Guild Wars 2

Angel McCoy.1832:

Horst Hortensie.5420:

Would it be a spoiler to tell what Scarlet’s wyld hunt was or is it already in game and I just missed it?

If she had one, what would you guess it was?

Would love if it was related to something outside of the sylvari culture. Something big. Maybe related to the Human Gods, or perhaps to let the Mursaat come back to Tyria.

I have to ask, how deeply are the connections between The Dream, the Wyld Hunt and the Pale Tree?
And does the Wyld Hunt always involve killing? Protecting the dream has been said a lot, but I might be overlooking things when I say that protecting here is done by slaying dangerous enemies.

On another note, can a soundless be called for a wyld hunt? More asking this as in, can Mordremoth plant a ‘’wyld hunt’’ in soundless sylvari with his corruption?

the reason i think is because they are still very mysterious
and from what we know could exist in another plain of existence right now.

That and the fact we have Ascended items and agony in game (which both were heavily tied with the mursaat)

though from my understanding agony is achieved through being able to use all four disciplines of magic at once

ohhh what if the where the last “sylvari” i mean there “out of phase with tyria” thing could be them somehow entering their version of the dream (unlikely but maybe)

Angel McCoy.1832:

I’m not sure I can quantify the connections between the Dream, the Wyld Hunt, and the Pale Tree. They are all very connected.

The Wyld Hunt does not always involve killing. It can be any quest at all. Finding something lost. Protecting something or someone. Rebuilding something destroyed. And so on.

A Soundless can have a calling to a Wyld Hunt, though they are most likely to try to ignore it. They could also miss the calling.

I can’t give you an answer to your other question. We’re still learning about Mordremoth, how its corruption works, and who it works on. Anything I tell you, one way or the other, would be a spoiler.

Tell me this. Why, in your opinion, are folks so enamored with the Mursaat?

I was curious if perhaps Scarlet was corrupted by mordremoth to accept his ‘’Wyld Hunt’’ (if that’s what you could call it).

And I just love The Mursaat entity. And a lot of nostalgia. For me they stand for everything I liked about GW1. I still remember that almost 8 years ago my friends went into the Ice Caves of Sorrow mission and first encountered them. The shock we had when we were literally obliterated by it’s agony still daunts me.

I loved how you were supposed to avoid them like the plague and later be blessed by the Seer. I love the lore behind them, pretty much abandoning others to preserve themselves. And I love the whole clash between them and the Seer.

I’ve always been longing for more lore of what happened before the humans were brought to Tyria by the Gods. And The Mursaat play a big part in that.

Aside from them being aesthetical masterpieces, I love the mystery.

^ that
exactly that

Angel McCoy.1832:

Tell me this. Why, in your opinion, are folks so enamored with the Mursaat?

Of all the antagonists anet has ever created, they were by far the best.
Great lore. Amazing design and combat mechanics. A lot of mystery surrounding them.

And let’s not forget the Mursaat Rally

As well as:
Lazarus the Dire: “Accursed human! You have done this to me! I will not forget this!”
Lazarus the Dire: “Countless generations will suffer for your actions this day!”

So we must get something more!

Angel McCoy.1832:

Tell me this. Why, in your opinion, are folks so enamored with the Mursaat?

my obsession with the Mursaat is 2 fold:

1. they where guarding the Door of Komalie because they knew what the titans were about, and were trying to protect tyira and stop the player and the lich from opening said door (so in a way they were actually good guys never quite redeemed or recognized for that fact imho)

2. gold wigged floaty magic creatures how cool is that… also the unseen fighting the seers… (I see wut you guys did thar in gw1..)

Bonus reason:
‘Rata Sum’ is an anagram of ‘Mursaat’ and I <3 anything to do with the asura…

On topic I love the idea that all pc sylvaris wild hunts are to fight dragons as everyone has mentioned when she is talking about the dragon in the dream she dosnt call it zitain she says “Avatar of the Tree: In your Dream, you fought an Elder Dragon face-to-face. Only two of my children have had such a dream. You, and Caithe.” she could have said Zhaitan there but she didn’t she said elder dragon. also the way that she says it to me comes off as multiple dragons not just one.

Angel McCoy.1832:

Horst Hortensie.5420:

Would it be a spoiler to tell what Scarlet’s wyld hunt was or is it already in game and I just missed it?

If she had one, what would you guess it was?

Well, let’s see…

My gut feeling would be that Wyld Hunts are compatible with the personality of the sylvari in question, at least as a general rule. Ceara’s distinguishing feature was her curiosity, her desire to find out how things work and how to replicate and improve them. She also had a fascination with the ley lines.

We also see her being a strong alliance-builder. It’s been commonly observed that it’s hard to believe the twisted and insane Scarlet we see can really be associated with the sort of diplomatic wiles to pull that off, but it could be that we only saw her at her most Scarlet-like moments, and when she was negotiating with the various alliances, she was at her more Ceara-like. This could be related to her curiosity in that finding out how societies work can help in knowing how to push them.

So, based on this, I can see a few general possibilities:

1) She was supposed to invent something. One of her main fascinations appears to be with artificial life, so it’s possible that the steam creatures were actually related to her original Wyld Hunt – she was supposed to invent a new line of mechanical soldiers to fight against dragons and other threats. More generally, it’s possible that whatever force it is that’s generating Wyld Hunts just doesn’t trust the asura, and Ceara’s role was intended to be to create a competing school of technomagical endeavour.

2) Her purpose was to do something with the ley lines, most likely to protect them against the dragons. It’s even possible that Ceara was intended to invent the machine Taimi did, particularly since it’s likely (and may in fact have been explicitly stated) that Taimi based it on what she learned researching Scarlet’s stuff.

3) Her diplomatic skills were intended to be for her Wyld Hunt – she was supposed to be the one that brought Tyria together against the dragons. On this topic, since the sylvari PC was born after Ceara had already turned her back on her Wyld Hunt, it’s even possible that the sylvari PC was intended by the Dream as a replacement for Ceara.

Angel McCoy.1832:

Tell me this. Why, in your opinion, are folks so enamored with the Mursaat?

To me, I think there’s a few elements:

First, they’re a race that, possibly even more than the charr, is emblemic to Tyria. Militaristic cat-people aren’t that uncommon (albeit more common in sci-fi than fantasy) while the mursaat, while having commonalities with things seen elsewhere (doesn’t everything) are uniquely Guild Wars.

Second, because they have strong ties with Tyria’s history. They were an important force in Guild Wars 1, so there’s the nostalgia there. Possibly more importantly, though, even back in GW1 they had this air of ancient history behind them, and in GW2 this is cemented as them being one of the races that was around last time the dragons rose. Mursaat content offers the possibility of delving further into this.

Now, much of the above also applies to other elder races such as the forgotten and seers, however:

Third, the mursaat are a credible, organised enemy. The forgotten have been opponents in the past but not really a threat per se, while the seers have only appeared as lone allies without significant fighting capabilities. This meant they had more screen time in general, and more clearly have the potential to represent a major threat in GW2. While we’ll probably never see armies of them like in Prophecies, between the White Mantle and the Jade constructs, they’d have enough strength to be dangerous, if perhaps not as dangerous as a dragon.

Fourth, with the White Mantle already established as being involved in the bandits and thus likely involved with Krytan politics against the queen, an eventual appearance of the mursaat is a logical development of that plot arc. However, the mursaat still have the potential to be threats not just to humanity, but to asura, sylvari, possibly norn if they decide to return to the Shiverpeaks (to get access to the Shiverpeaks bloodstone, say)… and even charr might have a historical grudge against them.

Fifth, Saul’s background points to the mursaat having a city somewhere in the jungle, and that’s the direction the map is currently being extended towards.

well what if her facilitation with machines and such was to create an uncoruptable army?

and also your theory of only seeing her at her most scarlet may explain the holograms
recorded while shes at her scarlet peak until she wrestles control back?

Angel McCoy.1832:

Tell me this. Why, in your opinion, are folks so enamored with the Mursaat?

Because…

…cue in Eekzie’s, Mada’s, and Drax’s posts perfectly answering this silly question.

Also, to put it in a nutshell: they are infinitely better antagonists with a deep, mysterious story and rich background than all your Living Story (as well as some from the vanilla game) one-dimensional, cartoon villains combined.

First off, thank you Angel for listening and answering the questions regarding sylvari! As a leader to a sylvari roleplaying guild, anything and everything we get comes very much in handy!

One of the things some of us have wondered in the past is whether all leaf-style clothing is grown, or can it be bought as well? What is their biological system like? And back on the topic of Hunts, do you believe that there are some Hunts which may be near impossible to finish? Do the Hunts normally have any common goals? Can they be shared? I have seen one or two, but are Wyld Hunt Squires common?

Ah sorry, last question I swear! Do they have a strong culture of their own, or because they are so new and young is it mostly borrowed from others?

Anyways, thank you for your time and for the questions answered so far! It certainly gives me a few ideas already!

Awesome to see all these questions answered! It really helps when you RP a Sylvari character to actually know how they would feel and react to things.

I actually have two questions of my own with regards to the Shadow of the Dragon episode and they are mostly related to the aftermath (so I’m not sure how much you are allowed to let loose but I dare to ask =P ). What I’m wondering is how Sylvari are affected by the ‘pain’ the Pale Tree is currently going through. We know that she is in some sort of a ‘comatose state’ but how would the Sylvari be affected, grouchy perhaps? Would they feel it in their subconsciousness and what about the Dream? Is the Dream negatively affected by ‘mum taking a nap for now’?

My second question is more like a request. After Episode 4 is finished we can see a few Sylvari NPC’s kneeling around ’mum’s Avatar’ in the Omphalos Chamber and tending to her. However, some of the other NPC’s act as if nothing has happened. Would it be possible to write some new dialogue for them so they act more ‘in-line’ with the current situation? That would greatly help the immersion factor.

Anyway, I’m really looking forward to Episode 5 and I feel Season 2 is a massive improvement over Season 1. Keep up the good work!

Angel McCoy.1832:

If she had one, what would you guess it was?

My personal theory is that her Wyld Hunt had to deal with discovering the true nature of the Elder Dragons and how they fit in with the bigger picture of Tyria. She probably finished it while in Omadd’s machine, but by that point, she fell right into Mordy’s/Entity’s lap.

Angel McCoy.1832:

Horst Hortensie.5420:

Would it be a spoiler to tell what Scarlet’s wyld hunt was or is it already in game and I just missed it?

If she had one, what would you guess it was?

hmmm … razing Lions Arch?

Angel McCoy.1832:

Tell me this. Why, in your opinion, are folks so enamored with the Mursaat?

Nostalgia, and the longing for answers to unanswered questions from GW1.

(edit:) Am I really the only one who would be way more intrigued by learning more about the Seers?

~MRA

MRA.4758:

(edit:) Am I really the only one who would be way more intrigued by learning more about the Seers?

No. Most folks interested in the mursaat are equally so interested in the Seers, since their histories are so intriquately tied together.

Angel McCoy.1832:

Tell me this. Why, in your opinion, are folks so enamored with the Mursaat?

Several reasons, i guess. First, from what i remember, the whole Mursaat hype started from a small group of people that roleplayed the White Mantle, and sort of snowballed from there, with most people not fully realizing why they even jump on that train. If i were to point to actual reasons why it’s still holding now, however…
1. They are a tie-in to GW1. Considering how much of the lore has been retconned, and how the game has changed, lot of older players just want to see anything that would remind them of “good old times”. And not in the “a shadow of the past, that reminds us that the past is gone” kind of way, like most of already existing callouts. Thus the Mursaat (and Abaddon).

2. They are an ancient, powerful and mysterious race that had an immense impact upon history. They are a known quantity, but at the same time not much is actually known about them. Thus, they are a perfect story hook (better than completely new things introduced out of the blue).

Konig Des Todes.2086:

MRA.4758:

(edit:) Am I really the only one who would be way more intrigued by learning more about the Seers?

No. Most folks interested in the mursaat are equally so interested in the Seers, since their histories are so intriquately tied together.

I’m personally hoping if/when we get more information about the Mursaat/Seer war, we find out there were more motives behind the war than the Mursaat being colossal aholes.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

MRA.4758:

(edit:) Am I really the only one who would be way more intrigued by learning more about the Seers?

No. Most folks interested in the mursaat are equally so interested in the Seers, since their histories are so intriquately tied together.

Personally I’m holding out for forgotten, but yeah.

I think the mursaat hype is not so much that people necessarily prefer the mursaat to the other elder races, but for reasons I posted above, people have a larger expectation that we’ll see the mursaat than the others. As far as we know, the seers and forgotten have withdrawn from the world entirely and there are no plans to revisit their old haunts (although we don’t know for sure where those WERE in the case of the seers) – the mursaat are continuing to have an impact through the White Mantle, and we’re heading towards the WM hideouts in the Maguuma, which might also be where Lazarus is holed up.

Maybe the “wyld hunt” is basically the same as any other dragon minion undergoes. But since they grow from a free willed friendly pale tree who protects her offspring from mordy corruption, the sylvari’s wyld hunts are quite different from other dragon minions?

And maybe the first born are closest to being ventari or ronan?

Why I was intrested in the mursaat: mostly because I played more GW1 than 2 and I expected GW2 to be GW1’s sequel. Since asking for palawa or kurzicks/luxons would probably require an expansion then white mantle it is. 1,5 year ago when I first heard about living story, and we had as much white mantle/mursaat as we have now I thought that’s gonna happen. They already had estabilished lore, mysteries like what happened in the last 200 year and a lot of players had personal connections to them.
Well, as we know today living story instead of exploreing old lore, it created a lot of questionable new one.
Personally I think the world is too big for a project like Living World. Two years has passed in game too, and I don’t feel like the world changed that much. Sure, the Scarlet line left some perma changes in the world , but noone but scarlet did anything in the past two year (Or mordremorth for that matter)? In the living story the life around tyria just stops? With my human I saved my sister long time before I killed Zhaitan yet I didn’t even talk with her it the past two years . And I feel bad.
Back to the mursaat: personally I dont want them to return with the living story. It was fine when the lore was human-centric ,but now I couldn’t imagine charrs or norns dealing with white mantle problem, and if they can’t , we can’t either. Even if they would return somehow, I wouldn’t want Taimi and the other 4 around. With 5 playable races it feels impossible to create new things that affect only one of them, but I think lore wise these kind of things would be the most intresting. This is why people say(I think) the personal story was the best around 1-30.Anyway, I think tyria isn’t the best place for living story, It should be somewhere where all races are equal .

Angel McCoy.1832:

Tell me this. Why, in your opinion, are folks so enamored with the Mursaat?

Hello Angel McCoy,

There’s much to say about this, so I hope I can find the best and simplest words.

Mursaat were a successful acchievement from all angles:

• Interesting story concepts behind them (like the “false gods” arc in GW1: Prophecies);
• As ancient beings, they are a rich source of Tyrian lore, and much of their lore is very appealing by itself too;
• Despite being great sources of lore, they have the right degree of mystery and mysticism to keep the player teased and anxious for more;
• Their mystery and mysticism were coupled with other attributes that fit in well, like some sort of arrogance, sense of superiority and alien-ish behaviour;
• Their aesthethics are absolutely excellent. They look like majestic, floating monuments. What better way to design a race that is both grand and powerful, ancient but mystic? It’s all very poetic, McCoy.
• The way the story presented them was also very effective. They didn’t talk much in the presence of the player, yet it was clear how impactful their actions were in the history of Tyria. Their scarce words were enough to define them while preserving their mystery.
• They were an effective faction. Organized and powerful, they were both very fantasy-driven while still feeling believable, unlike the cartoon-ish take for Scarlet (of a single individual with evil laughs and evil intentions that suddenly conceives more technology than the entire world and suddenly gathers unknown factions out of nowhere). Players can understand how strong Mursaat are as individuals and as a faction, while Scarlet’s acchievements remain too exaggerated for a single person in a short amount of time.
• Their attempt to protect Tyria from the Titans or they running away from the dragons. This makes them multi-layered: not totally evil, not totally all-mighty. Signs of cowarding behaviour or good will.
• The gameplay. This should not be overlooked. Mursaat were also behind interesting gameplay mechanics that made the player feel respect for them, like everyone’s memory of jumping into the first squad of Mursaat and being completely wrecked while those superior floating beings passed through their corpses. This also lead to another interesting marriage between story and gameplay, through the story quest to get infused armor. Meanwhile, GW2’s version of ascension, agony and infusion is completely cold and poor: no story behind it, no interesting gameplay quests, nothing: those words, in GW2, are just the face of a grinding mechanic.

Let’s say that Mursaat were very successful from many angles. Writers, artists, gameplay designers, all of them contributed to make Mursaat what they are. It’s not like Mursaat are the only interesting beings in all of Tyria – but they were some of the most well developed, and that has pushed them to higher popularity.

Also, Mursaat feel more unique to GW. While dragons, evil gods and evil liches are commonly seen in the fantasy landscape, and rightful so, as they make for iconic, memorable and marketable villains, anet has managed to acchieve the same with some more unique concepts, like the Mursaat. They are to Tyria kind of like what the Nazgul are to Middle-Earth – aesthetically stylish, having the right balance between mystery and lore, impactful and respectful, and ultimately very iconic.

When Anet decides to introduce Mursaat again, make sure that everything is in their favor again: their presentation, their dialogue, their artistic vision, the musical themes for them, and even – and specially – the GAMEPLAY! The gameplay itself should be an artistic tool.

I must admit that I’m getting confused again. We know the Wyld Hunt of the Sylvari character started in the Dream when we fought the Shadow of the Dragon, when Caithe (perhaps mistakenly) said it was used to poison the Dream by the Nightmare Court. Caithe also told us that her Wyld Hunt and the player character’s Wyld Hunt ended together when we killed Zaitan. So how did a fight against Morderemoth’s Champion in the dream turn into a Wyld Hunt to kill Zaitan? Caithe and the Pale Tree know all about this peculiarity but have told us nothing and we’re now half way through LS2.

One idea I came up with was that Scarlet (yes her again) was the one who poisoned the dream with the Shadow of the Dragon. That doesn’t answer any of my questions though.

Just to put it in perspective, I pretty much ‘really disliked’ the Mursaat, not only was their agonizing tough a need to get any bit of armour you got ‘infused’, they also turned out to be ‘the good guys’, while we the player were unable to have any agency over our own choices to be the misled fool (twice)… and their behaviour filled with arrogance for being right, made that even worse… now I personally can’t stand arrogance, so you can hopefully see that having to conclude that their arrogance is from the stand point they were doing ‘the good thing’, while us the heroes were being donkeys, and having no choice over being so, further fuelled my dislike for them…

To then on a deeper level realize that ‘a selective extermination program’ was somewhat justified in a ‘rights of the few, vs. disaster for the many’ somewhat sick plot twist, furthered my dislike, as it goes against almost anything I stand for.

It is worse enough that there are already many players that view the Asura as the creators of all things Mursaat. And while I would love these players to see that the Asura were barely coming out of the stone age when they surfaced in GW1, I would rather tell them myself for as many times as is needed, than having to deal with the Mursaat again… even though arguably, due to all of the above they are a really good antagonist, but the popularity of them entirely goes ‘above my head’.

@Scipio: I think it’s actually fairly simple to make the mursaat relevant to everyone. Lazarus could easily be looking for revenge on the asura as well as humans, and the Grove would be too close to the action to stay out if things got hot… especially if it turns out there’s something at the Temple of the Unseen (now ruins in Caledon Forest) that Lazarus wants to retrieve. Plus, the White Mantle are connected to the bandits, who in turn are connected to the Nightmare Court and the Inquest in Brisban, and those two are in turn connected to Scarlet’s armies… while the current accepted hypothesis is that Scarlet was influenced by Mordremoth, what if that wasn’t actually the case?

Even without such a connection, that’s three, and we’ve had LS arcs that only really affected a couple of races before (Flame and Frost, for instance). Norn could potentially be interested for the glory of getting a few proverbial mursaat heads to add to their legend, or the mursaat might try to drive the norn out of the southern Shiverpeaks in order to secure the bloodstone there. Charr might see the mursaat as more would-be gods to be fought, or it might turn out that the mursaat have been working to sabotage the treaty. PCs of either might take the wide view and recognise that a threat to western Tyria now ultimately undermines the whole effort against the dragons.

@Arghore: I don’t consider the mursaat to have been the good guys in any respect. It’s not necessarily a good deed to protect the world if you’re doing it to protect your own interests, especially if you’re murdering others to do so.

More importantly, how do we know their manipulation of the Door of Komalie was actually necessary? Sure, when we destroyed the seals the Door came open, but that could have been that the energy release from destroying the Seals pushed it open, and that if left alone, it would have stayed closed – the mursaat just felt it was necessary to reinforce it. Perhaps it wasn’t even the destruction of the seals that opened the door, but that Khilbron happened to be nearby waiting to perform the ritual that would open it. Or maybe the truth is that the Door was only at risk of opening because the mursaat had already started tampering with the bloodstones, and all those who died to power the soul batteries were paying the price for mistakes made by the mursaat.

We simply don’t know – before we can say whether the mursaat were actually doing anyone a favour at all, we’d need to know what would have happened at the Door if the mursaat had just left it alone.

Arghore, they were never ‘the good guys’ nor were they presented as such. Yes, they were killing a few which prevented disaster for the many, but to them the saving of others was a side-effect they didn’t actually care for. The only reason they were killing people was to save themselves. So their actions were never justified. Morale, at least to me, is not just about consequences but also about motives.

I kind of liked Prophecies’ story for making us, the player, almost a plaything in the struggle between Mursaat and the Lich, while at the same time dealing with a lot of other stuff on the side (ascalon’s demise, the dwarf civil war, the krytan civil war, ascension and so on).

Angel McCoy.1832:

…

I would like to know why the connection to the Dream is forced upon the Sylvari and why the Nightmare behaves like corruption (Once Sylvari have fallen for the Nightmare, they can’t turn back).
In addition to this, I would like to know if the knowledge within the dream can be manipulated and if it’s possible, can the Pale Tree can sense the manipulation or is she manipulating the Dream herself?

Thank you for all the information, Angel! It’s always wonderful to get more data and perspective on the inner workings of Tyria and its denizens.

Are you suuuuure you can’t share Caithe’s secret with me in PM? I don’t mind spoilers at all, and I’m used to keeping secrets.