Guild Wars 2

Simple question every time they go on about the scout of Zhaitan it’s about how he was spotted in that city before it was sacked. But what city was this? Was it even of any importance or just a glorified fishing village? Any ruins anywhere to visit?

Heh. I’d been wondering the same thing lately myself. There certainly aren’t any ruins anywhere labelled as Port Stalwart.

There are a few unexplored areas on the boundaries of the Sea of Sorrows, so odds are it’s somewhere there. We’d have probably heard more about it if it was close to the Grove, and we wouldn’t have heard about it at all if it was tengu territory, while the former D’Alessio Seaboard is close to Claw Island. If I had to guess, I’d say it’s in the stretch of unexplored land between Sparkfly Fen and Southsun – the Risen invasion of that region seems to be a relatively recent thing, and it would explain the road heading west from Sparkfly that we can’t follow.

Given the description, I think that it’d be closer to Orr than Claw Island – as Claw Island was made after the fall of Port Stalwart, so unless it fell then the Risen got pushed back (which I doubt, personally), it couldn’t be closer to Orr than that.

I had thought that it was where Fort Trinity was built upon, given this line by Trahearne: "I know a ruined fort on the coast of Orr. It will take work to make it defensible, but from there we can strike directly at the heart of Zhaitan’s forces. " at the end of Retribution. Description fits, but in Forging the Pact he calls the place “the Terzetto site.”

@drax: I wouldn’t label out the Dominion of Winds. Keep in mind that Fort Stalwart fell shortly after Orr rose – and the tengu had to fight through Zhaitan’s forces. Meaning that Fort Stalwart might have fell before the tengu made the Dominion of Winds.

Edit: As just shown to me by Thalador:
http://www.amazon.com/Guild-Wars-Sorrows-Ree-Soesbee/dp/1416589627

The lost kingdom of Orr lies beneath the ocean waves, an entire civilization swallowed by an ancient cataclysm. For centuries, the depths have lain dormant, those ancient secrets lost. Until now. The Elder Dragon Zhaitan has risen. In its wake, the drowned kingdom of Orr is reborn—and another destroyed. The city of Lion’s Arch, for generations a cornerstone of civilization in Tyria, is brutally swept beneath the waves, leaving nothing but ruins. Among the survivors is Cobiah Marriner, a human sailor shipwrecked by the tsunami and stranded at sea. When he is rescued by a ferocious charr, Cobiah knows that he’s been plunged into a world forever changed. Now, Zhaitan’s undead servants dominate the sea, destroying port after port and slaughtering anything in their path. In the midst of ruin, Cobiah vows to see Lion’s Arch rebuilt. Amid the storm of the dragon’s rising, Cobiah must become a hero to his crew and an admiral to the pirate fleet, and face the ghosts of his past. Only then will he master the Sea of Sorrows and crush the armada of Orr.

I suspect we’ll find out about Port Stalwart in the third novel, may even be a main focus.

I had the impression that Port Stalwart’s destruction was more recent than that. Forgal was present for it, and while he’s old even by norn standards, he also says that he was in Port Stalwart when it fell “years ago” rather than “decades”.

I think the Priory leadup to Claw Island also implies it happened more recently, but that hasn’t been fully transcribed to the wiki.

Still, it wouldn’t surprise me if it shows up in SoS.

During The Battle for Claw Island, when asking Watch Commander Talon about the fort’s history he says that Claw Island was established by Cobiah and the Captain’s Council after Port Stalwart fell. Unless I’m misremembering, though I don’t think I am. Sadly, wiki doesn’t have it up for my to double check.

I just so happened to have that storyline up right now. I went and checked and this is what I got.

I’m pretty sure it was the window after that – where he explains that they saw what happened to some places and that they needed proper defenses against such attacks on Lion’s Arch. Thought for sure that one of the places mentioned was Port Stalwart.

So I had only a step away on my ranger from Battle for Claw Island, so I did it and started Claw Island. Here’s what I got:

The window after the one Narcemus posted has Talon saying this: “They saw what Orrian invasions did to Port Noble and Port Stalwart. Someone had to stand their ground.”

Also, fun fact: while the map doesn’t show area names, there are four areas in the Claw Island map. Sorrow’s Bay (where you start), Western Strait (I’ll let you guess where – hint, the entire left part of the map), Lion’s Mane (southeastern beach), and, get this, Fort Stalwart! Where the fortress of Claw Island is.

Ten bucks says that Fort Stalwart was built over Port Stalwart’s ruins. But according to Talon, Port Stalwart was attacked – and implicably majorly – during Cobiah’s lifetime, and he was alive when Zhaitan rose.

So I guess Forgal is roughly 100 years old. (edit: fixing math fail)

Now the question is: Where is Port Noble?

Also, I have a suspicion that the attacks on Port Noble and Port Stalwart would be the battle depicted in the 2009 trailer – maybe the eyepatch guy was Cobiah? Or a main character in Sea of Sorrows?

Port Noble was on Laughing Gull Island – Taidha Covington’s harbour is described by that name in the meta-event.

Yeah, sorry about that, thought I had screened the other page that said port noble and port stalwart fell just before Claw Island was settled in 1237.

Bump but this place is mentioned in Sea of Sorrows many times.

Seems as if Claw Island was at least named by 1219 too.

Some pretty significant Sea of Sorrows spoilers, I’ll just block out the whole thing;

I really think it’s somewhere to the West of Rata Sum, would love to have a dev chime in, or even Ree herself.

Edit: Thinking further, since the Sylvari have not awakened at the time of Sea of Sorrows, I suppose it’s possible Port Stalwart could be in Caledon Forest, and has just been retaken by the jungle by the time of the game.

The Dominion of Winds will have been established roughly around the events of the book, so I don’t think it’s that far north.

Specifically, into the Krytan hills- meaning it has to be somewhere along the northern half of the coastline of the Sea of Sorrows. It’s also described as six days’ voyage from LA. Comparing that with the 8 week figure from LA to Kaineng, and using the world map lifted from the Chantry of Secrets, that would place it either just north of the Grove or along Sparkfly Fen. Given that it was attacked by the Risen, I’m in favor of the later.

I’d probably go with Caledon, actually. We know the Caledon region was part of Kryta during GW1, and thus presumably up until the raising of Orr. What I would probably guess, in fact, is the landing in Riverside Province, suitably expanded over a century or so.

Southern Sparkfly we know was mostly inhabited by hylek in GW1, and there’s nothing to indicate that may have changed. Northern Sparkfly I don’t think was accessible in GW1, and in GW2 there’s an indication that at one time Kryta extended at least as far south as Fort Cadence (and, presumably, the nearby ruins). So it’s plausible that Fort Cadence was built on the ruins of Port Stalwart, although a little strange that there’s no acknowledgement of such by the Vigil NPCs now occupying it, especially since a well-respected member of the Vigil was apparently at Port Stalwart around when it fell.

You have a point… although it’s also said that the Risen presence in Caledon in a recent development. Why would Zhaitan abandon territory that he had seized?

The most likely answer would be to send troops somewhere else. I’d imagine that the coast of the Sea of Sorrows had a lot of bodies, and possibly magical artifacts, for the taking – it would probably have been a relatively low-investment operation for Zhaitan to send minions to seize those bodies and magic items,, overrun any strongpoints they may have, and then redeploy them to somewhere that Zhaitan considered to be more important.

Since the western coast of the Sea of Sorrows apparently remained unsettled until the sylvari started to drop from the tree, and there’s limited apparent defensive benefit to Orr for holding the territory, it’s probably that Zhaitan didn’t have any reason to return until he learned that a new civilisation had arisen on that coast – and one that believed it had a manifest destiny to fight the dragons, to boot.

I’m not sure if it’s any help in finding the place, but Raid on the Capricorn seems to take place in Port Stalwart.

Here’s a map of GW1 POIs on the GW2 map:

http://gw2.mmorpg-life.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/guild_wars_2_points_of_interest.jpg

Here’s a GW1 map:
http://i.imgur.com/0SyFS.jpg

Here’s a Tyria world map:
http://i.imgur.com/JAyuE.jpg

Things we know:

It was not constructed during GW1; it was sometime after the sinking of Orr.
Originally it was a shallow harbor, but flooded following the rising of Orr and the wave.
It’s about 6 days sailing from LA on a wrecked ship.
Cobiah says he knows the sea from Rata Sum to the Splintered Coast (West→East) and from Port Stalwart to Port Noble. We know Port Noble is on Laughing Gull Island, which is on the Northeastern portion of Sea of Sorrows. This could mean that Port Stalwart is either South or West of there.
South would place it closer to Orr and the tidal wave, but we know from the book that it seemed to be relatively unscathed by the wave.

Just looking at the GW1 map, obvious ports are East of Sanctum Cay, North of Sanctum Cay, on the Southern tip of The Grove area, and South on what’s now the Splintered Coast.

The most likely places I can see are on the Southern edge of the Splintered Coast (there are hills and mountains readily available, plus its South of Port Noble), and North of Sanctum Cay.

In both instances a wave would have been hindered by barrier islands getting in the way and blocking most of its force, plus the Splintered Coast harbor is actually facing North West and so it would not have been hit head-on by the wave. Both are a fair distance from LA, but not so far that you’d expect it to take weeks to get there on a decent ship. I’d expect to see ruins on the Splintered Coast though, and since we don’t have any visible (unless its Fort Trinity), then I think it’s likely on the Western edge of the Sea of Sorrows around Sanctum Cay. Fort Trinity would be a good spot, except that it is really close to Orr (seems like it would be heavily damaged by the wave) and it also seems more than 6 days sailing from LA.

It does also seem strange that he would mention the Splintered Coast and Port Stalwart on one breath if they were both in roughly the same place. That suggests to me they’re in different locations.

Having now (finally) received and read my copy…

There is a description of Port Stalwart in the book. Some of the terrain features include:

I won’t bother with spoiler tags since half of the thread is containing such, so be warned descriptive spoilers incoming.

Given the descriptions, we know that it is in northern Sea of Sorrows, and likely west of Lion’s Arch, it was formerly on shallow reefs but high ground, and it’s near a jungle. It was also used as a vacational port, more or less, and is said to have had a good view before the flood.

Given that Cobiah knew where the Dead Ships came from when Port Stalwart was besieged, I doubt he’d go in Orr’s direction when escaping, yet he ended up along the Maguuma coast after nearly a week of fast sailing to escape the Harbinger (likely not in a straight path). And the closest port he was to at that point was Rata Sum.

We also know it’s some distance away from Orr – far enough for both it and LA to be suspected to have survived the tidal wave, given the known height of the thing even with the fact it was on high ground wouldn’t itself make it believed to have survived if it was nearby. Yet it was also close enough to be the first of four known major ports on the Sea of Sorrows (Port Stalwart, Port Noble, Lion’s Arch, and Rata Sum) to have been attacked – mind you one was decimated at the time.

Sources for above:

Page 75: Makes mention of the shallow harbor of Port Stalwart, and is one of two suspected harbors to have survived the tidal wave. The page also makes mention of the Havoc being pushed so far north from said tidal wave that Lion’s Arch is the best option, with Port Stalwart being second.

This tells us it’s not along the southern Maguuma coast, nor on the western coast of Tyria – it’s definitely within the Sea of Sorrows, within reach of the tidal wave.

Page 92 and 93 make mention of the design of early ports versus newer ports, Stalwart being of the later and stating “Stalwart’s newer, designed generations after the Orrian peninsula was destroyed. Despite its doughty name, Port Stalwart is a vacation town, not a fortress. It’s built to have an oh-so-pretty view.”

This tells us it didn’t exist in GW1, and it was built in a place that during GW1 would have been shallow waters with high ground off the coast.

Page 124 states that asura use it when going from the Maguuma to Kryta.

This tells us that Stalwart is definitely closer to Rata Sum than Port Noble was, which was in Bloodtide Coast.

Then there’s page 170-2 which makes mention of their location and time after the Port Stalwart attack, and makes mention that they were between Rata Sum and Port Noble.

Which again confirms/implies that Stalwart is east of Noble, given that the Salma’s Grace left Noble before Stalwart was sacked and still behind the Pride.

Page 123 makes mention of a lagoon, and two waterfalls coming from a forest.

This tells us that on the GW2 map, there should be a lagoon and 2 water falls near wherever Port Stalwart was. Likely ruins too, unless they got removed. I don’t recall such a place in explorable map. Likely, in GW1, there’d be the waterfalls too, though perhaps not a lagoon.

However, I do see a spot in the fogged up area of the map which could count as a lagoon, that’s near a forest, and with access to the Sea of Sorrows in a possibly-open-but-protected manner: south of Kessex Hills, east of Caledon Forest, just on the outside of the Tengu wall in the fogged corner where Kessex and Caledon and the Dominion of Winds meet. There’s a nice blue blot, that can easily be a lagoon. If the Dominion of Winds wasn’t there yet – which the book makes no mention of at all and we know the tengu arrived on continental Tyria after the tidal wave (and given how Edair was only focused on Lion’s Arch who “stole Krytan land” I presume the tengu settled the Dominion of Winds either with diplomacy, which seems unlikely given what I recall, or after 1256 AE).

I bet that is where Port Stalwart was.

I think Port Stalwart was either in the island south of Dominion of Winds, or in the coast of Kessex Hills, in current tengu territory.

I hope they don’t forget about it and add it when they complete the Sea of Sorrows’s zones, even if it’s just some old ruins.

Personally, I think that Garrenhoff is a pretty good candidate, it could have been built on top of the ruins of Port Stalwart. It has very high cliffs surrounding it, is as far from Orr as LA and has a small peninsula to block it from the wave. It has ruins right next to it(Shattered Observatory) which has a river flowing through it that has to come out of the mountain somewhere(waterfalls). It is closer to Rata Sum than Port Noble(by a tiny bit). It has an excellent view, and the water is fairly shallow. The only thing holding my theory back though is that it is really close to Lion’s Arch. (But then again the time it takes to sail places has never been consistent.)

Port Stalwart didn’t have cliffs surrounding it – that was a key point about its descriptions. Rather than being built within cliffs, it was built on high land instead. And I think it’s a bit too close to Lion’s Arch.

Given the cliffs, Garrenhoff – though likely of a different name before – was likely built around the time Lion’s Arch was, given that ports surrounded by cliffs were built while Kryta was in war with Orr.