries you to tell you there is nothing of interest in that cave (if your not OoW).

The main problem you are facing is that the gw2 story is different for every of your characters. Try see it through your non-OoW characters and forget what you allready know. GW1 had one story line, telling one story, GW2 has so many variations on the story, you actually know too much if you have more then one character or have helped people with their story.

Their uniforms are a bit of a giveaway.

Gregorius.1024:

Why does a spy network have a booth in every major city? Why do they freely offer aid out in the open? How come the other factions know that there’s an order that influence the politics and nations of Tyria. The Order of Whispers is not what it used to be.

Where’s their booth in Rata Sum and Hoelbrak? If you’ve found them, I’d love to know.

But basically, they’ve decided that in this day and age, where the world is beset by world-consuming forces of seemingly unkillable nature (it’s the OoW’s belief prior to GW2 that the Elder Dragons cannot be killed, only put back to sleep – sadly, we don’t see this happen in game), being more open is for the better. Their jobs and what they’re interacting with is still hidden, but they’ve recently opened their presence a bit more to the world. They’re a known force, so why not openly confirm their existence and recruit more openly? It gets more recruits and does no more harm to them than if they’re just rumors.

They’re not that much less secretive than in GW2 – the only thing is that they’ve confirmed their existence from the rumors and thought-ofs.

Besides, with the asura about, it’d be kind of hard to keep a hidden identity.

@OP They certainly don’t have booths- The Grove is the only place they have an open presence. In Lion’s Arch and the Black Citadel they only have out of the way hidden bases, in Divinity’s Reach and Rata Sum there’s a grand total of one member per openly wearing their uniform (and the one in Divinity’s Reach is hiding in a basement to boot.) Hoelbrak doesn’t even have that much.

As for the Order rep to the races’ governments, I think being upfront is a political necessity. The Order of Whispers is somewhat mistrusted by many of those in power, even with that measure- imagine what people would think if they tried to pull the strings behind the rulers’ backs. You can’t urge people to work together if you treat all others as only tools.

On the point of the Chantry of Secrets, I’m more inclined to agree with you, but keep in mind three things. First, the other two HQ’s are largely open to the public. If the Chantry was not, it’d be unfair to anyone who hadn’t picked the Order. Second, not much of the Chantry is open for exploration. Just as the other two orders keep non-members out of where the decisions are made, Vigil or Priory characters can only access the outermost chamber of the Chantry- a place the seems to be open to anyone who has business with the Order. Third, the Chantry is accessed by entering a cave whose mouth is watched over by two members, and then diving into a pool and swimming a distance underwater: it’s not like just anyone will wander in. The player character is extremely odd in Tyria for such foolhardy curiosity (witness some of the things they eat for skill challenges…); I doubt anyone else would reach the Chantry unless they already knew it was there.

And as a final point: why should they keep their base hidden? They have agents secretly embedded in just about any organization that could threaten them. They would be the first to know if anyone was out to do them harm.

The Order was more of a secret society in gw1. Nowadays, it is more of a society of secrets. People know of them now, but that doesn’t mean they don’t know the Order.

As for your characters knowing a lot about them, that is because your character is a special snowflake lore-wise.

If you actually go around and chat up random NPCs you find after joining the Order you’ll quickly realize that most of the order do not wear uniforms or hang out in a central base.

The rare occasions when you encounter a uniformed agent in a major city is usually in an out of the way or outright hidden area, not the sort of place people tend to wander into by accident.

Suffice to say your average citizen of Tyria would know of the existence of the order but would likely not be able to identify any of the Order’s symbols or agents on their own.

On the other hand the Order keeps representatives to the various race’s governments highly visible in order to keep the Order open and accessible to those they want to count the Order as an ally. After all what good is a massive information network that no one can access?

Our view of things is rather warped as player characters since we can get free access to lots of places that your average citizen cannot. We can walk right into Queen Jennah’s throne room and dance on her throne with impunity while peasant farmers have to wait outside indefinitely to get an audience with her. In the same way we are able to see a lot more of the Order than most even if we don’t join them.

I look at it like our CIA. Everyone knows about it, they specialize in secrets but we don’t know what they know.

I like that there’s a few hidden whisper bases in the open world. And I chat up every NPC and there’s a lot that are undercover and have an extra dialogue option when you join. They usually point me to a chest of some sort in an area guarded by champ/veteran. I only have one character so I don’t know how the other orders work.

As some people have said just because a lot of people know that the Order of Whispers exists and might know of an order rep, or even a base, in a city (although they’re only really out in the open in The Grove) doesn’t mean they actually know about it.

If you join the order and start speaking to every named NPC you’ll quickly discover that the vast majority of OfW members are disguised. Even the ones we see in uniform probably don’t wear them all the time, only when they want to be identified as members.

And even the ones in uniform or standing in clearly labelled bases aren’t exactly forthcoming about their activities. I doubt the vast majority of people in Tyria actually know much, or anything, about what the Order of Whispers do. There’s a few rumours (like they manipulate politics or know a way to Elona) but no detail.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

On the point of the Chantry of Secrets, I’m more inclined to agree with you, but keep in mind three things. First, the other two HQ’s are largely open to the public. If the Chantry was not, it’d be unfair to anyone who hadn’t picked the Order.

To be honest, I consider it unfair enough that you can only use your own order’s asura gate (this mainly affects Priory characters, since the Priory is a lot further out of the way than Vigil Keep or the Chantry). By the time they come online you’re respected by all the orders anyway – you really should be able to say “You know who I am, let me pass” by the time you’ve activated them.

@kokocabana: Unfortunately, there doesn’t seem to be anything equivalent for the Priory or the Vigil. ArenaNet really does seem to have given Whispers the most love out of the orders – AFAIK it’s also the only order that has open world events that get triggered by personal story as well.

Actually, Drax, they changed that about two weeks ago. All three gates are now accessible to anybody that far in the story.

draxynnic.3719:

@kokocabana: Unfortunately, there doesn’t seem to be anything equivalent for the Priory or the Vigil. ArenaNet really does seem to have given Whispers the most love out of the orders – AFAIK it’s also the only order that has open world events that get triggered by personal story as well.

I don’t think they gave them “the most love” just the most care since they’re supposed to be a hidden order. A lot of their operatives (to a point) are simply not obvious. After the Pact forms (or is intended to have formed, in some regions), it’s no longer really worth their time to operate with secrecy that significant.

For instance . . . there are at least a dozen NPCs I have run into with special dialogue options for Whispers members. And in one case, it actually helps fill a Renown Heart.

draxynnic.3719:

@kokocabana: Unfortunately, there doesn’t seem to be anything equivalent for the Priory or the Vigil. ArenaNet really does seem to have given Whispers the most love out of the orders – AFAIK it’s also the only order that has open world events that get triggered by personal story as well.

It’s the Priory who had personal story triggered events, not Whispers – that I knew of. The one of taking revenge on Sieran.

I’d never heard of the Sieran one… there’s one in southern Bloodtide Coast where you avenge Tybalt. Perhaps Forgal has one too?

I think that’s where the Sieran one is (a Risen Captain, iirc). It’s probably just changing based on what your personal order is – heck, even the dialogue and event title may change per character for a single event.

There’s a Risen Commander that shows up for Tybalt. That’s interesting, though, since my Priory character has gone through there as well and the event didn’t spawn.

draxynnic.3719:

There’s a Risen Commander that shows up for Tybalt. That’s interesting, though, since my Priory character has gone through there as well and the event didn’t spawn.

This is not something I have experienced, can we get more details? By “we” I mean “me” and “please post”?

It happens – or can happen – in Whisperwill Bogs, in the quadrant southwest of the ‘W’.

EDIT: @Aaron: They are too. Thanks for letting me know.

OP:

I think they’re taking that approach because of the severity of the threat by the Dragons. They have become more of a paramilitary organization than just spies, because they know that every one of the major races are too busy fighting internal threats to mount a force against them. Inquest, Krytan politics, bandit syndicate, Nightmare Court, Flame Legion, Sons of Svanir, tribal races.. it’s too much for them and Lion’s Arch. Plus the krait can attack at any time from the sea.

Also, I think that they are much more traveled than even we were in the first game. They have a globe structure in the Chantry that could not be there without having explored past even what we saw in GW1. Doern makes that even more obvious with his interactions.

There are Dragons in other parts of the world, and I think this “jungle dragon” mentioned by the jotun is what has Doern in another part of the world. Tyria seems to be Eurasia by the looks of the globe and would explain why Doern would be there instead of wherever he came from. There are three Dragons here and is probably the epicenter of the threat. If that region falls, then the rest of the world is going to face what would have been the Risen, Branded, and Frostbrood in one doomsday army, reinforced by whatever else is out there.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

I think that’s where the Sieran one is (a Risen Captain, iirc). It’s probably just changing based on what your personal order is – heck, even the dialogue and event title may change per character for a single event.

There is another personal story triggered event. A bunch of Ministry Guard try to kill you for ‘kidnapping’ Demmi Beetlestone.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

I think that’s where the Sieran one is (a Risen Captain, iirc). It’s probably just changing based on what your personal order is – heck, even the dialogue and event title may change per character for a single event.

There is another personal story triggered event. A bunch of Ministry Guard try to kill you for ‘kidnapping’ Demmi Beetlestone.

Source

hide spoiler

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Defeat_the_attacking_Ministry_Guards

There’s a priory equivalent in dredge haunt where the sons of svanir attack you for killing steag frostbeard

The order of whispers is the ones who knows alot more about the world of tyria than the other factions and about the elder dragons. The prioy is just learning from a dwarf about them but doesnt have the connections like the order of whispers.

The main reason why the Order of Whispers allows the player into the Chantry is because they recognize the potential the player has in saving the world. That’s why the player doesn’t ‘disappear’ like most others that stumble upon the Chantry.

To only members of each order be able to enter into each order’s HQ seems like a lovely idea. The more public ones (Priory being the first) should have a “public room” where players can go to ask for information.

I think it’s more like, “hiding in plain site.” Sure you see them around a lot but you don’t know what they’re up to when you don’t see them.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

@OP They certainly don’t have booths- The Grove is the only place they have an open presence.

That’s probably due to the fact that once one sylvari joins the Order, the Pale Tree knows and all Sylvari being born from that point forward will know. (I’m surprised anyone trusts a sylvari with secrets…)

Beetle.2476:

Aaron Ansari.1604:

@OP They certainly don’t have booths- The Grove is the only place they have an open presence.

That’s probably due to the fact that once one sylvari joins the Order, the Pale Tree knows and all Sylvari being born from that point forward will know. (I’m surprised anyone trusts a sylvari with secrets…)

Not really. Sylvari get an IDEA of knowledge, not the exact knowledge per se. An individual sylvari will still need to experience something for themselves to understand what is usually vague bits passed down to them.

Crossplay.2067:

I think it’s more like, “hiding in plain site.” Sure you see them around a lot but you don’t know what they’re up to when you don’t see them.

This. For all we know it’s a cunning ruse. The Order of Whispers make certain aspects of their operations known so that other people think they know what the Order of Whispers does. They maintain the impression that they’re secret, but make their secrets not that difficult to uncover. Meanwhile, others don’t look nearly so hard for any other Whispers operations which are actually secret, because they think they’ve already figured it all out.

Really though, the Order in Tyria today is not what it was in Elona when we first met them. They manipulate from the shadows, but they also want to have a public, political presence. Plus there’s the unfortunate truth that the orders can’t work too differently from each other, for reasons of story continuity, so Whispers secrecy is played for laughs more often than it’s emphasised for story.

Curuniel.4830:

… so Whispers secrecy is played for laughs more often than it’s emphasised for story.

Not so much played for laughs . . . except in Tybalt’s case

I don’t know, Tybalt is obviously the prime example, but a lot of the Order of Whispers stuff is pretty light-hearted, if only because they tend to get a lot of combat-light, character-heavy missions. To be clear, I have no problem with this! But most of the ‘secret messages’ and coded conversations you have from that order are a bit silly, in part because the player character keeps seeming to forget it’s meant to be secret (I mean everyone knows, right?).

Curuniel.4830:

I don’t know, Tybalt is obviously the prime example, but a lot of the Order of Whispers stuff is pretty light-hearted, if only because they tend to get a lot of combat-light, character-heavy missions. To be clear, I have no problem with this! But most of the ‘secret messages’ and coded conversations you have from that order are a bit silly, in part because the player character keeps seeming to forget it’s meant to be secret (I mean everyone knows, right?).

And yet, there are hidden agents in areas around Tyria before they start operating openly as part of the Pact.

Curuniel.4830:

I don’t know, Tybalt is obviously the prime example, but a lot of the Order of Whispers stuff is pretty light-hearted, if only because they tend to get a lot of combat-light, character-heavy missions. To be clear, I have no problem with this! But most of the ‘secret messages’ and coded conversations you have from that order are a bit silly, in part because the player character keeps seeming to forget it’s meant to be secret (I mean everyone knows, right?).

Which is especially silly if you’ve already done some secret operations earlier in your personal storyline, such as Ash charr, commoner and street rat human, a few of the Order of Whispers options in the 20-30 arcs, and so on. Personally, I get a bit of a cognitive dissonance there every time I meet Tybalt.

Hopefully the Whispers part of the story in the future is more serious, because while I really like Tybalt, it is hard to imagine the Order as being this all-encompassing, world traveling, super spy network right now.

Now that our character is a Lightbringer and pretty much on par with the Preceptors, we could see more of a “I don’t wish this mission on anyone, but we need it done.” type motif.

Spoiler Alert Remember the attack on Claw Island? How the OoW had to lose their secrecy to make the two other groups (Vigil and Priory) join them to take it back? If they didn’t do that, Claw Island would still belong to the Plague Bringer!

jmatb.6307:

Hopefully the Whispers part of the story in the future is more serious, because while I really like Tybalt, it is hard to imagine the Order as being this all-encompassing, world traveling, super spy network right now.

I don’t find it all that hard, but then I’ve met about a dozen of those embedded spies keeping an eye on things and having decent information about what was going on in an area. You’d be surprised at how many people you can come across . . . not all of them are on the wiki yet.