some men aren’t looking for anything logical…
some men just want to watch the world burn.
some men just want to watch the world burn.
Random thoughts
I don’t know about the possibility of Melandru creating the sylvari. To be honest, it is so open ended that it could go either way. We just have no information on the subject.
I don’t think that Balthazar would have created the charr though, as he looked at the humans and told them that they should go our and conquer/kill all the other races (charr included).
As for Abaddon, his gift of magic lead to widespread slaughter on all fronts for humanity and all the other races, though humanity did start losing (by the sounds of it). I would think he would realize his mistake, seeing as keeping magic available would lead to the death of most life before the dragons even awoke. Instead, he fought his brethren because of them taking it away.
Anyways, overall, most life seems to be completely un-tied to the gods, minus humanity. Abaddon’s actions were selfish in the end. And also, margonites were once humans. Being infused with Abaddon’s magic is what made them immortal and sterile.
The Gods arrived in Tyria while the Charr are supposedly native from this world, so there is no way Balthazar created them.
The Dragons were also there before the Gods I think, so once again, no.
As for the reste, I think it is possible but highly unlikely that Melandru had anything to do with the sylvari and that Abbadon might have had any good intentions while causing Nightfall…
Could the Slyvari have been created by Melandru? Reading her entry in the GW1 wiki her avatar that appeared before the humans sounds like the Pale Tree’s Avatar.
Too open ended to really be sure. Melandru being the origin is one of the more popular theories, though seldom discussed compared to a certain other.
If the Slyvari where created by Melandru, could Balthazar have created the Charr? Horns and fire and all.
Highly unlikely. The Six Gods aren’t known for creating animal races, and the charr were from the very beginning enemies of the Six Gods (by beginning I mean earliest known charr history). This doesn’t prevent it per se, but honestly the chances are so slim you’d be better off saying Balthazar’s mother was Dwayna and he is Grenth’s older half-brother (that’s actually very plausible in comparison given we know nothing of Balthazar’s mother).
Is there a god/dragon cycle? gods come, seed the planet with life, leave, dragons rise, kill and reset, gods come again?
The Six Gods are – unlike the Elder Dragons – not native to the world. Unlike the Elder Dragons’ cycle, the Six Gods only came once to the world. And messed it up quite a bit.
Did Abaddon rebel and give the mortals magic to try and break the cycle? With unlimited magic could we have broken the god/dragon cycle and dethroned the gods?
Abaddon’s motives are fully unknown but all indication we have points to the Six Gods not knowing about the Elder Dragons or at the very least just Zhaitan’s presence under Orr.
Abaddon did not try to give unlimited magic. The “gift of magic” was merely returning the world’s magic that was sealed by the Seer race during the previous dragon cycle. There would have been no additional magic than any previous cycle, it just would have come at a different rate than usual.
Is that why Aboddon broke away, was Nightfall his last attempt at “saving us” from the dragons? Was his “replacement” necessary to continue the cycle? The Margonites are immortal and cannot reproduce, similar to dragon minions, and Slyvari. Strange right?
Nightfall was purely an act of revenge and an attempt at freedom. Abaddon had been imprisoned – potentially unjustly – for 800 years by the first visible act of Abaddon plotting Nightfall. The entire point of it was to free him from his prison and nothing more. What Abaddon would have done after is fully unknown but Nightfall is a mere side-effect for freeing him (well, side-effect’s the wrong term but I don’t know how else to word it – causing Nightfall = Abaddon’s freedom).
Nothing says dragon minions or sylvari are unaging. The Margonites are unaging and are sterile because they lost their flesh – they’re literally etheric beings. Little different than souls in skin.
After we defeat the dragons, will the gods return with someone else in tow? Someone to take our(current races) place in the world?
Highly unlikely as there is no connection between the two beyond the Six Gods unwittingly tapping into Zhaitan’s magic to empower the Bloodstone.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Regardless of who made who, I’m kind of curious if one day the different races will align themselves with one of the human gods.
The Charr have no god, and they may realize that is a disadvantage at some point, so they may approach Balthazar to align with him, and he may accept it due to his disliking of humanities weakened state in the world compared to a couple hundred years ago. The Charr are kind of the bitter atheists of Tyria, but they may eventually suck it up and realize it’s to their advantage to believe in one of the gods. He may just give up on humanity and side with a race that is far more vicious and war prone.
Melandru siding with the Sylvari is so sensible I don’t even need to explain why. And again, they have no god that is powerful. All they have is a tree that tells them what to do based on what the dream tells it. The tree can’t throw down lighting bolts on it’s enemies or anything lol (another words, pretty week). But still, Melandru could accept the Pale Tree and the Dream as part of the hierarchy and not destroy and replace them. She would just move in as the number 1 or the co number 1 for Sylvari.
I could see Lyssa staying with the humans to be honest.
The Norn have their spirits, and I definitely don’t see them worshiping any of the gods on top of their spirits, let alone Grenth, so I kind of see Grenth going rogue against everybody someday if this hypothetical occurs.
The Asura would never worship a god, no matter how logical it is. They are the of the scientific athiests/agnostics of the world.
I cannot ever see the charr alligning with a god. Reason is: Flame Legion. That mindset you said they might have? They already had it when humans backed by their gods pushed them out of Ascalon in 100 BE. In 870 BE (roughly), the Burnt Warband of the Flame Legion discovered the titans and for 200 years the charr as a whole worshiped those demons as gods – demons backed by a real god (Abaddon), mind you but the charr didn’t know this. With the titans as their backing, the Shaman caste and the Flame Legion ruled the other three nations and practically enslaved them. The other legions only broke that enslavement in 1116 AE – roughly 110 years prior to GW2’s time. And they have since adamantly been anti-religious as they were originally because of this, even to the point of judging charr who follow any kind of religion as being Flame Legion traitors and spies. They hold extreme misotheism. Don’t expect that to change in the duration of GW2’s lifespan or timeframe.
And on the Balthazar side, he is perhaps the most pro-human of the gods, having sought to have humanity dominate all other races and rule the world. I cannot see him siding against humanity nor growing tired of them.
You should read What Scarlet Saw as it described the Pale Tree as being “god-like” – while it may just be a tree in our world, it is tied directly to the Dream of Dreams (a very very rare occurrance – and it should be noted that the Dream of Dreams is not just a sylvari thing) as well as possibly the Mists (if the Dream and Mists are not the same despite being implied to be the same at least to some degree) and the Eternal Alchemy (or whatever it was that Scarlet saw).
The norn already put the Six Gods in whole to be on par to their Spirits of the Wild. Norn call the Six Gods “Spirits of Action” and refer to them by what they represent (Death, War, Knowledge, etc.) rather than their names.
And I don’t see why Grenth would go “rogue” – nothing would really force it to become “1 god, 1 race and vice versa”.
The asura are NOT atheists or agnostic. They openly believe in the Six Gods, and the Spirits of the Wild. They do not deny divinity. They just believe that all divinity is just greater parts of the Eternal Alchemy.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
@Brother I don’t see that it would be an advantage to follow the human gods. Humanity certainly hasn’t derived any benefit for the last two centuries, and for a millennia before that the gain was only in the form of answered prayers and blessings, which, being more or less on par to results obtainable through other magic, would simply be an alternative for things the races can already do for themselves.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
@Brother I don’t see that it would be an advantage to follow the human gods. Humanity certainly hasn’t derived any benefit for the last two centuries, and for a millennia before that the gain was only in the form of answered prayers and blessings, which, being more or less on par to results obtainable through other magic, would simply be an alternative for things the races can already do for themselves.
That’s only because the gods haven’t been helping the humans out for the past couple hundred years (at least). Before that, when the gods were more actively involved, the humans dominated the other races a whole lot more. So it’s pretty clear the gods would be a huge help to any race they side with.
More of last 1,327 years now. For Year 0 until 1075 AE (roughly), it was just avatars that answered and blessed. The gods themselves have not been on the world or directly interacting (under most circumstances) for well over a thousand years now.
And I think you went and contradicted yourself by saying that they’re not helpful to humans because they’re no longer around, but would be to non-humans (implied: despite no longer being around). No one is able to contact or know where the Six Gods are, so any “siding” the races do would be one-sided (no god involved), meaning they’d be as helpful to non-humans as they would be to humans as it stands.
The gods would first have to return/make contact again.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
I cannot ever see the charr alligning with a god. Reason is: Flame Legion. That mindset you said they might have? They already had it when humans backed by their gods pushed them out of Ascalon in 100 BE. In 870 BE (roughly), the Burnt Warband of the Flame Legion discovered the titans and for 200 years the charr as a whole worshiped those demons as gods – demons backed by a real god (Abaddon), mind you but the charr didn’t know this. With the titans as their backing, the Shaman caste and the Flame Legion ruled the other three nations and practically enslaved them. The other legions only broke that enslavement in 1116 AE – roughly 110 years prior to GW2’s time. And they have since adamantly been anti-religious as they were originally because of this, even to the point of judging charr who follow any kind of religion as being Flame Legion traitors and spies. They hold extreme misotheism. Don’t expect that to change in the duration of GW2’s lifespan or timeframe.
And on the Balthazar side, he is perhaps the most pro-human of the gods, having sought to have humanity dominate all other races and rule the world. I cannot see him siding against humanity nor growing tired of them.
You should read What Scarlet Saw as it described the Pale Tree as being “god-like” – while it may just be a tree in our world, it is tied directly to the Dream of Dreams (a very very rare occurrance – and it should be noted that the Dream of Dreams is not just a sylvari thing) as well as possibly the Mists (if the Dream and Mists are not the same despite being implied to be the same at least to some degree) and the Eternal Alchemy (or whatever it was that Scarlet saw).
The norn already put the Six Gods in whole to be on par to their Spirits of the Wild. Norn call the Six Gods “Spirits of Action” and refer to them by what they represent (Death, War, Knowledge, etc.) rather than their names.
And I don’t see why Grenth would go “rogue” – nothing would really force it to become “1 god, 1 race and vice versa”.
The asura are NOT atheists or agnostic. They openly believe in the Six Gods, and the Spirits of the Wild. They do not deny divinity. They just believe that all divinity is just greater parts of the Eternal Alchemy.
I know the Charr are bitter against the concept of gods, but they are a conquering people and I think eventually they will realize that they will be stronger if they have a strong being at the center of their culture, which will allow them to conquer more.
Balthazar may, like I said/implied earlier, simply give up on humanity at some point because they are only getting weaker in their standing in Tyria.
Well even if the Dream is eternal and on the same level as the human gods, that doesn’t really mean much in terms of application. So far, all we’ve seen the dream do is command a bunch of plants to do certain things. We haven’t seen the dream actually do anything to demonstrate fear inflicting power.
Just because the Norn consider the gods to be as “strong” as their rather pathetic animal spirits (some/one of which died…) doesn’t mean that is accurate. I personally, based on evidence of power we’ve seen/read about in gw1 and gw2, think the spirits are a joke compared to the human gods.
As for Grenth, I just did that because it would make more sense for 1 race 1 god.
More of last 1,327 years now. For Year 0 until 1075 AE (roughly), it was just avatars that answered and blessed. The gods themselves have not been on the world or directly interacting (under most circumstances) for well over a thousand years now.
And I think you went and contradicted yourself by saying that they’re not helpful to humans because they’re no longer around, but would be to non-humans (implied: despite no longer being around). No one is able to contact or know where the Six Gods are, so any “siding” the races do would be one-sided (no god involved), meaning they’d be as helpful to non-humans as they would be to humans as it stands.
The gods would first have to return/make contact again.
That was implied. Of course they would have to be active in the world to give a race an advantage, I assumed I wouldn’t have to type that out.
That’s only because the gods haven’t been helping the humans out for the past couple hundred years (at least). Before that, when the gods were more actively involved, the humans dominated the other races a whole lot more. So it’s pretty clear the gods would be a huge help to any race they side with.
That superiority, though, was by GW1’s time, and likely for quite a long while beforehand, entirely based in humanity’s magic and technology. The gods didn’t make a decisive difference in any conflicts after they left, save only the one with Rotscale.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
I know the Charr are bitter against the concept of gods, but they are a conquering people and I think eventually they will realize that they will be stronger if they have a strong being at the center of their culture, which will allow them to conquer more.
You don’t seem to get it. They already tried that. And it failed. It led to self-enslavement and sexism throughout the race.
So far, all we’ve seen the dream do is command a bunch of plants to do certain things.
And foretell the future (A Light in the Darkness), act as a memory collective, and guide beings to protect the world. And be a location of hope (White Stag), and the “pre-life” for an entire race (well, maybe not entire given Malyck and his tree might not be tied to the Dream of Dreams).
It is more than just some sort of command control for the sylvari (which is a very pathetic way to describe it).
We haven’t seen the dream actually do anything to demonstrate fear inflicting power.
And Melandru, the most peace-wanting goddess, does?
Just because the Norn consider the gods to be as “strong” as their rather pathetic animal spirits (some/one of which died…) doesn’t mean that is accurate. I personally, based on evidence of power we’ve seen/read about in gw1 and gw2, think the spirits are a joke compared to the human gods.
Why do you consider the Spirits of the Wild to be “rather pathetic” – because one died? Hello Abaddon! Hey, Dhuum says hello too. As does Abaddon’s predecessor who’s name we don’t know. And possibly more we don’t know about. The Spirits of the Wild and the Six Gods just act in the world differently, but their power as far as we have seen are on par.
As for Grenth, I just did that because it would make more sense for 1 race 1 god.
Except that humanity would always have six gods, even if the god “forsake” them, and there will never be 1 god per 1 race because the charr would never worship a god and the asura would not take any god above Eternal Alchemy.
If any god would “go rogue” it’d be more likely to be either Balthazar – who’s called a “god of mass murder” – or Lyssa – who’s called the goddess of chaos. Grenth is the epitome of justice, Dwayna and Melandru of compassion and peace. And Kormir… well, she seems to be like Grenth there.
I really suggest you look further into the lore of faiths in GW, because you apparently have a very inaccurate and incomplete view of them.
That superiority, though, was by GW1’s time, and likely for quite a long while beforehand, entirely based in humanity’s magic and technology. The gods didn’t make a decisive difference in any conflicts after they left, save only the one with Rotscale.
You mean Abaddon…? Because they certainly didn’t involve themselves with Rotscale, unless you know something I don’t.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
I would be surprised if the sylvari were created by Melandru. It seems very deliberate that human culture in GW2 is localised to humans. There are examples of lesser races (that seems offensive) worshipping human gods (off the top of my head, grawls and Badazar, quaggan and Melagan) but they seemed like token world building, a way of making fun of how stupid these races are. I doubt the sylvari would be linked to Melandru because it seems deliberate that each race has their own identity and the human view of GW1 has been scrapped, forcing awkward lore to remove the gods all together.
That superiority, though, was by GW1’s time, and likely for quite a long while beforehand, entirely based in humanity’s magic and technology. The gods didn’t make a decisive difference in any conflicts after they left, save only the one with Rotscale.
You mean Abaddon…? Because they certainly didn’t involve themselves with Rotscale, unless you know something I don’t.
Nah, all they did with Abaddon was offer some words of encouragement, and possibly help with the containment of the aftermath. I was making a joke about how there just happened to be a blessings-granting statue right next to the hardest boss in the non-elite areas of the game.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
@Shiren: It is still not definitive that Melaggan is Melandru. And the crawl have always been presented as being a “we worship rocks!” race, even in gw1 (though not really focused on such, it was noticable in Recent Valley and Eastern Frontier). They are really the only joke religion race out there.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.