Guild Wars 2

I love the Living World, everything about it, specially releases each 2 weeks. Yeah, some things can be improved, but I like it a lot anyway.

Except for a little detail: How it’s affecting the timeline.

Lore is very important for me, and the living world is pretty much butchering the timeline. Events from before Zhaitan’s death collide with post-Zhaitan stuff. It’s a big mess, which adds to the general storytelling problems, and the lack of cohesion between the Personal Story and the open world.

So, what’s going to happen with the timeline in 1-2 years? Will we walk across a zone, fight Risen, then fight Scarlet’s minions, then fight whatever comes next after Scarlet, all in the same location?

Examples of this:

• Sparkfly Fen happens before Zhaitan, but the new Tequatl happens after Southsun Cove.
• Kessex Hills happens during the war between humans and centaurs, before the Pact is formed, but the ruins of the Tower of Nightmares are there, in the middle.
• The next release seems to be going to destroy Lion’s Arch, altering the timeline heavily for those who haven’t faced Zhaitan yet.

Examples that aren’t that bad:

• Southsun Cove saw its timeline progress, but it modified the entire zone without leaving dead links. It helps it was separated from the rest of the timeline since the beginning, not being linked to any other zone or story.
• Aetherblade base in Gendarran Fields. It conflicts with the timeline of the zone, but it’s in a corner and has no interaction with the rest of the zone so it doesn’t lead to confusion.

If we keep with this trend, everything will be chaotic in the long term. It’s cool to see a zone get modified so much, but it shouldn’t affect the timeline that negatively. How are the new players going to react? I would be very disappointed with the story if I got in and find everything is mixed without care for cohesion and order.

Solutions? Well, there’s a couple of them:

• When you modify a zone so much you screw up the timeline, simply duplicate the map. For example, Kessex Hills. We could keep the 15-25 zone as it was, and then add a new 80 zone. This would let us deal with the centaur war properly, instead of having them there fighting like if there wasn’t an army of krait next to them. Duplication gives more freedom, too, the designers can destroy whatever they want without worrying about removing important stuff. It could let the events stay as permanent content, too. In a duplicate version of Kessex Hills, the Tower of Nightmares could respawn and be destroyed each week. For future content, this could open new possibilities, like having the same zone in a peace state, in level 30, where we help build towns, and then have a duplicate version for level 70 where the zone is invaded and our previous work is in danger.
• Make the new events happen “in the past”, that is, parallel to the content they appear around. In the case of Scarlet’s campaign, this would mean it started while the Pact was still advancing to Orr. This would preserve the timeline just fine, since the Aetherblades and more wouldn’t be something from the future timeline screwing up the past, they would be part of the same moment in the timeline. This would give more freedom, too, letting the new enemies merge with the existing storylines. We could have Aetherblades attacking key locations of the original timeline, or harassing the Pact in the middle of their campaign in Orr.

Whatever happens, I hope they change their mind and work towards making the ingame timeline be cohesive and not a huge confusing mix of different events. Right now everything seems to be cool factor and whatever, but in the long term the lore and the timeline can become something awful, and if the lore suffers, the game will, too.

Lonami.2987:

Sparkfly Fen happens before Zhaitan, but the new Tequatl happens after Southsun Cove.

I’m not so sure that Sparkfly Fen “happens” ¹ before Zhaitan. Most events in Sparkfly Fen do not have actions that contradict a Tyria where Zhaitan is alive or Zhaitan is dead. For example, the meta for reclaiming the Vigil Keep could happen before or after Zhaitan, it is a back and forth between Risen and the Vigil. Both of which exist post Zhaitan. The meta for fighting back Tequatl (who doesn’t die when we win the encounter) is a back and forth between the Pact and Tequatl, both of which exist before and after Zhaitan’s defeat. I can’t verify the dialogue for these encounters, but if they have contradictory text, such as “We are preparing to defeat Zhaitan”, rather than “We are preparing to defeat Zhaitan’s minions”, that needs to change. Generally, when events are viewed as a back and forth between conflicting forces they work well from a lore perspective as conflicts can be waged in the same location over time. Thus, to answer your query it can be both. The Vigil has reclaimed its keep multiple times, but has also lost it multiple times, both before and after Zhaitan’s defeat.

This can break down when they kill off named NPCs during an event, but I believe they have gone back and corrected this in some instances (e.g., they renamed NPCs with specific names to generic names like “Bandit Captain”).

¹ – It’s a zone that depicts events that run cyclically in most circumstances. I’m not even sure “happens” is the right term here. Rather, it would appear there are multiple happenings.

Kessex Hills happens during the war between humans and centaurs, before the Pact is formed, but the ruins of the Tower of Nightmares are there, in the middle.

It can be both here as well. The centaur war is still on going as far as I know. The centaurs have won some battles and lost some battles over the course of Kessex Hills history. Even post Tower of Nightmares the war wages on.

The next release seems to be going to destroy Lion’s Arch, altering the timeline heavily for those who haven’t faced Zhaitan yet.

Personal story exists in instances. Instances by their very nature are detached from the open world’s timeline. Guild Wars handled this nicely when replaying events your character couldn’t have witnessed in the present by reminding the player that they are viewing events that happened before they arrived in Cantha/Elona/Tyria. Guild Wars 2 doesn’t do this, but context should be enough for an observant player to understand that they are viewing events of the past… One big contextual clue is the city the events are taking place in is now in ruins.

The open world zones don’t really have a timeline, all the events are cyclical. Apart from the Living World stuff, that is.
The Centaur War never ended and the Risen are still out and about in Sparkfly Fen. It doesn’t make much sense that the Centaurs wouldn’t react to the tower, but I assume they just didn’t have the resources to rework the entire zone at once, so it was limited to the area around the lake.

The meta for fighting back Tequatl (who doesn’t die when we win the encounter)

I’m not so sure, in the living story instance in LA after the first time your character encounters the Marionette and Wurm, Rox makes it pretty clear that Teq is dead:

Dialogue between Rox and Rytlock
Rytlock Brimstone: Soldier! Report! Where’s my Tequatl tail?
Rox: Back where I’m bunking, sir! I’ll go get it immediately.
Rytlock Brimstone: Wait. You took down Tequatl.
Rox: As reported, sir. I sent you a missive requesting an audience.
Rytlock Brimstone: Hm. Been busy. But I’m here now.
Rox: Should I go get the tail and bring it to you, Tribune?
Rytlock Brimstone: No. I don’t need a slab of decaying meat.
Rox: But I…I’ve been hauling it around for weeks.
Rytlock Brimstone: Ooh. I bet that smell sticks to your gear.
Rox: It does.

Another piece

You fought Tequatl by yourself?
Oh, cinders, no. There was a small army there. I just nabbed a piece of its tail. Others hacked into the rest

She just says she cut off part of the tail and “took him down”, she doesn’t say that he’s dead.

From a mehanical point of view, ANET cannot alter events and storyline steps because they need to be repeatable for new characters, and they have flat out refused to add 2 versions of maps because it would split the community… This poses a serious problem for the Living World – Orr, for example can never be restored, even though you do purify it at the end of the Personal Story. But there’s people who aren’t that far yet so they will have to keep it all ruined and infested forever, or it wouldn’t make sense for these people.

Same thing with events – why haven’t Zhaitan’s minions lost power or diminished in numbers after his defeat? Because for a huge % of the people he’s still alive as they haven’t bothered finishing the personal story!

These inconsistencies, make a Living World really just a failed concept when it comes to MMOs.

This happened in WoW too and nobody give a skritt about it. Even after you did quests and the world phased out you were still before the grand finale even if you already killed the Lich King numerous times. Don’t whine where there isn’t a problem.
If you care about good story, read a book. Games are for fun.

Juclesia Elcritian.8410:

These inconsistencies, make a Living World really just a failed concept when it comes to MMOs.

Not at all. MMOs need not have a personal story or instanced dungeons, and thus not run into this hurdle. Or if they want to tell instanced personal story steps, as GW 2 does; then they only need to indicate to the players doing them when the events occur. As I said above, GW did this for players who could not have possibly witnessed the Ascalonian Exodus by flashing a little message saying “You are re-enacting events that happened before your character arrived in Lion’s arch” (paraphrased). They need not do this even, as I believe most people are smart enough to understand that when their character enters an instance in a cleansed Orr and that things are suddenly corrupted that they are viewing past events, and not something current. Call me crazy but humans can pick up on the fact that they are viewing past events in a story given enough context. Other media has done this successfully for ages, are video games really all that different?

For those who don’t know Zhaitan is not dead body found was by going under the map an is confirmed to not be part of lore.

And time line between living world and my story has always been iffy. mostly because anet doesn’t want to discriminate against new gamers. Which are why most living stories are isolated to only a single map.

Fafnir.5124:

For those who don’t know Zhaitan is not dead body found was by going under the map an is confirmed to not be part of lore.

That “body” is there due to scripting reasons at the final fight.
The official statement about Zhaitan is defeated. Not dead. Just defeated. That could mean anything.

Personal Story missions are locked in time.

Most explorable areas are not (Orr being the exception).

AsgarZigel.4530:

She just says she cut off part of the tail and “took him down”, she doesn’t say that he’s dead.

It’s explicitly said if you talk to the warmaster at the boss fight area that Tequatl had been taken down a number of times before then. The pact bought the megalaser from the previous Asura who were there, and the theory is that his enhancements are because of the actions in Orr. So it’s left kinda blank about whether this happens during or after the battles in Orr.

And yes, the Warmaster and other sources pretty much explicitly say they never kill Tequatl, just force him to retreat and heal. That’s why he is always coming back. (Like the other dragons have explanations about why they keep happening. “Claw of Jormag” is the name for a large group of dragons, and the “shatterer” is merely a title held by one of Kralk’s champions at a time, one dies another takes it.)

I see many of you are making a fatal mistake here, by mixing game mechanics (event repetition) with lore. The logic answer is that there’s only one fight against one “The Shatterer”, just like there’s only one fight against one “Taidha Covington”.

As for Tequatl, I’d say logic says he’s been fought twice, one before the Tequatl Rising release and another after the release.

Don’t try to explain with lore why some events happen again and again. It’s game mechanics. It’s not like Zhaitan revives each time I go play Arah story mode. Don’t mistake normal dynamic events with cyclical “conquest” events that aren’t as clear.

This way of “updating” the world is bad, and the storytelling across the zones will suffer in the long term. You can’t put Pact forces in the same zone where you’re doing the Personal Story long before the Pact was formed. And if you do, you should explain it properly, not treat it like something that happened whoever knows when.

The living world strategy can be done well as long as it respects the timeline. If we don’t care and we start mixing up everything, new players will find a pile of confusing stuff on top of a game that already has storytelling problems. My two solutions above (duplicate maps or change the timeline so that Scarlet’s happening while the Pact is still fighting Zhaitan) would solve this problem just fine, and I’m sure there’s more options out there.

I don’t want to imagine the game in 2 years, when half the zones have ruins of a Living World event happening months or years later than the zone’s story/timeline.

But we ARE facing multiple Shatterer.
In lore the Shatterer is not a specific dragon, it is a rank. And thus everytime we face the Shatterer we are facing a new dragon.

As for Zhaitan in Arah Story mode that is easily explained by the fact that Dungeons are time-locked. And as such is not effected at all by the world progressing.

lordkrall.7241:

But we ARE facing multiple Shatterer.
In lore the Shatterer is not a specific dragon, it is a rank. And thus everytime we face the Shatterer we are facing a new dragon.

As for Zhaitan in Arah Story mode that is easily explained by the fact that Dungeons are time-locked. And as such is not effected at all by the world progressing.

Source for us facing thousands of clones of The Shatterer?

There’s only one The Shatterer, just like there’s only one Taidha Covington. There may be other dragon minions out there, but the one we fight is the same one again and again, because of game mechanics.

There’s only one dragon that has the rank “Shatterer” at a time. He gets it when the previous dragon who had this rank was killed.

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/5169-relics-of-orr/page__st__90#entry366411

I would say that is rather conclusive evidence that the Shatterer is not a specific dragon but rather a title, which is also referenced by the wiki:

The Shatterer, also called the Beast by some Sentinels, is a rank given to a champion of Kralkatorrik. At any given time, there’s only a single dragon of this rank. Once a Shatterer dies, the title moves on to a different dragon

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Shatterer

Lonami.2987:

I see many of you are making a fatal mistake here, by mixing game mechanics (event repetition) with lore. The logic answer is that there’s only one fight against one “The Shatterer”, just like there’s only one fight against one “Taidha Covington”.

As for Tequatl, I’d say logic says he’s been fought twice, one before the Tequatl Rising release and another after the release.

Don’t try to explain with lore why some events happen again and again. It’s game mechanics. It’s not like Zhaitan revives each time I go play Arah story mode. Don’t mistake normal dynamic events with cyclical “conquest” events that aren’t as clear.

You are making the fatal mistake of not paying attention to the actual world. The Shatterer is killed, the title goes to another dragon (you always see one flying up and down that region). “Claw of Jormag” is more of a rank, as they have (IIRC) mentioned multiple claws of jormag harassing the Kodan ships, so we kill one, and another one arrives.

Tequatl explicitly is mentioned to merely be “driven off” and the Warmaster implies a number of battles before the Pact bought the megalaser and set up their forces there. Tequatl doesn’t get killed, he gets forced to retreat.

Tequatl the Sunless is one of Zhaitan’s champions. Tequatl, whose name means “the one in darkness” in the language of the hylek (thus, with hylek calling Risen “the Sunless” his name roughly translates into “risen one in the darkness”), has long plagued the Splintered Coast of Sparkfly Fen, opposed by the Vigil, the sylvari of Caer Brier, the asura of the United Arcanist Lab, the quaggans of Brooloonu, and the local hylek tribes.

Recently, Vigil tacticians have reported that Tequatl seems to have “evolved” and its attacks have become more elaborate, and it has become more difficult to fight. Warmaster Narru who was dispatched by General Almorra Soulkeeper to investigate the reports theorizes that it may be a response to the Pact offensive in Orr; though whether this is the case remains to be seen. At a similar time to Narru’s assignment, Rytlock Brimstone had sent Rox to track and kill Tequatl the Sunless.

“It’s attacks have become more elaborate” “It has long plagued the coast”

from Narru.

“Vigil tacticians have noticed that Tequatl has been improving its battle strategies with every emergence. We’re here to see if there’s any truth to that analysis.”
“If it is adapting, we’ll face a smarter, deadlier foe every time it emerges. What we determine here will chart the course of future dragon-lieutenant conflicts.”
“Some asura have been testing this laster against Tequatl for a while. We’ve made a generous offer for the weapon. Now, we’re amplifying its power for the operation.”

The entire dialogue points toward Tequatl’s emergence being often, and fighting for a while. Aka, win or fail, his event happens in canon repeatedly.

Dalanor.5387:

This happened in WoW too and nobody give a skritt about it. Even after you did quests and the world phased out you were still before the grand finale even if you already killed the Lich King numerous times. Don’t whine where there isn’t a problem.
If you care about good story, read a book. Games are for fun.

Oh some people did, but it only really affected the RP-crowd.

Fafnir.5124:

And time line between living world and my story has always been iffy. mostly because anet doesn’t want to discriminate against new gamers. Which are why most living stories are isolated to only a single map.

Well the real question is: when does what occur. Most seem to assume that Living Word takes place after Personal Story, but I don’t remember a official dev confirmation so it makes takes place parallel to it, which does remove some of the issues OP mentioned.

lordkrall.7241:

But we ARE facing multiple Shatterer.
In lore the Shatterer is not a specific dragon, it is a rank. And thus everytime we face the Shatterer we are facing a new dragon.

Same thing with Claw, but I’m not sure if there are multiple Tequatls. But apparently you never kill it, which is supported by it’s defeat animation. Where Shatterer explodes Teq jumps back into the ocean.

Well, the timeline on wiki states that the living world events started one full in game year after the game had officially started and 2 years now since the in game time started (so 1 in game year after you start your character the living world starts and its been 2 years since you started your journey in game). Unless it took us more than a year of in game time to defeat Zhaitan then the Living Story took place after the Personal Story.

CureForLiving.5360:

Dalanor.5387:

This happened in WoW too and nobody give a skritt about it. Even after you did quests and the world phased out you were still before the grand finale even if you already killed the Lich King numerous times. Don’t whine where there isn’t a problem.
If you care about good story, read a book. Games are for fun.

Oh some people did, but it only really affected the RP-crowd.

Fafnir.5124:

And time line between living world and my story has always been iffy. mostly because anet doesn’t want to discriminate against new gamers. Which are why most living stories are isolated to only a single map.

Well the real question is: when does what occur. Most seem to assume that Living Word takes place after Personal Story, but I don’t remember a official dev confirmation so it makes takes place parallel to it, which does remove some of the issues OP mentioned.

lordkrall.7241:

But we ARE facing multiple Shatterer.
In lore the Shatterer is not a specific dragon, it is a rank. And thus everytime we face the Shatterer we are facing a new dragon.

Same thing with Claw, but I’m not sure if there are multiple Tequatls. But apparently you never kill it, which is supported by it’s defeat animation. Where Shatterer explodes Teq jumps back into the ocean.

A year makes sense for the actions of personal story. We know Marjory had met Kasmeer “six months before” (I think) before the time of this last update. A dev somewhere mentioned the Pact is currently in “Repair/regain losses” mode while planned the next campaign against a dragon (and which). It’s the same way in GW1 beyond. Same regions, takes place afterward.

The areas simple don’t = the timeline. Bar maybe the orders have independent operations (which is implied to happen even post Pact), you can’t truly say “Oh, everything in Wayfarer foothills took place before snowden drifts.”

The personal story is locked down but the living story has a timeline and is kept up to date. If the OP is concerned worried about running into aetherblades in a years time then that will only happen because they still exist in the world rather than any ambiguity about Scarlet’s timeline.

To expand on my last post, nothing in GW2 indicates areas being in a certain order of time. WoW for example, had quest lines where you finished everything in one region/town, they sent you to the next areas town. GW2 doesn’t do that.

Some of the higher level areas you’ll find “Pact” encampments, but otherwise those areas are near high danger zones (mostly containing dragon minions).

It’s why the various conflicts are so serious. The Centaur-human war isn’t a nice neat “This is the border” They got war camps all over and strike, ALL over. Sons of Svanir have their forts/lodges, all over. Flame legion the same way/nightmare court same thing.

Poor timeline? If this game had any sense of realism and a realistic timeline, this wouldn’t be a game.

The whole map would be cleared of mobs in the first week – there would have only been one Shatterer or Teq or Claw spawned, and this whole game would have no purpose.

I think it’s pretty obvious that the open world is locked in time except when the map involves the Living Story.

Trying to get around this is impossible and you shouldn’t even be worried about it, because it’s not an issue.

Vol.7601:

I think it’s pretty obvious that the open world is locked in time except when the map involves the Living Story.

Except that they do a good job of structuring many of the events in a way that they can exist at anytime, repeat, and still make sense. For example. the Skritt are always capable of stealing beer from a Norn moot. There is nothing lore wise that prevents this from being an activity that must occur once and only once. Centaurs can find new leaders, rebuild their toppled walls, and wage a fight another day. Nothing lorewise prevents this from being a repeatable event either. Dynamic events have a good structure in place for making an online world feel organic (i.e., not frozen in time). I don’t think they always achieve this, but they have the power to. Where it appears to be locked in time is where lore can use some tidying up. For example in the Campaign against Taidha Covington, I wouldn’t have the objective being to kill her (unless they renamed her to “Pirate Captain”, there can always be a new pirate captain). Instead it should be her capture, with subsequent events where her crew mates try to free her and re-fortify the fortress. The event returns to the state where the players must capture her again.

SirMoogie.9263:

Vol.7601:

I think it’s pretty obvious that the open world is locked in time except when the map involves the Living Story.

Except that they do a good job of structuring many of the events in a way that they can exist at anytime, repeat, and still make sense. For example. the Skritt are always capable of stealing beer from a Norn moot. There is nothing lore wise that prevents this from being an activity that must occur once and only once. Centaurs can find new leaders, rebuild their toppled walls, and wage a fight another day. Nothing lorewise prevents this from being a repeatable event either. Dynamic events have a good structure in place for making an online world feel organic (i.e., not frozen in time). I don’t think they always achieve this, but they have the power to. Where it appears to be locked in time is where lore can use some tidying up. For example in the Campaign against Taidha Covington, I wouldn’t have the objective being to kill her (unless they renamed her to “Pirate Captain”, there can always be a new pirate captain). Instead it should be her capture, with subsequent events where her crew mates try to free her and re-fortify the fortress. The event returns to the state where the players must capture her again.

That’d actually be a neat idea for the world bosses that can’t be explained as easily (The dragons fit this, same with shadow behemoth. I suppose the inquest golem/mega destroyer as well… lol)

Southsun and the Karka invasion was stated to be a possible because of Zhaitans defeat. With the dragons influence reduced on the seas, the Consortium could get to the island ans stirr up the karka, and they could get to LA without problem.

Since Southsun was not ignored in any following LS, in fact some built on it, the entire LS takes place after Zhaitans defeat. This is a fact.

So where does this leave the maps? The maps are the setting for both the PS and the LS. So far there hasnt been any LS that made a part of the PS impossible (only unfeasible) They never collided. So far. I am looking forward to see just how will the siege and possible destruction of Lions Arch effect the meeting of Destiny’s Edge, or the escort of Demmi Beetlestone through the city, or the risen attack.

Vol.7601:

Poor timeline? If this game had any sense of realism and a realistic timeline, this wouldn’t be a game.

The whole map would be cleared of mobs in the first week – there would have only been one Shatterer or Teq or Claw spawned, and this whole game would have no purpose.

I think it’s pretty obvious that the open world is locked in time except when the map involves the Living Story.

Trying to get around this is impossible and you shouldn’t even be worried about it, because it’s not an issue.

You’re mixing lore with gameplay.

Most of the dynamic events (except the cyclical ones like losing/retaking camps) should be supposed to happen only ONCE in lore.

We repeat them because of game mechanics.

Stop trying to make sense out of “Does Taidha Covington come back to life?” situations. No, the siege of Laughing Gull island happens ONCE in lore. In the game, the event respawns just like enemies do. It’s the same as with dungeons, them being instanced isn’t an excuse.

So you want everything to make sense? Then the world would be bland and boring as hell, since you would be fighting “random boss #34” instead of actual named characters with goals and personalities. Which in fact is why the world feels so dull sometimes: Lack of interesting characters. Add to it lack of meaning and repercussions, why fight for something when you’ll never win lore-wise?

Don’t try to explain game mechanics with lore. It’s bad enough the calendar was butchered and waypoints were made canon. There’s no proof dynamic events happen more than once in lore, the same for dragons (With Tequatl they mention he attacked many times, which I think it was a mistake, but there’s zero proof those attacks were like the ones we played, so my point still stands).

PS: Also, never use any wiki as fact or truth of anything -_-.

You’re going too far guys by trying to fit everything perfectly in the lore. I’ll show you an exemple to explain why I believe this : Let’s say I don’t give a **** about GW2’s personal story and just discover every regions of the game, one after the other. Once I arrive in Orr, I’ll meet the Pact and discover Fort Trinity. But they should’nt exist on my personal point of view because I didn’t do the personal story which is closely tied to the creation of the Pact and the establishment of Fort Trinity. If after discovering every regions, I decide to do the personal story, there is gonna be a few inconsistencies because I’ll participate in the creation of an order which I know already exists in certain regions of the game. And I can’t expect the developpers to create a new instanced version of Orr just because I didn’t follow the storyline before going to Orr.

Lonami.2987:

Stop trying to make sense out of “Does Taidha Covington come back to life?” situations.

No one has done that! I’m not trying to make sense of her coming back to life, I am offering an alternative that keeps the event similar to how it is today and still makes sense when occurring cyclically.

So you want everything to make sense?

I would like the world to make sense, yes. ¹ I think that is one of the goals of offering a simulation of a fantasy world. Of course, technology and resources are limited and things have to be sacrificed. I’m not looking for perfection, just improvement.

Then the world would be bland and boring as hell, since you would be fighting “random boss #34” instead of actual named characters with goals and personalities.

The event offered above keeps Taidha’s name, but changes the objective slightly. Instead of killing its capture. The mechanics can stay the way they are. If you like the mechanics and find them fun, then this stays the same. As was pointed out to you The Shatter, Claw of Jormag, and Tequatl are repeated events in lore. Are these events boring to you because of this fact?

If Arena Net wants to develop the story around these characters and kill them off they can always visit them in the Living story. For example, there could be an Living Story event that eventually stops the means Kralkatorrik uses to create Shatterers. I don’t think they’d do this, unless they had another meta-encounter they could replace it with; but as Arena Net is fond of saying “nothing is off the table”. That could even mean a beloved world boss finally meeting its demise.

For me, playing in more cohesive fantasy RPG is fun. I suppose it’s because I do enjoy a bit of roleplaying and a world that makes sense adds to the roleplayer’s experience.

There’s no proof dynamic events happen more than once in lore,

No one is saying all of them do, as Taidra was offered as a counterexample of one that can’t be at the moment (they should fix that). However, plenty were given that are cyclical.

PS: Also, never use any wiki as fact or truth of anything -_-.

Why is there something wrong with the information linked? If so, don’t hold out on us, it will only help develop the article. Or were you just being dishonest and you realize the information provided contradicts your narrative for the game and thus are just going to lazily dismiss it by saying it came from a wiki. The information that was linked from the wiki is sourced back to an Arena Net post on The Shatterer.

Lack of interesting characters. Add to it lack of meaning and repercussions, why fight for something when you’ll never win lore-wise?

I sympathize with this. I think their events could have better rammifications to the open world to add a bit more meaning to our actions. Even though Taidha does die, does that really make it more meaningful to you? Do you fight her more than once because her death is so meaningful to you, over say the dragon champions or temple priests who don’t die or are replaced by others of their kind?

¹ – My interest in this stems from Everquest Next’s approach to their open world. Largely promises and marketing speak at this point, but it sounds like they are taking an approach where actions make sense. If you kill the orcs in a region, they do not just simply reappear minutes later, but have to undergo a process of rebuilding their forces. Their buzzword for this type of world is “organic”. To me it just sounds like a developer using the best of technology available today to make a better fantasy world simulation. As technology grows our simulations of fantasy worlds will get better and start to make more sense. GW 2 isn’t using the AI approach that EQNext is using, but many their dynamic events are pretty good at telling a tale in a region that makes sense even when repeated.

Pecto.8914:

You’re going too far guys by trying to fit everything perfectly in the lore. I’ll show you an exemple to explain why I believe this : Let’s say I don’t give a **** about GW2’s personal story and just discover every regions of the game, one after the other. Once I arrive in Orr, I’ll meet the Pact and discover Fort Trinity. But they should’nt exist on my personal point of view because I didn’t do the personal story which is closely tied to the creation of the Pact and the establishment of Fort Trinity.

Regardless of when/if you do your personal story your character has formed the Pact. See Bobby Stein’s clarification on lore inconsistencies between the living/open world and personal story:

BobbyStein.2315:

What Regina means is that for players who are currently going through their Personal Story, the LW timeline will seem to be happening at the same time. Technically, they happen at different times in Tyrian history. Personal Story predates the current Living World season by approximately one year.

So, regardless of whether you do your personal story or not your character formed the Pact in 1325 AE. It is now 1327 AE in the living world (which includes the open world). Should you choose to do your personal story today, you are witnessing past events.

Regarding the wiki: because it isn’t actually written by ArenaNet, but by other players making much the same interpretations as we are here, we cannot assume it to be correct unless more authoritative sources are given (in which case it’s better to refer directly to those sources). It’s a good place to learn the background but not for arguing details.

Sirius.4510:

Regarding the wiki: because it isn’t actually written by ArenaNet, but by other players making much the same interpretations as we are here, we cannot assume it to be correct unless more authoritative sources are given (in which case it’s better to refer directly to those sources). It’s a good place to learn the background but not for arguing details.

Understood. However, you can’t just dismiss information because of the source, that’s a logical fallacy called ad hominem. You need to provide a much more convincing reason, such as the source is wrong because X, Y, and Z. In this case the wiki is right because it links directly to an Arena Net post that repeats the very same claim. It’s intellectual laziness to just dismiss a claim because it came from a wiki. Read the article and point out why it’s wrong.

Actually, citing the wiki is usually evoking appeal to unqualified authority, but as you say a direct link to a ANet post bypasses that.