Guild Wars 2

Can you tell me why it makes sense to have Charr as a playable race? I mean, the humans killed our great leader, Khan-Ur, stole our homeland, and forced us to flee.

Anet can blame the Flame Legion all they want but all leaders of the High Legions; Ash, Flame, Iron, and Blood, are decendants of Khan-ur. Shouldn’t we hate the human?

MIrra.3604:

Shouldn’t we hate the human?

Are you a Charr?

The general idea of the game story is that up to 1 year before the game begins, the charr and humans were still at war, all races are fighting together right now because there’s a bigger threat out there (the dragons). That said, the war had been going on for over 200 years already, so the humans that actually killed Khan-Ur are long dead, the humans that did all that are basically dead, and while the war had been going on heavily in the ascalon territories, most of tyria was unnafected by it including places where human and charr had been coexisting peacefully for years already (like Lion’s Arch). To be honest after such a long war I really wonder whether it was still going on because of the original reasons or just because of inertia.

SPOILERS AHEAD:
NOVEL SPOILERSAlso, according to the novels, one of the reasons the Vigil was created was to initiate a cease fire between both sides, it was created by human and charr members initially, and the armistice talks had been going on secretly for a while. Queen Jenna comisioned the Vigil to retrieve the claw of khan-ur from the ruins of Ascalon so that she might publicly present it as a gift and peace offering to the Charr

MIrra.3604:

Can you tell me why it makes sense to have Charr as a playable race? I mean, the humans killed our great leader, Khan-Ur, stole our homeland, and forced us to flee.

Anet can blame the Flame Legion all they want but all leaders of the High Legions; Ash, Flame, Iron, and Blood, are decendants of Khan-ur. Shouldn’t we hate the human?

Basically, they had to add SOMETHING, and they wanted to try to be different than dwarves and elves. So we ended up with dog/cat people and tree men instead

Things change. Times change. People change. The humans and charr don’t have to actively like each other to not want to be at war with each other any more and occassionally work with each other.

And yeah, all the Legions were part of the war that started centuries ago. But Ash got smart and used their diplomacy corps to end the war so the Legions could focus on bigger issues.

There are Charr Renegades that still want to war with the Humans and Human Seperatists that want to war with the charr.

Queen Jennah made a peace treaty with the charr that’s still fragile and the Seperatists/Renegades want to see it fail. Also the Charr have other problems, persistant Flame Legion/Ghost attacks they probably can’t afford a war

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Queen_Jennah Read the third paragraph about her and

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Claw_of_the_Khan-Ur

wait omg your a real charr wow cool and ye charr hate humans but must get over it for the sack of the world because if they fought the elder dragons would overtake he rest of the world if those two couldnt get along because they are some of the strongest races and they would divide the world so they have to play nice for now and still i cant imagine your a real life charr

Charr did hate humans for over a millennia. they were all in favor of the war against them but that opened the door to Flame legion oppression. Thankfully, Smodur is more forward thinking than to hold onto ancient vendettas.

Charr sort of STILL hate humans. It’s the treaty that makes them fight alongside and the fact that Elder Dragons take a priority as enemies – and since they are shared enemies, they have to work together. I’m sure if you ask around some Charr NPCs, most of them won’t be happy about the treaty.

The humans didn’t kill your leader or steal your homeland.

So far, no one knows who killed the Khan-Ur, so that’s pure speculation.

And Ascalon isn’t Charr homeland, that would be the Blazeridge Mountains if it was anywhere.

They did force them to flee north of Ascalon though(with divine help), so you got that part right. 1 outta 3 ain’t that bad.

I think the game does a pretty good job of showing that the peace between the humans and the Charr is an uneasy one. Dissenters on both sides, ongoing negotiatians, many NPC’s seem openly distrustful of the opposite race.

What little peace is between them is acknowledged as being a response to a greater external threat. It’s enough for them to be PC’s because none of the races have particularly close relations, it’s not like other games where different races are formal allies within a faction, the races of Tyria are more allies of necessity, although some are closer than others.

Actually, it was said on the main site back when it actually gave lore that humans did assassinate the Khan-Ur. The Ecology of the Charr didn’t mention the Khan-Ur’s killer, but it was eventually said to be humans.

Sadly, that is one of the things lost as a source when ArenaNet decided to dumb-down the main site’s race and profession pages. Another thing to note being that Elementalists utilize the Destruction school of magic.

Also, it’s not the Blazeridge Mountains that were charr homelands, but east of the mountains.

Actually, it never said that in Guild Wars lore. And if it once said it in GW2 lore, it doesn’t now. Konig, you’re a self-confessed proponent of “current lore trumping old lore.” So by your own convictions, this isn’t true.

And stop using this post to reiterate a point you’ve made on another post. The “charr elementalist” thing is covered elsewhere.

And yes, it was east of the Blazeridge, I was being general for the sake of keeping the post short. But if you want to move their homeland even farther away from Ascalon, by all means, post away!

If you want to get technical, the term “Khan-Ur” was never mentioned in Guild Wars lore, but was in GW2 lore. Irregardless, even if the source is no longer linkable (except via some internet history database), doesn’t mean that it isn’t so.

And I’m sorry, but by my own convictions, it is true – the GW2 website comes post-The Ecology of the Charr, so how does my “self-confessed proponent” of current lore trumping old lore (this is not explicitly true, by the way) counter any of that?

Furthermore, I didn’t say diddly squat about charr elementalists. The mention of Elementalists using the Destruction school of magic was an example – irrelevant to charr elementalists specifically – of lore that is no longer source-able but still the case thanks to the same situation of ArenaNet reworking their main site between the time of revealing Guild Wars 2 information and the game’s actual release.

Saying the Blazeridge Mountains isn’t really being “general” – it’s being misleading, since they never controlled the mountains. You could have said “east of Ascalon” if you wanted to be “general.”

Well yeah, there’s a mountain of material never mentioned in Guild Wars. Irregardless, a source no longer linkable doesn’t mean that it is so either. Perhaps we should all imagine that the giant hole at Divinity’s Reach is still the Canthan Quarter?

Well…if currently the humans are said to not be responsible for the death of the Khan-Ur…and at one point in the past it said they were…that’s pretty much “current lore trumping old lore.”

“…lore that is no longer source-able but is still the case…” -that would have carried some weight had it existed as part of the original story, but it was something they added briefly then took away. The Ranger “Pet Attribute Bonus” used to be called “Empathy” during the beta’s, should I /rage whenever someone doesn’t call it that?

And the misleading/general thing…you’re reaching there. But if it makes you feel better then yeah, you have a pretty solid case on this one…I should have specified east of the Blazeridge. My apologies all around. /rollseyes

Obsidian.1328:

Well yeah, there’s a mountain of material never mentioned in Guild Wars. Irregardless, a source no longer linkable doesn’t mean that it is so either. Perhaps we should all imagine that the giant hole at Divinity’s Reach is still the Canthan Quarter?

It was the Canthan (and arts) District, even in lore.

And saying what you did is basically the same as saying “well, it was said on a post by a dev in Guru2, but when the site changed a while back, the posts got removed so it’s no longer applicable” – because that also happened, and the only way we got to preserve it was via screenshots – or like saying “it was in an interview, but the interview was taken down by the interviewer so it’s no longer applicable.”

Lore doesn’t change just because a website goes down or not.

Obsidian.1328:

Well…if currently the humans are said to not be responsible for the death of the Khan-Ur…and at one point in the past it said they were…that’s pretty much “current lore trumping old lore.”

You don’t seem to comprehend. The Ecology of the Charr is older than the site’s statement. The “new lore” would be that humans did it, the “old lore” being that it was unknown. It isn’t “currently the humans are said not to responsible” (unless you can provide a source for something I’ve yet to see), so unless you have such a source the current lore that trumps the old lore is that the humans were revealed to be the culprits.

In short: The new lore is that humans assassinated the Khan-Ur.

Obsidian.1328:

“…lore that is no longer source-able but is still the case…” -that would have carried some weight had it existed as part of the original story, but it was something they added briefly then took away. The Ranger “Pet Attribute Bonus” used to be called “Empathy” during the beta’s, should I /rage whenever someone doesn’t call it that?

No one said anything about raging, lose the attitude buddy.

The original story is always added upon, and by the end of the day what you’re saying is “if I cannot see it, it didn’t happen!” That’s a huge load of self-denial there.

Obsidian.1328:

And the misleading/general thing…you’re reaching there. But if it makes you feel better then yeah, you have a pretty solid case on this one…I should have specified east of the Blazeridge. My apologies all around. /rollseyes

You don’t have to get snarky with me. I’ve seen FAR too many people take things for granted from forum posters or WP potatoes that was said in a specific “this is correct” manner – like how you worded your original post – and end up being wrong about it.

It’s an old habit to make sure people don’t misunderstand.

Lol, jeez you like to argue.

The Canthan district doesn’t exist now…you just agreed with me on that. I don’t know what you’re getting at there.

As for the assassination thing, let me get this straight: You’re taking a comment made by a dev in an interview in a fansite, that then got deleted for w/e reason, and then is never mentioned again …as what you like to call “canon”? Konig, I don’t know what you think passes for creating a history with which to base a narrative on, but taking every single dev utterance as unassailable truth is silly. Not only is it not mentioned anywhere since then that I know of(and please correct me if I’m wrong), but it doesn’t make sense in the first place. Why the heck would the humans even need help with the Charr when the gods had their backs? Think about it.

Additionally, it’s no secret ANet has a soft spot for the Charr. You’ve got to be pretty naive not to see that. I even remember an interview late last year where a dev was lamenting about how humans are so popular and “why won’t more people play the other races?” Sometimes I’m not even sure the devs played GW1 with comments like that.

Oh and the “/rage” thing wasn’t directed at you Konig sheesh! I was being general, don’t take it so personal. And “if i cannot see it, it didn’t happen?”…well that’s odd considering the majority of my arguments with GW2 lore are abstract and subjective in nature. Shoot, I think I wrote a whole page on the forums once about why GW2 just feels wrong to me. lol

And the snarky thing, well maybe I was but I certainly didn’t mean it to offend. Sorry if I did. :/ And what’s your beef with WP?? I’ve only seen a few of his vids, but I don’t recall seeing any blatant misinformation. Maybe I’m wrong, who knows. I suppose it would be better if he was here to defend himself.

Not that you would, but if you want my advice Konig, try gleaning the story of Guild Wars from other things besides the “specific minutia of dev-approved cannon” for lack of a better phrase. Look at it from all angles, including ones not found in any official press release or data sink. Let yourself feel the story too.

At any rate, you shouldn’t have ended your post with the assumption I’m wrong. When in reality, neither of our stances can be technically proven true. That’s a clever old debate trick to subtly lead the audience to agree with you, and that’s just not very nice.

It’s an old habit of mine as well to make sure people don’t misunderstand.

Obsi

Obsidian.1328:

The Canthan district doesn’t exist now…you just agreed with me on that. I don’t know what you’re getting at there.

All I think he’s saying here is that the fact that it is currently “The Great Collapse” doesn’t change the fact that it WAS the Canthan/Arts District. Konig can be pretty picky about things in certain respects though, I remember having a 20 post long fight with him about how the Maguuma Wastes are different from the Jungle because of the fact that the landscape has transformed over years. It came to no real conclusion except me being kitten ed off with him for arguing over a side comment, lol.

Obsidian.1328:

And the snarky thing, well maybe I was but I certainly didn’t mean it to offend. Sorry if I did. :/ And what’s your beef with WP?? I’ve only seen a few of his vids, but I don’t recall seeing any blatant misinformation. Maybe I’m wrong, who knows. I suppose it would be better if he was here to defend himself.

I wanna add in here. I do believe that it was WP that provoked the original “The Pale Tree’s an Elder Dragon” theory. At the very least promoted that the binary at the end of a golem’s dialogue in Crucible of Eternity said “Pale Tree”. Someone else will have to back me up on this though, because I am not certain, and I am not going to watch all of his video’s to try and find it.

As for the assassination thing, let me get this straight: You’re taking a comment made by a dev in an interview in a fansite, that then got deleted for w/e reason, and then is never mentioned again …as what you like to call “cannon”?

Not to instigate an old argument but I didn’t read that interview but if this is indeed the case, I’d have to agree that it is canon as well. Most of the interviews we source are from sites not controlled by a-net. And a lot of the info on those sites are only mentioned once.