Queen Jennah kicks out Balthazar
wow, nice catch really…I´m curious how if they are actually aware they removed a temple of one of the Gods.
The question is, at least for me, really simple. I´ll answer with another question. How would people in real life react if someone went and teared down a church and build a rollercoaster in its place. Or if someone decided that Vatican or Mekka are great places for theme parks, or sport stadiums or whatever… Some, not so religius people would go “meh”, but I can imagine most (or considerable ammount at least) of the people would be outraged. Even if the´d rebuilt it somewhere else, there is a fair chance there would be angry mob with torches and stuff
You do realize that the arenas drops corpses of loser into area below. Like a the roman colosseum the ground is infused with blood. What better way to honor the god of war I ask you then an arena full of battle and blood.
@Cardon: I wouldn’t call the descendants of Doric “the chosen people” – that’s just the royal bloodline.
As to how Tyrians would react… I doubt that they’d be overall pleased. But since the Plaza of Balthazar’s still there it wouldn’t be that huge of a deal. I mean, in reality all that was lost was the Seraph’s main training grounds within Divinity’s Reach. It wasn’t an actual arena or temple or anything of the like. Just one statue of a god and some training dummies – the latter of which there are some in Shaemoor.
@Illi: It wasn’t a temple. It was just statues (one of Balthazar, others of soldiers) and training grounds for the Seraph.
Your comparisons are rather poorly drawn, imo – especially the Vatican and Mekka mentions. Since this was just a training ground with a statue of Balthazar and not a temple like you seem to believe, it’d be more akin to taking down a statue of Jesus and meadow for prayer and replacing it with a park.
My aunt’s a nun and her old convent has been bought and renovated as a social gathering place (with the old crypt being replaced as a cafeteria… that’s a little joke for the family there – people now eat where corpses were!). They’re not all that upset about it. They got a new place and moved on.
@Fafnir: Except that the enemies fought are the Watchknights, whom use mesmeric abilities to take on different appearances and attack functions. So there’s not that much blood to be spilled.
However, it is true that they added a large arena of combat. Befitting for the god of war and honor. But on the flip side, I haven’t seen a single statue to any of the Six Gods in said arena. And the old statue got replaced for what is effectively an elitists’ VIP area.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
All you’re killing there are robots that are disguised as the monsters of Tyria, Fafnir. Also, the whole arena is so colorful and cheerful and there is not even one Insignia of Balthazar. I can completely understand how that turns off the Priest roleplayers.
@Konig True, but it fit into the pattern. The only god that didn’t have a “Temple” was Dwayna, for residing on the main street. Melandru had that garden with her statue, Kormir a plaza of learning, Grenth the graveyard, Lyssa these two spirals and Balthazar had the training grounds.
(edited by Cardon.4092)
As a roleplayer from the same community who RPs a priest of Balthazar in this spot since ages, I am of the same opinion as Cardon.
I’ve also opened a thread about it here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/jubilee/What-happened-to-the-shrine-of-Balthazar
@Fanfnir:
The new arena does not honor Balthazar in any way. It is in fact a large playground, a symbol of Queen Jennah’s decadency and waste of money (we’re playing in a world with a weak humanity that has real wars to fight), as well as no real contest at all, due to the lack of true competitors who fight against each other. Also there is not a single connection to the gods implemented.
@Konig:
You’re wrong in one point.
It was in fact a shrine. You can’t just call it a training yard with a statue if there are priests watching over the practising soldiers, Seraph who come to pay respect and their salute to the statue of Balthazar and the warrior priests in just the same manner as they do in the larger temple of the Six, and so on.
It was an obvious clerical area, and lore-wise, there is no reason for the priests of Balthazar as well as all practising soldiers and pious people in the city not to object when Queen Jennah basically wants to drive them out of their domain in a city that’s explicitly called Divinity’s Reach. It’s actually pretty blasphemic if there’s no reason given. Also due to the fact that it’s being replaced by an area of extreme decadency.
(edited by Agroman.7190)
Or, it’s possible that Queen Jennah negotiated a temporary claim to the area, and the priests agreed. The area it’s been replaced with is heavily tied to temporary content, so I doubt it will remain once the month is out. LA has already set a trend of replacing structures with festival-appropriate architecture, only to revert back to the original once it’s time to move on. I highly doubt the training grounds will be gone for long.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
A Priest of Balthazar overseeing training is not all that odd to think about, really. But that wouldn’t make it a shrine in the least. The shrine is a level above the training grounds – at the Plaza of Balthazar itself.
I don’t recall a single Seraph in that spot “coming to pay respects” – and a salute to a priest or statue? So? How does that signify a shrine. In a way, yes, it is a shrine – in that it’s a statue of a god. But it’s no temple.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
A Priest of Balthazar overseeing training is not all that odd to think about, really. But that wouldn’t make it a shrine in the least. The shrine is a level above the training grounds – at the Plaza of Balthazar itself.
I don’t recall a single Seraph in that spot “coming to pay respects” – and a salute to a priest or statue? So? How does that signify a shrine. In a way, yes, it is a shrine – in that it’s a statue of a god. But it’s no temple.
You’re contradicting yourself.
You are denying that it is a shrine and say that it’s “just a training yard with a statue”, but then you call the Plaza of Balthazar (which is just that – a plaza) the true shrine, where there’s basically even less about it honoring Balthazar.
Fighting is the sacred thing about faith in Balthazar, practising the arts of combat, and thus, the true shrine for me was the one that has just been wiped away for no real reason, lorewise.
There’s no real way to end this discussion, because we didn’t have an NPC saying “this is the shrine, not that thing over there”, but for me, the true evidence comes from the place that is truly focussed on honoring the specific god, not from the generic plazas which are the same for every god and only exist to give the city it’s symetry.
@Aaron:
Could you link me some evidence of the Royal Terrace itself being part of the temporary content? I’d appreaciate that.
I do not see how the practice of combat which is the pavilion is not honoring to Balthazar. I mean I could see it being just as honoring as WvW, PvP, or any other sort of combat related scenarios. I mean you have large areas built to be largely challenging to people in order to force them to re-think the way in which they fight. You have large one on one arenas where players can work their way up through the toughest of the tough foes in order to prove their worth. I mean there is just a lot of combat related stuff going on, i would think Balthazar would be proud that he got the entire district devoted to the canthans PAVED OVER in order to provide combat related opportunities.
I do not see how the practice of combat which is the pavilion is not honoring to Balthazar. I mean I could see it being just as honoring as WvW, PvP, or any other sort of combat related scenarios. I mean you have large areas built to be largely challenging to people in order to force them to re-think the way in which they fight. You have large one on one arenas where players can work their way up through the toughest of the tough foes in order to prove their worth. I mean there is just a lot of combat related stuff going on, i would think Balthazar would be proud that he got the entire district devoted to the canthans PAVED OVER in order to provide combat related opportunities.
Only that there is no devotion to Balthazar. Not a single word anywhere.
It would honor Balthazar if it were true PvP, a place where soldiers are gathered to practise and contest, to spread their knowledge and prepare people to go to war.
There’s nothing like that about the new arena in any way.
Or, it’s possible that Queen Jennah negotiated a temporary claim to the area, and the priests agreed. The area it’s been replaced with is heavily tied to temporary content, so I doubt it will remain once the month is out. LA has already set a trend of replacing structures with festival-appropriate architecture, only to revert back to the original once it’s time to move on. I highly doubt the training grounds will be gone for long.
Perhaps the Arena is actually the new and improved training grounds? That why it temporary content the arena after the festival is then turned into a large training ground and a new statue of Balthazar will be placed within it.
I’m the Asura Elementalist that stole all your cookies, well except the oatmeal ones.
Chaos always finds a way, who you think Evil learned it from?
Chaos always finds a way, who you think Evil learned it from?
You’re contradicting yourself.
You are denying that it is a shrine and say that it’s “just a training yard with a statue”, but then you call the Plaza of Balthazar (which is just that – a plaza) the true shrine, where there’s basically even less about it honoring Balthazar.
I’m not contradicting myself. The difference is that the Plaza of Balthazar is where the priests give out blessings, and where people go to seek advice from Balthazar’s priesthood.
To say a training yard is a shrine just because it has a statue of Balthazar there is to say a library’s a shrine because there’s a statue of Kormir there. Or to say that a classroom of a Catholic school is a shrine because there’s a statue of Jesus or Mary in there.
A shrine by definition is a place where people go to pray or seek religious guidance.
But most importantly neither of them are a temple like Cardon and Illi claimed which is what I was originally disputing.
Fighting is the sacred thing about faith in Balthazar, practising the arts of combat, and thus, the true shrine for me was the one that has just been wiped away for no real reason, lorewise.
Noooot really. Fighting is not so much “sacred” as that’s what the god personifies. Otherwise you’d say that dying was sacred in the faith of Grenth – but it’s not. It’s acknowledging death. For Balthazar, it’s not exactly clear (hence the elongated “not”) but if the Zaishen and Priests of Balthazar in GW1 are of any decent example, the situation is that honorable combat that is performed and shown is what’s closest to “sacred” in the followers of Balthazar.
It would honor Balthazar if it were true PvP, a place where soldiers are gathered to practise and contest, to spread their knowledge and prepare people to go to war.
There’s nothing like that about the new arena in any way.
It doesn’t really have to be PvP for it to be honorable to Balthazar, let alone sentient being versus sentient being. Combating the Watchknights whom can take on a variety of opponents and abilities would certainly constitute for being Balthazar-esque.
The only thing that prevents the Crown Pavilion from being Balthazar-esque is the lack of mention of him or the priests of Balthazar, really.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
But saying that players’ combat within the pavilion is cannot in any way be honorable to Balthazar is like saying a christian cannot do christian-ly things outside of a church… It is the hearts of the people within that determine whether their actions are honorable to Balthazar, not the location. Plus the Pavilion itself isn’t even an issue from what we are talking about, it is instead the Royal Plaza which took the location of the seraph arena. I am going to go out on a limb and say that the plaza is only a temporary thing, because I can’t even imagine why players would want to go into it after the living story changes over and the emphasis is elsewhere. I’m pretty sure that after this story you will have your seraph arena back.
I’m not contradicting myself. The difference is that the Plaza of Balthazar is where the priests give out blessings, and where people go to seek advice from Balthazar’s priesthood.
To say a training yard is a shrine just because it has a statue of Balthazar there is to say a library’s a shrine because there’s a statue of Kormir there. Or to say that a classroom of a Catholic school is a shrine because there’s a statue of Jesus or Mary in there.
A shrine by definition is a place where people go to pray or seek religious guidance.
But most importantly neither of them are a temple like Cardon and Illi claimed which is what I was originally disputing.
Oh, you are contradicting yourself, but I think you missed to what I was pointing in this regard.
It is because you are reducing one thing to a yard with a statue, while pointing towards another statue with even less surrounding as ‘the real deal’. That is kind of funny, because there is no real argument behind it, no real evidence that makes it more ‘true’.
‘Cause yes, you’re right – a shrine is where people go to seek religious guidance. True. And as we could see in the engine, both shrines of Balthazar were used for just that (the lower one with the yard actually more than the one on Balthazar High Road, to be correct).
Anyway, this discussion is kind of pointless, because Anthony Ordon already pointed out in another thread that ArenaNet saw it as a ‘secondary shrine’ that could be taken away.
Which is kind of ironic, because it had an awful lot more to offer than the one we’re now left with.
Noooot really. Fighting is not so much “sacred” as that’s what the god personifies. Otherwise you’d say that dying was sacred in the faith of Grenth – but it’s not. It’s acknowledging death. For Balthazar, it’s not exactly clear (hence the elongated “not”) but if the Zaishen and Priests of Balthazar in GW1 are of any decent example, the situation is that honorable combat that is performed and shown is what’s closest to “sacred” in the followers of Balthazar.
You’re messing up two things here.
First of all, Grenth is absolutely not about glorifying death, while Balthazar is very much about glorifying combat. These two core mentalities cannot be compared face to face.
Also, while Grenth is the god of death and Balthazar the god of war, neither is personified death/war. They are personified mentalities forming up around these things. They guide humans how to deal with these aspects.
Secondly, Balthazar embraces many forms of combat and conflict.
One the one side, for example, he is the god of glory and the arena. This is where the whole ‘honourable combat’ thing that the Zaishen used to teach on the Battle Isles is applying.
But on the other side he also stands for warfare und victory. Soldiers pray to him, and soldiers need to fight hard and with every option they have to win a battle. The Zaishen are not stupid either. In the old times, they were daemonhunters as well, and among the finest warriors in Tyria. They knew they had to be effective to do the job.
Honor guides them, and reminds them of being dutiful.. And a true warrior’s duty also implies that you have to do what battle asks of you to be victorious.
Because a battlefield and an arena have not much in common except for the fighting itself.
It doesn’t really have to be PvP for it to be honorable to Balthazar, let alone sentient being versus sentient being. Combating the Watchknights whom can take on a variety of opponents and abilities would certainly constitute for being Balthazar-esque.
The only thing that prevents the Crown Pavilion from being Balthazar-esque is the lack of mention of him or the priests of Balthazar, really.
I never said in any way that PvP is the only thing that honors Balthazar about an arena.
I also don’t say that combating the watchknights is against Balthazar.
But I say that the arena in no way properly replaces what was taken away and doesn’t add much either, from a religious point of view.. It comes at the cost of pure decandency. The money that the Krytan crown spent on the Pavillon could have been used better, in a way much more honorable to the gods and/or helpful to the people and the war that is fought outside Divinity’s Reach.
This is why the arena, while embracing Balthazar in some way, makes up for it with a ton of philosophical downsides that are not really honoring him. And that’s all I meant.
I never said in any way that PvP is the only thing that honors Balthazar about an arena.
I also don’t say that combating the watchknights is against Balthazar.But I say that the arena in no way properly replaces what was taken away and doesn’t add much either, from a religious point of view.. It comes at the cost of pure decandency. The money that the Krytan crown spent on the Pavillon could have been used better, in a way much more honorable to the gods and/or helpful to the people and the war that is fought outside Divinity’s Reach.
This is why the arena, while embracing Balthazar in some way, makes up for it with a ton of philosophical downsides that are not really honoring him. And that’s all I meant.
I actually have to agree that building an arena on the grounds of what was once the homes of her subjects wasn’t the smartest idea the queen had for two reasons. The first you mention it doesn’t benefit Divinity’s Reach in the long run unless it turned into a training facility for the Seraph after the whole celebration. The second is it might start the Cantha descendant people to become suspicious that the queen either allowed the collapse to occur or had caused it so she can gain the grounds to build the arena.
I’m the Asura Elementalist that stole all your cookies, well except the oatmeal ones.
Chaos always finds a way, who you think Evil learned it from?
Chaos always finds a way, who you think Evil learned it from?
As far as the Arena goes Anet might think of some situation where the Arena gets heavily damaged by the AetherBlade pirates thus getting rid of the arena , and most probably building something else in it’s place , like a new and better improved training ground , that’s just my speculation I’m not really sure what they plan on doing with the whole thing once the Jubilee is over , but that idea seemed like the most plausible in my mind. After all the pirates broke into the arena once , what’s stopping them from going in again sabotaging the robots thus crippling the guards , causing a distraction , and doing their plan to damage / remove the arena at the same time. This is all just my opinion on the whole thing.
I want to say that during the twitch feed on this release it was stated that the Pavilion was permanent even if the content wasn’t.
“The actual shrine to Balthazar is near the Balthazar waypoint. Yes his statue used to be down there but I’m fairly certain the human god of warfare doesn’t mind having a secondary shrine replaced by an arena.
It wasn’t an oversight. There wasn’t any need for the second, smaller shrine down there."
From Anthony Ordon, on QJ’s forum. I highly doubt we’re getting it back.
Oh, you are contradicting yourself, but I think you missed to what I was pointing in this regard.
It is because you are reducing one thing to a yard with a statue, while pointing towards another statue with even less surrounding as ‘the real deal’. That is kind of funny, because there is no real argument behind it, no real evidence that makes it more ‘true’.‘Cause yes, you’re right – a shrine is where people go to seek religious guidance. True. And as we could see in the engine, both shrines of Balthazar were used for just that (the lower one with the yard actually more than the one on Balthazar High Road, to be correct).
I’m not contradicting myself – you just seem to be not listening, or not understanding, me.
One place is used as a location for religious advice, the other was not. This is what differentiates a shrine from a mere statue. This is what I was saying. This is not contradictory. At all.
I had not once seen any ambient dialogue of someone going to the priest of Balthazar on the lower end. And I remained in the area for a long time in the past to see all the ambient dialogue and actions. The upper statue is where the travelers went to, not the training yard. There would be periodical NPCs going up and asking for a blessing before heading out on the battlefield. The other one just had training seraph turn to the priest and salute before taking a break from their sparring.
Besides, a developer just went and proved me right that it’s the upper Plaza that was the main shrine. Though also proved me wrong in that the other place was also a shrine – but a lesser one, unlike what you and everyone else has been claiming.
Please do refrain from turning your RP into canon, as it seems to me that’s what you’re doing.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
Good call Cardon. I was looking for the statue that used to be in the district myself but I wasn’t able to find it. I assumed it might be in the “Royal Pass” area (which is a whole ’nother problem) because that is basically where it was before but without a pass IDK whats actually there.
Personally I think the male Gods in GW suck (being weak and ineffective for Tyria)… female ones all the way:) . No matter…
Indeed it is so…
THE MASTER HAS SPOKEN!
I’m not contradicting myself – you just seem to be not listening, or not understanding, me.
One place is used as a location for religious advice, the other was not. This is what differentiates a shrine from a mere statue. This is what I was saying. This is not contradictory. At all.
I had not once seen any ambient dialogue of someone going to the priest of Balthazar on the lower end. And I remained in the area for a long time in the past to see all the ambient dialogue and actions. The upper statue is where the travelers went to, not the training yard. There would be periodical NPCs going up and asking for a blessing before heading out on the battlefield. The other one just had training seraph turn to the priest and salute before taking a break from their sparring.
Besides, a developer just went and proved me right that it’s the upper Plaza that was the main shrine. Though also proved me wrong in that the other place was also a shrine – but a lesser one, unlike what you and everyone else has been claiming.
Please do refrain from turning your RP into canon, as it seems to me that’s what you’re doing.
I am listening to you, and I see your point better now, but I simply disagree with it.
The fact that the training yard had no dialogue does, in my opinion, not support the theory that it was not a place where religious advice was sought. Otherwise some of the Seraph would not make their way down there only in order to salute to a priestess (which, by the way, they do the same way in the big Shrine of the Six).
By official statement, it was a secondary shrine, and as such we cannot discredit it completely as a place of religious advice. And it can definitely be regarded as a political faux-pax of Queen Jennah to remove it, in some way.
I do, however, not disagree that the main shrines are the ones atop the High Roads, since that’s what Anthony’s statement basically says.
Also, I’m not turning my RP into canon, since I’m a lore lover myself and have a certain dislike for players who are stretching it too much in order to get what they want. But I simply disagree with the argument that a secondary shrine is not a place of religious advice because of the lack of dialogues.
(edited by Agroman.7190)
I’m not contradicting myself – you just seem to be not listening, or not understanding, me.
One place is used as a location for religious advice, the other was not. This is what differentiates a shrine from a mere statue. This is what I was saying. This is not contradictory. At all.
I had not once seen any ambient dialogue of someone going to the priest of Balthazar on the lower end. And I remained in the area for a long time in the past to see all the ambient dialogue and actions. The upper statue is where the travelers went to, not the training yard. There would be periodical NPCs going up and asking for a blessing before heading out on the battlefield. The other one just had training seraph turn to the priest and salute before taking a break from their sparring.
Besides, a developer just went and proved me right that it’s the upper Plaza that was the main shrine. Though also proved me wrong in that the other place was also a shrine – but a lesser one, unlike what you and everyone else has been claiming.
Please do refrain from turning your RP into canon, as it seems to me that’s what you’re doing.
I am listening to you, and I see your point better now, but I simply disagree with it.
The fact that the training yard had no dialogue does, in my opinion, not support the theory that it was not a place where religious advice was sought. Otherwise some of the Seraph would not make their way down there only in order to salute to a priestess (which, by the way, they do the same way in the big Shrine of the Six).
By official statement, it was a secondary shrine, and as such we cannot discredit it completely as a place of religious advice. And it can definitely be regarded as a political faux-pax of Queen Jennah to remove it, in some way.I do, however, not disagree that the main shrines are the ones atop the High Roads, since that’s what Anthony’s statement basically says.
Also, I’m not turning my RP into canon, since I’m a lore lover myself and have a certain dislike for players who are stretching it too much in order to get what they want. But I simply disagree with the argument that a secondary shrine is not a place of religious advice because of the lack of dialogues.
I think it be kind of cool if the aetherblades, or whomever is controlling them, dressed up as what the people believe Balthazar looks like to try and stir up some trouble for the queen and seraph.
I’m the Asura Elementalist that stole all your cookies, well except the oatmeal ones.
Chaos always finds a way, who you think Evil learned it from?
Chaos always finds a way, who you think Evil learned it from?
i’m not gonna read the whole thread to find out if i’m just echoing someone else, but:
1- that was a minor shrine to balthazar in a greater structure, not a place dedicated to him. in case you haven’t noticed yet, divinity’s reach has 6 “arms”, each with its own god, and those are still there, balthazar included. removing that small shrine is akin to you removing a christmas altar from the table after holiday season is over.
2- i’m pretty sure the god of war would be quite pleased with having a huge kitten arena built in the middle of the capital of humanity, especially since his previous arena (the battle isles) was wiped from the map by an uncaring, oversized lizard.
LegendaryMythril/Zihark Darshell
1- that was a minor shrine to balthazar in a greater structure, not a place dedicated to him. in case you haven’t noticed yet, divinity’s reach has 6 “arms”, each with its own god, and those are still there, balthazar included. removing that small shrine is akin to you removing a christmas altar from the table after holiday season is over.
What you say here does not make sense. At all.
A shrine is by definition a place dedicated to a god or a religion as such. It does not matter if the shrine is minor or not.
Comparing a huge, established structure of both religious and practical meaning to temporay christmas altars is just… no. Seriously.
Everybody here knows about the six-armed structure of Divinity’s Reach. But what does matter, is that every god except for Dwayna did have secondary consecrated places next to the High Roads before. Now, there is a significant change in that pattern.
2- i’m pretty sure the god of war would be quite pleased with having a huge kitten arena built in the middle of the capital of humanity, especially since his previous arena (the battle isles) was wiped from the map by an uncaring, oversized lizard.
One could also say that the god of war would be enraged because there’s not even any dedication to him and that the money hasn’t been spent on promoting the real war outside the city gates.
But on that, we can only speculate after all.
@Aaron:
Could you link me some evidence of the Royal Terrace itself being part of the temporary content? I’d appreaciate that.
I think the fact that the tickets used to access the Terrace are only good for two weeks shows that it’s temporary
1- that was a minor shrine to balthazar in a greater structure, not a place dedicated to him. in case you haven’t noticed yet, divinity’s reach has 6 “arms”, each with its own god, and those are still there, balthazar included. removing that small shrine is akin to you removing a christmas altar from the table after holiday season is over.
What you say here does not make sense. At all.
A shrine is by definition a place dedicated to a god or a religion as such. It does not matter if the shrine is minor or not.
Comparing a huge, established structure of both religious and practical meaning to temporay christmas altars is just… no. Seriously.Everybody here knows about the six-armed structure of Divinity’s Reach. But what does matter, is that every god except for Dwayna did have secondary consecrated places next to the High Roads before. Now, there is a significant change in that pattern.
2- i’m pretty sure the god of war would be quite pleased with having a huge kitten arena built in the middle of the capital of humanity, especially since his previous arena (the battle isles) was wiped from the map by an uncaring, oversized lizard.
One could also say that the god of war would be enraged because there’s not even any dedication to him and that the money hasn’t been spent on promoting the real war outside the city gates.
But on that, we can only speculate after all.
LegendaryMythril/Zihark Darshell
Which we already talked about.
This doesn’t change the fact that this cannot be compared to a temorary christmas altar in any way.
In other words, the move was negotiated with the Balthazar priests, and it’s cool.
Which we already talked about.
This doesn’t change the fact that this cannot be compared to a temorary christmas altar in any way.
it can. it was a minor thing, like a christmas altar. the “church” (aka the actual shrine) was left untouched, and the tiny altar was probably moved elsewhere (it was small enough to be put indoors anyway)
LegendaryMythril/Zihark Darshell
it can. it was a minor thing, like a christmas altar. the “church” (aka the actual shrine) was left untouched, and the tiny altar was probably moved elsewhere (it was small enough to be put indoors anyway)
The ‘minor thing’ you’re talking about was actually much larger than the actual shrine on the High Road. It was a solid structure and had apparantly been there for years.
Thus, the comparison to a christmas altar is just plain wrong.
Oh, you are contradicting yourself, but I think you missed to what I was pointing in this regard.
It is because you are reducing one thing to a yard with a statue, while pointing towards another statue with even less surrounding as ‘the real deal’. That is kind of funny, because there is no real argument behind it, no real evidence that makes it more ‘true’.‘Cause yes, you’re right – a shrine is where people go to seek religious guidance. True. And as we could see in the engine, both shrines of Balthazar were used for just that (the lower one with the yard actually more than the one on Balthazar High Road, to be correct).
Please do refrain from turning your RP into canon, as it seems to me that’s what you’re doing.
Nice strawman you have there! anyways just because ambient npc dialogue doesn’t scream to the high heaves"shrine here kitten kitten big shrine pray pray" doesn’t negate the fact it could be PERCEIVED as a shrine given balthazar’s domain and teachings.
The main fallacy you have by comparing real life religion and stuff like balthazar is that balthazar is hardly bout enlightenment or peace. Old arenas in real life were tributes to the gods because they believed mortal combat was a fitting tribute. It’s not too farfetched to assume that a training ground again can be PERCEIVED as a shrine because how balthazar’s teachings work.
it’s really in the eye of the beholder here. people who follow balthazar would probably see the area as a good tribute because of the training going on but you don’t need priests to sell it as a shrine because alot of warriors and guardians also pray to balthazar because of their nature as martial fighters.
Again you have to really know various religions and actual human behavior to make an argument of debunking it and you literally can’t konig no disrespect. If a player feels a place is a shrine to their god(even metaphorically which that can translate into worship) then you can’t go “kitten WRONG no npcs says it is so you’re WRONG” because then your just trying to force you’re fallacy onto others. edit 1 typo driving me crazy
(edited by Pavees.7281)