Guild Wars 2

So in Guild Wars most souls went to the realm of the Gods, can they still go to the realms now the Gods have left Tyria?

What about the other species? If I remember correctly there was A charr in the Realm of Torment.

and how do the Armies of Menzies/Dhuum/Balthazar/Grenth get in the Realms? Are they:
-created by the Gods?
-adventurers?
-souls?

Technically speaking, souls go to the Mists. Within the Mists exist the god realms, so that is one of the likely locations they – particularly souls of those faithful to the Six – end up.

There were two charr in the Realm of Torment; tengu are said to end up in the “Sky Above the Sky” and dwarves in the “Great Forge” – we have no indications whether this is true, or where other races end up. Norn tie Raven to the Underworld, so they may end up in a part of the Underworld.

To the last question, I’m not sure what you’re asking.

I think he’s asking how the various spirits/demons that make up the armies of the Gods get formed. To that, I think that it varies. In some cases, they are formed from the souls of the deceased (Balthazar’s Eternals are obviously drawn from the souls of valiant worshippers).

In some cases, they are living (or dead) creatures that happen to dwell in the Mists, such as Dhuum’s Terrorweb Dryders.

In some cases, they are transformed from living mortals, such as Abaddon’s Margonite followers.

wouw.5837:

What about the other species? If I remember correctly there was A charr in the Realm of Torment.

Not sure if this is good evidence of “what normally happens”, since at the time we saw the Realm of Torment, Abaddon (and Dhuum) were diverting a lot of souls into the Realm of Torment that did not belong there. Kormir and Dunkoro’s son were also bound to the Realm of Torment, and they were paragons (not just their class, but the meaning of the word).

Surbrus.6942:

wouw.5837:

What about the other species? If I remember correctly there was A charr in the Realm of Torment.

Not sure if this is good evidence of “what normally happens”, since at the time we saw the Realm of Torment, Abaddon (and Dhuum) were diverting a lot of souls into the Realm of Torment that did not belong there. Kormir and Dunkoro’s son were also bound to the Realm of Torment, and they were paragons (not just their class, but the meaning of the word).

It wasn’t so much Abaddon’s doing, but rather that the human gods arranged for anyone who came into contact with Abaddon’s power to be sent to the Realm of Torment so that his influence wouldn’t spread. At the very least, that demonstrates that the gods are able to exert influence, probably even control, over where the souls of non-humans end up within the Mists. Whether they regularly exert that control remains an open question.

By the way, also don’t leave out that many human souls travel to the Hall of Heroes in GW1.

Just to answer part of the question, demons were/are formed directly from the Mists. The assumption is that they’re simply deposited into the realm of whomever they serve.

Christos de Soufre.3802:

Just to answer part of the question, demons were/are formed directly from the Mists. The assumption is that they’re simply deposited into the realm of whomever they serve.

Or formed from the realm of their master.

Or that the serve the master of the realm they form from because they come out looking for a purpose, and the master is quick to give them one.

Regarding the charr in the Realm of Torment: It’s not really clear how they ended up there. It may have been the doing of the titans rather than of the gods – which ultimately made it Abaddon’s doing, but either way, the charr that ended up there were charr that had, if at a remove, given their devotion to one of the gods. It’s plausible that the gods can influence the destinations of souls that are devoted to them (directly or indirectly) but cannot, for instance, influence the destination after death of a modern charr.

On the other hand, most nonhuman races do recognise that the gods are powerful beings that play important roles in the workings of the universe, they just don’t choose to worship them. So it’s possible that Grenth does sort the souls of all races.

I thought the Charr in the RoT were there because of their exposure to the Titans, whom as servants of Abaddon, meant that the Charr who had direct contact with the Titans were also exposed to Abaddon’s corruptive influence and thus got shunted into the RoT when they went into the Mists.

That could technically mean that, had our Heroes not dealt with Abaddon personally in Nightfall, they could very well have ended up in the RoT too after they died thanks to fighting the Titans and Shiro. (Although with the latter it’s unclear whether Abaddon’s influence would have leaked through Shiro into the Afflicted and Shiro’Ken.)

It should not be overlooked that Garfaz Steelfur and his warband might have entered the Realm of Torment alive, say, through the portal in Hrangmer where the titans had first emerged.

On the other hand it is true that Scorch Emberspire was a shaman who more than likely had contact with the titans and died in the Cataclysm — the former Abaddon’s agents, the latter Abaddon’s machination. (Vialee was also condemned to the Realm of Torment yet he was a mere Orrian citizen/soldier who possibly never encountered knowledge or power of the fallen god beforehand.)

While it’s fully debatable for Garfaaz’s state of living, Scorch Emberspire states:

“My soul longs to bask in the flames of the lands we called home.”

“Always toward Arah, where the gods once lived. All that awaited us there was death. What sort of god would lead its people to destruction?”

That bold gives a heavy indication of Scorch being dead, having witnessed (and thus died in) the Cataclysm, the lack of transparency in his body more likely due to a lack of spirit charr models at the time. I would hold no doubt that if they were to go through and retrospectively improve NPCs, they’d switch his model with the made for the BMP Nightmare Charr.

I find the fact that souls like Vialee were sent to the Realm of Torment interesting. What little we have points to him going there due to the Cataclysm – but if so, why wasn’t those who died in the Jade Wind (Shiro is said to have wondered the Underworld for 200 years before accepting the call of being an Envoy; Visu is said to have had her soul pulled from the Underworld shortly after her body was found, as well) or those in the Searing (there are both victims of the Searing remaining as ghosts in Ascalon, and we see some in the Underworld).

Oddly, only those who died in the Cataclysm and from the effects of Nightfall seem to have been sent to the Realm of Torment.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Oddly, only those who died in the Cataclysm and from the effects of Nightfall seem to have been sent to the Realm of Torment.

The simplest answer, I suppose, would be that those two events share a quality that the others don’t. Perhaps Abaddon took a personal hand in the creation of the Lost Scrolls? While we don’t know whether the Cataclysm was their intended function or something going horribly wrong, there’s a certain degree of similarity between hidden magical scrolls that caused a land to sink beneath the ocean and the domains of the god of secrets and the deeps.

I guess it would depend on whether or not the Lost Scrolls were a powerful magical artifact created by Abaddon, or whether they drew on even more ancient magic. The Cauldron of Cataclysm, for example, the one given to the Charr by the Titans to call down the Searing, supposedly pre-dated even the Six Gods and might have called upon dragon magic. (Kralkatorrik would be my guess, if we can make a connection between the Searing crystals and Kralkatorrik’s area of influence.)

I think the distinction might be that in his first life, Shiro had no knowledge that Abaddon was responsible for his manipulation (it’s possible that in fact he never learned of the connection between Abaddon and the Fortune Teller at all). Shiro was not at the time corrupted by Abaddon and had no knowledge of Abaddon, so there was no reason to send him to the Realm of Torment.

That said, it does seem as if not all of the souls of those who died in the Cataclysm went to the Realm of Torment. Those in the Domain of Pain quests are those who discovered that the Vizier was a worshipper of Abaddon, thus they had knowledge of Abaddon and were quarantined in the Realm of Torment. Vialee might also have had some relevant knowledge, but doesn’t realise its significance..

An Empire Divided states that Shiro delved into forbidden magic before the Harvest Ceremony, which while An Empire Divided may not outright coincide with the flashback cinematics of Factions, the descriptions of An Empire Divided does match the descriptions of the Imperial Guard ghosts in Gate of Fear/Domain of Fear.

Which is an important point to consider: there were some killed by Shiro in his first life that were sent to the Realm of Torment.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Imperial_Captain_Shi_Wang
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/A_History_of_Violence

“During preparations for the harvest ceremony he was on edge, talking about a fortune-teller and a choice he must make. He made no sense at all, and the whole thing still doesn’t.”

“For the briefest of moments, Shiro’s gaze locked with Vizu’s, and her heart turned to ice. Behind his eyes she saw the death of the empire.”

“Abaddon, lord of this realm, sent a minion of his evil to entice Shiro’s dark side. Disguised as a simple fortune-teller, this avatar corrupted Shiro thoroughly and used his own black thoughts against him.”

“But somewhere along the way, dark forces corrupted Shiro Tagachi, forces that he sought out against the laws of his empire and his gods. He learned the ways of forbidden sorcery and engaged in studies and rituals well beyond the disciplines of the Assassin. He found that these taboo powers were second nature to him, and the darkest forms of magic were the easiest of all.”

I’m more willing to write off the bit of Vizu and Shiro in the Underworld as either a misunderstanding (mistaking the Realm of Torment for the Underworld) by the author (Loremaster Ermenred), or simply because it hadn’t been thought up yet by devs.

As for the Orrians who knew of Abaddon – it may be that they only knew of Abaddon post-mortem, as it seems that the Imperial Guards did.

Hrrrmn. I’d forgotten about the Imperial guardsmen, I must admit… and it is a major plothole in the Factions-Nightfall relationship.

That said, Jutu and his fellows did discover that Khilbron was messing with forbidden knowledge before they died.

Zaxares.5419:

I think he’s asking how the various spirits/demons that make up the armies of the Gods get formed. To that, I think that it varies. In some cases, they are formed from the souls of the deceased (Balthazar’s Eternals are obviously drawn from the souls of valiant worshippers).

In some cases, they are living (or dead) creatures that happen to dwell in the Mists, such as Dhuum’s Terrorweb Dryders.

In some cases, they are transformed from living mortals, such as Abaddon’s Margonite followers.

Well my knowledge of GW1 is limited (more like barely existent) but I do remember:
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Razah specifically:

The protomatter that makes up the Mists strains toward creation, often spawning demonic creations in nightmarish forms. Not all creatures from the Mists are demonic, however. When the Mists come into contact with a suitable human template, for example, it can copy that form, creating a sentient entity with humanoid appearance and an almost human mind.

So the mists naturally creates things, the mists is proto-reality, it by its nature takes shape, and sometimes it produces living things such as demons. As we’ve seen with the fractals, the mists also have a habit of echoing and copying (sort of) things that already exists.

While the cause for the events of the Jade Wind was within Abaddon, the power, as far as assumptions and stories go, was from Dwayna – therefore, those who died in it, didn’t have to end up in Realm of Torment, as the trail went cold with Shiro (eventually) ending up there. However, those killed directly by Shiro with these dark arts… now that’s a different story.