Guild Wars 2

No, no, this isn’t an idea about turning them into a profession… good lord, no. My question is related to roleplaying purposes (hence the lore section?) about this fascinating creature.

If we look at the Razah itself – look away from the starter profession it has in GW1 (ritualist) and focus on the being itself – a creature of Mist energy, which profession would be the closest to it? Which profession emulates this being the most?

I’ve excluded engineers, warriors, thieves and rangers as I can’t really see any connection there.
I’ve given this some thought, and honestly, I’m not sure where I stand.
Guardians utilise the school of Preservation which seems to be all about Faith (in gods, religions, yourself, your friends etc) and maybe not the Mists themselves.
Elementalists are Destruction and as the name suggests, wield the elements – I suppose the skills under the “Arcane” tab is closely related to the Mists, but the profession is almost entirely made up for air, earth, water and fire (which also seems to be a magic as old as Tyria itself) – we can argue that these basic elements make up all of Tyria and as such, are the best physical representation of the Mists themselves…
Mesmers… I don’t really know where I stand here.
Necromancers! This was my first choice, but then I realised that I was probably thinking too much of the Ritualist Razah rather than the Razah itself, so I came here This profession seems to be more about the power of blood and flesh than anything else, with a touch of the spiritual: spectral skills etc. Honestly, I don’t really see where the Mists play into this, unless we accept that life force = souls and spirits which reside in the Mists (and once again, fall back to the Ritualist… kitten .

I suppose you could think of him as a “meta” mesmer in the sense that mesmers generate illusions to appear as anything they choose, Razah does a similar thing when changing professions except that it’s an actual change not just an illusion. Really though I think the profession that best reflects his ability to utilize the powers of any other profession is the GW1 Dervish as they don’t seem to adhere to any one “school” of magic but instead have limited abilities of all of them.

Riot Inducer.8964:

I suppose you could think of him as a “meta” mesmer in the sense that mesmers generate illusions to appear as anything they choose, Razah does a similar thing when changing professions except that it’s an actual change not just an illusion. Really though I think the profession that best reflects his ability to utilize the powers of any other profession is the GW1 Dervish as they don’t seem to adhere to any one “school” of magic but instead have limited abilities of all of them.

Talking GW2 now, though

Mesmers (and elementalists to a smaller extent) can manipulate Ether, which is basically magical energy in its purest form.

I would go with all of them. I can’t see how one profession would win over another as he was capable of doing seeminly anything. He also should not be at all bound to one profession (imo) as that would be a limitation that he does not have. He encompasses all the professions

“I am matter…
I am antimatter…
I can see your past…
I can see your future…
I consume time…
and I will comsume you!” (Edit) -Not by Razah

Also you don’t consider Razah to be a person even after he tried so hard to fit in and find his own path? QQ

Either “all magic users” equally – as outside Tyria, magic wouldn’t be bound to the four schools like player professions, and in turn all professions – including ranger though maybe not engineer or warrior – utilize magic to manipulate things in some manner – or it would be “none of them” because, truth be told, the Mists are protomatter and that’s not manipulated by any single profession.

Knox.8462:

Mesmers (and elementalists to a smaller extent) can manipulate Ether, which is basically magical energy in its purest form.

Oh right, ether renewal and bolts, yes.

WonderfulCT.6278:

Also you don’t consider Razah to be a person even after he tried so hard to fit in and find his own path? QQ

What? Did I say that? If I did, I didn’t mean it

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Either “all magic users” equally – as outside Tyria, magic wouldn’t be bound to the four schools like player professions, and in turn all professions – including ranger though maybe not engineer or warrior – utilize magic to manipulate things in some manner – or it would be “none of them” because, truth be told, the Mists are protomatter and that’s not manipulated by any single profession.

I suspected as much, the latter half of your post, I mean. Back to the drawing board, I guess.

If you put the ritualist aside, I’m inclined to say that mesmerism is probably the most related to the Mists, since it deals with pure magical energy. All of the magical professions have some connection, though.

Bottomlining it, though, Konig’s assessment is accurate – magic in the Mists is not restricted by the Bloodstones – (although it is possible that the gods decided that splitting magic was a good idea in general and found a way to split it in the Mists as well), and having direct access to the protomatter of the Mists probably also allows for professions that aren’t available in Tyria. Our PCs are still restricted in profession because that’s what they’re used to and they probably haven’t been able to spend enough time in the Mists to learn the skills that are possible in the Mists but not in Tyria – what works in Tyria still works in the Mists, but the reverse is not necessarily true.

Not sure if it’s already understood, but want to make clear that Razah is just the name of the individual, not the name of that sort of creature or anything.

Also, I think that you could play a creature from the Mists as any profession. It’s not like he has to have some affinity for Mists-magic (which may not even be a thing, so far as I know).

Ritualist was, kinda – it had strong elements of calling spirits that had gone to the Mists as well as making more direct use of energy conjured from the Mists to Tyria.

Primal Zed.9714:

Not sure if it’s already understood, but want to make clear that Razah is just the name of the individual, not the name of that sort of creature or anything.

Also, I think that you could play a creature from the Mists as any profession. It’s not like he has to have some affinity for Mists-magic (which may not even be a thing, so far as I know).

I actually didn’t know that^^ I thought ‘Razah’ was both his name and the name of what he was. The more you know, eh?

Hm… I see what you mean.

Technically, lore-wise, Razah would be considered a demon. He’s just unlike most demons in many aspects.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Technically, lore-wise, Razah would be considered a demon. He’s just unlike most demons in many aspects.

As I understand it, the difference between Razah and a demon is the difference between a terrorist and a freedom fighter.

Kinda, but terrorists and freedom fighters are all still human, just like Razah and other demons are still demons.

By Guild Wars’ definition, a “demon” simply refers to a creature born directly by the Mists’ protomatter. 99% of the time they are rather anarchistic and chaos-loving creatures of darkness and malice.

@Mikhail – I think you did a pretty good job of summing it up. Ritualists get their power from spirits that grant it to them, the question is where they get it. It would seem that they obtain their power from the mists themselves and Razah would get his power in a similar fashion. Since there are no longer ritualists in GW2 I see two options:
Necromancer – They use life energy which is sort of similar to gaining power from spirits like you said.
Elementalist – They are the only profession capable of using raw magic (Magic not bound to the bloodstones or granted by other beings).

Magic itself isn’t really clearly defined in the Guild Wars universe though and there isn’t really a profession that represents Razah well in GW2.

Elementalists still use magic bound to the bloodstones (Destruction).

Narcemus.1348:

Elementalists still use magic bound to the bloodstones (Destruction).

Generally, but they aren’t restricted to it like the other professions. They existed before Abaddon gave the ability to use bloodstone magic.

The only profession that existed before the giving of magic was Ritualism.

Narcemus.1348:

The only profession that existed before the giving of magic was Ritualism.

There was a piece of lore that stated human mages existed before but were only elementalists, I shall attempt to find the source.

EDIT: It’s stated here http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Magic I’m not sure where the wiki writer got it from though.

“References and citations needed and until provided, certain elements of this article may be incorrect. "

Many references in game state that much of this is incorrect. Lorewise before the Abaddon introduced magic back into the world, Ritualists were the only known magic users among humans (to my knowledge). It also states that the gods gave magic back to only their favored races, but everything that I have read states that Abaddon gave magic freely to everyone. Full Power, Full Availability. This lead to massive bloodshed, which crippled the humans who had many enemies.

I believe this wiki thread is why many players believe that the gods gave humans only magic, which is why they pushed out the charr, when in fact they pushed out the charr on their own before magic was released. It is just the charr’s belief that the gods blessed them (which is possible) and gave them an advantage, but it was not the selective release of magic to humans only.

^You know, it took me ages to get a template for that wikipage since some of the standard Wikipedia ones didn’t work. I believe much of the information there is derived from Thraln or Throln, whatever, the jotun in Hoelbrak who tells stories. The problem with this is that he himself discredits his information: he says that there’ve been gaps in the storyteller line, sometimes for generations, and who knows how much information and truth has been lost and perverted? And he comes from a proud people, stuck in the past, so there’s probably some bias there. The final nail is that is sounds very much like a story told to explain, but all it is is a story. Like why the Sun chases the Moon, etc.
The second is as Nacremus says: it directly contradicts previously established lore, regarding Abaddon and the release of magic.
As for Ritualists, as I understand it, they practised something that looked like magic long before Abaddon actually released it and then it became fused with magic, creating the profession in Factions.

Kyban.4031:

@Mikhail – I think you did a pretty good job of summing it up. Ritualists get their power from spirits that grant it to them, the question is where they get it. It would seem that they obtain their power from the mists themselves and Razah would get his power in a similar fashion. Since there are no longer ritualists in GW2 I see two options:
Necromancer – They use life energy which is sort of similar to gaining power from spirits like you said.
Elementalist – They are the only profession capable of using raw magic (Magic not bound to the bloodstones or granted by other beings).

Magic itself isn’t really clearly defined in the Guild Wars universe though and there isn’t really a profession that represents Razah well in GW2.

Yeah, it does seem to boil down to those two, doesn’t it? Hm.

Kyban.4031:

Narcemus.1348:

Elementalists still use magic bound to the bloodstones (Destruction).

Generally, but they aren’t restricted to it like the other professions. They existed before Abaddon gave the ability to use bloodstone magic.

All magic existed before Abaddon gave the ability to use bloodstone magic, technically. But it wasn’t known to humans (or at least in large numbers) and was generally very restricted. Only Ritualists had such.

Kyban.4031:

There was a piece of lore that stated human mages existed before but were only elementalists, I shall attempt to find the source.

EDIT: It’s stated here http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Magic I’m not sure where the wiki writer got it from though.

That bit was written – incorrectly might I add – based on Thruln the Lost’s dialogue (who’s not a credible source, and the editor of the article misunderstood that bit fully).

What Thruln ACTUALLY said was that jotun considers elementalist magic to be the most primitive of magic. But that’s subjective, first and foremost, and no timeframe – let alone before the gift of magic Abaddon gave – was given. That editor (Santax) has an issue with differentiating subjective truths that NPCs like Thruln give from the objective truth, and mix-matches them up, rather than the more appropriate form of showing all versions of the same story.

Hell, most of that article is downright wrong or unproven speculation – or the information is outright irrelevant (like most of the sylvari bit). If I were able to, I’d clean that up greatly – but thanks to constantly fixing wrong information that very editor put up, and getting reverted by him too, caused us both to get banned temporarily for “disrupting the wiki with edit wars.”

Mikhail.4961:

previously established lore, regarding Abaddon and the release of magic.

Well the original version of that has been redacted, more or less, with GW2. Instead of Abaddon giving magic and magic not existing beforehand, rather Abaddon released magic from the Bloodstones but too freely and gave unique forms of magic to different groups.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

What Thruln ACTUALLY said was that jotun considers elementalist magic to be the most primitive of magic. But that’s subjective, first and foremost, and no timeframe – let alone before the gift of magic Abaddon gave – was given. That editor (Santax) has an issue with differentiating subjective truths that NPCs like Thruln give from the objective truth, and mix-matches them up, rather than the more appropriate form of showing all versions of the same story.

Mikhail.4961:

previously established lore, regarding Abaddon and the release of magic.

Well the original version of that has been redacted, more or less, with GW2. Instead of Abaddon giving magic and magic not existing beforehand, rather Abaddon released magic from the Bloodstones but too freely and gave unique forms of magic to different groups.

Yes, the ‘history’ tab under the Magic article looks like a tug-o-war. I’ll take a look at it this weekend or even today and see if I can straighten things out. I’m not a GW-lorebuff, but I am good with wikis, and this article wouldn’t last a day on the Big Pedia.

Will need to dig for sources for that

The impression I’ve had is that there were humans with magic beforehand – the disciples of the gods recorded in the various Scriptures, for instance. Abaddon’s actions made it more powerful and widespread, but there was some magic around as well (asura records point to the same).