Guild Wars 2

I’m still relatively new to this setting and I’d like to see if I can get all of this straightened out. I’ve casually climbed to 80, but I still feel rather alien.

Almost thirty missions deep into the personal story, I get the sense that it runs right along the “main plot” of Guild Wars 2, being the rather cleché “save the world from dragons” with you being close the center of it all, but it’s a branching storyline at that.

Then there are the standard world events that take place… somewhere along the timeline, but I’m not exactly sure when. Coming in and out of instances within Lion’s Arch has shown me that fountain at varying stages of construction had me wonder if I was simply catching up with history.

With the Living Story, it appears to be side-plots altogether though I’m not sure where it all fits in with this whole dragon menace or if it is even still an issue. I would have thought the Personal Story would be how you’d fit as a cog within the grand scheme while the Living Story advanced the main plot, but it evidently is just the opposite.

That leaves me wondering what the canon actually is. Do I just assume whatever the mainstays do stick while everything that has to do with me can be cast aside? Does everything in the persistent world take place after the personal story? Help me out if you don’t mind.

I like to think that all Personal Story stuff happened at the same time. The only real problem arrives with Clawr Island. It would not make sense for the initial attack to have been all three orders at once helping the Lionguard, because that was the whole reason of the second quest there. So, in my head, it’s just the Lionguard fighting there.

As for the canon, it was stated the reason there were no Risen Karka was because Zhaitan is already dead.,therefore the Personal Story already took place. In addition to this, the Consortium wants to move the refugees of our Living Story to Southsun Cove, which also places it after the personal story. We don’t know how long Zhaitan’s been dead, though. One of the Charr I talked to about the periscopes said she was out there helping refugees for months, which coincides with how long F&F’s been going on.

I don’t know if I misread this though, but the construction of the fountain was actually when we were in the process of rebulding it. Mad King Thorn kind of destroyed it during the Halloween Event. It was not as if we were witnessing past events, if that is what you meant.

Currently it’s like this:

Personal story, original open world events, and the dungeon story all occurred parallel based on level.

When the personal storyline splits, all paths are done but they’re less effective because you, the big hero, isn’t present (see, for example, human street rat story split – if you go save Quin, Logan still goes to prevent the poisoning but doesn’t make it in time to prevent all of the poisoning; however if you go prevent the poisoning, Quin’s still targeted and is killed because you didn’t go protect him).

Claw Island is the confusing part in this – as is Forging the Pact but less so. Since the personal storyline acts as if there’s only one Commander, all the dialogue is about you and ignores mention of the other possibilities for those two scenarios. However, with this most recent patch in the living story we now got confirmation that there’s multiple Commanders of the Pact (according to Smodur calling the PC a Pact Commander).

So with those cases – the whole Claw Island arc – I take it as there being at least 3 individuals present at once, one per order and one per fear, and that Tybalt, Forgal, and Seiran all together went to hold back the Risen forces (unlike what Bunny said, there’d only be 3 individuals from each Order besides the soon-to-be Commander(s) so they’re not “working together”; furthermore, the three Orders do get together rather easily, and we could probably assume all three orders’ HQs get attacked so I would say that there are individuals who were present in Claw Island each). After all, no matter how kitten the mentors were, I can’t see them holding a dragon champion back all alone.

Overall, I’m willing to say there’s at least 3 PC Commanders (one per order), but 15 “big heroes” (3 per race) that made an impact on the world, but who’s what is left unknown for the whole personal story scenario, and only you yourself is the best.

New content occurs post-Zhaitan’s defeat, in order of its release I would presume, and the Living Story is the most recent in the order of Events. In a way, the “living story” began with Halloween, but only unofficially, and the rebuilding of the lion statue is just you witnessing it.

Mechanically, the four stories (Personal, Dungeon, World, and Living) can be mixmatched in experience, but timeline wise, personal, world, and dungeon happen simultaneously prior to Living (with exception of Fractals and Southsun Cove stories which occurs during the unofficial living – simultaneously with The Lost Shores) – at least until we get more of the three former story types (like we did during The Lost Shores).

BunnytheSwordsman.4173:

Clawr Island.

You’re funny

But I’d like to say that the course of events sort of lines up with our time so months for us is like months for in-game. But as the game works, it works in phases. And personal story has sort of already happened. So when participating, it sort of is like catching up, IMO.

I thought it was during that initial confrontation among the members of Destiny’s Edge where I saw the fountain under construction, but I may have had that mixed up with the Halloween event now that you mention it. It was a little disorientating at the time so I probably got confused.

I’m not going to worry about Zhaitan being defeated as a spoiler as that seemed to be a given right from the get go (I admit, the writers really like to lay it on thick whenever there’s a challenge or a tragedy). If anything it makes it all less confusing.

So the timeline looks like:

1st: Dungeons / Personal Story, concurrent with level of content
2nd: Main World content, After Zhaitan
3rd: Living Story = Present

I had JUST completed retaking claw island before checking back here and it seems be good timing for me to grasp the answers a little better. I’m not sure about every permutation of the Personal Story existing as separate, canonical commanders as that would mean a considerable amount of overlap and Trahearne gaining several second-in-command figures.

Actually, the represenatives of each order are also commanders, if I recall. I forget their names, but the Asura that is in the Vigil is also a commander. We’re all like advisors and it’s good to have multiple advisors.

One way to look at it, I suppose.

I like how we traveled all over the world looking for people, trying out new artifacts, saving organizations and uniting the orders – all between losing Claw Island and taking it back.

It’s Clawr Island, people! Say it right!

Well, it actually sounds more like “Clor Island,” but we’re difressing from the topic. And Kyran, you underestimate the power of Asuran Technology. XD It’s the explanation for everything, that magic can’t solve.

Kyran Foxfire.4139:

So the timeline looks like:

1st: Dungeons / Personal Story, concurrent with level of content
2nd: Main World content, After Zhaitan
3rd: Living Story = Present

If by “Main World content” you refer to Halloween, The Lost Shores, and Wintersday – then yes.

The only thing other than the things added in content updates which takes place post-Zhaitan would be Arah explorable.

Kyran Foxfire.4139:

I’m not sure about every permutation of the Personal Story existing as separate, canonical commanders as that would mean a considerable amount of overlap and Trahearne gaining several second-in-command figures.

There’d only be one second-in-command figure, but several Commanders.

Commander != Second-in-command

BunnytheSwordsman.4173:

Actually, the represenatives of each order are also commanders, if I recall. I forget their names, but the Asura that is in the Vigil is also a commander. We’re all like advisors and it’s good to have multiple advisors.

I don’t think Warmaster Efut, Preceptor Doern, and Magister (?) Wynnet were ever called commanders. As far as I know, they were just liaisons to the three Orders. They kept their Orders’ rankings and were just the go-betweens between the Pact and the Orders’ troops.

Konig’s pretty much said a lot of what I was going to say – timeline goes roughly by level (although there are a few oopses), and canonically all of the story steps happened, so there are at least 15 heroes (although not all of them necessarily lived to the end).

On the rank of Commander, I have the following thoughts, although they’re all somewhat unsubstantiated:

1) Commanders are similar in nature to Seraph Captains – in theory, they’re equal in rank beneath the CiC (Trahearne and Jennah respectively), in practise, there’s one that everyone knows is the CiC’s right hand (as Logan is for Jennah). In the personal story, that’s you… but the other commanders are still present. If there’s a distinction between personal story and canon, it’ll probably be that it turns out that the commanders were actually genuinely equal and there was no one second in command.

2) “Commander” is distinctly a Pact rank rather than a rank of one of the orders. I’d hypothesise that part of the requirement for being a Commander is being seen as being a member of the Pact first, and of a single order second if at all – at the time of their promotion, for instance, the PC is respected by all three orders – and thus suitable to lead combined operations. The “Pact Officers” seen occasionally are probably based on a similar principle but at a lower rank – possibly through people who signed up to join the Pact directly after its forming, rather than through one of the orders.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

If by “Main World content” you refer to Halloween, The Lost Shores, and Wintersday – then yes.

I was more referring to the heart events, actually, but then there are problems with that too now that I think of it.

When Rytlock and Eir run through the Ascalon Catacombs the Plains of Ashford would no longer be haunted. Perhaps those are level based too, but this makes it nigh impossible to keep track of since I hit 80 after having explored only a fraction of the world and I admit to not paying too close attention to that number in the bottom left corner of the screen at this point.

As for PC commanders, I don’t suppose there would be one for every choice of NPC and race allegiances possible in the Personal Story too? Some of these would have to be mutually exclusive, I would imagine. Also, there is quite a bit of faith involved in taking in the quantum collective of all personal stories as the canon when you personally never meet even one of your other counterparts, the pieces don’t fit so neatly in place (granted, I have a ways to go before I can decide anything).

I’m not going to go around RPing the idea that I’m Trahearne’s personal friend and all, but I have no idea what my character would actually know or what he has actually experienced; what is common knowledged or what even actually happened… or when it happened.

I wish I could switch out my XP bar with a time-line that fills in the relevant spots as I progress. ¬_¬

Kyran Foxfire.4139:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

If by “Main World content” you refer to Halloween, The Lost Shores, and Wintersday – then yes.

I was more referring to the heart events, actually, but then there are problems with that too now that I think of it.

All hearts occur prior to Zhaitan’s defeat.

Basically you can think of it like this:

In the long run, you basically get this set up for the timeline’s order of events:

1. Tutorials
2. Queensdale, Wayfarer Foothills, Plains of Ashford, Metrica Province, Caledon Forest, level 1-10 and first half of level 10-20 personal story
3. Kessex Hills, Diessa Plateau, Brisban Wildlands, Snowden Drifts, second half of level 10-20 and first half of level 20-30 storylines
4. low level Gendarran Fields, low level Lornar’s Pass, latter half of lvl 20-30 storylines
5. Ascalonian Catacombs, high level Gendarran Fields, high level Lornar’s Pass, Fields of Ruin, and level 30-40 storylines
6. Caudecus’ Manor, Blazeridge Steppes, Harathi Hinterlands, Dredgehaunt Cliffs, Bloodtide Coast, racial sympathy (lvl 40-48) storylines
7. Twilight Arbor, Sparkfly Fen, Timberline Falls, Iron Marches, Claw® Island storyline (level 50-60)
8. Sorrow’s Furnace, Mount Maelstrom, Fireheart Rise, fear personal story (level 60-70)
9. Citadel of Flames, low level Frostgorge Sound, Straits of Devastatio; personal story taking place in Straits of Devastation areas (from Battle of Fort Trinity to What the Eye Beholds)
10. Honor of the Waves
11. Crucible of Eternity, high level Frostgorge Sound, Malchor’s Leap, personal story in Malchor’s Leap (from fighting Mouth of Zhaitan to middle of the invasion plan into Cursed Shore)
12. Cursed Shore, remainder of personal story
13. Arah story
14. Arah explorable
15. Halloween content
16. The Lost Shores content
17. Wintersday content
18. Flame and Frost content

It’d be easier to show with a flowchart or something, I suppose. But basically use the level to associate when what happens, and once you get to the zones/story arcs with level 80 content, look at the last few bits above.

Kyran Foxfire.4139:

When Rytlock and Eir run through the Ascalon Catacombs the Plains of Ashford would no longer be haunted. Perhaps those are level based too, but this makes it nigh impossible to keep track of since I hit 80 after having explored only a fraction of the world and I admit to not paying too close attention to that number in the bottom left corner of the screen at this point.

Given how there are ghosts in post level 30 areas, Rytlock and Eir’s little crusade doesn’t affect the ghosts’ presence. It’s just that the Catacombs had a momentary time of having fewer ghosts.

Kyran Foxfire.4139:

As for PC commanders, I don’t suppose there would be one for every choice of NPC and race allegiances possible in the Personal Story too? Some of these would have to be mutually exclusive, I would imagine.

If there were a commander for every personal storyline possible combination, we’d be getting hundreds if not thousands of commanders (15×15×5x3x5×3 basically (each number representing maximum amount of storylines per story chapter in the personal story excluding the one-step-splits and Claw Island’s arch since that’s just differs on orders))).

Without doing a storyline more than once, it’d be 15.

(stupid character limit)

Kyran Foxfire.4139:

Also, there is quite a bit of faith involved in taking in the quantum collective of all personal stories as the canon when you personally never meet even one of your other counterparts, the pieces don’t fit so neatly in place (granted, I have a ways to go before I can decide anything).

Well, in Orr you clearly see individuals who you would have met before and if you had done the storyline they’re involved in, wouldn’t have survived without you – Deborah, for example (dead sister storyline), reappears in Orr. These individuals show that their plot occurs irregardless of whether your current PC went and experienced the storyline.

Whether or not the adventurers live long enough or become grand enough to become a Pact Commander is another story, and not entirely likely. For example, if you’re a sylvari – despite the other storylines clearly happening, you’re still the “only one other than Caithe” to recieve the Wyld Hunt to kill Zhaitan.

That’s why I say there’s at most 5 Commanders, while there were 15 heroes/adventurers that did big deeds (3 per race) but despite those 15, only at most 1 per race would be the “special one” – who I personally consider to be liked by the Destiny’s Edge mentor and thus chosen to deal with the orders in the level 20-30 plot (aka I say there’s only one Advocate of the Crown for human heroes). And among those 5, I may be inclined to say that only 3 that became prominent among the orders – one per order (with their mentors being Forgal, Tybalt, and Sieran). Thus there’s 3 exceptional individuals who’re a part of one order but respected by all three, who became Commanders of the Pact (answering to Trahearne instead of their order’s liaison) – perhaps a 4th being “the best of the best” of them being the second-in-command.

But that’s all just personal preference for how to look at the personal story, just like how I prefer that for GW1, there’s 3 “big nameless heroes” – one per campaign, and all three (or just the Proph one) helped out with Eye of the North.

Kyran Foxfire.4139:

I wish I could switch out my XP bar with a time-line that fills in the relevant spots as I progress. ¬_¬

I’d love a nice little timeline for when certain events, story steps, and so forth take place…

Thank you, Konig, this is actually immensely helpful. So the long and short of it is that all of the leveling content is backstory.

I can see why linear storytelling spread across a non-linear game has its hickups. For example, running through Diessa and fighting through a dust storm which is happening now, only to stumble across that giant in Nageling which happened quite some time prior. This will get even more obtuse as the game ages and the gap in time widens.

As for what is actually canon, it may make more sense to me once I complete the Personal Story at least once, but evidently many of the details remain inconclusive.

I’ll keep a closer eye on the level of the content, that should help out a lot.

Well luckily, most of the “leveling content” that you called backstory is just re-occurable events. One can view that giant event, for example, as a case of Nageling constantly attacked by giants, rather than there was once a giant who attacked.

It’s really only the level 60+ areas that are more “these things (mostly) happened at one time period” – and of that, the non-Orr zones have things which likely occur later. It’s only mention of specific killed-in-the-future NPCs that really break things (like non-Risen talking about how Zhaitan’s still a threat, or Flame Legion praising Gaheron – well, they kind of still do in F&F but it’s not exactly clear).

Most events are set up so that they can occur at any timeframe, even though there’s a specific ordering to the zones’ timeline.

Well, I think there are some potential problems to come up in the lower level areas as well – for instance, it seems that after Harathi Hinterlands the centaurs have pretty much been pushed out of Kryta and should no longer be rampaging just outside the gates of Shaemoor.

But as Konig says, most of the events are things that can repeat. In a way, in fact, the Molten Alliance plotline actually makes Diessa more cohesive for characters that have already done CoF – the Molten Alliance explains why the Flame Legion are still a going concern, even if the ‘old’ Flame legion are not making direct use of the alliance.