Guild Wars 2

Does it not bother anyone else that Anet resolves its plot the same way each GW game for the major antagonists?
1) What happens each game there is this enemy something bad happens to drive hero to do something.
2) Go find out who the bad guy is and/or how to beat’em up.
3) Get means to win
4) Go behind enemy lines and exploit weaknesses researched in earlier parts.

Post would be huge if i summarized each games plot. The above is what the plot boils down to for the most part every single GW game. Especially the part about going behind enemy line with your elite crew of heroes to eliminate the antagonists. GW plot always solved the same way.

I never understood what the elder dragon Zaitan did to the non sylvari hero. I mean really now what did he do?
It was nothing actually the bandits and centaurs did more then Zaitan and I did not see the hero doing genocide on them. Really Zaitan did nothing to us and yet we went and killed him.
I get Mordremoth he did used Scarlet to attack us so that is something but Zaitan is innocent towards non sylvari heroes.

Vlad.1739:

1) What happens each game there is this enemy something bad happens to drive hero to do something.
2) Go find out who the bad guy is and/or how to beat’em up.
3) Get means to win
4) Go behind enemy lines and exploit weaknesses researched in earlier parts.

Post would be huge if i summarized each games plot. The above is what the plot boils down to for the most part every single GW game. Especially the part about going behind enemy line with your elite crew of heroes to eliminate the antagonists. GW plot always solved the same way.

You also just basically described a majority of all stories that use the Hero’s Journey, especially ones where the hero have to go against a superior force. The hero can’t confront the villain’s forces head on, so they have to either sneak behind enemy lines or call them out for single combat to exploit a weakness or use some sort of special move/knowledge/device/whatever.

For example: Star Wars.

1. Luke’s aunt and uncle getting killed by storm troopers.
2. Learn about the Jedi from Obi-Wan and confronting Vader in the Death Star.
3. Training with Yoda in the ways of the Jedi.
4. Surrendering to Vader and being brought before the Emperor (behind enemy lines), defeating Vader, and calling out for his “Father” while being tortured (exploit weakness), thus leading to Vader killing the Emperor by throwing down a shaft.

Vlad.1739:

Does it not bother anyone else that Anet resolves its plot the same way each GW game for the major antagonists?
1) What happens each game there is this enemy something bad happens to drive hero to do something.
2) Go find out who the bad guy is and/or how to beat’em up.
3) Get means to win
4) Go behind enemy lines and exploit weaknesses researched in earlier parts.

Post would be huge if i summarized each games plot. The above is what the plot boils down to for the most part every single GW game. Especially the part about going behind enemy line with your elite crew of heroes to eliminate the antagonists. GW plot always solved the same way.

When you boil a plot down that much, then that’s pretty much every heroic story out there.

So no, that doesn’t bother me.

When you don’t boil it down to the base principles, then the build up and fight against Zhaitan isn’t akin to the one against Mordremoth. Simplifying the Zhaitan plot:

• You build up your own status among your own people.
• Get recruited by a multi-racial order due to your prowess and capabilities, allowing you to further build your status people, helping lesser races and experiencing the threat of the Elder Dragons in general along the way.
• Repel a massive attack at the cost of a friend.
• Build the forces of the Pact so that it can take the fight to Zhaitan.
• Take the fight to Zhaitan, slowly weakening him along the way.
• Kill Zhaitan.

The plot of Mordremoth (going from Season 1 as imo that is the true beginning):

• Help the major races in repelling major assaults on them, seeing new heroes rise up to fill the void you had left when you joined the Orders, and helping them as you had mentors to help you.
• Finding out the mastermind of of said assaults and attempting, but failing, to counter said mastermind.
• Investigate what said mastermind put into motion. Upon revelation build the forces of the Pact so that it can take the fight to Mordremoth.
• Get side-tracked by a vision and investigate its meaning and importance, then seek out the subject of the vision.
• Return to find out that the Pact has been decimated and remaining mentor figures had been captured. Head out to recover the Pact and rescue said mentor figures, half-failing to do so.
• Get side-tracked again by hopeful revelation that turns out null.
• Take the fight to Mordremoth, having a Dues Ex Machina revelation along the way.
• Kill Mordremoth.

Overall, when heavily simplified, the plots are not that similar.

Yes, you’re still fighting a big massive dragon. Yes, you build up forces before fighting that big massive dragon, but the method to fight the big massive dragon differs, and there’s this side-plot that Zhaitan didn’t have which is the egg. Even if you take out the egg and McGuffin Caithe (yes, Caithe is the McGuffin in this storyline as her taking of the egg was done solely to lengthen the length of S2, give players the sylvari reveal, and keep the PC away from the Pact Fleet launch – when the explanation came for her reason it was “I dunno… I just did it.”), the plot would still differ. And it differs more if you take out S1.

adormtil.1605:

I never understood what the elder dragon Zaitan did to the non sylvari hero. I mean really now what did he do?
It was nothing actually the bandits and centaurs did more then Zaitan and I did not see the hero doing genocide on them. Really Zaitan did nothing to us and yet we went and killed him.

1. Threaten you, your friend, or your leader (sylvari + hylek, charr + hylek, human respectively).
2. Killed your friend (mentor).
3. Be a threat to all known civilization.
4. Launch a war.

Typically those are enough for a hero of good virtue to go out to kill a big bad.

What friend what hylek? What story did I played?

TLDR: I only have problem with how the plot ends with going behind enemy lines every single game to win with no deviation. Tired of being Tyria’s Commando Squad.

Zhaitan seems to be a slight exception like Prophacies. GW1 plots were the same with Shiro, Abaddon and great destroyer. Prophecies was more complex bigger plot but also included the going behind enemy lines plot

You are right in that it follows typical plot of heroic quest. I think Anet needs to deviate from this. Especially with the part about going behind enemy lines with your crew. Every single GW game did that. Why do we always need to do the go behind enemy lines. For example, why not have a plot where we just have no idea how to win and are forced to fight the foe head on. No going behind enemy lines we kill the minions at great loss and we brute force the antagonist shear grit. Or another example allow/force said antagonist to come out and fight due to reasons. They surely can vary the final part of the formula. They do vary the plot in between the first 3 steps.

adormtil.1605:

What friend what hylek? What story did I played?

Hylek racial sympathy story plot. It’s the only one where you encounter risen during the racial sympathies.

Friend with charr = Howl, whom was your warband mate (unfortunately given that Anet decided to wipe out your warband in the tutorial you never actually got to talk to him outside 3 sentences).

Vlad.1739:

TLDR: I only have problem with how the plot ends with going behind enemy lines every single game to win with no deviation. Tired of being Tyria’s Commando Squad.

Zhaitan seems to be a slight exception like Prophacies. GW1 plots were the same with Shiro, Abaddon and great destroyer. Prophecies was more complex bigger plot but also included the going behind enemy lines plot

You are right in that it follows typical plot of heroic quest. I think Anet needs to deviate from this. Especially with the part about going behind enemy lines with your crew. Every single GW game did that. Why do we always need to do the go behind enemy lines. For example, why not have a plot where we just have no idea how to win and are forced to fight the foe head on. No going behind enemy lines we kill the minions at great loss and we brute force the antagonist shear grit. Or another example allow/force said antagonist to come out and fight due to reasons. They surely can vary the final part of the formula. They do vary the plot in between the first 3 steps.

Pardon, but when has evil army leaders ever not been protected by his army?

And… fighting the army head on is what Factions and Zhaitan plot did. It’s what Mordremoth plot did too. Yet you called it ‘going behind enemy lines’.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

adormtil.1605:

What friend what hylek? What story did I played?

Hylek racial sympathy story plot. It’s the only one where you encounter risen during the racial sympathies.

Friend with charr = Howl, whom was your warband mate (unfortunately given that Anet decided to wipe out your warband in the tutorial you never actually got to talk to him outside 3 sentences).

Vlad.1739:

TLDR: I only have problem with how the plot ends with going behind enemy lines every single game to win with no deviation. Tired of being Tyria’s Commando Squad.

Zhaitan seems to be a slight exception like Prophacies. GW1 plots were the same with Shiro, Abaddon and great destroyer. Prophecies was more complex bigger plot but also included the going behind enemy lines plot

You are right in that it follows typical plot of heroic quest. I think Anet needs to deviate from this. Especially with the part about going behind enemy lines with your crew. Every single GW game did that. Why do we always need to do the go behind enemy lines. For example, why not have a plot where we just have no idea how to win and are forced to fight the foe head on. No going behind enemy lines we kill the minions at great loss and we brute force the antagonist shear grit. Or another example allow/force said antagonist to come out and fight due to reasons. They surely can vary the final part of the formula. They do vary the plot in between the first 3 steps.

Pardon, but when has evil army leaders ever not been protected by his army?

And… fighting the army head on is what Factions and Zhaitan plot did. It’s what Mordremoth plot did too. Yet you called it ‘going behind enemy lines’.

You also meet risen in the Quaagan sympathy plotline, if I am not mistaken.

Jaken.6801:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

adormtil.1605:

What friend what hylek? What story did I played?

Hylek racial sympathy story plot. It’s the only one where you encounter risen during the racial sympathies.

Friend with charr = Howl, whom was your warband mate (unfortunately given that Anet decided to wipe out your warband in the tutorial you never actually got to talk to him outside 3 sentences).

Vlad.1739:

TLDR: I only have problem with how the plot ends with going behind enemy lines every single game to win with no deviation. Tired of being Tyria’s Commando Squad.

Zhaitan seems to be a slight exception like Prophacies. GW1 plots were the same with Shiro, Abaddon and great destroyer. Prophecies was more complex bigger plot but also included the going behind enemy lines plot

You are right in that it follows typical plot of heroic quest. I think Anet needs to deviate from this. Especially with the part about going behind enemy lines with your crew. Every single GW game did that. Why do we always need to do the go behind enemy lines. For example, why not have a plot where we just have no idea how to win and are forced to fight the foe head on. No going behind enemy lines we kill the minions at great loss and we brute force the antagonist shear grit. Or another example allow/force said antagonist to come out and fight due to reasons. They surely can vary the final part of the formula. They do vary the plot in between the first 3 steps.

Pardon, but when has evil army leaders ever not been protected by his army?

And… fighting the army head on is what Factions and Zhaitan plot did. It’s what Mordremoth plot did too. Yet you called it ‘going behind enemy lines’.

You also meet risen in the Quaagan sympathy plotline, if I am not mistaken.

What about the ogres?

You face Branded in the ogre plot line.

BuddhaKeks.4857:

You face Branded in the ogre plot line.

Well that is my point that was another elder dragon that hurt our friends not a Zaitan. What reason did we had then to go against Zaitan?
We should have went against the elder dragon with a very complex name.

I hope I’m not stepping over boundaries, when I assert you may have not understood the central theme of the personal storyline. It’s about all races coming together to defeat a common foe. If you split it up and everyone goes against the dragon that did the most damage to his people or even himself personally we would still be a the beginning, with all dragons active and a lot of people dead on the ground.
Tyria had to unite to defeat just one dragon. That dragon happened to be Zhaitan since he was the most aggressive at the time (he attacked Claw Island and attemtped the same with Lion’s Arch). It was a now or never situation. Either attack Zhaitan on his own turf with a newly formed multi-national army or lose Lion’s Arch to him.

Jaken.6801:

You also meet risen in the Quaagan sympathy plotline, if I am not mistaken.

You’re mistaken. That’s icebrood in that storyline.

Ogre= branded
Grawl and quaggan = icebrood
hylek = risen
skritt = destroyer

adormtil.1605:

BuddhaKeks.4857:

You face Branded in the ogre plot line.

Well that is my point that was another elder dragon that hurt our friends not a Zaitan. What reason did we had then to go against Zaitan?
We should have went against the elder dragon with a very complex name.

Zhaitan attacked Claw Island and killed your mentor – who by that point was a good friend to the PC (ability to show this questionable).

And if you’re charr, human, or sylvari you had even more dealings (Rissa/Howl, Kellach, Mazdak respectively), and if you went to help the hylek even more.

adormtil.1605:

I never understood what the elder dragon Zaitan did to the non sylvari hero. I mean really now what did he do?
It was nothing actually the bandits and centaurs did more then Zaitan and I did not see the hero doing genocide on them. Really Zaitan did nothing to us and yet we went and killed him.
I get Mordremoth he did used Scarlet to attack us so that is something but Zaitan is innocent towards non sylvari heroes.

Um…

A(Charr): They find out their warband leader had a necklace on him from a necromancer serving Zhaitan (or simply using Zhaitan’s corruption), spreading Risen all over.
B(Norn): This case, it’s more Jormag, so eh.
C(Asura): Haven’t actually finished all of the early Asura ones, so I can’t say for them personally.
D(Human): Well, let’s see. Zhaitan destroyed several major ports early on when he rose up. Oh, and there is the whole “Join an order” arc which deals with you putting down an increasing number of risen within Kryta, leading up to the corrupted Seraph literally trying to KILL THE QUEEN, a Risen force following behind him.

Oh, then we have the entire LA/Claw Island bit. I think the Risen show up in the Hylek arc. I know it’s icebrood for Quaggan and Grawl, destroyers for Skritt, and branded for Ogre.

To the OP, that’s basically the rough outline of almost every “hero’s journey” as others have said.

Vlad.1739:

Does it not bother anyone else that Anet resolves its plot the same way each GW game for the major antagonists?
1) What happens each game there is this enemy something bad happens to drive hero to do something.
2) Go find out who the bad guy is and/or how to beat’em up.
3) Get means to win
4) Go behind enemy lines and exploit weaknesses researched in earlier parts.

1) Sauron begins hunting The One Ring.
2) Go to Rivendell to discover that the One Ring could be destroyed in Mt Doom..
3) Forge a fellowship to transport the ring there.
4) Sneak into Mordor, behind enemy lines to exploit the weakness discovered in earlier parts…

1) Voldemort returns, threatening both the wizarding and muggle worlds..
2) Heroes discover that Voldemort sealed his soul into horcruxes..
3) Find and destroy the horcruxes.
4) Allow yourself to seem dead so you can get behind enemy defences and finally exploit the last weakness defeating Voldemort.

What you described is pretty much the formula for ANY epic type fantasy arc that exists by default of the nature of story telling. You might as well complain the Anet tells a story at all.

You also just basically described a majority of all stories that use the Hero’s Journey, especially ones where the hero have to go against a superior force. The hero can’t confront the villain’s forces head on, so they have to either sneak behind enemy lines or call them out for single combat to exploit a weakness or use some sort of special move/knowledge/device/whatever.

I hadn’t read the whole thread before posting. Seems you beat me well and truly to it.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

adormtil.1605:

BuddhaKeks.4857:

You face Branded in the ogre plot line.

Well that is my point that was another elder dragon that hurt our friends not a Zaitan. What reason did we had then to go against Zaitan?
We should have went against the elder dragon with a very complex name.

Zhaitan attacked Claw Island and killed your mentor – who by that point was a good friend to the PC (ability to show this questionable).

And if you’re charr, human, or sylvari you had even more dealings (Rissa/Howl, Kellach, Mazdak respectively), and if you went to help the hylek even more.

And lets not forget Zhaitan also directly attacked the Headquarters of the Orders, which led to the formation of the Pack and largely to the focus on Zhaitain.