Guild Wars 2

I’ve been playing Guild Wars 2 on and off for awhile- as an Asura character, I’ve been sort of ‘roleplaying’ to get into the spirit of the game and enjoy my time spent playing a bit more, although it’s really more like creating immersion and really getting into the universe.

As a result, I realized an interest in the Skritt, who fascinate me and seem like a really well designed and cool subrace. When I read about the ‘Racial Sympathy Quest’ and saw that Skritt was an option, I got really interested and started playing a lot more, all the way up to my current level (45) over the course of only a few weeks. However, I know now that for whatever reason, the Asura are incapable of siding with the Skritt. On the wiki, this is because “Asura detest Skritt.”

That’s a bit ridiculous. In the same way that not all humans hate one thing or another, I don’t see why ALL Asura must hate the Skritt which, to be honest, are quite likable. I really like my Asura character, and I really like the Skritt, but not being able to have both is really immersion breaking.

The best longterm solution would obviously be allowing any race to choose whatever subrace they want to help regardless, and have consequences for making a choice that would alienate you from the majority of your race, but it’s understandable how unlikely that is, given how much work would be involved. However, a short term solution would be acceptable as well, for myself at least and whoever else feels the same way.

I didn’t think posting this to the forums was the best option, but when I sent an email asking if there was anything that could be done to help me out to the Support, they directed me here. I’m pretty sure that was just their way of going “You’re annoying and we already have your money, so go away” but I decided to try anyways.

Edit:
(Response to Posters)

it’s not because you’re asura, it’s because of whatever order you chose.

and asuras don’t like skritt in the same way humans don’t like mosquitoes. to their race, it’s just an impossibly unlikeable burden and annoyance, furthered by the skritt’s love of shinies causing problems with asuran experiments all the time.

that said, there are plenty of examples of asuras tolerating skritt, or studying them.

The first part isn’t true- my friend, a Sylvari character, was allowed to choose Skritt. Both of us chose The Order of Whispers. All of my available sources say that it’s due to race.

As for the rest, that’s still all personal taste. I suppose if I wanted to use an extreme example, I could bring up Termites, which literally eat away the hard work of humans slowly. Yet I guarantee that there are positives to it and there are some that study and really like termites.

Skritt are even more redeemable than termites, though. Sure they interfere with some experiments, but their capacity for a hive-mind gain of intelligence is a very interesting trait, one that could eventually, if studying and understood, bring the Skritt to a point of intelligence even higher than that of the Asura eventually.

It isn’t hard to imagine my character having the viewpoint that allying with the Skritt early is for the best, to stay on good terms.

it’s not because you’re asura, it’s because of whatever order you chose.

and asuras don’t like skritt in the same way humans don’t like mosquitoes. to their race, it’s just an impossibly unlikeable burden and annoyance, furthered by the skritt’s love of shinies causing problems with asuran experiments all the time.

that said, there are plenty of examples of asuras tolerating skritt, or studying them.

The Asura value education and intelligence, so the obvious stupidity of the skritt annoys them. To make matters worse , as soon researchers try to prove their superiority over these brainless rodents the skritt outsmart them and steal their lab equipment. Precision engineered magitech gizmos are smashed to bits just so the shiny bits can be put into pile. How can this be possible in the eternal alchemy! Arghh don’t you fell the hatred too?

BrunoBRS.5178:

it’s not because you’re asura, it’s because of whatever order you chose.

and asuras don’t like skritt in the same way humans don’t like mosquitoes. to their race, it’s just an impossibly unlikeable burden and annoyance, furthered by the skritt’s love of shinies causing problems with asuran experiments all the time.

that said, there are plenty of examples of asuras tolerating skritt, or studying them.

The first part isn’t true- my friend, a Sylvari character, was allowed to choose Skritt. Both of us chose The Order of Whispers. All of my available sources say that it’s due to race.

As for the rest, that’s still all personal taste. I suppose if I wanted to use an extreme example, I could bring up Termites, which literally eat away the hard work of humans slowly. Yet I guarantee that there are positives to it and there are some that study and really like termites.

Skritt are even more redeemable than termites, though. Sure they interfere with some experiments, but their capacity for a hive-mind gain of intelligence is a very interesting trait, one that could eventually, if studying and understood, bring the Skritt to a point of intelligence even higher than that of the Asura eventually.

It isn’t hard to imagine my character having the viewpoint that allying with the Skritt early is for the best, to stay on good terms.

It’s bilateral. The skritt seem by far more intelligent like any asura if just some of them get together and if they do so they start to call the asura dumb. The skritt possibly understand more of the eternal alchemy and try to keep the world together while the asura are more or less working on destroying it without understanding why.

Had a post, it got wiped.

Anyway, sympathy is based off Race, not order. Asura generally dislike Skritt, so it doesn’t make sense for their sympathy missions to focus on Skritt possibly.

HOWEVER, we see SEVERAL Asura who effectively use Skritt as helpers/assistants throughout the world.

I think that Asura come from skritt in a same way how human comes from hairy ape.

I think it makes sense for Asura not being able to choose Skritt. Even if they don’t hate them I think all Asura see Skritt as useless in the fight against dragons. And that’s what this mission is about, finding allies to fight the dragon threat. Why would an Asura waste their time with Skritt, they know them better than any other race and so far don’t see much use in them except that they can be exploited to some degree.

Other races see potential in the Skritt which Asura, after decades of negative stereotyping, can not see. For the same reason a Norn can’t choose Skritt, they are too small, how could they forge their legend and defeat the dragon armies? The Asura are atleast individually smart, the Skritt are not, better not waste you time with them, rather recruit some ogres or grawl. Those are big, strong and tough.

A Charr, human or Sylvari on the other hand see the ingenuity, the solidarity and curiosity, respectively.

As I already stated in one of my above replies, an unbiased scientist, which is what any individual Asura could be (should they try) would see the potential behind the Skritt.

Just because the majority of the race dislike something does NOT mean that all Asura should be forced to adhere to that line of thinking. To think that is ridiculous and just completely immersion breaking. I would advise all new responders to read my reply above. Actually, I’ll just edit it into the OP.

Asura, as a race, seem to be the most self-biased group in the whole continent.

Lostwingman.5034:

Asura, as a race, seem to be the most self-biased group in the whole continent.

this.

the asura aren’t unbiased, they’re as biased as it gets. they think they are, without a trace of a doubt, the most important things to ever exist. “i personify genius”. they’re arrogant and egocentric.

BrunoBRS.5178:

Lostwingman.5034:

Asura, as a race, seem to be the most self-biased group in the whole continent.

this.

the asura aren’t unbiased, they’re as biased as it gets. they think they are, without a trace of a doubt, the most important things to ever exist. “i personify genius”. they’re arrogant and egocentric.

That does not mean that all of them are. Whether it would be viewed as weird, strange, or freakish for an Asura to like Skritt by other Asura, that does not change the fact that minority opinions exist among all groups, and to assume that isn’t the case is really immersion breaking. To argue otherwise is just false semantics that hold no actual weight. Individual personalities exist, this is a fact.

Zetal.5710:

BrunoBRS.5178:

Lostwingman.5034:

Asura, as a race, seem to be the most self-biased group in the whole continent.

this.

the asura aren’t unbiased, they’re as biased as it gets. they think they are, without a trace of a doubt, the most important things to ever exist. “i personify genius”. they’re arrogant and egocentric.

That does not mean that all of them are. Whether it would be viewed as weird, strange, or freakish for an Asura to like Skritt by other Asura, that does not change the fact that minority opinions exist among all groups, and to assume that isn’t the case is really immersion breaking. To argue otherwise is just false semantics that hold no actual weight. Individual personalities exist, this is a fact.

There is only one group of animals in the world I truly hate and those are mosquitoes. I do believe most people would agree with me that those insects are the bane of warm summer evenings. However there are still people out there who study and like them. Heck I once read an article about a scientist who loves mosquitoes so much she let’s them drink her blood and calls them her babies. That’s weird in my eyes, but whatever floats her boat. Such behaviour is extremely rare though, you would probably find not even 1 in a million people who does that.

If Asura see Skritt like many humans see mosquitos, than you would be very hard pressed to find an Asura who not only studies, but likes them. And would such a person be the type who also takes up arms against the dragons? Could be, but the chance is even less likely in my eyes. It may be generalization but in the end you can say Asura as a whole just don’t like Skritt enough for it to be justifiable that they have a racial sympathy for them. Of course there are individuals, but too few to make a difference.

Besides, as I said before, words have power. If the Asura as a society continue to belittle the Skritt, the number of Skritt fans among them will not rise. In other words, they just don’t know any better than thinking of the Skritt as useless thieves. Unless the Arcane Council starts a big political correctness campagin I doubt that will change. I mean they still call humans bookah, which could be seen as a racial slur and they don’t seem to think that it is wrong at all. Tells you a lot about the Asura as a society.

BuddhaKeks.4857:

Zetal.5710:

BrunoBRS.5178:

Lostwingman.5034:

Asura, as a race, seem to be the most self-biased group in the whole continent.

this.

the asura aren’t unbiased, they’re as biased as it gets. they think they are, without a trace of a doubt, the most important things to ever exist. “i personify genius”. they’re arrogant and egocentric.

That does not mean that all of them are. Whether it would be viewed as weird, strange, or freakish for an Asura to like Skritt by other Asura, that does not change the fact that minority opinions exist among all groups, and to assume that isn’t the case is really immersion breaking. To argue otherwise is just false semantics that hold no actual weight. Individual personalities exist, this is a fact.

There is only one group of animals in the world I truly hate and those are mosquitoes. I do believe most people would agree with me that those insects are the bane of warm summer evenings. However there are still people out there who study and like them. Heck I once read an article about a scientist who loves mosquitoes so much she let’s them drink her blood and calls them her babies. That’s weird in my eyes, but whatever floats her boat. Such behaviour is extremely rare though, you would probably find not even 1 in a million people who does that.

If Asura see Skritt like many humans see mosquitos, than you would be very hard pressed to find an Asura who not only studies, but likes them. And would such a person be the type who also takes up arms against the dragons? Could be, but the chance is even less likely in my eyes. It may be generalization but in the end you can say Asura as a whole just don’t like Skritt enough for it to be justifiable that they have a racial sympathy for them. Of course there are individuals, but too few to make a difference.

Besides, as I said before, words have power. If the Asura as a society continue to belittle the Skritt, the number of Skritt fans among them will not rise. In other words, they just don’t know any better than thinking of the Skritt as useless thieves. Unless the Arcane Council starts a big political correctness campagin I doubt that will change. I mean they still call humans bookah, which could be seen as a racial slur and they don’t seem to think that it is wrong at all. Tells you a lot about the Asura as a society.

You make a lot of good points and you pretty much nailed it all around, but I still wish I could play my Asura character however I as the player wanted. I just don’t really understand the logic behind limiting the players ability to make lore-decisions when that kind of thing only really effects the ‘singleplayer’ experience and nothing game-breaking.

It’s a dumb restriction, considering you can guest on a different race friend’s mission and jump over it easily.

Well, you can RP your character as working with skritt easily. :P

I guess in the end this is just a rant, since they aren’t going to do anything about it regardless.

Kalavier.1097:

Had a post, it got wiped.

Anyway, sympathy is based off Race, not order. Asura generally dislike Skritt, so it doesn’t make sense for their sympathy missions to focus on Skritt possibly.

HOWEVER, we see SEVERAL Asura who effectively use Skritt as testsubjects/labrats throughout the world.

Fixed that for you. I have never seen them use skritt as helpers or assistants… they barely accept the other playable races as such (though we ofc. do know this does happen. Livia and Scarlet comes to mind). Skritt are never more than test subjects and lab rats for experiments..
Studied yes, accepted and respected as an equal race… nope. Studying something and finding intrest in it (which does happen for asura regarding skritt) is not the same as considering them worth allying with.

Ex. I find spiders ingredibly interesting and somewhat facinating. But I also hate them and find them disgusting and don’t want them anywhere near me. I will study a tarantula through the glass at the zoo, but I’d freak if the glass was not there. I think this relation (excluding the fear) is how asura consider skritt.

All the races have a minor race or 2 that they would not, could not affiliate with for whatever reasons. The reasoning for asura not siding with skritt is actually the one that makes the most sense to me… along with charr and norn not comprehending the unwillingness of the quaggan to fight.

I like that the races diffrenciate a little even after choosing orders. I love the different stories possible. Just pick up one of the races that can side with skritt… or play the skritt storyline with a friend and rp that you went out of your way to help 2 of the minor races.

I doubt there’s any super-strong reason behind this. The “sympathy” options are different for each race, but it kind of feels more like something had to be cut for difference’s sake, so the options that seemed least plausible race-by-race were cut. Skritt would have been an easy call in that case since many asura outright don’t like them.

Just because certain orders and races dont like other races doesn’t mean anet is breaking immersion, that’s just silly. It’s pretty realistic.

Wait, what? You have limits in who you can choose from for the racial support quest? I thought everyone had the same choice of Skritt, Hylek, and Quaggan. The first time I got to that stage in the Personal Story I had an Asuran character and I don’t remember Skritt not being an option (it’s been long enough that maybe I was mistaken). If the Skritt really aren’t an option for Asurans, what are they replaced with?

Eggman.1405:

Wait, what? You have limits in who you can choose from for the racial support quest? I thought everyone had the same choice of Skritt, Hylek, and Quaggan. The first time I got to that stage in the Personal Story I had an Asuran character and I don’t remember Skritt not being an option (it’s been long enough that maybe I was mistaken). If the Skritt really aren’t an option for Asurans, what are they replaced with?

Grawl. You can find a list here.

It is because all Asura have the same personality. Haven’t you noticed that

flipyap.5789:

Just because certain orders and races dont like other races doesn’t mean anet is breaking immersion, that’s just silly. It’s pretty realistic.

It’s not realistic. Individuals, no matter the society they were socialized in, can think for themselves and evaluate reality by themselves. There IS a certain amount of individual agency. Also, not all are socialized in the same manner. Not all humans think the same on the particular issue, so why should Asura?

Asura and Norn seem to lack in this are the most in my opinion. They all have the same personality.
Can someone please point me to an Asura who doesn’t wish to work in a laboratory and isn’t a smirky kitten?

Can you point me to a Norn who wishes to marry and settle down, be decent at his work and have a stable life? No, they all wish to be legendary

Every every possibility of every individual can’t be accounted for. Some things just have to be represented by the general tendancies of the race.

Well the dislike between the Asura and Skritt go back a long time. Asura and Skritt were in direct competition with each other for resources (back when they all lived underground). Of course with the Asura being the Asura they had a rather nasty superiority complex.

Keppa used skritt as gatherer and even paid them (surely with shinies), but that ended at some point.

Q: There is one norn that likes to count snow flakes to make his legend. Why can’t we have a snowflake counter class?

A: ………Because. The race is generally about such and such.

R: That’s nonsense! My norn likes snowflakes better than magic or fighting.

A: ……..

Heh, that’s a really original idea actually. How about a Norn who tries to make his legend by counting every single grain of sand on a beach?

Dustfinger.9510:

Every every possibility of every individual can’t be accounted for. Some things just have to be represented by the general tendancies of the race.

‘Every possibility’ is one extreme while acting like a generic stereotype is another. Those are two extremes, and there can be a middle ground. Especially in a quest involving choices

You don’t have to put many choices in order to avoid the whole race to seem as if they have the same personality and prejudices

kasoki.5180:

Dustfinger.9510:

Every every possibility of every individual can’t be accounted for. Some things just have to be represented by the general tendancies of the race.

‘Every possibility’ is one extreme while acting like a generic stereotype is another. Those are two extremes, and there can be a middle ground. Especially in a quest involving choices

You don’t have to put many choices in order to avoid the whole race to seem as if they have the same personality and prejudices

Without a-net putting ‘every possibility’ in the game, there is always going to be something that falls back on the race generalization.

So picking one instance (this one) where they didn’t put a whole lot of choices and saying that causes the entire race to have the same personality means that the would need to put every possibility because any one instance that doesn’t have those choices can make it seem like the entire race is the same things.

So, unless they put in “every possibility”, there will always be something.

I kind of like the idea. It gives the opportunity to give stronger racial identities in the store because certain races are closer to the minor races than others.

Also, I’m glad the charr don’t give a flip about quaggan. It’s one part of the game that enables them to make your race matter. I want my race to matter and I dislike it when racial identities are eroded simply so that outliers can exist. Save that stuff for your role playing.

To me, racial sympathies are part of racial identities. I like that there are boundaries, they enhance my immersion in the world and help to make real the races of Tyria.

Dustfinger.9510:

kasoki.5180:

Dustfinger.9510:

Every every possibility of every individual can’t be accounted for. Some things just have to be represented by the general tendancies of the race.

‘Every possibility’ is one extreme while acting like a generic stereotype is another. Those are two extremes, and there can be a middle ground. Especially in a quest involving choices

You don’t have to put many choices in order to avoid the whole race to seem as if they have the same personality and prejudices

Without a-net putting ‘every possibility’ in the game, there is always going to be something that falls back on the race generalization.

So picking one instance (this one) where they didn’t put a whole lot of choices and saying that causes the entire race to have the same personality means that the would need to put every possibility because any one instance that doesn’t have those choices can make it seem like the entire race is the same things.

So, unless they put in “every possibility”, there will always be something.

No it won’t. Only thing needed to break this notion how they all think alike is to simply put one opposite option. That’s it. You need exactly two options on any matter and you can break what currently happens with some races in GW : they all think alike.

For example
Situation 1 —> The one in game if I understood correctly
Can player pick Skritts?
Player choice A: No

Argumentation : No they can not because player race is Asura, and they ALL dislike Skritts

Situation 2
Can player pick Skritts?
Player choice A: Yes
Player choice B: NO
Argumentation : Even though there is a trend of Asuras disliking Skritts, player is not necessarily one of those people.

It takes literally two choices, Yes or No, to fix this sociological horror in GW narrative

@Kasoki
But there is more than 1 option. Everyone regardless of race gets 3 options… for asura, skritt is just not one of them. I think it would be too much to have all races be able to choose all of the sympathies options (which you might as well if you add one to asura). Or do you just want skritt added to asura and nothing else (actually seems to be the core of this), maybe change one of the other choices.

I agree with Shiren.

kasoki.5180:

Dustfinger.9510:

kasoki.5180:

Dustfinger.9510:

Every every possibility of every individual can’t be accounted for. Some things just have to be represented by the general tendancies of the race.

‘Every possibility’ is one extreme while acting like a generic stereotype is another. Those are two extremes, and there can be a middle ground. Especially in a quest involving choices

You don’t have to put many choices in order to avoid the whole race to seem as if they have the same personality and prejudices

Without a-net putting ‘every possibility’ in the game, there is always going to be something that falls back on the race generalization.

So picking one instance (this one) where they didn’t put a whole lot of choices and saying that causes the entire race to have the same personality means that the would need to put every possibility because any one instance that doesn’t have those choices can make it seem like the entire race is the same things.

So, unless they put in “every possibility”, there will always be something.

No it won’t. Only thing needed to break this notion how they all think alike is to simply put one opposite option. That’s it. You need exactly two options on any matter and you can break what currently happens with some races in GW : they all think alike.

For example
Situation 1 —> The one in game if I understood correctly
Can player pick Skritts?
Player choice A: No

Argumentation : No they can not because player race is Asura, and they ALL dislike Skritts

Situation 2
Can player pick Skritts?
Player choice A: Yes
Player choice B: NO
Argumentation : Even though there is a trend of Asuras disliking Skritts, player is not necessarily one of those people.

It takes literally two choices, Yes or No, to fix this sociological horror in GW narrative

Asura already have outliers represented in the game. The only way we can claim that the asura all seem to be the same is by ignoring all the outliers that already exist and only focusing on the scenarios where the outliers aren’t represented. But as long as there are scenarios where the outliers aren’t represented, you can just claim that all asura are the same simply by focusing on that one issue. So how many near infinite scenarios does a-net need to address in order to give the option to be an outlier in all things?

The fact is, in games where the lore is told through the game, often times, the general options and attitudes of the races is set in the mechanics. Giving too many options for an outlier only fades to general lore of the race into non existence because the general lore of the race is told in part by these limited options.

It doesn’t matter how many scenarios there are since it is not about quantity, rather, it is about explanation behind them.

Also, lore and integration can be given through history of the race, or by showing you the society of that race, their everyday live. Showing you accomplishments of the race, and including you, the protagonist, as one of the actors of that race glorious moments. Integration should not be given via compulsory racism. That should be optional for those who wish to roleplay that way.

Also, let me just ask, what is general lore of a certain race and why is it the determining factor of individual’s action?

It seems to me that you’ve missed my entire point if you think that giving option to ‘rebel’ against current social trends breaks the general lore of the race. Because the general lore of any race is not, nor will ever be that they will ALL act the same in same situations. Lore of the race is related to their history, trends in their society, relations with others and their surroundings. And that is how it should be presented, not by forced conformity. (Or maybe I misunderstood your last paragraph)

And also, I would really like you to show me those Asura outsiders, I have never seen them in game and that would really improve my general opinion of GW narrative when it comes to races.

Cheers

kasoki.5180:

It doesn’t matter how many scenarios there are since it is not about quantity, rather, it is about explanation behind them.

Also, lore and integration can be given through history of the race, or by showing you the society of that race, their everyday live. Showing you accomplishments of the race, and including you, the protagonist, as one of the actors of that race glorious moments. Integration should not be given via compulsory racism. That should be optional for those who wish to roleplay that way.

Also, let me just ask, what is general lore of a certain race and why is it the determining factor of individual’s action?

because a-net can’t program every possible option that someone can imagine their individual character taking. That’s what RP is for. In fact, what you are doing by saying that your asura likes skritt is RPing. But what you are asking A-net to do is change the mechanics to tailor to your individual RP. But there is too many different RP characters for them to do it to tailor the gam to everybodies own vision of their character.

It seems to me that you’ve missed my entire point if you think that giving option to ‘rebel’ against current social trends breaks the general lore of the race. Because the general lore of any race is not, nor will ever be that they will ALL act the same in same situations. Lore of the race is related to their history, trends in their society, relations with others and their surroundings. And that is how it should be presented, not by forced conformity. (Or maybe I misunderstood your last paragraph)

It seems you’ve missed my entire point. Race lore is also the flavor and zeitgeist of a society. Those trends and zeitgeist will have tendancies that are so much easier and practical to represent than every other possible option that someone may want.

And also, I would really like you to show me those Asura outsiders, I have never seen them in game and that would really improve my general opinion of GW narrative when it comes to races.

Cheers

Yeah, they’re smattered throughout the game. There’s asura that work with skritt. There’s an asura that has no interest in ‘science’. There’s asura devoted to the charr technology of engineering class over the racial preference of magitech. There’s very peasant asura when most tend to be egotistical and overbearing. there a notable asura in the PS that is portrayed as not to bright. There’s asura that care strongly against the inquest using sentient being in their experiements while there is also asura working with the charr who expresses his surprise that the charr inventor doesn’t keep disposable assistants around. Their a lot of variety in the NPC’s through out tyria. all we have to do is explore a little to find it.

Dustfinger.9510:

There’s an asura that has no interest in ‘science’.

“There is no profit in the eternal alchemy” – basically every Asura merchant.
So I’d say there is a lot more than just an Asura not interested in science.

Dustfinger.9510:

Their a lot of variety in the NPC’s through out tyria. all we have to do is explore a little to find it.

Ah but that’s where the problem comes in. Most players don’t really explore and only get exposed to the most-in-your-face examples which also happen to be the most stereotypical.

Dustfinger.9510:

There’s very peasant asura when most tend to be egotistical and overbearing.

These ones usually get killed off. Grr.

IMO it all revolves around how useful the tribal race would be considered in a fight against dragons, based on your upringing lorewise.
for example, charr and norn would not work with the quaggans, but espacially norn don’t detest quaggans or hate them, they just don’t think they’re capable of being a better ally in their fight than, say, an ogre, because lorewise they were brought up to respect physical strength.

It’s the same with the asura, they don’t think brutish ogres or stupid skritt are capable of holding themselves in a fight against an incredible mighty and wise being like an elder dragon.

Dustfinger.9510:

kasoki.5180:

It doesn’t matter how many scenarios there are since it is not about quantity, rather, it is about explanation behind them.

Also, lore and integration can be given through history of the race, or by showing you the society of that race, their everyday live. Showing you accomplishments of the race, and including you, the protagonist, as one of the actors of that race glorious moments. Integration should not be given via compulsory racism. That should be optional for those who wish to roleplay that way.

Also, let me just ask, what is general lore of a certain race and why is it the determining factor of individual’s action?

because a-net can’t program every possible option that someone can imagine their individual character taking. That’s what RP is for. In fact, what you are doing by saying that your asura likes skritt is RPing. But what you are asking A-net to do is change the mechanics to tailor to your individual RP. But there is too many different RP characters for them to do it to tailor the gam to everybodies own vision of their character.

How is this a reply to what I’ve said? You didn’t adress anything that I have said. I gave you alternatives to how you can integrate a player character into a community and you didn’t even acknowledge it.

Also, why are you twisting my words? I have never said that all the possible options should be given. Nor did my words even imply it. I have said that only a minimum should be given which allows your player to break out of the negative stereotypes he/she doesn’t wish to be associated with.

Dustfinger.9510:

kasoki.5180:

It seems to me that you’ve missed my entire point if you think that giving option to ‘rebel’ against current social trends breaks the general lore of the race. Because the general lore of any race is not, nor will ever be that they will ALL act the same in same situations. Lore of the race is related to their history, trends in their society, relations with others and their surroundings. And that is how it should be presented, not by forced conformity. (Or maybe I misunderstood your last paragraph)

It seems you’ve missed my entire point. Race lore is also the flavor and zeitgeist of a society. Those trends and zeitgeist will have tendancies that are so much easier and practical to represent than every other possible option that someone may want.

‘Zeitgeist’ doesn’t mean that all individuals think/behave the same on the issue. It means that there is a trend. Trend =/= everyone.

Argument how it’s not easy to implement in game doesn’t work in this case. Why? Because this was a quest which already included multiple options. And you were denied one of those on the basis of race. In this particular option, you have forced me to RP as a rascist Asura

Not to mention how this game is full of conversations that have absolutely no impact on the game. Giving you opportunity to simply say how this is not because you are an Asura, since Asuras have a tendency to dislike skritt is no large feat to acomplish.

There is nothing problematic with race lore, there is nothing problematic with showing certain trends within a certain society. Compulsory rascism and conformity is problematic and should be reserved for those who wish to roleplay it that way.

This is what I’m trying to argument here. If you force me to choose a certain behavior simply because I belong to a certain race, that is a bad writing.

When you force me into a choice, and then explain it with ‘well, you are a member of race X, so you MUST feel that way’, that is a terrible writing. That is a terrible perception of individuals and society and their relation.

Again, before you turn it into how this obviously means that they have to include every possible option, it isn’t about quantity of choices but rather about the explanation and argumentation behind them.

I’m not entirely certain I want to wade into this minefield, but I’m going to try…

The asura and skritt have a long history with each other, both races having lived underground until Primordus drove them to the surface. So, in a sense, the skritt are the traditional enemy of the asura from way, way back. It’s quite similar to how the charr and humans were back around the time of the Searing. Now, I’m not saying that the skritt could never become allies of the asura, but it took 250 years before even a tentative peace could be reached between the two races, and even now, there are a few that aren’t very happy about them working together. (Gods help the separatist humans who join the Vigil…)

So let me try presenting it a different way: before the Flame Legion was cast out, before meeting the northern charr in Eye of the North, could you see it possible for the humans to reach out to the charr for help in fighting against the dragons if they suddenly arose? It’s pretty much the same thing. Sure, one or two asura might consider this action, but they are greatly the minority and it would be extremely unusual. (Plus, it would’ve required that much more VA to be recorded and downloaded. :p )

So while I can understand the disappointment of wanting your asura to reach out to the skritt in asking for their help, it is greatly uncharacteristic of the race on a whole, and the devs decided not to include that route. Unfortunate, but understandable. It’s just… one of those things.

CureForLiving.5360:

Dustfinger.9510:

There’s an asura that has no interest in ‘science’.

“There is no profit in the eternal alchemy” – basically every Asura merchant.
So I’d say there is a lot more than just an Asura not interested in science.

I think what those merchants are saying is that according to the EA, there is ultimately no concept of profit. Like the laws of energy transference. There is a distinct pause in between the words ‘profit’ and ‘in’. And they accentuate the word ‘is’. So what they are actually saying is, “There IS no profit… in the Eternal Alchemy”. They aren’t saying that there is no profit in subscribing to the Eternal Alchemy because they are basically quoting scripture as a way to justify their prices.

Dustfinger.9510:

Their a lot of variety in the NPC’s through out tyria. all we have to do is explore a little to find it.

Ah but that’s where the problem comes in. Most players don’t really explore and only get exposed to the most-in-your-face examples which also happen to be the most stereotypical.

I don’t see that as a problem. It’s no different than RL People who don’ bother to learn about the real world only see general trends and steriotypes. If they have no interest in learning about the world, we can’t force them. But they also aren’t qualified to complain. They’re certainly free to do so (and often do) but baseless complaints are easily dismissable.

Zeefa.3915:

Fixed that for you. I have never seen them use skritt as helpers or assistants… they barely accept the other playable races as such (though we ofc. do know this does happen. Livia and Scarlet comes to mind). Skritt are never more than test subjects and lab rats for experiments..
Studied yes, accepted and respected as an equal race… nope. Studying something and finding intrest in it (which does happen for asura regarding skritt) is not the same as considering them worth allying with..

Wrong. A: There is a Skritt used as a messenger/runner for the Lionguard in Metrica Province.
B: During tower of Nightmares the one Asura in the Priory had an assisstant Skritt who died within the tower before it’s collapse. Skritt wasn’t described as a labrat.
C: In Orr, Cursed Shore at the camp that gets attacked by tar elementals. The Asura there has a Skritt collect items and run errands. The skritt is not treated as a lab rat, and is instead more like an assistant. A dumb one perhaps, but one either way.

There are likely more around that I’ve forgotten, but they exist.

Did I say all asura respect the skritt? No. I simply said there are cases where Asura DO have helpers who are Skritt. The three listed above were NEVER treated or indicated as lab experiments or study subjects.

To be fair, the first example is a guy employed by Lionguard, not by Asura, though other examples are fine

kasoki.5180:

How is this a reply to what I’ve said? You didn’t adress anything that I have said. I gave you alternatives to how you can integrate a player character into a community and you didn’t even acknowledge it.

Also, why are you twisting my words? I have never said that all the possible options should be given. Nor did my words even imply it. I have said that only a minimum should be given which allows your player to break out of the negative stereotypes he/she doesn’t wish to be associated with.

There are a near infinite amount of things they can do to allow your character to break steriotypes. It seems you only care about the one that is suited to your personal RP. A-net can’t cater to everyones RP and they won’t randomly decide to focus on yours.

kasoki.5180:

‘Zeitgeist’ doesn’t mean that all individuals think/behave the same on the issue. It means that there is a trend. Trend =/= everyone.

Right. A-net can’t cater to everyone’s RP. So they represent the tendancies and any one of the near infinite deviations can’t really be addressed.

Argument how it’s not easy to implement in game doesn’t work in this case. Why? Because this was a quest which already included multiple options. And you were denied one of those on the basis of race. In this particular option, you have forced me to RP as a rascist Asura

Why not skelk? Or harpies? Or any thing else that wasn’t chosen as an option?

Not to mention how this game is full of conversations that have absolutely no impact on the game. Giving you opportunity to simply say how this is not because you are an Asura, since Asuras have a tendency to dislike skritt is no large feat to acomplish.

There is nothing problematic with race lore, there is nothing problematic with showing certain trends within a certain society. Compulsory rascism and conformity is problematic and should be reserved for those who wish to roleplay it that way.

This is what I’m trying to argument here. If you force me to choose a certain behavior simply because I belong to a certain race, that is a bad writing.

When you force me into a choice, and then explain it with ‘well, you are a member of race X, so you MUST feel that way’, that is a terrible writing. That is a terrible perception of individuals and society and their relation.

Again, before you turn it into how this obviously means that they have to include every possible option, it isn’t about quantity of choices but rather about the explanation and argumentation behind them.

And any option that isn’t included will harbor the same argument.