Guild Wars 2

There’s people saying things about pale tree being a champion of the unknow ED that may(probly not) sleeping under lions archs.

Which people are not considering is:

At the vigil keep u get to see a NPC talking 5 against 6. Meaning it is indeed an 6 ED, BUT, we have already well aware that DSD exists AND is between us and cantha. And we know for sure Zhaitan, Kralkatorrik, Primordus and Jormag exists as well.

FOR SURE! The 6 elder dragon is lost on 90% of the info people have, being 1)the most powerfull, 2)a good one, 3)dangerous one, 4)Dev’s Big Shot, 5)Defeated one.

So the arguments comparing the ED we have now and the 6 may not be correct, cause otherwise, other dragons would also be lost on history, not only the sixth.

I dont recall where i saw it, but maybe he was defeated in ancient times by the 5 races mentioned by vigil.

Or the vigil is just saying that Sylvari was lost in history, and that they only appear when dragons appear, being the counter-magical measures to them. Which is a boring idea. (like hes saying 5v6, actually tip that are other race lost in history).

What i believe: Its not a dragon now, Zhaitan was poorly designed, and a dragon now would like OH OK one more, i believe they will put Add’s on my unborn son’s kitten when they pretend to laucn next dragon.

What i wanted: Its mordremoth, he will awake, Scarlett will join us once she fails to kill him, he flys over to the jungle near asura and sylvari. These maps open up as 3 80’s zone.

At Durmand Priory* Not Vigil Keep.

DSD is in the Unending Ocean, but not necessarily between Tyria and Cantha.

Technically, the deep sea dragon is also “lost to history” – until very recently, it was unknown for the most part, and even now it’s only known to the Orders, Pact, Inquest and those who fled it (largos, krait, quaggan, karka) and those affected by those who fled it (hylek).

It’s been stated that no Elder Dragon was killed/defeated in the previous rise.

But the rest… I’m not sure what you’re trying to say, really, other than what’s been said by dozens of others, and not even about lore?

Six elder Dragons.

Six human gods…

Mmm

MAGpie.7962:

Six elder Dragons.

Six human gods…

Mmm

No
No
No
No
No
No

Six Nos

Hmmm….

MAGpie.7962:

Six elder Dragons.

Six human gods…

Mmm

A lot of people who are new here make that jump, but we shoot it down every time. Once you get past Balthazar-Primordus and Mordremoth-Melandru, the whole thing just falls apart.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

MAGpie.7962:

Six elder Dragons.

Six human gods…

Mmm

A lot of people who are new here make that jump, but we shoot it down every time. Once you get past Balthazar-Primordus and Mordremoth-Melandru, the whole thing just falls apart.

Technically there more than six Gods, which I think needs to be explained a little bit better. Lyssa lore says she is a twin goddess so technically she represents two goddesses. Also to consider Dhuum still retains his divinity status but is not recognized by the humans, same for Balthazar’s half-brother Menzies ( I might of misspelled his name), as a god. So there are nine human gods active unless I’m missing something that makes Dhuum and Menzies not eligible to hold the definition of a god in the Guild Wars universe.

Darkbattlemage.9612:

Aaron Ansari.1604:

MAGpie.7962:

Six elder Dragons.

Six human gods…

Mmm

A lot of people who are new here make that jump, but we shoot it down every time. Once you get past Balthazar-Primordus and Mordremoth-Melandru, the whole thing just falls apart.

Technically there more than six Gods, which I think needs to be explained a little bit better. Lyssa lore says she is a twin goddess so technically she represents two goddesses. Also to consider Dhuum still retains his divinity status but is not recognized by the humans, same for Balthazar’s half-brother Menzies ( I might of misspelled his name), as a god. So there are nine human gods active unless I’m missing something that makes Dhuum and Menzies not eligible to hold the definition of a god in the Guild Wars universe.

Menzies, as far as we’ve been lead to believe, doesn’t possess that indestructible divine power that makes a god a god, just an army the size of Balthazar’s. Dhuum should still be eligible, though some argue he might only be a half-god now.

The nature of Lyssa’s duality is really ill-defined, but since there’s nothing pointing her out as being more powerful, it’s likely that the two sisters share a single god-power/essence.

Darkbattlemage.9612:

Aaron Ansari.1604:

MAGpie.7962:

Six elder Dragons.

Six human gods…

Mmm

A lot of people who are new here make that jump, but we shoot it down every time. Once you get past Balthazar-Primordus and Mordremoth-Melandru, the whole thing just falls apart.

Technically there more than six Gods, which I think needs to be explained a little bit better. Lyssa lore says she is a twin goddess so technically she represents two goddesses. Also to consider Dhuum still retains his divinity status but is not recognized by the humans, same for Balthazar’s half-brother Menzies ( I might of misspelled his name), as a god. So there are nine human gods active unless I’m missing something that makes Dhuum and Menzies not eligible to hold the definition of a god in the Guild Wars universe.

1. Lyssa share their divinity, that is why they count as one goddess. This is the core basis behind their whole “twin goddess” (as opposed to “twin goddesses”). When counting the Six Gods, they count as one being, even though they are technically two.
2. Nothing says Dhuum retains divinity – in fact, everything says he lost his divinity (to Grenth), particularly the skill point of “Dhuum’s Last Stand”. He is a fallen god, not a god – there’s a difference.
3. Menzies is not a god either nor is he ever implied to be such (you spelled his name right).

If you’re going to argue “there are more gods” then the beings you should look at are Koda, Mellagan, and Zintl. They may not be human gods, but they are called gods by their respective followers, and though there are hints that Melandru and Mellagan are the same it is still unconfirmed (in a similar manner, there’s been theories that Koda is, in fact, the combined interpretation of Dwayna and Melandru, as well as being an alternate representation of Bear Spirit (the former coming from Koda’s titles, the latter coming from the new Edge of the Mists where the Spirit of Koda is a bear spirit, much like Bear Spirit was in GW1).

I don’t think Zintl would count. They hylek aren’t worshipping a god of the sun, or a sun god, just the sun as a god. They don’t seem to attribute it as being any entity in the traditional sense.

I did say “look at” and not “count”. All three have arguments against being additional gods.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

1. Lyssa share their divinity, that is why they count as one goddess. This is the core basis behind their whole “twin goddess” (as opposed to “twin goddesses”). When counting the Six Gods, they count as one being, even though they are technically two.
2. Nothing says Dhuum retains divinity – in fact, everything says he lost his divinity (to Grenth), particularly the skill point of “Dhuum’s Last Stand”. He is a fallen god, not a god – there’s a difference.
3. Menzies is not a god either nor is he ever implied to be such (you spelled his name right).

If you’re going to argue “there are more gods” then the beings you should look at are Koda, Mellagan, and Zintl. They may not be human gods, but they are called gods by their respective followers, and though there are hints that Melandru and Mellagan are the same it is still unconfirmed (in a similar manner, there’s been theories that Koda is, in fact, the combined interpretation of Dwayna and Melandru, as well as being an alternate representation of Bear Spirit (the former coming from Koda’s titles, the latter coming from the new Edge of the Mists where the Spirit of Koda is a bear spirit, much like Bear Spirit was in GW1).

Menzies is simply described as Balthazar’s half-brother IIRC. Which COULD imply having god-like powers, but not being a god himself. But it’s never really stated at all.

Mellagan vs Melandru, IIRC human scholars think they are the same (especially since some Quaggan use old statues of Melandru for worship), but the Quaggan are simply to polite to actually debate or deny the claim. They state Mallagan was murdered by the Krait (I think) roughly the time when the Krait killed the Quaggan royal family and drove the poor things out of the oceans.

I almost misread your post as “There are not human gods.” My bad.

Um, we know the Spirits of the Wild hold a similar level to the human gods, maybe not as powerful, but the Norn (in a minor way) revere the human gods as “Spirits of Action” (I think). Something like balthazar = war, Kormir = knowledge.

Other then Norn, Quaggan, Kodan, and Humans, we don’t really have any examples of ‘gods’ or god-like beings. Grawl basically worship anything that appears powerful to them.

That’s my point, actually, Kalavier. However, he is also titled “Lord of Destruction” as opposed to “God of Destruction” or the like – and it is proven via Grenth, divinity is not a birthright (he had to take down Dhuum to become a full-fledged god).

And yes, I know that about Mellagan.

And about the Spirits of the Wild – that’s debatable, truth be told. Norn value them on par, but humans view them as beneath Melandru. Their outright power is unknown. I also know very well about how the norn view the human gods, ty.

There is, actually, more than just those however. The krait have their prophets (though their existence is debatable); Luxons had demi-gods known as the Three Queens (Aula, Elore, and Ione); the centaurs have their Earth Spirit (which, I believe, may be on par to the Spirits of the Wild and/or forest spirits like Urgoz); and the dwarves have the Great Dwarf (whether or not it was an individual and the shared consciousness of the dwarves, or just the latter, has not been clarified and it is minorly hinted to be the former).

Well, moreso for others then you as you seem to know the lore a good bit.

Some don’t know that,. Course, humans thinking them lower is basically the opposite of what the Norn do to them. It really boils down into a rather neat case of “All these groups have their religions and gods, yet in almost all the cases they actually get along and don’t start holy wars.”

Eh, well it sounded like you were trying to clarify something to me. My bad.

*Alua, Elora, and Ione.

Heh, wiki article had the names wrong.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

1. Lyssa share their divinity, that is why they count as one goddess. This is the core basis behind their whole “twin goddess” (as opposed to “twin goddesses”). When counting the Six Gods, they count as one being, even though they are technically two.

Oh so that’s how it works, I was always confused why they refer to them as just twin goddess instead of goddesses. I liked reading the lore about Grenth, which is somewhat funny seeing as my first character was an Elementalist.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

1. Nothing says Dhuum retains divinity – in fact, everything says he lost his divinity (to Grenth), particularly the skill point of “Dhuum’s Last Stand”. He is a fallen god, not a god – there’s a difference.

I think my confusing stems from Nightfall how Abaddon is still considered a God, despite losing portions of his power as well to the other gods. I remember reading that’s where Grenth inherited his power of water from.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

1. Menzies is not a god either nor is he ever implied to be such (you spelled his name right).

I had a suspicion he wasn’t an actual god but it was also possible I had missed some piece of lore that stated he wasn’t considered a god simply because the others didn’t recognize him in any fashion. And thanks for confirming I spelled his name right.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

If you’re going to argue “there are more gods” then the beings you should look at are Koda, Mellagan, and Zintl. They may not be human gods, but they are called gods by their respective followers, and though there are hints that Melandru and Mellagan are the same it is still unconfirmed (in a similar manner, there’s been theories that Koda is, in fact, the combined interpretation of Dwayna and Melandru, as well as being an alternate representation of Bear Spirit (the former coming from Koda’s titles, the latter coming from the new Edge of the Mists where the Spirit of Koda is a bear spirit, much like Bear Spirit was in GW1).

I wasn’t aware of Koda, Mellagan, and Zintl until now. Couldn’t I use the possibility that Abaddon acquired his powers from an older now depose god to indicate their could be multiple gods lurking about? I know the apostate says Abaddon acquired his divinity from another god, but to my knowledge there hasn’t been additional information found about that.

Darkbattlemage.9612:

I think my confusing stems from Nightfall how Abaddon is still considered a God, despite losing portions of his power as well to the other gods. I remember reading that’s where Grenth inherited his power of water from.

Grenth presides over ice. Abaddon held on to water until he was destroyed, after which Lyssa appears to have taken it.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Grenth presides over ice. Abaddon held on to water until he was destroyed, after which Lyssa appears to have taken it.

Odd I could of swore it was Grenth that inherited that power, I’ll chalk that one to a faulty memory.

Edit: I can confirm it was faulty memory, Grenth was patron of Water Elementalists. That’s probably why I thought he had control over water.

Darkbattlemage.9612:

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Grenth presides over ice. Abaddon held on to water until he was destroyed, after which Lyssa appears to have taken it.

Odd I could of swore it was Grenth that inherited that power, I’ll chalk that one to a faulty memory.

Edit: I can confirm it was faulty memory, Grenth was patron of Water Elementalists. That’s probably why I thought he had control over water.

I may be wrong, but I believe I myself may have read that somewhere as well in the past. It could have been a faulty wiki article, or perhaps a situation where the lore changed between games. I mean in GW2 Lyssa has changed from having no elemental ties to holding sway over water. If I remember right, in GW1 she held ties over chaos magic…

Either way, should my memory be correct, Grenth had control over ice before he had defeated Dhuum (which was before Abaddon’s fall).

Darkbattlemage.9612:

I think my confusing stems from Nightfall how Abaddon is still considered a God, despite losing portions of his power as well to the other gods. I remember reading that’s where Grenth inherited his power of water from.

Grenth had a thing for ice even before godhood, having been known as the prince of ice and sorrow. Abaddon didn’t lose any of his power until the events of Nightfall – he was simply imprisoned. Water went over to Lyssa after his death.

Because of this whole ice/water thing, it seems that only a certain realm of the gods’ attributes are in the passed-down power (e.g., Knowledge for Abaddon).

On an aside, Grenth did cover for Abaddon in a deal of things – he was the most secretive/knowledge-based god while Abaddon was imprisoned.

Darkbattlemage.9612:

I wasn’t aware of Koda, Mellagan, and Zintl until now. Couldn’t I use the possibility that Abaddon acquired his powers from an older now depose god to indicate their could be multiple gods lurking about? I know the apostate says Abaddon acquired his divinity from another god, but to my knowledge there hasn’t been additional information found about that.

Abaddon aquiring power from an older god seems to be no different than Kormir usurping Abaddon, or Grenth doing so for Dhuum. Even Lyssa’s hinted at having risen at some point (her origins are left ‘unknown’ and she wasn’t among the three stated to have come to Tyria from another world – interestingly, the other two not mentioned were Dhuum and Abaddon; what kind of significance, if any, this is, is unknown).

Narcemus.1348:

Darkbattlemage.9612:

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Grenth presides over ice. Abaddon held on to water until he was destroyed, after which Lyssa appears to have taken it.

Odd I could of swore it was Grenth that inherited that power, I’ll chalk that one to a faulty memory.

Edit: I can confirm it was faulty memory, Grenth was patron of Water Elementalists. That’s probably why I thought he had control over water.

I may be wrong, but I believe I myself may have read that somewhere as well in the past. It could have been a faulty wiki article, or perhaps a situation where the lore changed between games. I mean in GW2 Lyssa has changed from having no elemental ties to holding sway over water. If I remember right, in GW1 she held ties over chaos magic…

Either way, should my memory be correct, Grenth had control over ice before he had defeated Dhuum (which was before Abaddon’s fall).

I do believe it was a faulty wiki article – a presumption made due to Grenth’s patronage over Water Magic for Elementalists (which, despite its name, actually had far more to do with ice in GW1 than water), which was later fixed, I believe, with the knowledge of Lyssa taking the water personage after Nightfall.