Guild Wars 2

Something has been nagging me, thinking about the Elder Dragons – specifically Zhaitan. Many times they are described as part of Tyria and the Pale Tree describes them as older than time itself.

And then we have Trahearne’s peculiar statement that his bone minions are immune to Zhaitan’s corruption since they never lived. Personally I take this as them just being constructs made of flesh and bones as opposed to raising the dead.
Then we have Risen Abominations which are Risen put together again which seems to make them an exception to the construct idea since they were corrupted corpses to begin with.

However, while Zhaitan can corrupt objects, he is the only Elder Dragon to my knowledge that cannot create minions out of things that haven’t been alive at all.

That all left me wondering:

1) What the kitten are Tequatl and co.?
They don’t seem to be put together á la Abominations. Doesn’t that suggest the possibility that they were live dragons/dragon corpses turned Risen at some point?

2) Unless the whole thing about Elder dragons being part of Tyria is about the concept of Elder Dragons rather than our current set of them, doesn’t that mean Zhaitan had no minions to use before there was life on Tyria?

2.5) Wouldn’t that make him automatically the weakest Elder dragon as not only can you prevent being corrupted by uhm …not…dying… but he completely relies on life to compete with the other EDs for magic?

Mainly I am curious about Tequatl, Blight gast and the other look-alike dragon champs…

1. I think they are just normal dragons, made undead. I vaguely read that there are dragons, in some other content. Not sure though.

2. If there was no life on Tyria, then why need minions? He would probably just sit around and eat magic with not a care, and as his corruption spread he would eat more and more. Until he physically moved around, within his own spot. Also, keep on mind, he has wraiths, and spectral things, he can probably just manifest his corruption into a being and have it grab stuff. Things could probably just drop off him and go to work, like when he raises the little heads on the final battle.

2.5. Not dying to a horde of undead is tricky, but at the same time, his corruption can raise the dead, so graveyards just burst open, and should he or a minion, or even an artifact be strong and close enough, you can go straight from living to corrupted. In that case, you immediately take a rotten form and serve. Also ties into answer 2.

I still think Risens’ mind wasn’t corrupted, they are undead overall, part of Zhaitan’s will/power took them over and used their memory/skills.

Zhaitan indeed got lucky that there were a whole nations’ corpse to let him use since its awakening. Plus the tsunami killed a lot of ships.

Jake.1430:

1. I think they are just normal dragons, made undead. I vaguely read that there are dragons, in some other content. Not sure though.

Yes Cantha had a lot of dragons (1, 2, 3 for example). There were also undead dragons before Zhaitan.

ElysianEternity.6215:

And then we have Trahearne’s peculiar statement that his bone minions are immune to Zhaitan’s corruption since they never lived.

I always found this rather weird, to be honest.

I think it falls under the category of “Elder Dragons have preferences for what they corrupt” – so it isn’t that Zhaitan can’t corrupt Trahearne’s minions, but that Zhaitan chooses not to. Similar to how Primordus can corrupt living beings, but apparently chooses not to.

ElysianEternity.6215:

1) What the kitten are Tequatl and co.?
They don’t seem to be put together á la Abominations. Doesn’t that suggest the possibility that they were live dragons/dragon corpses turned Risen at some point?

2) Unless the whole thing about Elder dragons being part of Tyria is about the concept of Elder Dragons rather than our current set of them, doesn’t that mean Zhaitan had no minions to use before there was life on Tyria?

2.5) Wouldn’t that make him automatically the weakest Elder dragon as not only can you prevent being corrupted by uhm …not…dying… but he completely relies on life to compete with the other EDs for magic?

1) A dragon race is possible, but it’s also possible that they are indeed created in a similar manner to abominations.

2) Given recent lore, I think the mention of Elder Dragons being part of Tyria is related to The All/Antikytheria, in which we have six spheres of magic/bodies of power that are tied to the balance of the world. Theoretically, according to Ogden, Glint could have become an Elder Dragon – so it’s possible that Tequatl is/was on his way to such too.

I, personally, don’t think the Elder Dragons were what’s always been there, but rather that they have been around for so long now that people think they have been.

Though it’s possible that Zhaitan did corrupt non-once-living things in the ancient past, however I don’t think that Zhaitan precedes all other life on the world.

2.5) Yes and no. Elder Dragon strength seems to rely on how much magic they’ve consumed – as Ogden puts it “time is your enemy when fighting Elder Dragons” because they’re always consuming magic while awake. Going off of Gorr’s experiments, dragon minions are also capable of consuming magic in the world (not just specialized minions like the Mouth of Zhaitan), but at the same time they use the Elder Dragons’ magic. So more minions = less magic for the Elder Dragon, but also = more magic the Elder Dragon can reach.

So it’s a multi-variable equation to determine how strong each Elder Dragon is.

• How much magic has the Elder Dragon consumed since its awakening? More magic means more personal strength.
• How many minions does it have? More minions means less personal strength.
• How much magic does the dragon minions have access to (read: how widespread are they into magical locations)? Smaller spread means less personal strength, but wide spread in non-magical locations can also mean less personal strength (no magic for them to consume).

Zhaitan and Kralkatorrik seem to have the smallest territories of all the Elder Dragons – even Mordremoth – but Zhaitan woke up on “Hello Buffet Magicland” aka Arah, the Artesian Waters, and simply all around Orr. He also woke with a huge army, spreading out his magic, and hadn’t even consumed/corrupted all magic in Orr by the time we invaded.

Without minions, he would have had all that Orrian magic to himself, and could have potentially moved about – such as to the Ring of Fire bloodstone. Which would have made him stronger.

Jake.1430:

1. I think they are just normal dragons, made undead. I vaguely read that there are dragons, in some other content. Not sure though.

2. If there was no life on Tyria, then why need minions? He would probably just sit around and eat magic with not a care, and as his corruption spread he would eat more and more. Until he physically moved around, within his own spot. Also, keep on mind, he has wraiths, and spectral things, he can probably just manifest his corruption into a being and have it grab stuff. Things could probably just drop off him and go to work, like when he raises the little heads on the final battle.

2.5. Not dying to a horde of undead is tricky, but at the same time, his corruption can raise the dead, so graveyards just burst open, and should he or a minion, or even an artifact be strong and close enough, you can go straight from living to corrupted. In that case, you immediately take a rotten form and serve. Also ties into answer 2.

1. You think of Saltspray Dragons from Cantha. But there are hints of a native Tyrian dragon race that’s more European – rather than a Chinese dragon style like Saltspray Dragons.

2. Why need minions? The other Elder Dragons would be making minions, no doubt. Which puts Zhaitan at a disadvantage should they ever fight.

Wraiths appear to be corrupted souls, however. Or partial-bodies.

Slowpokeking.8720:

I still think Risens’ mind wasn’t corrupted, they are undead overall, part of Zhaitan’s will/power took them over and used their memory/skills.

“Zhaitan’s will/power took them over” means that the Risen’s minds were corrupted…

Konig Des Todes.2086:

“Zhaitan’s will/power took them over” means that the Risen’s minds were corrupted…

Do they even have mind since they are actually corpses? Many Risen are just “mindless”, they don’t possess intelligence and were just driven by Zhaitan’s will.

This holds true for all dragon minions – the more powerful a minion is, the more of a mind they have. Dragon champions are, thus, the strongest and the smartest.

The most numerous, the grunts such as Risen Thrall and Risen Brute, are effectively mindless (despite their shouts) with a single tactic to use: “Swarm them!” (or more accurately, kill all non-risen in sight, usually with pure numbers).

Slowpokeking.8720:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

“Zhaitan’s will/power took them over” means that the Risen’s minds were corrupted…

Do they even have mind since they are actually corpses? Many Risen are just “mindless”, they don’t possess intelligence and were just driven by Zhaitan’s will.

Somewhere in asura story mode it’s said something about Zhaitan’s will in risen, which means that mob was stronger having more Dragon’s will, like he had corrupted body, not mind, by more or less magic power ?

Ps.
It was the part where you tested some new weapon

WannaFeel.7082:

Somewhere in asura story mode it’s said something about Zhaitan’s will in risen, which means that mob was stronger having more Dragon’s will, like he had corrupted body, not mind, by more or less magic power ?

Ps.
It was the part where you tested some new weapon

I guess you are talking about Magic Sucks from the Order of Whispers storyline.

Professor Gorr: I’m developing a weapon based on my theory of draconic enchanto-consumption. Essentially, it removes the magic from a person or object, poisons it, and then transfers it back.
Professor Gorr: Hypothetically, the Vacuumagic Polarizer will reverse the magical essence of Zhaitan’s tangible will within the Risen, and therefore, destroy them.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

This holds true for all dragon minions – the more powerful a minion is, the more of a mind they have. Dragon champions are, thus, the strongest and the smartest.

The most numerous, the grunts such as Risen Thrall and Risen Brute, are effectively mindless (despite their shouts) with a single tactic to use: “Swarm them!” (or more accurately, kill all non-risen in sight, usually with pure numbers).

(In further developing the above…)

Basically, what seems to happen is that the dragon drains magic from the minion, and then some of it flows back to keep the minion animate. Most foot soldiers only receive the bare minimum in return to serve their function, leaving them essentially as drones – intelligence in Tyria is linked to magic in some manner that has yet to be fully explained. More powerful minions such as lieutenants and champions receive a higher investment in magic, and are more intelligent as a result.

(Note that there doesn’t seem to be any indication that something can be made more intelligent simply by pumping it full of magic – just that draining something of enough magic can cause it to lose its intelligence.)