Question about Glint.

Question about Glint.

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Posted by: Silvercyclone.1462

Silvercyclone.1462

Ever since I got to the storyline where you help the Skritt I always wondered how Glint was able to lay eggs. This dialogue was in that storyline.

<Character name>: Destroyer queen. Dragon minions shouldn’t be able to reproduce. How is this possible?
Warmaster Forgal Kernsson: Two possibilities. Could be a creature that was pregnant when she was corrupted. Or this “queen” might be a kind of minion we’ve never seen before.

Now if Glint was pregnant before she was corrupted wouldn’t all her eggs have hatched by now? Also if there was a type of minion that could reproduce I’m sure in the 250 years since we first saw dragon minions we would have come across a few.

So how is Glint’s egg in the new LS even possible? I guess it could be possible that the egg the Master of whispers has is a dud and everyone is only interested in the magic within it rather than the creature.

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Posted by: ErickDntn.1847

ErickDntn.1847

I don’t know if the answer will be a spoiler for you or not
Glint was brought to Tyria by the Gods to protect it. Not sure if she was already Kralkatorrik's champion or not, but she was freed by her servant, the Forgotten, long time ago. That's why she could betray Kralkatorik as her former master, because her mind was free.

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Posted by: lordkrall.7241

lordkrall.7241

“Dragon minions shouldn’t be able to reproduce”

Not isn’t.

Glint had children (or at least one child) in Guild Wars 1.

Glint also seems to be rather unique overall when it comes to Dragon Champions. It is of course also fully possible that she regained her ability to reproduce after she was freed from Kralkatorriks control, which would suggest that they CAN reproduce but aren’t ALLOWED to do it.

Krall Bloodsword – Mesmer
Krall Peterson – Warrior
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Posted by: lordkrall.7241

lordkrall.7241

I don’t know if the answer will be a spoiler for you or not
Glint was brought to Tyria by the Gods to protect it. Not sure if she was already Kralkatorrik's champion or not, but she was freed by her servant, the Forgotten, long time ago. That's why she could betray Kralkatorik as her former master, because her mind was free.

There is no information at all about Glints origin as far as I know, and there is definitely not something about her being brought to Tyria by the Gods.

Krall Bloodsword – Mesmer
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square

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Posted by: Silvercyclone.1462

Silvercyclone.1462

From what I understand Glint’s mind was freed but her body remained in crystal form. Last time I checked your mind doesn’t determine if you can reproduce. Now the eggs in GW1 could be from her being pregnant before she was corrupted but they should have all hatched by now since the 1st one hatched in GW1.

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Posted by: lordkrall.7241

lordkrall.7241

Glint wasn’t really crystal though. Sure, she had some crystally parts, but most of her were flesh.

IF the eggs in Guild Wars 1 were from before she was corrupted they would have been waiting to hatch for more than 10 000 years, if they could wait that long without hatching it isn’t really that unlikely that they could wait another 250 years.

Unless every single egg she ever lay (or however she produced them) were laid at the exact same time, there is no reason to assume they would all hatch at the same time.

Krall Bloodsword – Mesmer
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square

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Posted by: ErickDntn.1847

ErickDntn.1847

Oh sorry my bad! I always assume that since Glint’s servant, the Forgotten, was loyal to the Six (or Five?) Gods and the Facets was reflecting the Human Gods power, Glint was also related to the Human Gods. But still, that is according to human perspective.
Anyway, I remember from a dialogue that the Forgtten helped Glint regained her freedom, although not specifically her reproduction ability as far as I remember. But I would assume dragons have peculiar reproduction system.

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

I don’t know if the answer will be a spoiler for you or not
Glint was brought to Tyria by the Gods to protect it. Not sure if she was already Kralkatorrik's champion or not, but she was freed by her servant, the Forgotten, long time ago. That's why she could betray Kralkatorik as her former master, because her mind was free.

Glint being brought to Tyria by the gods was a lie created by Glint to hide her true history. She was on Tyria before the Six Gods were on the world.

Her freedom from Kralkatorrik’s control is irrelevant to her pregnancy.

Now if Glint was pregnant before she was corrupted wouldn’t all her eggs have hatched by now? Also if there was a type of minion that could reproduce I’m sure in the 250 years since we first saw dragon minions we would have come across a few.

Firstly, do we know with absoluteness that the egg is an egg produced via reproduction? Or is it just a branded version of the destroyer eggs – artificially created to house a single minion during its creation?

This question is VERY important to answer, as it would give way to dragons being an actual race and not eldritch abominations created out of twisting other things into dragons.

If the answer is no, then the eggs are just a case of a dragon champion creating another dragon champion (like how Drakkar corrupted Svanir into a dragon champion); just slower than usual branded.

If the answer is yes, then the egg is a case of reproduction that got altered via Kralkatorrik’s corruption. And one must ask to answer your first question up there: just how long does a dragon egg incubate for?

“Dragon minions shouldn’t be able to reproduce”

Not isn’t.

Glint had children (or at least one child) in Guild Wars 1.

Glint also seems to be rather unique overall when it comes to Dragon Champions. It is of course also fully possible that she regained her ability to reproduce after she was freed from Kralkatorriks control, which would suggest that they CAN reproduce but aren’t ALLOWED to do it.

Dragon minions cannot reproduce because they don’t have the organs to allow reproduction. Flesh gets turned to ice, crystal, liquid flame, completely rotten, etc. Sometimes bone and/or skin remain, sometimes perhaps not. Glint is not unique in this.

There is no information at all about Glints origin as far as I know, and there is definitely not something about her being brought to Tyria by the Gods.

Glint being “brought” to Tyria is just a mis-statement by him; the original lore is that Glint was the “first creation” of the Six Gods on Tyria. But it was explained even before Edge of Destiny (as a lead into the novel’s reveal) that Glint’s history comes solely from her, and that she “had her reasons” for saying what she did.

Glint wasn’t really crystal though. Sure, she had some crystally parts, but most of her were flesh.

All we see is gray/blue skin with crystals jutting out of it. Branded keep their skin and bone, though the skin grays as it loses color and tears to show the crystal ‘muscle’ and ‘sinew’. While Edge of Destiny describes Glint as having sinew, it never describes it as flesh and (liquid) blood.

Unless every single egg she ever lay (or however she produced them) were laid at the exact same time, there is no reason to assume they would all hatch at the same time.

Depending on what conditions a magic-consuming race requires to hatch from eggs.

It may be that the eggs require plentiful magic, thus if laid at the end of a dragonrise cycle, they would remain in effective stasis for centuries due to lack of magic. And similarly, if one is exposed more magic than others, then it will hatch sooner, even if laid at the same time.

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

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Posted by: Valik Shin.9027

Valik Shin.9027

Dragons are a race. There are other non elder dragons than the elder dragons. Perhaps the elder dragons are "dragon god". Kinda like how the human gods seam to be nothing more than regular human s infused with massive amounts of power perhaps it the same for the elder dragons

Valik Shin
Darkwood Legion [DARK]
Yak’s Bend

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

Please point to me these “non elder dragons”.

Because all we see are mounds of ice, earth, crystal, lightning, fire, bone, and flesh melded into that dragon shape.

Canthan dragons don’t count, for they are different than the dragons we speak of – dragons of the European shape. And even then, only the Saltspray Dragons seem to be “real” dragons (turtle dragons are just drake-like turtles; dragonmoss is just drake-like plants, etc.).

The Six Gods do seem to be more than “humans infused with massive amounts of power” – the only source for otherwise in-game is the work of an asura who speaks of things he shouldn’t possibly know (Gadd speaks of dragons, yet died before they were known to mortal races, let alone the fact that they consume magic).

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

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Posted by: Valik Shin.9027

Valik Shin.9027

Please point to me these “non elder dragons”.

Because all we see are mounds of ice, earth, crystal, lightning, fire, bone, and flesh melded into that dragon shape.

Canthan dragons don’t count, for they are different than the dragons we speak of – dragons of the European shape. And even then, only the Saltspray Dragons seem to be “real” dragons (turtle dragons are just drake-like turtles; dragonmoss is just drake-like plants, etc.).

The Six Gods do seem to be more than “humans infused with massive amounts of power” – the only source for otherwise in-game is the work of an asura who speaks of things he shouldn’t possibly know (Gadd speaks of dragons, yet died before they were known to mortal races, let alone the fact that they consume magic).

If u exclude cantha then there r no other living dragons. There r some dragon like bones in gw1. As for the human gods, komir is exactly a human infused with massive power to be come a god. Grenth’s father was human and his mother is dwayna so the god can at the very least mate with humans

Valik Shin
Darkwood Legion [DARK]
Yak’s Bend

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

Grenth’s father was a mortal.*

We never have been told who Grenth’s father was, just that he was a mortal sculptor. While Malchor is likeliest, Grenth’s father may not even be human. Simply not a god or demigod.

The gods very much can be humans, but they can also change their sizes and shapes (we see this of Lyssa, Dwayna, and Melandru), and nothing confirms they were humans.

And Kormir had more than “massive amount of power” to make her a god. It was divine power.

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

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Posted by: CureForLiving.5360

CureForLiving.5360

So 2 things important to this discussion we don’t know: Do European-Style Dragons exists as a distinct race, and if so do what is the biology around their reproduction.

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Posted by: Jaher Dal.9503

Jaher Dal.9503

The Forgotten was not one person, it was a whole race of snake people.

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Posted by: Squee.7829

Squee.7829

So far, the closest thing to a dragon species we’ve seen or even heard about were the Saltspray dragons in Cantha, and possibly the undead dragons from the Prophecies campaign. Everything else can be distinctly identified as a “drake” which usually look more like iguanas or Gila monsters than anything really draconic. Saltspray dragons may be a complicated case if Kuunavaang turns out to be any bit as special as Glint, but I think it’s more than likely that Saltspray dragons are just “drakes” that have the unique ability to fly, and Kuuna is just a special version of them. She’s probably not connected to the elder dragons any more than your common Saltspray dragon or Reef Drake.
As for reproduction, all of the above are likely nothing special. Normal old fashion (probably reptilian) reproduction that can’t be shown without upping the game’s rating. As for the Elder dragons, they’d probably have a hard time breeding at all, since the closest things to them biologically (if biology even applies for some of them) are the other Elder Dragons, and as far as we know, they’re just as likely to kill each other on sight as they are to light some candles and set the mood for egg-making. But who needs needy, useless, resource eating babies when you can just make ready-to-kill-for-you minions? (Just my thoughts)

Leader and sole member of the “Bring Penguins to Tyria” movement.

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

Glint is stated to once have had free will, and dragon minions are stated to be unable to reproduce, unless they were pregnant when corrupted (the whole being turned into ice/crystal/fire/decaying tissues kind of prevent pregnancy from happening), so Glint having eggs heavily hints that she was once a living being.

The Bone Dragons from GW1 are stated to only be the front half of their original bodies, and unlike the Hellhounds which were bone constructs like minions, the Bone Dragons were true undead that were risen from graves (their hind half tore off as they pulled themselves out of the graves due to their strength being too much for their rotten bodies to handle).

Saltsprays look nothing like drakes, to be honest. So I doubt they’re drakes. Whether they’re tied to the Tyrian dragons (Elder and not) is a mystery though.

But Rotscale, Glint, and Kuunavang all being compared to each other on multiple occasions (even after Glint’s status as former dragon minion was revealed) hints at a connection between Bone Dragons, Saltspray Dragons, and Glint.

As for the Elder Dragons reproducing, my thoughts have been – for a while now – that they’re simply the last survivors of a dragon race, grown more powerful by consuming more magic than the others.

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

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Posted by: Squee.7829

Squee.7829

It’s not uncommon for members of a genus to look widely dissimilar from other members. Take the real world Rock Hyrax for example (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_hyrax). It looks pretty much like a Guinea Pig with kitten y teeth, but it’s actually biologically more like a small elephant, as those are its closest relatives.
Either way, my point was that saltspray dragons as a whole, in my opinion, are probably no more special than any other drake. At the very least, probably not connected to any dragon. Cantha has a number of odd animals that on occasion become uniquely powerful among their counterparts. There was a Kirin spirit among regular Kirin, a saltspray dragon (aside from Kuunavaang) that was part of a side quest that could speak and lay curses on people, and the celestial creatures that were basically ascended forms of their common peers.
I never saw the thing about Rotscale and other bone dragons. (why don’t we see any in Orr? I’m not saying their absence disputes the claim, I’m just curious. I think they’d be neat to see once in a while)
And wasn’t it once stated in an interview or something that Kuunavaang, while special, has absolutely nothing to do with Glint? And also, which source says Glint had free will before she was corrupted? She seemed a bit too fleshy to me to be a pure construct, but I just never saw anything directly state she was not just either a construct or a horribly mutated random species.
And I like the idea of the dragons being members of a mostly dead species, but the only issue I have with it is that they all look so totally different :/ Enough to be members of multiple species, but that could just be a product of “I need extra limbs to properly manipulate this excess power” so they just forced themselves to grow in odd ways. If you can raise a continent with an undead army, I’m sure you can figure out how to sprout some extra tails

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Posted by: Chuck.8196

Chuck.8196

Asexual reproduction is a mode of reproduction by which offspring arise from a single organism, and inherit the genes of that parent only.

We know that dragons consume magic. So I think magic consumption would be required to hatch eggs. If a dragon is locked away or dead, like Glint, it can not feed.

Glint also was a prophet with the ability of see the future. So perhaps it knew what was to come and the eggs were in preparation.

And we aren’t sure those eggs hatch into dragons. perhaps they are just pure energy.

a·chieve·ment – a thing done successfully, typically by effort, courage, or skill
re·ward – a thing given in recognition of one’s service, effort, or achievement
en·ti·tle·ment – the belief one is inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

We know that dragons consume magic. So I think magic consumption would be required to hatch eggs. If a dragon is locked away or dead, like Glint, it can not feed.

I don’t see this connection you draw.

A bird can lay eggs and then die, and the eggs can hatch on their own. Same goes for any other egg-laying animal.

You saying this is like saying “We know that snakes consumes rodents. So I think rodent consumption would be required to hatch eggs. If a snake is locked away or dead, it can not feed.”

And we aren’t sure those eggs hatch into dragons. perhaps they are just pure energy.

Actually, we do know they hatch into dragons.

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

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Posted by: Squee.7829

Squee.7829

Eggs are neat because they already have all the nutrients required already tightly packaged inside of them for the growing hatchling to consume. It’s basically the bird/reptile’s placenta inside the egg. So, if energy was required for the dragon to hatch, those little eggs are just giant balls (ovals? tetrahedrons? pointy things?) of energy. Kind of makes me nervous about carrying one for a brief few moments in GW1 :/ The thing must be like a mini nuke.
But all that aside, those eggs certainly are weird. They’re hatching at odd intervals, not all at once, like typical eggs. Did Glint lay them all separately hundreds (or even thousands) of years ago, hundreds of years apart? Or are they being hatched at specific times for specific purposes?
If it’s the latter case, why was one hatched at the end of the EotN expansion? So far, we’ve not seen or heard of that dragon at all, so either he’s making some grand entrance as a mature(ish?) dragon later on, or he was just completely useless and is chilling on a beach somewhere waiting for this whole dragon business to blow over. This other egg seems awfully important. It’s probably going to hatch soon, so why pick now?

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Posted by: Slowpokeking.8720

Slowpokeking.8720

Destroyers can lay eggpods, they can reproduce, even in Gadd’s time, there were such Destroyers. The Risen Spiders could also lay eggs.

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

Yes, the Destroyer Queen – a very special champion – is capable of creating mobile oval incubation pods… that hatch crabs, trolls, and harpies. Not the same thing as an actual egg.

Creatures that produce real eggs are creatures that were pregnant upon corruption. Jeff Grubb, Ree Soesbee, and Scott McGough confirmed that there are not creatures corrupted into destroyers seen.

There were no egg-laying destroyers in Eye of the North. You are thinking of Destroyer Spawns – a ‘pod’ that spawned three destroyers each. Very different from eggs, since they were destroyers themselves.

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

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Posted by: Slowpokeking.8720

Slowpokeking.8720

Yes, the Destroyer Queen – a very special champion – is capable of creating mobile oval incubation pods… that hatch crabs, trolls, and harpies. Not the same thing as an actual egg.

Creatures that produce real eggs are creatures that were pregnant upon corruption. Jeff Grubb, Ree Soesbee, and Scott McGough confirmed that there are not creatures corrupted into destroyers seen.

There were no egg-laying destroyers in Eye of the North. You are thinking of Destroyer Spawns – a ‘pod’ that spawned three destroyers each. Very different from eggs, since they were destroyers themselves.

The destroyer hapries/trolls/crabs are all the same thing, destroyer made of lava and rocks, they just took different forms.

No, I’m talking about Gadd’s lab, it had Destroyer Matriarch, which was pretty much the same version. So such Destroyers are not new species.

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

There is a difference between destroyer harpies, trolls, and crabs – especially the last one from the former two. Yes, they’re all made out of lava and rocks, but that’s not “the same thing” in the end. Otherwise you’re saying Embers and Destroyers are “the same thing”.

The Matriarch didn’t lay eggs – or rather, there’s no evidence to suggest such. A “matriarch” is simply a female leader – which interestingly gives gender to the otherwise genderless destroyers, but for all we know, this is just Gadd’s (aka Anet’s) habit of using feminine pronouns over masculine ones (wouldn’t be the first for Anet). The Destroyer Matriarch was just a dragon champion (a weak one – arguably not a champion at all but some sort of lieutenant instead). Dragon champions are 100% capable of creating new minions – in the case of destroyers, all such minions come from rock and lava. It certainly isn’t impossible for the Matriarch and Queen to be similar dragon champions – but that doesn’t mean either of them were once living beings let alone capable of reproduction (you kind of need organic parts to reproduce, otherwise it’s just akin to a factory – unless you’re going to say that assembly lines are machines reproducing?).

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

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Posted by: Slowpokeking.8720

Slowpokeking.8720

Embers are not created by the Elder Dragons. Destroyers, are all the same species, they were not corrupted but directly shaped from lava and rocks. They just take different shapes to fight differently. It’s not like real crab/harpy/troll, they just adapt the form of these beings.

The quest made it clear:

Eliminate the destroyer queen and her hatchlings.

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

But the queen didn’t give birth to living creatures. This is what reproduction means.

Biology. to produce one or more other individuals of (a given kind of organism) by some process of generation or propagation, sexual or asexual.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/reproduce?s=t

Dragon minions do not reproduce – not in this concept – and neither does the Destroyer Queen.

What the Destroyer Queen did was create mobile incubators (what eggs effectively are) that ‘hatched’ into young destroyers (hence the term ‘hatchling’). But this is NOT reproduction.

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

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Posted by: Squee.7829

Squee.7829

To be fair, that same page says (excluding the “biology” part):
to make a copy, representation, duplicate, or close imitation of:
That’s the kind of reproduction seen here.
But as for reproduction as a process minions can do, I’m going to go with no, they can not. In certain cases special or high ranking minions can create spawn from something that is not already a spawn (make destroyers out of rocks, make undead minions out of living…anythings) but can not within themselves replicate cells into a separate living entity and thrust it into the world. Some might carry or incubate said living entities for a time, but probably not reproduce them in a way biological things tend to do.

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Posted by: CureForLiving.5360

CureForLiving.5360

Take the real world Rock Hyrax for example (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_hyrax). It looks pretty much like a Guinea Pig with kitten y teeth, but it’s actually biologically more like a small elephant, as those are its closest relatives.

Ah dassies, they’re so cute (oh wait they’re big rats XD ). Although I do seem to remember there being an even closer relative somewhere, but as I’m unable to find a link I guess I’ll just assume I’m mis-remembering. Think it was the dugong but meh.
We could also perhaps look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convergent_evolution to explain similarities.
Usually the best way to resolve these sorts of things is through a DNA test. Don’t think the Asura have invented that yet so it’s all still up in the air.

To be fair, that same page says (excluding the “biology” part):
to make a copy, representation, duplicate, or close imitation of:
That’s the kind of reproduction seen here.

Well in the non-biological sense reproduction means essentially to make the same thing (re-again produce-make). Like one would reproduce a work of art, or reproduce a situation. So the term is rather contextual. Also classifying destroyers as the same species is also kinda odd, since I’m pretty sure they’re not biological in any sense that we’d use it. So did it really reproduce?

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

@Squee: Yes, but that’s basically a redoing production by all those definitions. Copying something. Here, we’ve been talking about organic reproduction aka sexual reproduction aka having children.

In the sense of redoing production, yes, dragon minions ‘reproduce’ – but 1) in the sense we’re talking about (organic/sexual reproduction), they don’t; 2) you may as well just say they produce more dragon minions, which is far less confusing in contextual definition; 3) if you begin arguing that dragon minions reproduce, then you’re arguing that assembly lines reproduce – which depending on the definition you use (making copies v. sexual reproduction) can be right (former) or wrong (latter).

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

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Posted by: Squee.7829

Squee.7829

That’s kind of the point I was making >.>

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Posted by: Slowpokeking.8720

Slowpokeking.8720

But the queen didn’t give birth to living creatures. This is what reproduction means.

Biology. to produce one or more other individuals of (a given kind of organism) by some process of generation or propagation, sexual or asexual.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/reproduce?s=t

Dragon minions do not reproduce – not in this concept – and neither does the Destroyer Queen.

What the Destroyer Queen did was create mobile incubators (what eggs effectively are) that ‘hatched’ into young destroyers (hence the term ‘hatchling’). But this is NOT reproduction.

What do you mean living creatures? The Destroyers are not made of flesh but that is reproduction.

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Posted by: Slowpokeking.8720

Slowpokeking.8720

To be fair, that same page says (excluding the “biology” part):
to make a copy, representation, duplicate, or close imitation of:
That’s the kind of reproduction seen here.
But as for reproduction as a process minions can do, I’m going to go with no, they can not. In certain cases special or high ranking minions can create spawn from something that is not already a spawn (make destroyers out of rocks, make undead minions out of living…anythings) but can not within themselves replicate cells into a separate living entity and thrust it into the world. Some might carry or incubate said living entities for a time, but probably not reproduce them in a way biological things tend to do.

The Destroyer Queens do lay eggs, what does that differ from Glint lay her egg? The Risen Spiders also lay eggs and it could be turned into spider hatchling. Same with Branded Devourers.

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

Slowpokeking, the difference is between organic egglaying and “creating an egg shape pod for artificial lifeforms to pop out of”.

Destroyers do the latter. They are physically incapable – like all dragon minions that aren’t corrupted pregnant creatures – to produce offspring.

Risen spiders/drakes do the former. Such is only possible because the creatures who lay said eggs were pregnant upon corruption.

The question is: which does Glint do?

And it is a very important question in Glint’s case, because if it’s the former then that means there was a dragon race with either dragons being asexual in childbearing or there was a dragon daddy somewhere in the past.

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

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Posted by: Slowpokeking.8720

Slowpokeking.8720

Slowpokeking, the difference is between organic egglaying and “creating an egg shape pod for artificial lifeforms to pop out of”.

Destroyers do the latter. They are physically incapable – like all dragon minions that aren’t corrupted pregnant creatures – to produce offspring.

Risen spiders/drakes do the former. Such is only possible because the creatures who lay said eggs were pregnant upon corruption.

The question is: which does Glint do?

And it is a very important question in Glint’s case, because if it’s the former then that means there was a dragon race with either dragons being asexual in childbearing or there was a dragon daddy somewhere in the past.

Because Destoyer themselves might not be organic, but other than this difference between them and the organic creatures, it’s the same thing.

Who said the Risen/branded were pregnant upon corruption? Kralkatorrik left years ago but there were still unhatched branded eggs.

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

  1. No, it’s not the same thing.
  2. Glint’s egg is in stasis, the others are likely similar. Skritt personal story says that only creatures pregnant upon corruption can lay eggs amongst dragon minions.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

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Posted by: Slowpokeking.8720

Slowpokeking.8720

  1. No, it’s not the same thing.
  2. Glint’s egg is in stasis, the others are likely similar. Skritt personal story says that only creatures pregnant upon corruption can lay eggs amongst dragon minions.

No, we don’t see the Risen/Branded have any stasis to keep them, they even lay the eggs out from themselves and hatch out spider hatchings to attack us. Do we see the Risen have a huge stasis for all the Risen Spiders and put the eggs back to their body when they were sent to fight? No. Actually the Risen Spiders are everywhere in Tyria, it’s not like they return to Orr often or build stasis near their residence.

That line said they’ve never seen something like the Destroyers Queen, but such Destroyer existed even in Gadd’s time, which proved they don’t know the dragon minions very well.

Question about Glint.

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

  1. Do you see anything keeping Glint’s egg in stasis? Nope.
  2. You apparently don’t get the notion of what stasis is in this case – it means “it won’t hatch for an extended period of time”. So it doesn’t matter how long those branded eggs existed. Point is, that we’ve been told dragon minions cannot reproduce (and by this, I mean sexual reproduction – they cannot have kids) and this makes sense, what with innards being replaced by crystal, ice, fire, etc. or becoming rotten.
  3. No one ever said about eggs being ‘put back into their bodies’. The concept that you’re apparently incapable of comprehending is that they remained in the body from the point of corruption until laying them.
  4. Once more, NOTHING says that the Matriarch lays eggs. So… it rather proves that you don’t know what you’re talking about very well.

But talking to you, once more, is becoming like trying to talk to a pull-string doll. Pointless, aggravating, and gets no one anywhere. Since you refuse to comprehend what I’m talking about, being stuck by your own tunnel vision, again, I’ll cease this nonsense now.

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

Question about Glint.

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Posted by: Slowpokeking.8720

Slowpokeking.8720

  1. Do you see anything keeping Glint’s egg in stasis? Nope.
  2. You apparently don’t get the notion of what stasis is in this case – it means “it won’t hatch for an extended period of time”. So it doesn’t matter how long those branded eggs existed. Point is, that we’ve been told dragon minions cannot reproduce (and by this, I mean sexual reproduction – they cannot have kids) and this makes sense, what with innards being replaced by crystal, ice, fire, etc. or becoming rotten.
  3. No one ever said about eggs being ‘put back into their bodies’. The concept that you’re apparently incapable of comprehending is that they remained in the body from the point of corruption until laying them.
  4. Once more, NOTHING says that the Matriarch lays eggs. So… it rather proves that you don’t know what you’re talking about very well.

But talking to you, once more, is becoming like trying to talk to a pull-string doll. Pointless, aggravating, and gets no one anywhere. Since you refuse to comprehend what I’m talking about, being stuck by your own tunnel vision, again, I’ll cease this nonsense now.

Actually, from NPC who didn’t know the dragon minions well and made obvious mistake on the Destroyers. It’s not reliable at all. So the whole argument makes little sense.

It clearly stated its hatchlings.

Question about Glint.

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Posted by: Slowpokeking.8720

Slowpokeking.8720

<Character name>: Destroyer queen. Dragon minions shouldn’t be able to reproduce. How is this possible?
Warmaster Forgal Kernsson: Two possibilities. Could be a creature that was pregnant when she was corrupted. Or this “queen” might be a kind of minion we’ve never seen before.

Obviously it’s just the PC’s own guess. Even Forgal Krensson was not very sure about it, he never said the minions could NOT reproduce, just saying that pregnant before corruption might be able to explain it. They also consider the Destroyer Queen to be able to reproduce.

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

Try reading between the lines a bit.

Read what isn’t said outright in those statements. And not just with Forgal but with all mentors.

That’s all I’ll say in this.

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

Question about Glint.

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Posted by: draxynnic.3719

draxynnic.3719

Konig… seriously, you’re drawing a long bow over technicalities and one line (okay, three equivalent lines from three people) from unstable narrators. It’s turned into a discussion of semantics over what exactly the definition of “reproduction” is in order to avoid accepting that the mentors were probably just wrong, and frankly, at the bottom line, it really doesn’t matter. It’s abundantly clear that some dragon minions and ex-dragon-minions can create creatures similar to themselves, and if they choose to use themselves as a template, or a mix of themselves or some other being, then the distinction is really not worth fighting over, let alone dropping to the level of insult-throwing.

Either way, my point was that saltspray dragons as a whole, in my opinion, are probably no more special than any other drake. At the very least, probably not connected to any dragon. Cantha has a number of odd animals that on occasion become uniquely powerful among their counterparts. There was a Kirin spirit among regular Kirin, a saltspray dragon (aside from Kuunavaang) that was part of a side quest that could speak and lay curses on people, and the celestial creatures that were basically ascended forms of their common peers.

Actually, from the relevant quests, lore entries in the manual, and other sources, the ‘special’ saltsprays and kirin such as Zen Daijun, Albax, and so on were special only in that they avoided being corrupted by the Jade Wind. Once, all of their respective kinds were as they were – they were possibly more powerful than average, but in the “shaman versus a typical norn” sense rather than “Glint versus a common river drake” sense. The Jade Wind robbed most of the Canthan dragons and kirin of their sanity and of the ability to use many of their less overtly combat-oriented powers.

To those who think Scarlet hate means she’s succeeded as a villain:
People don’t hate Scarlet like Game of Thrones fans hate Joffrey.
They hate her the way Star Wars fans hate Jar Jar Binks.

Question about Glint.

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Posted by: Byoushinou.9458

Byoushinou.9458

Coming back to the topic, my question is:
Assuming Glint was pregnant prior to her corruption, what impregnated her?

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

I disagree drax.

Firstly, the three people are long-standing, well-known, and/or experienced members of the Orders. The Orders’ current main – if not primary (Vigil) – mission is to fight the Elder Dragons. They would be the best people short of experts (ala Trahearne on Risen) to talk about this.

Secondly, the mentors state there are two possibilities: a pregnant individual that was corrupted, or a new type of minions. Basically, the mentors are stating “the only known case of minion reproduction of this style is when it’s a creature that was pregnant upon corruption, however, there’s a chance we’ve never seen this before.” I.e., the mentors are stating that insemination (since the term “reproduce” has more meanings that what we are talking about, I’ll use a term that doesn’t) has never been observed before by groups that have been studying the dragon minions for years.

In other words, the mentors weren’t wrong. It was the later category: something the Orders had never seen before (and despite Slowpokeking’s claims, we don’t see eggs with the Destroyer Matriarch – and even if we did, nothing says the Orders have records of Gadd’s secret experiments).

But at the same time, the mentors are stating that dragon minions cannot be inseminated to all of their knowledge.

And if you think about it, it makes perfectly logical sense that a dragon minion cannot be impregnated. After all, old icebrood are made of ice and bone. Branded, young and old, are made of crystal, bone, and skin. Risen, young and old, are made of rotten flesh. Destroyers are made out of lava.

If you can impregnate lava, you sir, are either dillusional and going to be lacking a piece of anatomy, or you’re a mad scientist and I want to be your friend when you take over the world with your magma minions.

If any dragon minion can reproduce in the sense of insemination, it’d be young icebrood given that they still have some flesh to their ice and bone (but such is likely to never be seen because the Sons of Svanir kill female icebrood upon sight) or Mordrem (given that they are in fact, plants). All other “reproduction” is not insemination – aka not biological reproduction – but rather something more akin to a magical factory: spreading the corruption rather than making the corruption.

And while one can shout “semantics!” at the topic, it is important to differentiate because the differentiation creates a question which Byoushinou just asked:

If Glint was pregnant prior to being corrupted, what impregnated her? And does her babies’ appearance reflect the parents’ original species?

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

Question about Glint.

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Posted by: Squee.7829

Squee.7829

If Glint was wholly corrupted, and thus rendered unable to biologically reproduce, it could mean that her “babies” are more like clones. Not so much genetic offspring of herself and a separate entity, thus being genetically similar, but slightly different from herself, but more an exact copy. Maybe with some modifications added by Glint during the creation process. It’s just reasonable to assume that if you can mold the process of creating life artificially, of a sorts, you can probably control HOW it grows.

On the other hand, if she was pregnant before corruption, how freaking long is her gestation period? Why are the eggs hatching at such odd intervals? (How messed up is her anatomy to pass pointy crystalline eggs? >:o) We see no evidence of any other members of her species. Doesn’t mean they don’t exist. Really the only extinct species we know of that existed in the time before the last rise is the Giganticus Lupicus (and the leviathans maybe? I’m not sure about those) so we’re obviously missing…about 99.999999% of the fossil record of life here, but you’d think someone like the Zephyrites or the Forgotten might know. Maybe. Kind of a stretch really. Glint is awfully selective about her information. Either way, as it was just asked above, who was her mate?

Leader and sole member of the “Bring Penguins to Tyria” movement.

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Posted by: Byoushinou.9458

Byoushinou.9458

I never really played GW1 and I only read the Ascalon novel, so my knowledge in the topic of Glint might be lacking. I don’t want to make any conclusions or speculations based on that.
So what I know about Glint for sure is that she was a dragon, she was thousands of years old, she was freed from an Elder Dragon’s influence. I don’t know whether she was created by Kralkatorrik or whether she was a living being and become corrrupted. That’s why I can’t really say.
But Glint isn’t the only branded champion in a shape of a dragon, right? There’s Shatterer. Commonly reffered to as a he (by the fanbase, at least). Though I don’t know anything about his origins.
So there’s 2 possibilities then:
1. All branded were living beings so both Shaterrer and Glint were living dragons before and could make some babies cause why not and then Kralkatorrik comes along.
2. Kralkatorrik comes along and creates both champions (nobody said there couldn’t be more than one at a given time, just like with the branded leutanants) then gets lazy (?) and uses living being as frames for his branded minions. This practically excludes Glint being able to have offspring for reasons already stated before.

Unless Shaterrer is also female then we would have some interesting development. As far as I’m concerned, adoption is a valid option for all creatures

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

If Glint was wholly corrupted, and thus rendered unable to biologically reproduce, it could mean that her “babies” are more like clones.

As I understand it, the eggs would get corrupted, so they’re still separate corrupted beings at the time.

But this is presuming that Glint was truly impregnated and her eggs isn’t the case of a dragon champion creating more dragon minions.

We see no evidence of any other members of her species.

We kind of do. And we know they’re not constructs.

But the question of “are Glint’s eggs biological or just dragon corruption spreading” is the point of answering whether or not there was a species for her.

But Glint isn’t the only branded champion in a shape of a dragon, right? There’s Shatterer. Commonly reffered to as a he (by the fanbase, at least). Though I don’t know anything about his origins.
So there’s 2 possibilities then:
1. All branded were living beings so both Shaterrer and Glint were living dragons before and could make some babies cause why not and then Kralkatorrik comes along.
2. Kralkatorrik comes along and creates both champions (nobody said there couldn’t be more than one at a given time, just like with the branded leutanants) then gets lazy (?) and uses living being as frames for his branded minions. This practically excludes Glint being able to have offspring for reasons already stated before.

Unless Shaterrer is also female then we would have some interesting development. As far as I’m concerned, adoption is a valid option for all creatures

The Shatterer is a construct. The body is hollow, full of corrupted air/lightning, with an exoskeleton of sorts that is blackened stone.

Glint had skin/scales with crystals jutting out even in GW1, much like how we see Branded that were once living creatures.

Glint’s also stated to have regained free will, implying that she had free will originally, thus again implying she was a non-corrupted being at first.

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

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Posted by: Byoushinou.9458

Byoushinou.9458

The Shatterer is a construct. The body is hollow, full of corrupted air/lightning, with an exoskeleton of sorts that is blackened stone.

Glint had skin/scales with crystals jutting out even in GW1, much like how we see Branded that were once living creatures.

Glint’s also stated to have regained free will, implying that she had free will originally, thus again implying she was a non-corrupted being at first.

Ok, so this means there has had to be at least one other of the species of which Glint was a member. If it’s not Shatterer (I mentioned him because he’s both in a shape of a dragon and branded, also in similar size to Glint’s), then maybe some other dragon that was never named.

I don’t know anything about how dragons reproduce in GW universe, really. I’m only assuming that maybe they do so sexually like like Earth’s reptiles, but for all I know they could just as well reproduct like fish – with eggs ready waiting to be fertilized at any given time?…

Or they reproduce asexually and another dragon is not needed, and Glint is referred to as a she only for other races’ convinience.

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Posted by: Kaamau.5341

Kaamau.5341

My theory: The elder dragons are the first corrupted dragons.

Its possible that a long time ago that dragons existed in Tyria and fed on magic. One day a group of them tasted the magic of the human gods, and became extremely powerful, but the power drove them insane and they wiped out their own species, or turned them into champions before falling into a deep slumber to replenish their magic. Glint could have been Kralkatorrik’s mate or just simply some random pregnant dragon, but its likely she was one of his first victims, which saved her from the same level of corruption as the Shatterer.

Its a guess but I think it covers a lot of the bases. It explains how other dragons could exists, why the dragons look different and have their own aspects, why they consume magic. I also like that it works in why some of the Elder dragon’s aspects are very much like the gods.

As for why she can hatch eggs in such odd intervals? She was a magic dragon that can see the future.. she can do what she pleases and likely saw the events that are taking place now and set some kind of “hatch now timer.”

Fort Aspenwood
PRAISE GEESUS

Question about Glint.

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Posted by: Nevets Crimsonwing.5271

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271

Who did Glint mate with?

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

@Kaamau: the Elder Dragons existed as world lenders at least ~7,000 years before the human gods showed up in the world.

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.