Dear A-net: Please nerf rock. Paper is fine
~Sincerely, Scissors
~Sincerely, Scissors
Race nemesis and relations
For the Sons, it’s like wiki says, Norn don’t really view a whole group as good or bad, it’s based on ‘are you right now trying to kill us?’.
As for the Inquest, they are technically a krewe, so they are probably given a spot in Rata Sum to recruit. I’m not very knowledged in politics, but perhaps the fact that an Inquest member has made its way to the top in the Arcane Council, they’re given some sort of sanction in Rata Sum.
The first one: The Asura have an inquest council member and even an entire Inquest district/section in Rata Sum. Why? They are the enemy, they are practically at war.
I mean, throughout the asura personal story and events the Inquest constantly attacks Asura labs and facilities. The Asura story even starts with the Inquest launching a full scale assault on Metrica Province (Although not in person, but with hacked golems).Not only that, but their ideology and ethics, or rather their lack of, is frowned upon by Asura culture. Having the Inquest in Rata Sum and even their goverment seems so out of place and lore incorrect.
Yes they are frowned upon but they’re considered a krewe like any other in Rata Sum. They generally stay out of trouble and keep to themselves in the city. They tend to operate in the gray areas where the colleges aren’t willing to go. The real problem is that this lack of ethics causes Inquest members to believe they’re above other asura and they should be the ones to make the major decisions. The research they conduct is valuable in the fight against the dragons, but is often misused due to the very nature of those in charge. Knowledge can be both helpful as well as harmful, depending on how it is used.
The Second one: The Norn allow the Sons of Svanir to stay in Hoelbrak. When I found out that the Sons of Svanir were allowed to stay there I was baffled. They are the enemy, they openly collaborate with Jormag… JORMAG! One of their greatest enemies. Not only that, they attack every norn on site, raid their homesteads, destroy shrines of the spirits of the wild and are effectively the greatest traitors in the history of norn culture.
From the Wiki:
According to norn culture, the Sons of Svanir are not evil, nor are they viewed as such. Though they are credited with corrupting nature by other norn, they are allowed to co-exist with the others so long as they do not prove themselves as a threat. Unlike most norn, the Sons of Svanir do not remain independent for their strength, but rather barter for it.
The Sons of Svanir are tolerated in Hoelbrak. Those who stir up trouble on a regular basis are dealt with by the Wolfborn. Outside Hoelbrak they’re free to do as they please but within they’re subject to the same rules as everyone else in norn society. Basically as long as they remain relatively civilized while in Hoelbrak they’re allowed to be there. This doesn’t mean other norn trust them though. In fact, I would go so far as to say some norn actually want them gone, but they can’t do anything themselves without also incurring the wrath of Knut Whtebear and the Wolfborn.
The first one: The Asura have an inquest council member and even an entire Inquest district/section in Rata Sum. Why? They are the enemy, they are practically at war.
You should do the level 20-30 storyline for asura. The Dynamics first story step also elaborates on this if you talk to all the NPCs.
The Arcane Council is pro-asura domination of the world, and Flax is working actively for long-range plans for such to occur. The Inquest give high results at cheap prices due to their methods, so unless safer methods of similar results are found (such as during the Dynamics storyline for asura), the Arcane Council will take the Inquests’ products to further asura domination. Furthermore, as the Inquest councillor says in the Council Level instance, most of the Arcane Council would rather be working on their own projects rather than be monitoring the race – the Inquest, however, doesn’t mind this so they volunteer for many Arcane Council duties.
Flax even goes out of his way to ensure that any knowledge that would change the state of asura dominance (such as the Elder Dragons consuming magic – the plot of the lvl 20-30 storyline) is hidden away, via using the Arcane Eye organization.
In other words: The asuran government is corrupt, thanks to Flax, and the Inquest, though amoral, provide results the asuran government likes. So the Arcane Council tolerates the Inquest, while no one else does. But since its law to accept Inquest presence in Rata Sum and its nearby areas, nothing can be done by your run of the mill asura in those areas.
The Second one: The Norn allow the Sons of Svanir to stay in Hoelbrak. When I found out that the Sons of Svanir were allowed to stay there I was baffled. They are the enemy, they openly collaborate with Jormag… JORMAG! One of their greatest enemies. Not only that, they attack every norn on site, raid their homesteads, destroy shrines of the spirits of the wild and are effectively the greatest traitors in the history of norn culture.
Its how the norn treat people. They don’t judge an individual by their beliefs, what they say, or who they party with.
They judge an individual by that individual’s own action. Lets say you hate Republicans in America – if I say I’m a Republican, would you hate and condemn me for what the Republican politicians do? A norn would not (in general, that is – there are some norn who’d condemn all Sons of Svanir just for being such – most, in fact). Its the same concept, despite who the Sons of Svanir are following.
Those Sons of Svanir in Hoelbrak are not attacking every norn on sight (this is actually a mechanical situation, rather than actual lore), nor do the Hoelbrak Sons of Svanir raid homesteads. At least they haven’t been proven to do so. And in lore, those out in the wilderness might not either.
The difference between a Son of Svanir and a Flame Legion or Nightmare Court member is that the Son of Svanir is just having a different set of beliefs – not all of them are openly hostile – whereas all Nightmare Courtiers are openly hostile, and the Flame Legion are proactively trying to become dominant over the other legions. They’re more hostile than the Inquest and Sons of Svanir.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
The asuran government is corrupt, thanks to Flax, and the Inquest, though amoral, provide results the asuran government likes.
I can agree with this.
They judge an individual by that individual’s own action.
But their ‘actions’ are just as hostile. Not the ones in Hoelbrak, but the SoS in general, and the norn tolerate them as such (not just the individuals in Hoelbrak).
Lets say you hate Republicans in America – if I say I’m a Republican, would you hate and condemn me for what the Republican politicians do?
If America was at war with another nation and the Republicans would openly colaborate with them, to the point of raiding/sabotaging american facilities, then yes. Because it makes them traitors and enemies of the state. (which is exactly the case with the SoS and Jormag).
Dear A-net: Please nerf rock. Paper is fine
~Sincerely, Scissors
~Sincerely, Scissors
They judge an individual by that individual’s own action.
But their ‘actions’ are just as hostile. Not the ones in Hoelbrak, but the SoS in general, and the norn tolerate them as such (not just the individuals in Hoelbrak).
That’s the point, they do not judge a group as a whole. Yes, that group may overall be hostile, but they aren’t judging the group, they’re judging the individuals in the group, some of whom aren’t necessarily hostile. The key here is to think less like a human and more like a norn.
They judge an individual by that individual’s own action.
But their ‘actions’ are just as hostile. Not the ones in Hoelbrak, but the SoS in general, and the norn tolerate them as such (not just the individuals in Hoelbrak).
Lets say you hate Republicans in America – if I say I’m a Republican, would you hate and condemn me for what the Republican politicians do?
If America was at war with another nation and the Republicans would openly colaborate with them, to the point of raiding/sabotaging american facilities, then yes. Because it makes them traitors and enemies of the state. (which is exactly the case with the SoS and Jormag).
You yourself explain why the SoS in Hoelbrak are tolerated – because the SoS in Hoelbrak aren’t hostile – like thinking all whites are evil because of the KKK, or that all Germans are because of the Nazi. Same exact situation with the Sons of Svanir – so they have an odd faith, but if they don’t go killing and corrupting, they’re not to blame for having a weird faith.
And what if its just the politicians or a certain group of Republicans, but not those who just watch FOX News who are “enemies of the state” – would you still blame every single individual Republican? It’s the same exact thing as claiming all Muslims are terrorists due to the extremist groups that perform terrorism. Your profiling, and its no different than racism.
Apparently norn have a more open mind than you.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Your profiling, and its no different than racism.
Apparently norn have a more open mind than you.
I beg your pardon? Racism, seriously? I’m trying to have a friendly conversation here.
Anyway, I would not condemn the SoS for having a different religion, ideology or lifestyle. I would condemn them for supporting jormag, the dragon that seeks to destroy the Norn and other races.
I remember Eir tried to kill the Dragonspawn in the novel “Destiny’s Edge” but failed, in response the Dragonspawn ravaged Hoelbrak with a blizzard. She was cast out of Hoelbrak by Knut Whitebear for it. She tried to help and accomplished more than most who tried, and got banned.
The Sons of Svanir in Hoelbrak side with (Note that I said “side with”, not actively participate “yet”) the enemy that seeks to destroy all norn, butchers their children and burns down their homes. And Knut is all like “make yourself at home!”
It’s not open minded, it’s short sighted and illogical.
Note: I admit, I am judging from a human perspective and thus my opinion in this matter is somewhat biased. But that’s why I want to discuss the matter, to get a better insight. So please let’s try to keep real world problems and racism out of this.
Dear A-net: Please nerf rock. Paper is fine
~Sincerely, Scissors
~Sincerely, Scissors
They judge an individual by that individual’s own action.
But their ‘actions’ are just as hostile. Not the ones in Hoelbrak, but the SoS in general, and the norn tolerate them as such (not just the individuals in Hoelbrak).
Lets say you hate Republicans in America – if I say I’m a Republican, would you hate and condemn me for what the Republican politicians do?
If America was at war with another nation and the Republicans would openly colaborate with them, to the point of raiding/sabotaging american facilities, then yes. Because it makes them traitors and enemies of the state. (which is exactly the case with the SoS and Jormag).
You yourself explain why the SoS in Hoelbrak are tolerated – because the SoS in Hoelbrak aren’t hostile – like thinking all whites are evil because of the KKK, or that all Germans are because of the Nazi. Same exact situation with the Sons of Svanir – so they have an odd faith, but if they don’t go killing and corrupting, they’re not to blame for having a weird faith.
And what if its just the politicians or a certain group of Republicans, but not those who just watch FOX News who are “enemies of the state” – would you still blame every single individual Republican? It’s the same exact thing as claiming all Muslims are terrorists due to the extremist groups that perform terrorism. Your profiling, and its no different than racism.
Apparently norn have a more open mind than you.
Try talking to these SoS. They are openly hostile and threaten to kill you if you don’t leave. The only reason they would be there is because it is a safe place they can rest, recover and recruit or kidnap other norn.
The Arcane Council is pro-asura domination of the world, and Flax is working actively for long-range plans for such to occur. The Inquest give high results at cheap prices due to their methods, so unless safer methods of similar results are found (such as during the Dynamics storyline for asura), the Arcane Council will take the Inquests’ products to further asura domination.
This pretty much sums it up. The Inquest are a krewe, albeit a very large krewe who organise themselves in an unorthodox way (as a persistent corporation who can accumulate knowledge, rather than a loose and temporary group, for one thing). Other asura may not like them, but that doesn’t make them illegal. It’s pretty clear that Inquest agents operate freely in Metrica (they openly hang around school-progeny!), and beating them up is usually at the private request of someone who doesn’t like them.
There’s a member of the Wolfborn in Hoelbrak who’ll tell you that the Sons of Svanir are tolerated there because they haven’t actually broken any of the rules inside Hoelbrak yet. The Wolfborn will be more than happy to toss them out if they do, but in the meantime, they have as much right to be in Hoelbrak as anyone else. The norn don’t have a state, or laws, or a police force – there are just the rules of the stead/town. As long as the Svanir don’t cause trouble there, what they do outside is none of the Wolfborn’s business.
Basically, whereas the Nightmare Court tend to start things by coming after Dreamer sylvari, and the other charr are officially at war with the Flame Legion, the norn and asura don’t have so much of a state to declare war on behalf of all of their race (as stated, the Arcane Council hardly counts). Private individuals can do what they like, and other individuals who have a problem with it can do something about it, but no one’s making them illegal.
They are allowed to co-exist with the others so long as they do not prove themselves as a threat, meaning as long as they do not become violent they are granted a place to stay in Hoelbrak. The Wolfborn in Hoelbrak keep a watchful eye on them at the entrances to the Veins of the Dragon to ensure the safety of the people. If the intent to kill arises, they will take action. The first offense is exile, and following offenses are a beating after being kicked out again and only Knut Whitebear can revoke the exile. A threat to kill from the Sons of Svanir is most likely viewed as a warning to outsiders while the act of becoming violent is what will cause the Wolfborn to step in.
Konig’s point of saying someone is evil simply because their beliefs are different still applies in the Guild Wars universe just as it does in real life. The norn tolerate differences, and only those known to be “extremists” are unwelcome in their society.
I beg your pardon? Racism, seriously? I’m trying to have a friendly conversation here.
Anyway, I would not condemn the SoS for having a different religion, ideology or lifestyle. I would condemn them for supporting jormag, the dragon that seeks to destroy the Norn and other races.
I remember Eir tried to kill the Dragonspawn in the novel “Destiny’s Edge” but failed, in response the Dragonspawn ravaged Hoelbrak with a blizzard. She was cast out of Hoelbrak by Knut Whitebear for it. She tried to help and accomplished more than most who tried, and got banned.
The Sons of Svanir in Hoelbrak side with (Note that I said “side with”, not actively participate “yet”) the enemy that seeks to destroy all norn, butchers their children and burns down their homes. And Knut is all like “make yourself at home!”
It’s not open minded, it’s short sighted and illogical.
Note: I admit, I am judging from a human perspective and thus my opinion in this matter is somewhat biased. But that’s why I want to discuss the matter, to get a better insight. So please let’s try to keep real world problems and racism out of this.
You are, once again, pointing out exactly why they’re let into Hoelbrak. And why Eir was kicked out.
Eir caused problems for Hoelbrak. Those Sons of Svanir haven’t. “Yet” is irrelevant – “has” is.
And… I’m sorry, but which Sons of Svanir “butchers their children and burns down their homes” exactly? I know there’s some Sons of Svanir – note: some – that steal homesteads, and there are some that raid passages, and some which hunt animals others would consider sacred. But I have yet to see any mention of butchered children or burning homes. They’re raiders, but not savages. The worst Sons of Svanir are seen in Honor of the Waves, and they’re led explicitly by icebrood – and again, the Sons of Svanir, though sharing beliefs, are just as united as any other large group of norn: very loosely.
And for clarification: my relating to racism is that what you’re doing is profiling (which is what racism is, effectively) by judging someone you don’t know because of their affiliations, appearances, or beliefs. For example, just because a white man believes in white supremacy doesn’t make him as bad as the Nazi of WWII.
Following Jormag because he represents strength to the norn isn’t what makes Sons of Svanir evil. Its the fact they spread his corruption and actively hunt weaklings (effectively bully to death others). Those in Hoelbrak haven’t done this. They don’t go attacking others. So to the norn, another who reveres a being they view to be strong and look up to doesn’t condemn them – Elder Dragon or otherwise.
Try talking to these SoS. They are openly hostile and threaten to kill you if you don’t leave. The only reason they would be there is because it is a safe place they can rest, recover and recruit or kidnap other norn.
Precisely, it’s all threats.
There’s no physical violence. They don’t kidnap, they don’t start brawls, and they don’t actually kill if you linger. They just threaten. They have bark, but no bite. Those in Hoelbrak at least.
Except for when you’re allowed to kill them, during a certain personal storyline step.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
Pretty much with norn it is all about the individual. You have to prove yourself to be anything among them, and any religious affiliation or any such other information about you is merely a backdrop. I’ll use an example mentioned in an early norn blog post back when we were waiting for the game to be released. It was two merchants talking about the Sons of Svanir and one of them said something to the extent of, “His group may be evil, but his coin weighs the same.” (Not in any way an exact copy, just a basic paraphrase) So basically, if a specific son of svanir proves himself a ruthless killer/pillager he would be booted from Hoelbrak upon trying to enter because of the danger he would bring to the stead, but this doesn’t mean that every tom, dick, and harry son of svanir deserve the same treatment.
Try talking to these SoS. They are openly hostile and threaten to kill you if you don’t leave. The only reason they would be there is because it is a safe place they can rest, recover and recruit or kidnap other norn.
Precisely, it’s all threats.
There’s no physical violence. They don’t kidnap, they don’t start brawls, and they don’t actually kill if you linger. They just threaten. They have bark, but no bite. Those in Hoelbrak at least.
Except for when you’re allowed to kill them, during a certain personal storyline step.[/quote]
They don’t attack you because Anter doesn’t allow any fighting in the captail city. Anet has not clarifed whether they would kill you in lore. The SoS start off being Norn who crave power and seek it from Jormag. They start off on the path of becoming Icebrood and once they become Icebrood they could use the knowledge of Hoelbrak to attack it when Jormag is ready.
I really am not seeing how you’re not seeing that you yourself are pointing out the answer to your question.
Fighting isn’t allowed in Hoelbrak. Not just mechanically, but in lore too – if they fight, they get tossed out. They’re not fighting. They’re not killing. The only time the Sons of Svanir in Hoelbrak actually kill is during Twilight of the Wolf and that’s because we killed an icebrood (which, unlike the relation between icebrood and Sons of Svanir everywhere else, attacked the SoS) – in other words, we instigated the fight with those Sons of Svanir, and they’re not even close to on par to other Sons of Svanir who have icebrood wolves as cooperative pets even just outside Hoelbrak.
All the “issues” you bring up for why it doesn’t make sense that the SoS are allowed in Hoelbrak is exactly why they are – they’re not the issues, they’re the solutions. Yes, they can kill – but so can everyone else, and everyone be they Sons of Svanir or not are only allowed until they cause such trouble. Yes, they can become a threat in the future, but that’s in the future and not the present – in the future, if they become a threat, then they’ll be dealt with.
That’s how the norn think on it. They don’t condemn one member of the Sons of Svanir who’s done nothing wrong himself except believe that Jormag’s the strongest Spirit of the Wild (which in itself is no more wrong than a norn believing in the Six Gods – its the practices which such belief in Jormag usually promotes that is wrong, and these Sons of Svanir are not seen doing such) just because other Sons of Svanir have done wrong things.
What they might do is irrelevant, what they say they’ll do is irrelevant. What’s relevant is what they – the very individual – does.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Think of real-world extremist political groups, such as far-Right ones.
They may be shunned and hated for their beliefs and the violence the groups often use, but membership isn’t illegal (for most). It would be entirely likely to find groups of them in capital cities, with the authorities wary and distrustful.
They don’t attack you because Anter[Anet] doesn’t allow any fighting in the captail city. Anet has not clarifed whether they would kill you in lore.
I get where you’re coming from (the mechanics vs. lore question) but I do think that stuff in the game does kind of say that they won’t attack people while in Hoelbrak, even in lore. If they did, they would no longer be suffered there, effective immediately. They get their base there as long as they obey the rules of Hoelbrak just like everyone else. The rules of Hoelbrak, mind you – just the city. There are no norn ‘laws’ that all are bound by.
Besides, in game terms the Svanir in Hoelbrak serve no purpose other than to show that there are Svanir in Hoelbrak. If ArenaNet meant for them to actually be violent, they could have just not put any in the city, as is the case for most other racial enemies (the exception being the Inquest, for similar reasons).
The SoS start off being Norn who crave power and seek it from Jormag. They start off on the path of becoming Icebrood and once they become Icebrood they could use the knowledge of Hoelbrak to attack it when Jormag is ready.
Sure, but that’s true of pretty much any norn who ends up serving any dragon. That’s no reason to make a special exception to bar them from the city. It’s not like Hoelbrak exactly has a lot of secrets or fortifications (just, in true norn form, the strength of its individual inhabitants).
Small correction – the human equivalent of inquest/flame legion/SoS etc is the bandits, not the centaurs. All the others you’ve listed are rogue splinter groups of the same race.
Small correction – the human equivalent of inquest/flame legion/SoS etc is the bandits, not the centaurs. All the others you’ve listed are rogue splinter groups of the same race.
Also, the Bandits appear to be under the influence of the modern White Mantle, which kind of improves how interesting they may seem compared to all the other more exotic splinter groups.
Former Guild Wars 2 fan. RIP, ArenaNet’s integrity.
Well not all of the bandits, some of them. Bandits are in my opinion the least threatening faction, as their only motivation is money. They will work for anyone providing this money, no matter what this benefactor’s goals are. The White Mantle, the centaurs, the Inquest and some ministers of Kryta, all hire bandits to get their dirty work done.
Compare this to other racial enemies, who all have their own distinct goal, usually world domination and the bandits seem rather petty.
The Inquest is exactly the opposite, they let other people do the dirty work for them, bandits, dredge and maybe even the Nightmare Court. Besides that, they managed to optain the corrupting power of several dragons and are right now figuering out how to use it. With their different bases all over Tyria, they are also the most global threat. Last but not least they are tolerated, if not benefited by the Arcane Council.
Forget about the White Mantle or the Flame Legion, the Inquest is far more dangerous than them.
You don’t win friends with salad! Sorry I just got caught up in the rhythm.
Actually, its heavily implied that all bandits are indeed under the influence of the White Mantle.
Those in Queensdale, Harathi Hinterlands, and Brisban Wildlands (as well as lvl 1-10 human personal storyline, including the street gang storyline) all use the same symbol as identification. Harathi Hinterlands, Caudecus Mansion, and Kessex Hills bandits are all in an alliance with the centaurs. At least one camp in Kessex Hills, allied with the centaurs, is outright stated to be led by White Mantle. Another camp in Kessex Hills, also allied with the centaurs, is outright stated to be working for Caudecus.
And if you pay attention, the motivation for bandits isn’t money.
Its anarchism.
Bandits in Harathi Hinterlands, street rat storyline, and Brisban Wildlands all mention the same thing: Queen Jennah is a tyrant! The White Mantle in the orphan storyline says the same.
You gotta pay close attention about them bandits. They’re all clearly united, and their leaders are the White Mantle – though the grunts, modest citizens who fell on hard times and blame the queen, don’t know this and some don’t like attacking people (so clearly those folks don’t know about the alliance with the centaurs).
And I think that bringing down Queen Jennah to retake control of the nation (either directly or via Caudecus) is just as bad as others, especially when they’re in an alliance with centaurs (who hate humans and norn), Inquest (who are interested in mursaat and Elder Dragon magic – guess who leads the White Mantle?), and Nightmare Court (who intend to effectively corrupt an entire race into being sadistic masochistic kittens)… I fear the White Mantle are the true biggest threats. They’re the masterminds, the puppet masters, behind half of the other racial threats.
If you consider the Inquest to be the biggest threat because they’re using dragon magic and have bases all over Tyria, what about the White Mantle who are in an alliance with the Inquest, give them subjects to experiment on, and have things the Inquest wants (mursaat artifacts, I’m sure the White Mantle kept a few)? The White Mantle can easily bargain their way into having the Inquest do their dirty work.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
And, as Konig mentioned, they possibly have one of the MOST dangerous races possible pulling their strings.
Well maybe the human storyline I played made them look more like this, than they actually are, but the White Mantle looked pretty run down. So they intended to kill a bunch of people that are important for the kingdom Kryta, yet they let themselves be lured into an obvious trap (one of the storyline options). I know there is a difference between lore and gameplay, that means their level doesn’t indicate how strong they are in lore, but it’s clearly shown in the storyline that they were gullible enough to believe that Logan, the captain of the Seraph Guard in Divinity’s Reach(!), would just walk through the Kessex Hills, all alone.
How threating are such idiots really? I’m pretty sure they aren’t defeated yet and will come back in future content updates, possibly even with some surviving Mursaat to back them up, but I highly doubt that they are in any position to bargain with the Inquest. Yes they have Mursaat relics, but they are not the only source of them. I’m pretty sure the Inquest has established a base on the Fire Island already (though I always ask myself how they fund themselves). Besides that the Mursaat are just one of many races with interesting artifacts. The Inquest are way to proud and intelligent to end up with the worse deal when they interact with other factions.
And you really think the Inquest would do the dirty work for others for a bunch of artifacts? The Inquest is shown to be not above doing various crimes to get what they want, but their dealings with other races so far show, that they always make sure they are getting the most out of it. Besides that, they are supremacists, why would they run around and do what humans ask them to do? They’d rather hire another race, like centaurs to do it for them.
Okay I was wrong with the bandit’s motivation, but I don’t think that makes them more threatening. They still just work for anyone with the same cause, even if they are all influenced by the White Mantle. By the way I’m not sure if it’s proven only by the fact that they use the same symbol, that they are part of the WM, it could just mean “Hey we are bandits too, so find some other place to pillage!” I admit however, that it lookes suspiciously close to the White Mantle symbol.
You don’t win friends with salad! Sorry I just got caught up in the rhythm.
It does seem to me that either the Inquest or the Flame Legion are the greatest threat. The Flame Legion have the muscle, but they lack the world-spanning vision of the Inquest.
The Bandits and their White Mantle manipulators seem perhaps the least of a threat, if only for their lack of organisation and their reliance on common criminality. The Sons of Svanir, due to the individualist nature of Norn, also seem to lack the “global threat” stature of the Inquest and Flame Legion.
Well maybe the human storyline I played made them look more like this, than they actually are, but the White Mantle looked pretty run down. So they intended to kill a bunch of people that are important for the kingdom Kryta, yet they let themselves be lured into an obvious trap (one of the storyline options).
The White Mantle in that story were pretty stupid, and far too arrogant for a cult that has been hunted to all but extinction. I would assume, however, that there are much more threatening commanders behind the scenes. Whether they have contact with the Mursaat again or are just trying to reclaim their former glory (seeing themselves as rightful, divinely-mandated rulers of Kryta), they seem to currently be mostly anti-royalist. I won’t be surprised if most of the anti-monarchy plots/complaints among the ministers come from Mantle infiltration and instigation (but maybe I’ve just been exposed to too much Assassins vs. Templars lately… :P)
For all that, there will be some disgruntled types who think they’re more powerful than they are because of Mantle connections. I wouldn’t rate the Mantle in that personal story much more highly than the bandits on the threat scale, nor on how important they are to any bigger picture.
As an aside, yes the bandits will in general work for money above all else, but I don’t think they’d work for the Seraph for any wages. My guess would be that in addition to natural disgruntlement and anarchists, someone has been riling people up and convincing them that the throne is responsible for all their problems. That doesn’t mean the bandit leaders don’t sincerely believe they’re working against an evil tyrant with no concern for her common people!
Konig, after reading over your comments again it’s starting to make more sense. I still think it isn’t wise to allow the SoS to stay in Hoelbrak. But I understand why they allow it.
Thanks for your insight.
Note: In the “butchers their children and burns down their homes” part I was referring to the all the corrupted/destroyed homesteads and lodges you can find in Snowden Drifts, Wayfarer’s Foothills and Frostgorge Sound. Those homes undoubtley had families living in them, and I don’t think Norn would give up their homes freely (given how pridefull they are).
Dear A-net: Please nerf rock. Paper is fine
~Sincerely, Scissors
~Sincerely, Scissors