Guild Wars 2

Hello Fellow Tyrians.

Maybe this is something that could put my life in risk by saying it but I’ve been suspecting for a while that queen Jennah isn’t a real person.

The last speech and some of the events in Edge of Destiny made me believe that she’s just an illusion cast by countess Anise and I believe that she’s the real ruller.

I would explain more, but I think I’m being followed by shining blade agents.

Now seriously. Do you think this is possible?

Come on… not a single comment??
You’re breaking my heart…

She’s not real. She’s a video game NPC

Lazerator.3482:

She’s not real. She’s a video game NPC

I am Konig, and I approve this post.

But are you real, or are you but a forum account…?
I don’t know what to believe any more!

It’s actually quite probable that we all are just part of a computer simulation, probably several iterations deep within another simulation, that is within another simulation, etc.

She may not even be an illusion by the Countess. mesmers are all about trickery. The Queen may not exist at all O.o

Isn’t “not existing” kind of the definition of an illusion?

Can be, but doesn’t have to be. For example, if she is an illusion of somebody elses in order to perform the functions of a queen, then she exists in some kind of capacity. What I suggested, is that she doesn’t actually exist in any capacity at all. because mesmers are all about deception. So, I’ve whimsically taken it to an illogical extreme.

Well thanks to Angel we know that Mesmers can make illusions in people’s mind that don’t show to other people so they just think they’re insane.
… Oh wait that was some super big secret even Mesmers don’t talk about.

Hahaha. That’s better.
But in all seriousness, don’t you think that countess Anise is capable of this level of deception?
Or maybe the countess is the queen in disguise… I’m thinking that the queen and the countess are the same person.

Amidahla syndrome. eh? :P

Dustfinger.9510:

Amidahla syndrome. eh? :P

Something like that. But with mesmerism.
I think the queen wasn’t prepared to be attacked at the pavilion. The whole event just let us see that she’s been an illusion all the way.

I am actually tempted to agree with it.

There were no clear hints of an attack on the pavillon during the last speech, yet the Queen disappeared into butterflies at the sign of danger.

Another thing to consider: Rants about Scarlet aside, she has been portrayed as an exceptionally cunning individual: to which I wonder, how is it possible she could not have predicted the Queen being a clone? Or perhaps, the “Clone” was being so utterly perfected by Anise to be the queen herself, that distinguishing such was impossible even for Scarlet?
Wouldn’t Scarlet’s Asuran Magitech have allowed her to know that the Queen was in fact a construct made out of chaotic magic?

Also – A normal Clone, may have just shattered when the ledge the “Queen” was on wakitten by the explosion. What reason could ever compel a magical, ephemeral creation to stare up in worry at Lord Faren before disappearing, causing him to risk his life in the process? It could just be that the Clone acted so naturally because it -was- the Queen.

This can mean two things:

1) She will be a behind the curtain ruler at all times – why ever risk her life for pubblic attendances, if she can Always appear in the form of an illusion from her favorite mesmer? Rather hypocrital when giving the “No matter the danger, I’ll still celebrate the pavillon.” A behind the curtain ruler, is no ruler at all, most of the time.

2) She does indeed not exist, or is Anise herself.

Either options leave me a bit bitter, for some reason.

Now, when will we have an actual Charr racial leader, I wonder? Squabbling, desk-dwellers are hardly compelling Tribunes.

Ludovicus.7980:

But in all seriousness, don’t you think that countess Anise is capable of this level of deception?
Or maybe the countess is the queen in disguise… I’m thinking that the queen and the countess are the same person.

Isn’t Jennah older than Anise, though? They’re at the very least about the same age.

So for your tinfoil hat theory to work, Anise would have had to make an illusion of Jennah (as a young kid/baby) while Anise herself was just a young kid/baby. That, or commit a brainwash of just about every noble, royal, Shining Blade, and most citizens of DR/Kryta/Tyria. Or just be some massive conspiracy that, for some odd reason despite being the savior of Kryta, our PCs aren’t in on.

Elesh.6192:

Now, when will we have an actual Charr racial leader, I wonder? Squabbling, desk-dwellers are hardly compelling Tribunes.

We have three. They’re called Imperators. You can talk to one, and he insults you if you’re charr. For being in the wrong place for your puny ranking, Centurion/Legionnaire.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Ludovicus.7980:

But in all seriousness, don’t you think that countess Anise is capable of this level of deception?
Or maybe the countess is the queen in disguise… I’m thinking that the queen and the countess are the same person.

Isn’t Jennah older than Anise, though? They’re at the very least about the same age.

So for your tinfoil hat theory to work, Anise would have had to make an illusion of Jennah (as a young kid/baby) while Anise herself was just a young kid/baby. That, or commit a brainwash of just about every noble, royal, Shining Blade, and most citizens of DR/Kryta/Tyria. Or just be some massive conspiracy that, for some odd reason despite being the savior of Kryta, our PCs aren’t in on.

Elesh.6192:

Now, when will we have an actual Charr racial leader, I wonder? Squabbling, desk-dwellers are hardly compelling Tribunes.

We have three. They’re called Imperators. You can talk to one, and he insults you if you’re charr. For being in the wrong place for your puny ranking, Centurion/Legionnaire.

It’s not necessary for Anise to be the only one with the capability of creating the Jennah’s illusion. I don’t think she’s alone in the deception. So that means that when Anise was a child, someone else was maintaining the illusion (Anise’s mesmer master maybe? The order of whispers? The shining blade?)
The point is that there are plenty of ways to make it work.
Or maybe Jennah died a while ago and the Anise is perpetuating the illusion in order not only to be in power, but in order to prevent Kryta from fall into chaos.
I wonder if minister Caudecus suspects something.

Humans are not real, it’s another charr legion with mesmer illusions.

If this were the case, here’s how it would work:

Jennah grew up and lived a normal royal life, but when she became queen made an illusion of herself and then recreated herself as Anise. Anise would be the one with the fake back story, not the queen.

Since she’s the queen, she could probably go over the heads of the Shining Blade commanders and make herself as Anise the head.

How much do we know about Anise? I’ve played through all 3 of the human story lines, and I can’t remember ever seeing Anise and Jennah apart.

robinoz.3958:

If this were the case, here’s how it would work:

Jennah grew up and lived a normal royal life, but when she became queen made an illusion of herself and then recreated herself as Anise. Anise would be the one with the fake back story, not the queen.

Since she’s the queen, she could probably go over the heads of the Shining Blade commanders and make herself as Anise the head.

How much do we know about Anise? I’ve played through all 3 of the human story lines, and I can’t remember ever seeing Anise and Jennah apart.

I think in the noble path, when you attend to a party, you see Anise apart from Jennah. And in the street rat path, when she casts an illusion over you, she’s away from the Queen as well. But that doesn’t mean anything.

Anise is mentioned in edge of destiny. She’s the queen’s guard just as she is now. I’m at page 338 of 372 and I’ve read nothing about her background. Just that she’s always besides the Queen, thing that makes it even more suspicious.

If this comes to be true, maybe Caudecus is not such a bad guy. He might just suspicious about the Queen and the safety of the realm.

On the other hand, we have Anise showing frustration by Logan trying to be beside Jennah all the time. That’s suspicious…

Counter argument to Jennah is an illusion – a theory which is as asinine as Grenth=Menzies (both being related to darkness and destruction; one a half-god, the other implied to be one; etc.) which I came up for laughs a long while back. Edge of Destiny, Jennah and Anise are alone together, and they’re having a conversation. Only counter-argument is that Anise is mentally unstable, in which I doubt she’d be able to maintain such an elaborate act.

robinoz.3958:

How much do we know about Anise? I’ve played through all 3 of the human story lines, and I can’t remember ever seeing Anise and Jennah apart.

End of Street Rat Apothecary step; throughout the Trial of Julias Zammon during Noble storyline (as well as going with Anise’s plan, and choosing who’s plan to go with); Unknown Parents story steps that involve Anise – which is about 3 of them. Honestly speaking, the ONLY time yo usee Anise and Jennah together in the human storyline is the lvl 20-30 chapter that’s shared between all humans.

Anise is separate from Jennah a lot.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Counter argument to Jennah is an illusion – a theory which is as asinine as Grenth=Menzies (both being related to darkness and destruction; one a half-god, the other implied to be one; etc.) which I came up for laughs a long while back. Edge of Destiny, Jennah and Anise are alone together, and they’re having a conversation. Only counter-argument is that Anise is mentally unstable, in which I doubt she’d be able to maintain such an elaborate act.

robinoz.3958:

How much do we know about Anise? I’ve played through all 3 of the human story lines, and I can’t remember ever seeing Anise and Jennah apart.

End of Street Rat Apothecary step; throughout the Trial of Julias Zammon during Noble storyline (as well as going with Anise’s plan, and choosing who’s plan to go with); Unknown Parents story steps that involve Anise – which is about 3 of them. Honestly speaking, the ONLY time yo usee Anise and Jennah together in the human storyline is the lvl 20-30 chapter that’s shared between all humans.

Anise is separate from Jennah a lot.

I don’t know man. I’ll wear my tinfoil hat, just in case.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Counter argument to Jennah is an illusion – a theory which is as asinine as Grenth=Menzies (both being related to darkness and destruction; one a half-god, the other implied to be one; etc.) which I came up for laughs a long while back. Edge of Destiny, Jennah and Anise are alone together, and they’re having a conversation. Only counter-argument is that Anise is mentally unstable, in which I doubt she’d be able to maintain such an elaborate act.

robinoz.3958:

How much do we know about Anise? I’ve played through all 3 of the human story lines, and I can’t remember ever seeing Anise and Jennah apart.

End of Street Rat Apothecary step; throughout the Trial of Julias Zammon during Noble storyline (as well as going with Anise’s plan, and choosing who’s plan to go with); Unknown Parents story steps that involve Anise – which is about 3 of them. Honestly speaking, the ONLY time yo usee Anise and Jennah together in the human storyline is the lvl 20-30 chapter that’s shared between all humans.

Anise is separate from Jennah a lot.

But if Anise is the queen, and “Jennah” is the illusion, then Anise being away from Jennah isn’t an issue, unless Jennah is also somewhere doing something. From the player’s perspective it can be said that this theory is sound. Until we see a moment where Queen Jennah is somewhere doing something while Anise is doing something and they are separated by a great distance at the same time… My personal opinion is that on top of this the Shining Blade has assassinated Smoldur and Malice in order to create a situation for the Treaty. Now their scouts parade around will masterful illusions of the leaders of the charr legions Only Bangar knows the truth!

Narcemus.1348:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Counter argument to Jennah is an illusion – a theory which is as asinine as Grenth=Menzies (both being related to darkness and destruction; one a half-god, the other implied to be one; etc.) which I came up for laughs a long while back. Edge of Destiny, Jennah and Anise are alone together, and they’re having a conversation. Only counter-argument is that Anise is mentally unstable, in which I doubt she’d be able to maintain such an elaborate act.

robinoz.3958:

How much do we know about Anise? I’ve played through all 3 of the human story lines, and I can’t remember ever seeing Anise and Jennah apart.

End of Street Rat Apothecary step; throughout the Trial of Julias Zammon during Noble storyline (as well as going with Anise’s plan, and choosing who’s plan to go with); Unknown Parents story steps that involve Anise – which is about 3 of them. Honestly speaking, the ONLY time yo usee Anise and Jennah together in the human storyline is the lvl 20-30 chapter that’s shared between all humans.

Anise is separate from Jennah a lot.

But if Anise is the queen, and “Jennah” is the illusion, then Anise being away from Jennah isn’t an issue, unless Jennah is also somewhere doing something. From the player’s perspective it can be said that this theory is sound. Until we see a moment where Queen Jennah is somewhere doing something while Anise is doing something and they are separated by a great distance at the same time… My personal opinion is that on top of this the Shining Blade has assassinated Smoldur and Malice in order to create a situation for the Treaty. Now their scouts parade around will masterful illusions of the leaders of the charr legions Only Bangar knows the truth!

Bangar, you and me. Just be careful with the largos assas-

Logically, if Anise is the queen and Jennah the illusion then seeing Anise away from the queen does not disprove the premise.

However, seeing Jennah away from Anise when we know of Anise’s whereabouts, that would be something to look for.

Honestly I think this is entirely bogus but fun to analyze. I haven’t read the books so I don’t have anything to go on with those. Is there nothing in the books where we can conclusively prove Anise and Jennah are in two different spots at the same time?

robinoz.3958:

Logically, if Anise is the queen and Jennah the illusion then seeing Anise away from the queen does not disprove the premise.

However, seeing Jennah away from Anise when we know of Anise’s whereabouts, that would be something to look for.

Honestly I think this is entirely bogus but fun to analyze. I haven’t read the books so I don’t have anything to go on with those. Is there nothing in the books where we can conclusively prove Anise and Jennah are in two different spots at the same time?

Nope, but they talk to each other when they see Kralkatorrik. And it seems there was no one around paying attention to them, that’s why Konig points to Anise’s mental instability.
I think of that like talking to yourself. She had just entered the mind of a dragon, she was in awe.
On the other hand, the fact that the book doesn’t explicitly mention anyone around doesn’t mean it implies that. Evonhawke was quite a chaos back then. Plus if the theory is to be believed, Anise’s act is supposed to be part of her daily life. She could be performing the act on pure inertia.

Anise is certainly powerful enough to pull it off. I remember a mission in prison where she summoned about 15 phantasms (not clones, phantasms) all at once and took out most of the Ministry Guard on her own. In another story mission, she was able to conjure an illusion on the player that triggered when they reached a bandit hideout. From this I can speculate that she is more than capable enough of creating a clone that she can control with extreme precision and from great distances.

There is other circumstantial evidence to back up this crazy theory. Jennah and Anise never seem to argue. It’s highly unlikely for a ruler to always agree with their bodyguard by the very nature of the bodyguard’s position. Anise has to constantly restrict Jennah’s actions to keep her safe and no one like restrictions but Jennah doesn’t seem to mind. In fact, she seems apathetic. Clones react the same way when told to suicide bomb enemies.

In Caudecus Manor’s story dungeon, Jennah didn’t save herself. I find it hard to believe someone capable of creating an illusion of Kralkatorrik while casing another illusion over all the human and char warriors to petrify them would struggle against a handful of bandits. What’s even more odd is that she didn’t even pant after doing it so she’s obviously a lot stronger than she lets on… or the first novel has some extremely bad writing. Either way, at the very least, she could have easily blinked away from the bandits’ field of view and ran away. The only reasons I can think of her staying was either waiting to be rescued or she was a clone whom couldn’t rescue herself.

Another thing Jennah does is keep insisting Logan rejoin the fight against the dragons. She said Logan would serve her better in that capacity but, if Anise is the one pulling the strings, she could be getting concerned with Logan being so close all the time. This can be supported with the fiasco at the Watchwork unveiling. If Anise is getting frustrated with Logan being too close, she would naturally try a more blunt, desperate measure to gain some distance. Changing the watchwork to Rytlock and opening old wounds would certainly qualify. Leaving Logan out of planning the Queen’s safety would qualify too. However, the most interesting thing is, I don’t recall Jennah objecting on either occasion. If she really had strong feelings for Logan, I imagine she would have strong words with Anise, regardless of how close the two are. Instead, she blew it under a rug and also asked Logan what he was doing about Scarlet’s invasion. Logan’s too much of a boyscout to leave the toilet seat up so there has to be another reason for Jennah’s change of emotion.

Here’s another interesting thing about the Queen’s speech. The language used implied that Anise made the clone of Jennah. If Jennah is such a powerful mesmer, why would she need Anise to make a clone of her? No matter how convincing Anise’s clone would be, Jennah’s would be better by virtue that it came from her. That is, unless Jennah is just another illusion.

Again, this is all circumstantial but it does make you wonder.

Crossplay.2067:

-snip-

[Puting tin foil hat on]
I couldn’t agree more. I smell a rat there.
Just don’t say it out-loud in divinity’s reach’s streets. Lest you want to get killed by the largos assas-

I am personally on the Jennise bandwagon. Why did Jennah let Anise make the illusion? Because clearly, they’re having some sort of romantic thing. Why else would Jennah be queen for so long without a husband, when I am preeeetty sure that nobody would raise a fuss if she pulled a Victoria and just married Logan and made him prince consort? Why else would Anise and Logan bicker constantly, and he be soooo jealous that she confided in Anise and not him, when Anise is her bodyguard? Anise is way too smug around Logan, as though she has a secret. But maybe her secret is that she is secretly queen Jennah and Anise is her ‘going around town’ form. If that’s the case, Jennah has a mean sadistic streak.

Narcemus.1348:

But if Anise is the queen, and “Jennah” is the illusion, then Anise being away from Jennah isn’t an issue, unless Jennah is also somewhere doing something.

There are points where they’re separate and we’re told they’re doing other things. We see Jennah without Anise just as well as Anise without Jennah.

But still, why would Anise talk to an illusions when she is all alone with said illusion.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

But still, why would Anise talk to an illusions when she is all alone with said illusion.

If she developed some abilities early, they may have been her childhood imaginary friends. Then that particular habit could have developed to use as a sounding board when making descisions.

Or it’s just a quirk, assuming the Queen really is an illusion.

I’d be greatly impressed with the writers if this turned out to be the case. Hints and foreshadowing of a subtle nature, and a great twist. I’d be very happy with it.

…it’s just that the writing we’ve seen so far, both in the main personal story and the LS, has been quite straightforward. No twists.

I’d love it to be true, though; it’d show they have bunnies under their hats and tricks up their sleeves after all.

We do see Jennah in Caudacus Manor story mode and that’s one of the least likely places for Anise to flawlessly maintain the illusion.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Narcemus.1348:

But if Anise is the queen, and “Jennah” is the illusion, then Anise being away from Jennah isn’t an issue, unless Jennah is also somewhere doing something.

There are points where they’re separate and we’re told they’re doing other things. We see Jennah without Anise just as well as Anise without Jennah.

But still, why would Anise talk to an illusions when she is all alone with said illusion.

Jennah without Anise and Anise without Jennah aren’t a problem. Because if Anise can make a separate illusion of Jennah, then who is to say that she cannot just make herself look like Jennah. As to the talking to each other situation, how can you expect her mental state to be perfect after holding together a lie for so many years. I mean from a young age she was probably taught how to create the Jennah illusion, and from then on she had a friend wherever she wanted her. Being unstable enough to “talk to yourself” every once and a while isn’t the same as being nutso wacko crazy.

sigh You know, by the arguments in this thread for the crackpot theory of a seemingly trolling Ludo, then I can very well argument everyone and everything is merely an illusion of Lyssa.

Here’s the truth for you: The Gods never left. In actuality they merely put everyone into stasis in their spaceship that’s buried beneath Orr. Everything that’s been experienced for the past 1326 years has been a simulation.

You cannot disprove it, just like it’ll prove to be impossible to debunk the “Jennah is an illusion” theory simply because 1) she won’t be killed, given how Anet said they’ll treat the Living Story, so having a corpse to verify “she was real” is out of the question and 2) people will just using the very argument that Narcemus uses a variation of – “if we don’t see it happen, how can we know it happens?” Using that very argument, or the argument of a perfect disguise, I can even say this: “Trahearne isn’t the leader of the Pact. It is in fact Scarlet using a mesmer illusion to disguise herself as Trahearne!” In the same fluid motion, I can argue that Rytlock Brimstone doesn’t exist, he’s actually just a prototype Watchknight – why do you think he really didn’t want to go to the Pavilion? Because he feared being reprogrammed, obviously. Besides, how else could Anise mimic Rytlock’s words from an event she didn’t witness?

The ridiculousness of the theory – in that it’s such a “mind-bending” twist that it’s perfect material for an M. Night Shyamalan movie – is really all the proof you need that it won’t be the case. ArenaNet has, since day one, never been good at twist plots. Given Scarlet, I don’t think they suddenly got someone onto the team who is.

Besides, we got interviews where we’re told that Jennah has actual, and genuine, emotions (she loves Logan), so are you also going to argue that a mere illusion, a fake creation, has genuine emotions?

For Jennah to be a non-existent being, there’d have to be such a huge massive conspiracy going about that the very minds of nearly all Krytans would require to be brainwashed; official documents forged; someone other than Anise requiring to know and orchestrate it while Anise was a mere baby to fake that Jennah existed, and most important would require the claimed-to-be-near-fanatical Shining Blade to break their solemn duty of upholding the Krytan monarchy with Salma’s bloodline. Because Jennah not existing means, there is no more heir, because Jennah is the last heir. It means her father – be it the one-time-mentioned King Rodrick or someone else – would require to have never had a child.

There is just too much lore established to require countering, and too much conspiracy-ness needed to make it reasonable. And ArenaNet has shown that those types of plots… are not the kinds of plots they make.

shots fired! shots fired!

Konig Des Todes.2086:

For Jennah to be a non-existent being, there’d have to be such a huge massive conspiracy going about that the very minds of nearly all Krytans would require to be brainwashed; official documents forged; someone other than Anise requiring to know and orchestrate it while Anise was a mere baby to fake that Jennah existed, and most important would require the claimed-to-be-near-fanatical Shining Blade to break their solemn duty of upholding the Krytan monarchy with Salma’s bloodline. Because Jennah not existing means, there is no more heir, because Jennah is the last heir. It means her father – be it the one-time-mentioned King Rodrick or someone else – would require to have never had a child.

I at least, and probably most in this thread, acknowledge this is a ludicrous theory. It’s fun to attempt creating a sound argument even if it will only remain valid, though.

However, you’re looking at it wrong. It isn’t that Anise has faked Jennah’s entire existence. As you said, that’d be difficult to accomplish. Jennah is masquerading as Anise and creating an illusion of herself. For this theory to hold any ground, Anise has to have the fake backstory. Jennah could very easily appoint someone to be head of the Shining Blade, so she appoints herself as Anise and now is her own bodyguard. Heck, the Shining Blade might even like the idea. As to their holding a conversation it would be only natural to do so if others are watching or if you’re paranoid of others watching. Better to do so habitually than not.

Simplest answer is best, of course: they’re separate beings who both happen to be powerful mesmers; though Jennah disguising as Anise and creating illusions of herself is quite a fun idea

Konig Des Todes.2086:

-snip-

Ok, ok, ok… calm down. I can agree that it is not the most likely scenario based on the writing style of the writing crew.
And I wasn’t 100% trolling in my first post. I just wanted to put this idea in the table to be analyzed.
I wanted to see the “what if” and it ended being an even more sound theory than I thought in the beginning (wasn’t much).
So I’ll keep myself suspicious about the subject until a red post appears here like they did with the uncategorized fractal.
It’s been a nice ride to hear so many comments and see such passion in both sides of the debate.
I had this suspicions on my own and I didn’t saw them in the web before posting.
Was I the only one suspecting this before I posted it?

Ludovicus.7980:

I had this suspicions on my own and I didn’t saw them in the web before posting.
Was I the only one suspecting this before I posted it?

Honestly the thought never crossed my mind til I saw the title of the thread. She’s doing a darn good job I guess

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Counter argument to Jennah is an illusion – a theory which is as asinine as Grenth=Menzies (both being related to darkness and destruction; one a half-god, the other implied to be one; etc.) which I came up for laughs a long while back. Edge of Destiny, Jennah and Anise are alone together, and they’re having a conversation. Only counter-argument is that Anise is mentally unstable, in which I doubt she’d be able to maintain such an elaborate act.

OBJECTION!

It is thoroughly proved by the “Fight Club” files, and countless other testaments to tricksters, deceivers and mentally unstable subjects that going as far as to build two (or more) individual, even conflicting and argumentative personalities is nothing else but the endgame of a long-term inner and outer facade being held too long.

As the accusation’s thesis that our beloved Queen has indeed something to hide gains in substance the likelihood of a squabble between “Anise” and “Jenna” having any relevant weight in this trial decreases substantially.

what if Jennah started as herself, later on changed into Anise replacing her old self with an illusion to make sure her safety would be guaranteed. (paranoid maybe?) This way Jennah would be older then her second identity Anise and the current Queen would be the illusion and Anise would be Jennah! * Joins Lud’s side *

Nero.8047:

what if Jennah started as herself, later on changed into Anise replacing her old self with an illusion to make sure her safety would be guaranteed. (paranoid maybe?) This way Jennah would be older then her second identity Anise and the current Queen would be the illusion and Anise would be Jennah! * Joins Lud’s side *

That’s one of the possibilities we’ve been considering * ranks growing *

Yeah, Nero this is actually the theory that I have been preferring in my mind. Jennah is indeed real, but she changed her physical appearance at a young age and started creating an illusion as her real self. In my mind, Anise is the real queen, and Jennah is an illusion paraded in front of the people. So Konig, I am not trying to say there is no queen. But think, as a young girl she would go through a vast amount of physical changes, and she could have used this as an opportunity to change name and create a false background for this Anise character and parade a differently developing version of herself as the Illusional Queen. I’m sorry, I wasn’t good at explaining this in my last post. And Konig, I agree that this is an absurd idea, but it’s fun nonetheless, and I will not apologize for participating in a conspiracy theory

I’m on Lud’s side by the mere fact that this theory is more entertaining than the present Living Story.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

ArenaNet has, since day one, never been good at twist plots.

Hey, I really liked the plot twists in Prophecies, involving the Mantle, Shining Blade, etc. Sure, Khilbron was blatantly evil, but the others worked a bit better.

& In Nightfall, having the invasion of Gandara seem to go so well, only to be defeated by demons at the last moment— it set it up so you expected to be playing a war scenario, and then you ended up playing as an underground organisation instead. That was good, too.

So, I don’t agree that ANet have been bad at twists since day one. I CERTAINLY AGREE, however, that GW2’s story is far too straightforward and predictable to indicate that something like Ludo’s theory is probable, though.

White Mantle were pretty blatantly evil – or at least oppressive – if you read the manual (just like Khilbron). And Hot Spring Murders quest made it more so. And other than that, no plot twists existed in Prophecies.

If you didn’t read the manuals, it would be different – because then you wouldn’t know that it was the Vizier who sunk Orr, nor would you know that the White Mantle were oppressing those who didn’t believe in the Unseen Ones.

And it’s kind of funny – earlier I was talking with Thalador about how the lore of the game has changed over the years and I noted something. The Prophecies storyline was written primarily by two individuals who had two different directions they wanted to go – hence why it feels so mix-mashed in the direction it goes. During Factions development, the person who wrote up An Empire Divided left the company in a “less than pleasant” situation and left without explaining the direction he was leading the lore of Cantha. Kind of ironic how the less internal conflict there is for where Anet wants to direct the lore, the less interest it seems to hold.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

White Mantle were pretty blatantly evil – or at least oppressive – if you read the manual (just like Khilbron). And Hot Spring Murders quest made it more so. And other than that, no plot twists existed in Prophecies.

If you didn’t read the manuals, it would be different – because then you wouldn’t know that it was the Vizier who sunk Orr, nor would you know that the White Mantle were oppressing those who didn’t believe in the Unseen Ones.

The Hot Springs Murder is a quest that most people will play after 2 (or quite possibly 3) missions, in which the Mantle fight beside you as allies.

And, even so, there is quite a gulf between “Probable Mantle intimidation used in a murder investigation” and “The people you believed you were helping at Divinity Coast were murdered by the very organisation you fought with to do it”.

As for the Vizier, yes, it was obvious he was hiding something— but it wasn’t obvious he was the Lich, who had been tracking you and the Scepter since it was found.

My only point is this— you (and others) may have disliked them, but I (and others) did not, and I didn’t think it was fair to say ANet have always been as straightforward and predictable as they are in the story of GW2.

Neilos Tyrhanos.5427:

The Hot Springs Murder is a quest that most people will play after 2 (or quite possibly 3) missions, in which the Mantle fight beside you as allies.

And, even so, there is quite a gulf between “Probable Mantle intimidation used in a murder investigation” and “The people you believed you were helping at Divinity Coast were murdered by the very organisation you fought with to do it”.

As for the Vizier, yes, it was obvious he was hiding something— but it wasn’t obvious he was the Lich, who had been tracking you and the Scepter since it was found.

My only point is this— you (and others) may have disliked them, but I (and others) did not, and I didn’t think it was fair to say ANet have always been as straightforward and predictable as they are in the story of GW2.

I agree, but even though I proposed theory I think it’s unlikely due to the way GW2 is written.

You know, what I perhaps think is worse about the whole Pavilion encounter, is that Jennah and Anise do not warn anyone of their plan. They don’t notify Logan, who would be loyal enough to sacrifice his life for this clone that everyone perceives to be Jennah. And Lord Faren even does so (thus kind of making a mockery of Logan really).

So Jennah almost got two people killed…. AGAIN! Just because… ehh… no good reason given.

As pointed out before, Scarlet should have been clever enough to anticipate that Jennah would pull such a stunt. This blunder directly conflicts with her character. Doesn’t anyone and their mother know that Jennah is a powerful mesmer? Certainly Scarlet would know. And since Scarlet made a public threat towards the Queen and her celebration, shouldn’t she expect a mesmer trick? After all, she kind of provoked a response from Jennah. Everyone knew that Scarlet would disrupt the celebration, so there was no excuse for Scarlet to fall for this simple trick.

Also, since the imminent attack by Scarlet was so obvious, why wasn’t there more security?

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

You know, what I perhaps think is worse about the whole Pavilion encounter, is that Jennah and Anise do not warn anyone of their plan. They don’t notify Logan, who would be loyal enough to sacrifice his life for this clone that everyone perceives to be Jennah. And Lord Faren even does so (thus kind of making a mockery of Logan really).

So Jennah almost got two people killed…. AGAIN! Just because… ehh… no good reason given.

As pointed out before, Scarlet should have been clever enough to anticipate that Jennah would pull such a stunt. This blunder directly conflicts with her character. Doesn’t anyone and their mother know that Jennah is a powerful mesmer? Certainly Scarlet would know. And since Scarlet made a public threat towards the Queen and her celebration, shouldn’t she expect a mesmer trick? After all, she kind of provoked a response from Jennah. Everyone knew that Scarlet would disrupt the celebration, so there was no excuse for Scarlet to fall for this simple trick.

Also, since the imminent attack by Scarlet was so obvious, why wasn’t there more security?

simple answer is that you would try and trap scarlet and using tactic to make it look like that they dont get intimidated by her and dont even show any signe of respawns from her treads make her attack i would gess shes lucky that she had a hand held portal

There are different kinds of intelligence. Scarlet is shown to be naturally proficient when dealing with engineering and schooling form various races. So, she’s real booksmart. That doesn’t neccesarily mean she will understand peoples tactics as well as she does their technology.