Guild Wars 2

Hello! There are several lore questions that I’ve been thinking about/debating over the past couple weeks, and I thought I’d take it to you all (and possibly a lore guru at the Anet offices, if they see this). Mainly, I was considering the state of the human kingdoms and the concept of ‘national identity’, and how it all relates to Lion’s Arch.

1. How do humans view themselves in the context of race/queen/country? At this point, the only functional truly human nation in mainland Tyria is Kryta, regardless of what the holdouts in Ebonhawke might think (especially considering that they would not survive without agricultural support through the asura gates). So aside from the ultra-nationalist Ascalonians, how do humans view themselves? Do they view themselves as Krytans first? Or is it by village? Or even just by race? If there were ever a fantasy world where I could see humanity seeing itself as one unit, regardless of race or regionality, it is in Tyria.

In addition to this, is there a distinct Krytan national and cultural identity we can identify? What are the cultural touchstones of Krytan identity? What are the idealized ‘traits’ of a Krytan man or woman? How does that compare to an Ascalonian? Are there stereotypes about Krytans/Orrians/Ascalonians/Istani refugees/ Canthan refugees/ Vabbian refugees/ Kournan refugees?

How does the greater Tyrian regionalism work with this? If there is a distinct Krytan identity, is there an Elonian Krytan identity that has developed since many Elonians fled to Kryta? Or are all the previous refugees counted as Krytans now – especially with the rise of the Elder Dragons?

2. Where does Lion’s Arch fit into all this (before the destruction)? Do the human ‘Archers’ have a distinct culture of their own, or do they count themselves as vaguely Krytan? If they do count themselves as Archers first, what does that mean? What is the Lion’s Arch national identity – what are its fundamental moral values, cultural heroes, etc? I would guess that they would revolve around openness, urbanized ‘street smarts’, multiculturalism, and general individualistic attitude – but how is that different from the main Krytan culture? Are Ascalonians, Elonians, or Canthans viewed differently in Lion’s Arch versus Divinity’s Reach, and if so how?

Perhaps most importantly – before the Fall of Lion’s Arch, was there a distinct ‘national’ versus ‘cultural’ identity in Lion’s Arch? Or was it more city-economy based identity? Basically, is there the concept of Lion’s Arch as a state/nation with associated sovereignty? Or do the populace of the city still simply view themselves as a city looking out for its trade opportunities in the world?

Post-Fall, how does this all play out? My leading theory is that based on the lack of assistance from other groups and national bodies during the invasion, the national identity of Lion’s Arch will cohere and crystallize – if it hadn’t already. This event would be the equivalent of 9/11… IF that event destroyed all of New York. Will Archers become a more cohesive body/culture through this shared cultural experience?

3. Is there any remnant of Orrian identity? If there are examples of Orrian characters in-game currently, other than ghosts, I believe I’ve missed them. The Orrians were a religious and magically-inclined people – does that mean that any remains of them are focused around certain professions or regions? Do other human groups blame the Orrians for much of the ill that has befallen on humanity?

Those were the main questions/topics that I had. This is all stuff that is hinted at in the game in some form or another, I feel – but much of it is not explicit or left entirely up to guesswork. What do you guys and gals think? What is the state of national identity and cultural cohesion in what’s left of humanity and Lion’s Arch?

Oranos.3408:

2. Where does Lion’s Arch fit into all this (before the destruction)? Do the human ‘Archers’ have a distinct culture of their own, or do they count themselves as vaguely Krytan? If they do count themselves as Archers first, what does that mean? What is the Lion’s Arch national identity – what are its fundamental moral values, cultural heroes, etc? I would guess that they would revolve around openness, urbanized ‘street smarts’, multiculturalism, and general individualistic attitude – but how is that different from the main Krytan culture? Are Ascalonians, Elonians, or Canthans viewed differently in Lion’s Arch versus Divinity’s Reach, and if so how?

Perhaps most importantly – before the Fall of Lion’s Arch, was there a distinct ‘national’ versus ‘cultural’ identity in Lion’s Arch? Or was it more city-economy based identity? Basically, is there the concept of Lion’s Arch as a state/nation with associated sovereignty? Or do the populace of the city still simply view themselves as a city looking out for its trade opportunities in the world?

Post-Fall, how does this all play out? My leading theory is that based on the lack of assistance from other groups and national bodies during the invasion, the national identity of Lion’s Arch will cohere and crystallize – if it hadn’t already. This event would be the equivalent of 9/11… IF that event destroyed all of New York. Will Archers become a more cohesive body/culture through this shared cultural experience?

I’ll answer one thing real qucik because I’m short on time at the moment:

Lion’s Arch was the capital of Kryta in Guild Wars 1, Divinity’s Reach didn’t exist back then. So ’Archer’s’ are not vaguely Krytan, they are the Krytans. If you mean the second time Lion’s Arch was destroyed (which is right now) then I’d say it depends where the human in question origanated from; being it offspring from pirates, Krytans, Elonians or Canthans.

All in all, Lion’s Arch has been destroyed or abandoned upwards of three times now. Lion’s Arch from Guild Wars 1 is in no way equal to Guild Wars 2’s Lion’s Arch. The city was absolutely demolished during the Rise of Zhaitan – and essentially all the Krytan-ness I assumed followed the throne to Divinity’s Reach or scattered to the countryside. As far as I’m aware, the city was only rebuilt by the Zaishen and Pirates. I also assume that these pirates were mostly Krytan… but according to Sea of Sorrows (the book) the city wasn’t REALLY founded again properly until a conglomerate of multi-racial pirate groups came and did it. So, no, I wouldn’t say Guild Wars 2’s Lion’s Arch seems like ‘The Krytans’ to me. But I’m mostly curious about the humans… it has always seemed that the humans living in Lion’s Arch in Guild Wars 2 were from far flung areas, and not at all respectable Krytans.

When typing my response I thought you meant the original Lion’s Arch. I think the GW2 version of LA can be compared a bit to the USA, the USA was once for many people a place to start all over again. A country of chances, to live ‘the American Dream’. I think this goes for humans (and other races) in GW2 with LA. Humans from all over Tyria (world) settled in LA to be free from Kryta and build a new life.

1. By and large, most humans consider themselves to be Krytan. Those descended from the Canthan and Elonian refugees seem to have accepted the Krytan nationality, though they do work hard to keep their distinct cultures more or less intact. Those of ascalonian descent are a mixed back- the Ebonhawkers consider themselves to be 100% of Ascalonian nationality, and not Krytan whatsoever. The current residents of the original Ascalonian settlement in Gendarran also seem to share this view, despite being within Kryta’s borders and under Kryta’s protection. The populace of Rurikton seem to be a more mixed bag, with those who consider themselves Ascalonian and those who consider themselves Krytan. They do still work towards preserving the Ascalonian culture, however.

The humans definitely identify by nation, not by village or by race.

As a quick note, too, Ebonhawke is not reliant on the asura gate for food. They have their own farms, and they have been hinted to have survived several periods of the gate being all but defunct.

In to the culture bit- the traits Krytan culture seems to idealize are perseverance and faith in the face of any odds. Things like dignity, honor, and history also seem to have more of a place in Krytan culture than in other Tyrian civilizations. The keystones of modern Ascalonian culture are heritage and pride. They make a big deal about lineage, the feats of their ancestors, and staying true to what their forefathers believed in and fought for. They’re also grimmer, especially those in Ebonhawke, and are sometimes put off by the pageantry Krytans tend to embrace. On the darker side, Ascalonian culture also seems to at least tolerate racism, both against the charr and other races. Elonian, and even more so Canthan, culture on this continent has become more a matter of style than personality, but it is worth noting their somewhat distinct approaches to religion- Elonians give more reverence to Kormir than the other human cultures, presumably on account of her once being a defender of Elona, and the Canthans have traditionally revered their ancestors, though it is unclear to what extent that is held to in these days. There seem to be no vestiges of Luxon, Kurzick, or Orrian culture among modern humans, and the three provinces of Elona have blurred together into one among the refugees.

With the partial exception of the Ascalonians, the descendents of immigrant refugees seem to have integrated their nationality with their Krytan hosts.

2. Lion’s Arch humans wouldn’t necessarily think of themselves as humans at all- the place is basically a melting pot of the cast-offs of a dozen civilizations, and the reasons for moving to Lion’s Arch are usually either to get a fresh start or to join in the multiculturalism it represents. Culturally, humans moving there will probably hold on to that which they came from, which is usually Krytan, but it seems to be more a personal matter than one partaken in by neighborhoods or districts as a whole. There is definitely an Archling nationality, one tied closely to their economy but nonetheless fiercely defended, but culturally it’s a lot more loose- likely any culture that a citizen brought to the city with them, but modified by the overarching themes of acceptance and cooperation. What changes, if any, Scarlet’s attack will effect remains to be seen.

3. If there is, they wouldn’t be open about it. At the time of the Cataclysm, there were probably very few people outside of Orr who considered themselves part of the nationality- after all, they would have to have been living in a kingdom that Orr had been at war with for decades. After the Cataclysm, any Orrian survivors were A.) few and widely scattered, and B.) not going public with their culture, so as not to be associated with Orr, and later Zhaitan. Given how much time has passed, I think it safe so say that Orrian culture is extinct, or at best expressed privately and secretly behind a few closed doors, and likely heavily distorted.

There is one living character who claims Orrian heritage, a Priory explorer in Malchor’s Leap, but it’s not a cultural thing- she only knows she’s descended from an Orrian because her mother happened to stumble across the fact while doing genealogical research.

This is something that was bothering me as well but in a “larger” scale. Do Tyria have nations? Where are the borders of this nations? Not only humans but the other races too.
Sylvari are 25 years old, so do they have a nation and where are the borders? Did they occupy someone else territory?
Why me, as an Ausra born and raised in Rata Sum, had been called to vote for a council in Lion’s Arch? I don’t live there, I just traded there.

Underdark.3726:

This is something that was bothering me as well but in a “larger” scale. Do Tyria have nations? Where are the borders of this nations? Not only humans but the other races too.
Sylvari are 25 years old, so do they have a nation and where are the borders? Did they occupy someone else territory?
Why me, as an Ausra born and raised in Rata Sum, had been called to vote for a council in Lion’s Arch? I don’t live there, I just traded there.

Tyria has nations, but that doesn’t mean that they have definitive borders. That only matters when there’s another nation disputing the territory, and none of the proper nations are close enough to have that conflict. Sylvari, asura, and norn wouldn’t even really have an idea of territory- as long as they can keep on doing whatever it is sylvari, asura, and norn happen to so, they could care less what government claims the land. Also, keep in mind that there are wide swathes of territory unclaimed by anyone- that is what the vicinity of the Pale Tree was when sylvari started popping out.

As for the vote- you weren’t being called to participate in a Lion’s Arch election. Think of it rather as being called to support your old ally Ellen Kiel in her bid for political office, with the option of turning on her and supporting her rival instead.

thanks for the clarification.

ps. if we were only supporting that means that the council could have choose Evon in the end regardless of the results. Maybe now the Evon supporters can start complainig to them and not on forums… :P