Primordus and lore (spoiler alert)
Well.. We already see in-game that it is unwise to kill Elder Dragons. The whole issue with magic running rampant is directly caused by the death of two Elder Dragons.
The story is set up in such a way that there are two evils: 1) Having dead/sleeping dragons causes magic levels to increase which causes all kinds of problems, 2) having awake dragons not only kills or corrupts a lot of living creatures but it also causes magic levels to drop which Tyria needs to function.
That’s also why the egg is so important, it can potentially be a benevolent dragon that absorbs magic when there is too much and go to sleep (and thus excrete magic) when there is too little.
tl;dr Anet is already working on problematizing the whole ‘kill dragons’ thing.
Well.. We already see in-game that it is unwise to kill Elder Dragons. The whole issue with magic running rampant is directly caused by the death of two Elder Dragons.
The story is set up in such a way that there are two evils: 1) Having dead/sleeping dragons causes magic levels to increase which causes all kinds of problems, 2) having awake dragons not only kills or corrupts a lot of living creatures but it also causes magic levels to drop which Tyria needs to function.
That’s also why the egg is so important, it can potentially be a benevolent dragon that absorbs magic when there is too much and go to sleep (and thus excrete magic) when there is too little.
tl;dr Anet is already working on problematizing the whole ‘kill dragons’ thing.
Yea I really hope they keep a clear head when developing the lore, it’s the most important part of a the game. An mmorpg with no lore is a dead one. I’m just a little worried is all.
So is the sad anomalies that are appearing everywhere the result of the dragons being defeated?
So is the sad anomalies that are appearing everywhere the result of the dragons being defeated?
Personally, I think those have more to do with tampering with the Bloodstone(s).
So is the sad anomalies that are appearing everywhere the result of the dragons being defeated?
Personally, I think those have more to do with tampering with the Bloodstone(s).
Personally, I hope that the defeat of the elder dragons plays a larger part of this than the bloodstone. Causing a greater problem by trying to do good offers an intriguing and nuanced scenario. Things going awry because of tampering with a magic rock has a lot of potential to be cliche. Either way could be played well or poorly, of course.
So is the sad anomalies that are appearing everywhere the result of the dragons being defeated?
Personally, I think those have more to do with tampering with the Bloodstone(s).
Personally, I hope that the defeat of the elder dragons plays a larger part of this than the bloodstone. Causing a greater problem by trying to do good offers an intriguing and nuanced scenario. Things going awry because of tampering with a magic rock has a lot of potential to be cliche. Either way could be played well or poorly, of course.
Though somewhat informed speculation, this is none the less speculation, and frankly, speculating is all either of us can do, is it not?
Magic is a gift from the human god Abaddon. It was sealed within the bloodstones by the other gods, so it is logical to conclude that the magic we had in the world was already restricted.
It took 5 gods to seal the magic of the world in the bloodstone. so calling either of it’s five fragments a “magic rock”, is kinda equivalent to calling a dragon an annoying lizard.
If Lazarus have indeed consumed the power of the bloodstone, he is probably equivalent in power, to one of the human a gods, which would put him slightly above an elder dragons.
We have seen one Mursaat return from the dead. With the power of the bloodstone, it is not unthinkable that he could either revive his race completely, or infuse the white mantle with Mursaat souls, granting them power of an equivalent level.
If killing an elder dragon is equivalent to a mortar shell of magic dropping on Tyria, this “magic rock” that was just destroyed, is more like a nuclear explosion of magic, dropping on the world, in compare.
This “cliché”, is somewhat like a Chernobyl disaster, except that it just created a genuine Mursaat god.
I am quite confident, that we will get to see Both of the two scenarios play out. We really do not want any more stray magic in the world. Slaying the elder dragon was a problem prior to the bloodstone’s destruction. Now the elder dragons being alive, is a minor problem, compared to having them die off.
We cannot slay neither the elder dragons nor Lazarus. Killing either would release too much raw magic into the environment. Unless of course we find a way to store the magic.
One solution to this could be to do with the raw magic, what Kormir did with Abaddons power. Powerful individuals could be used as vessels, to ascend into a form of keepers of magic.
When commenting on a suggestion:
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Leave it to A-net to decide whether the suggestion is possible or not.
(edited by Zelanard.5806)
So is the sad anomalies that are appearing everywhere the result of the dragons being defeated?
Personally, I think those have more to do with tampering with the Bloodstone(s).
Personally, I hope that the defeat of the elder dragons plays a larger part of this than the bloodstone. Causing a greater problem by trying to do good offers an intriguing and nuanced scenario. Things going awry because of tampering with a magic rock has a lot of potential to be cliche. Either way could be played well or poorly, of course.
Though somewhat informed speculation, this is none the less speculation, and frankly, speculating is all either of us can do, is it not?
Magic is a gift from the human god Abaddon. It was sealed within the bloodstones by the other gods, so it is logical to conclude that the magic we had in the world was already restricted.
It took 5 gods to seal the magic of the world in the bloodstone. so calling either of it’s five fragments a “magic rock”, is kinda equivalent to calling a dragon an annoying lizard.
If Lazarus have indeed consumed the power of the bloodstone, he is probably equivalent in power, to one of the human a gods, which would put him slightly above an elder dragons.
We have seen one Mursaat return from the dead. With the power of the bloodstone, it is not unthinkable that he could either revive his race completely, or infuse the white mantle with Mursaat souls, granting them power of an equivalent level.If killing an elder dragon is equivalent to a mortar shell of magic dropping on Tyria, this “magic rock” that was just destroyed, is more like a nuclear explosion of magic, dropping on the world, in compare.
This “cliché”, is somewhat like a Chernobyl disaster, except that it just created a genuine Mursaat god.I am quite confident, that we will get to see Both of the two scenarios play out. We really do not want any more stray magic in the world. Slaying the elder dragon was a problem prior to the bloodstone’s destruction. Now the elder dragons being alive, is a minor problem, compared to having them die off.
We cannot slay neither the elder dragons nor Lazarus. Killing either would release too much raw magic into the environment. Unless of course we find a way to store the magic.One solution to this could be to do with the raw magic, what Kormir did with Abaddons power. Powerful individuals could be used as vessels, to ascend into a form of keepers of magic.
Hmmmmm… I could have sworn it was the seers that created the bloodstone to contain untainted magic from the dragons. It was how the last dragon uprising was created. It might have work too, if the stupid human gods hadn’t came and ruined everything.
So is the sad anomalies that are appearing everywhere the result of the dragons being defeated?
Personally, I think those have more to do with tampering with the Bloodstone(s).
Personally, I hope that the defeat of the elder dragons plays a larger part of this than the bloodstone. Causing a greater problem by trying to do good offers an intriguing and nuanced scenario. Things going awry because of tampering with a magic rock has a lot of potential to be cliche. Either way could be played well or poorly, of course.
Though somewhat informed speculation, this is none the less speculation, and frankly, speculating is all either of us can do, is it not?
Magic is a gift from the human god Abaddon. It was sealed within the bloodstones by the other gods, so it is logical to conclude that the magic we had in the world was already restricted.
It took 5 gods to seal the magic of the world in the bloodstone. so calling either of it’s five fragments a “magic rock”, is kinda equivalent to calling a dragon an annoying lizard.
If Lazarus have indeed consumed the power of the bloodstone, he is probably equivalent in power, to one of the human a gods, which would put him slightly above an elder dragons.
We have seen one Mursaat return from the dead. With the power of the bloodstone, it is not unthinkable that he could either revive his race completely, or infuse the white mantle with Mursaat souls, granting them power of an equivalent level.If killing an elder dragon is equivalent to a mortar shell of magic dropping on Tyria, this “magic rock” that was just destroyed, is more like a nuclear explosion of magic, dropping on the world, in compare.
This “cliché”, is somewhat like a Chernobyl disaster, except that it just created a genuine Mursaat god.I am quite confident, that we will get to see Both of the two scenarios play out. We really do not want any more stray magic in the world. Slaying the elder dragon was a problem prior to the bloodstone’s destruction. Now the elder dragons being alive, is a minor problem, compared to having them die off.
We cannot slay neither the elder dragons nor Lazarus. Killing either would release too much raw magic into the environment. Unless of course we find a way to store the magic.One solution to this could be to do with the raw magic, what Kormir did with Abaddons power. Powerful individuals could be used as vessels, to ascend into a form of keepers of magic.
Hmmmmm… I could have sworn it was the seers that created the bloodstone to contain untainted magic from the dragons. It was how the last dragon uprising was created. It might have work too, if the stupid human gods hadn’t came and ruined everything.
Wasnt it only Abaddons fault though? He was the one that started meddling with the bloodstone.
So is the sad anomalies that are appearing everywhere the result of the dragons being defeated?
Personally, I think those have more to do with tampering with the Bloodstone(s).
Personally, I hope that the defeat of the elder dragons plays a larger part of this than the bloodstone. Causing a greater problem by trying to do good offers an intriguing and nuanced scenario. Things going awry because of tampering with a magic rock has a lot of potential to be cliche. Either way could be played well or poorly, of course.
Though somewhat informed speculation, this is none the less speculation, and frankly, speculating is all either of us can do, is it not?
Magic is a gift from the human god Abaddon. It was sealed within the bloodstones by the other gods, so it is logical to conclude that the magic we had in the world was already restricted.
It took 5 gods to seal the magic of the world in the bloodstone. so calling either of it’s five fragments a “magic rock”, is kinda equivalent to calling a dragon an annoying lizard.
If Lazarus have indeed consumed the power of the bloodstone, he is probably equivalent in power, to one of the human a gods, which would put him slightly above an elder dragons.
We have seen one Mursaat return from the dead. With the power of the bloodstone, it is not unthinkable that he could either revive his race completely, or infuse the white mantle with Mursaat souls, granting them power of an equivalent level.If killing an elder dragon is equivalent to a mortar shell of magic dropping on Tyria, this “magic rock” that was just destroyed, is more like a nuclear explosion of magic, dropping on the world, in compare.
This “cliché”, is somewhat like a Chernobyl disaster, except that it just created a genuine Mursaat god.I am quite confident, that we will get to see Both of the two scenarios play out. We really do not want any more stray magic in the world. Slaying the elder dragon was a problem prior to the bloodstone’s destruction. Now the elder dragons being alive, is a minor problem, compared to having them die off.
We cannot slay neither the elder dragons nor Lazarus. Killing either would release too much raw magic into the environment. Unless of course we find a way to store the magic.One solution to this could be to do with the raw magic, what Kormir did with Abaddons power. Powerful individuals could be used as vessels, to ascend into a form of keepers of magic.
Hmmmmm… I could have sworn it was the seers that created the bloodstone to contain untainted magic from the dragons. It was how the last dragon uprising was created. It might have work too, if the stupid human gods hadn’t came and ruined everything.
Wasnt it only Abaddons fault though? He was the one that started meddling with the bloodstone.
The 6 gods transported the bloodstone to Arah and empowered the bloodstone with magic, which unbeknownst to them was Zhaitan’s magic.
Also, the 5 gods were the ones who broke the bloodstone into 5 pieces and threw it into the volcano which dispersed the bloodstones across Tyria.
So all gods participated in bloodstone meddling.
Darcshriek is correct: magic on Tyria predated the arrival of the gods. The seers locked it up in the Bloodstone, and the ‘gift of magic’ came from the gods returning some of that magic to the world.
From my perspective, I don’t think ‘solving the dragon problem’ will necessarily mean the end of the game. It’s been brought up as the big problem now, but there are lots of directions they could go if the dragons run out, including a variety of other antagonists known, hinted at, and completely unforeseen.
That said, I do think it would be better to space the dragons out with other antagonists in between rather than having them all line up and then ask the question of what else?
To those who think Scarlet hate means she’s succeeded as a villain:
People don’t hate Scarlet like Game of Thrones fans hate Joffrey.
They hate her the way Star Wars fans hate Jar Jar Binks.
People don’t hate Scarlet like Game of Thrones fans hate Joffrey.
They hate her the way Star Wars fans hate Jar Jar Binks.
So is the sad anomalies that are appearing everywhere the result of the dragons being defeated?
Personally, I think those have more to do with tampering with the Bloodstone(s).
Personally, I hope that the defeat of the elder dragons plays a larger part of this than the bloodstone. Causing a greater problem by trying to do good offers an intriguing and nuanced scenario. Things going awry because of tampering with a magic rock has a lot of potential to be cliche. Either way could be played well or poorly, of course.
Though somewhat informed speculation, this is none the less speculation, and frankly, speculating is all either of us can do, is it not?
Magic is a gift from the human god Abaddon. It was sealed within the bloodstones by the other gods, so it is logical to conclude that the magic we had in the world was already restricted.
It took 5 gods to seal the magic of the world in the bloodstone. so calling either of it’s five fragments a “magic rock”, is kinda equivalent to calling a dragon an annoying lizard.
If Lazarus have indeed consumed the power of the bloodstone, he is probably equivalent in power, to one of the human a gods, which would put him slightly above an elder dragons.
We have seen one Mursaat return from the dead. With the power of the bloodstone, it is not unthinkable that he could either revive his race completely, or infuse the white mantle with Mursaat souls, granting them power of an equivalent level.If killing an elder dragon is equivalent to a mortar shell of magic dropping on Tyria, this “magic rock” that was just destroyed, is more like a nuclear explosion of magic, dropping on the world, in compare.
This “cliché”, is somewhat like a Chernobyl disaster, except that it just created a genuine Mursaat god.I am quite confident, that we will get to see Both of the two scenarios play out. We really do not want any more stray magic in the world. Slaying the elder dragon was a problem prior to the bloodstone’s destruction. Now the elder dragons being alive, is a minor problem, compared to having them die off.
We cannot slay neither the elder dragons nor Lazarus. Killing either would release too much raw magic into the environment. Unless of course we find a way to store the magic.One solution to this could be to do with the raw magic, what Kormir did with Abaddons power. Powerful individuals could be used as vessels, to ascend into a form of keepers of magic.
Hmmmmm… I could have sworn it was the seers that created the bloodstone to contain untainted magic from the dragons. It was how the last dragon uprising was created. It might have work too, if the stupid human gods hadn’t came and ruined everything.
Wasnt it only Abaddons fault though? He was the one that started meddling with the bloodstone.
The 6 gods transported the bloodstone to Arah and empowered the bloodstone with magic, which unbeknownst to them was Zhaitan’s magic.
Also, the 5 gods were the ones who broke the bloodstone into 5 pieces and threw it into the volcano which dispersed the bloodstones across Tyria.
So all gods participated in bloodstone meddling.
Well i only read the wiki about this (here the link https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bloodstone), but if i understand correctly meddling with the bloodstone was at the beginning only abaddon. The other gods only started after doric pleaded for help. So didnt they simply try (and fail if you will) to fix the problems abaddon caused?
I have a question. We already kill Zaithan and Mordy, right? So Why their minions still on tyria? Shouldn’t they died yet?
Vlad Streavious – Tarnished Coast
Afaik, each map remains frozen in time. We haven’t seen any map with Risen that takes place after Zhaitans defeat. Same goes for Mordremoth and the Mordrem. Although I believe it is mentioned somewhere that they are still around, I do not know in which state. My guess would be that there are no new Risen and Mordrem being created, and those that are left function on auto-pilot (doing what they would normally without orders from their master).
I have a question. We already kill Zaithan and Mordy, right? So Why their minions still on tyria? Shouldn’t they died yet?
It doesn’t work like that. We’ve seen several events with the risen after Zhaitan’s death (the Arah explorable paths, and Tequatl’s power boost in LS1) that show they’re carrying on more or less exactly as before, and there’s a line in the latest LS episode that the mordrem are still all over the place, and if anything, even more violent.
The minions don’t rely on the dragons to exist. They only need them to give direction. Think of it like a ruler and their army- just because the ruler dies doesn’t mean the troops all die too. What it does mean is the troops can’t receive new orders, or function as an organized whole anymore.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
I have a question. We already kill Zaithan and Mordy, right? So Why their minions still on tyria? Shouldn’t they died yet?
Two reasons:
First off, the death of an Elder Dragon does not mean the death of its minions. Both Tequatl’s power boost and Arah explorable happen post-Zhaitan’s death. So not only do they remain around, but they have a chance of absorbing the lost magic of their dragon to become stronger.
Second off, as we see in those two aforementioned cases, dragon minions can continue to spread corruption, it’s merely at a far inferior rate.
Basically speaking, killing Elder Dragons doesn’t remove the threat, it just reduces the threat greatly. However, they’re also a lot less coordinated – with no head to lead them, they’re basically acting on the final orders they were given.
This is a bit more interesting with the Mordrem Guard since they weren’t corrupted traditionally but functioned on continuous orders – and as Rox said, now that their master’s voice is gone they’re erratic.
Furthermore, maps are frozen in time except where in those maps they’re influenced by LW stuff (where they become frozen in that release’s time), so when we go to Straits of Devastation, we’re still seeing pre-Zhaitan’s death events.
This is one of my biggest caveats with Caithe’s “doing so may kill the sylvari race but Mordremoth must die” proclamations, since she knows dragon minions don’t die if the Elder Dragons do (see Zhaitan).
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
It’s possible that Caithe was unsure because the sylvari work so differently to other minions… and, possibly, also that Mordremoth’s minions might operate differently to Zhaitan’s in general.
It’s also worth noting that in S3E1:
Caithe admits to having been confused in the egg-stealing event due to the trying to keep Mordremoth’s influence, her own thoughts, and her Wyld Hunt seperate. She seems to have been able to resist any attempt Mordremoth made to take control or turn her directly against her Wyld Hunt, but it seems that he was able to insert some thoughts that she didn’t realise were Mordremoth’s, such as “don’t trust anyone, not even the Commander.” It seems likely that Mordremoth inserted the idea in her head that killing Mordremoth would result in the death of the sylvari race, and she didn’t recognise that it was an insert and thought it was her own conclusion.
Well i only read the wiki about this (here the link https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bloodstone), but if i understand correctly meddling with the bloodstone was at the beginning only abaddon. The other gods only started after doric pleaded for help. So didnt they simply try (and fail if you will) to fix the problems abaddon caused?
The wiki can be unreliable when not quoting directly from primary sources. People tend to mix their own conclusions with fact, and the administration tends to take an ‘all parties are guilty’ approach when arguments brew up due to someone trying to correct it, to the point where people have given up trying to keep the lore sections of the wiki factually accurate.
Sad, but true.
If you look at the Scriptures, a lot of them appear to be referring to the first student of the god to be taught magic – Grenth being the most direct about it, but you can come to the same conclusion by reading between the lines with the scriptures of Lyssa and Dwayna.
Furthermore, when you do the Seer path, Randall simply talks about the gods (plural), not Abaddon specifically.
What seems to be the case is that all the gods were involved, but it was Abaddon who took it too far and created problems.
To those who think Scarlet hate means she’s succeeded as a villain:
People don’t hate Scarlet like Game of Thrones fans hate Joffrey.
They hate her the way Star Wars fans hate Jar Jar Binks.
People don’t hate Scarlet like Game of Thrones fans hate Joffrey.
They hate her the way Star Wars fans hate Jar Jar Binks.
It’s possible that Caithe was unsure because the sylvari work so differently to other minions… and, possibly, also that Mordremoth’s minions might operate differently to Zhaitan’s in general.
It’s also worth noting that in S3E1:
Caithe admits to having been confused in the egg-stealing event due to the trying to keep Mordremoth’s influence, her own thoughts, and her Wyld Hunt seperate. She seems to have been able to resist any attempt Mordremoth made to take control or turn her directly against her Wyld Hunt, but it seems that he was able to insert some thoughts that she didn’t realise were Mordremoth’s, such as “don’t trust anyone, not even the Commander.” It seems likely that Mordremoth inserted the idea in her head that killing Mordremoth would result in the death of the sylvari race, and she didn’t recognise that it was an insert and thought it was her own conclusion.
Well i only read the wiki about this (here the link https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bloodstone), but if i understand correctly meddling with the bloodstone was at the beginning only abaddon. The other gods only started after doric pleaded for help. So didnt they simply try (and fail if you will) to fix the problems abaddon caused?
The wiki can be unreliable when not quoting directly from primary sources. People tend to mix their own conclusions with fact, and the administration tends to take an ‘all parties are guilty’ approach when arguments brew up due to someone trying to correct it, to the point where people have given up trying to keep the lore sections of the wiki factually accurate.
Sad, but true.
If you look at the Scriptures, a lot of them appear to be referring to the first student of the god to be taught magic – Grenth being the most direct about it, but you can come to the same conclusion by reading between the lines with the scriptures of Lyssa and Dwayna.
Furthermore, when you do the Seer path, Randall simply talks about the gods (plural), not Abaddon specifically.
What seems to be the case is that all the gods were involved, but it was Abaddon who took it too far and created problems.
Well i dont know how accurate it is but the wiki also has the conversation you mentioned (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Ruined_City_of_Arah_). And from that conversation i see no contradiction to the bloodstone article. Also i never said the other human gods werent involved. It was only my understannding that Abaddon started messing with the bloodstone and in order to fix his “mess” the other gods intervened by splittting the bloodstone etc. to limit the magic one could wield. Essentially agrueing that Abaddon is the one resposible and the other gods merely tried to do damage control.
Also from my understanding after the human gods imprisoned Abaddon they tried to erase all knowledge of Abaddon in Tyria, so does Randall even now about Abaddon? I mean what he is saying isnt wrong perse, since at that time Abaddon was a human god but i wounldnt be surprised if the other gods, after Abaddons fall, lied about who gave out the magic.
There is a contradiction – Randall says the gods plural recovered the bloodstone and gave magic to humanity. Now, that can be interpreted as meaning Abaddon as one of the gods, but there’s no support to the concept that Abaddon alone was involved in the gift of magic, and there is evidence to the contrary.
There is mention that Abaddon was largely in charge (until Doric arrived and the other gods decided to break the Bloodstone), but he wasn’t exclusively involved.
Regarding knowledge of Abaddon: They erased it before the Exodus, but that knowledge was rediscovered during Nightfall.
To those who think Scarlet hate means she’s succeeded as a villain:
People don’t hate Scarlet like Game of Thrones fans hate Joffrey.
They hate her the way Star Wars fans hate Jar Jar Binks.
People don’t hate Scarlet like Game of Thrones fans hate Joffrey.
They hate her the way Star Wars fans hate Jar Jar Binks.