Revamp Zhaitan fight during PS restoration?
This probably should be in the pre-existing thread, no?
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
Wrong forum. Ought to be in the Guild Wars 2 forum, as this is about mechanics not lore.
That said: I want to see the fight change, but just removing minions would make it worse. How do I know? They’ve done that already.
I’d also like to note that Shiro summoned Shiro’ken when he banishedp lacers; Abaddon had Torment Claws and Graven Monoliths, and the Great Destroyer summoned many destroyers. I also much preferred Hell’s Precipice (and Gate of Madness and Destruction’s Depths) over those three.
With Arah becoming a personal story step it is now the one and only personal story step that is of a proper length (imo) and is more than a mere 5 minute instance (well, arguably the Battle of Claw Island and Retribution are of good length, though there is a part in the former that’s too long and Blightghast is a bit too simple of a fight).
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Wrong forum. Ought to be in the Guild Wars 2 forum, as this is about mechanics not lore.
That said: I want to see the fight change, but just removing minions would make it worse. How do I know? They’ve done that already.
I’d also like to note that Shiro summoned Shiro’ken when he banishedp lacers; Abaddon had Torment Claws and Graven Monoliths, and the Great Destroyer summoned many destroyers. I also much preferred Hell’s Precipice (and Gate of Madness and Destruction’s Depths) over those three.
With Arah becoming a personal story step it is now the one and only personal story step that is of a proper length (imo) and is more than a mere 5 minute instance (well, arguably the Battle of Claw Island and Retribution are of good length, though there is a part in the former that’s too long and Blightghast is a bit too simple of a fight).
I mean remove the previous encounters with the Risen mini bosses, Mouth and dragon champions because we already fought them in previous battles.
I mean remove the previous encounters with the Risen mini bosses, Mouth and dragon champions because we already fought them in previous battles.
No thank you.
The Mouth is the best part of Arah story currently (and the fight is MUCH different than the first fight – either one). And the dragon champions are too rarely fought (aside from those three, only Blightghast and Tequatl).
The other champions from before the airship part are meant to serve as introductions to boss mechanics during the explorable mode, and in all honesty aren’t too hard they need nerf/removal. They’re unique enough challenges to remain, IMHO.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
No thank you.
The Mouth is the best part of Arah story currently (and the fight is MUCH different than the first fight – either one). And the dragon champions are too rarely fought (aside from those three, only Blightghast and Tequatl).
The other champions from before the airship part are meant to serve as introductions to boss mechanics during the explorable mode, and in all honesty aren’t too hard they need nerf/removal. They’re unique enough challenges to remain, IMHO.
We already fought a Mouth before, what’s the point of putting it here? If Zhaitan had another more powerful Mouth then it would not starve after we killed that one. Dragon Champions also have been fought before.
That’s like saying “oh, you killed a risen thrall in your first heart. Whelp, guess there’s no point in seeing another one for the rest of the game, right?” Personally, the lesser dragons were far and away my favorite part of the dungeon- the feeling of vulnerability as these giant things swoop around you as you stand on a platform that’s already gone down once already, the satisfaction as you’re able to go toe-to-toe with them, feeling for the first time that you just might be able to pull this off- at least until Zhaitan showed himself. (That bit about already fighting them before? That’s why we need them here. It took armies to take a single one down every time before. Taking three down with a single crew is what lets you know that the balance has changed.) It was fantastic. The Mouth I’m personally not very fussed about, but it is the most mechanically challenging part of the dungeon, and a whole lot of people like that sort of thing.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
That’s like saying “oh, you killed a risen thrall in your first heart. Whelp, guess there’s no point in seeing another one for the rest of the game, right?” Personally, the lesser dragons were far and away my favorite part of the dungeon- the feeling of vulnerability as these giant things swoop around you as you stand on a platform that’s already gone down once already, the satisfaction as you’re able to go toe-to-toe with them, feeling for the first time that you just might be able to pull this off- at least until Zhaitan showed himself. (That bit about already fighting them before? That’s why we need them here. It took armies to take a single one down every time before. Taking three down with a single crew is what lets you know that the balance has changed.) It was fantastic. The Mouth I’m personally not very fussed about, but it is the most mechanically challenging part of the dungeon, and a whole lot of people like that sort of thing.
They aren’t that important compare to Zhaitan, if possible, separate them into to two campaigns like in GW1.
It’s laughable that they are tougher than Zhaitan.
I agree, but taking them out won’t make him any better. You fix the thing that’s broken, not the things that are working.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
I agree, but taking them out won’t make him any better. You fix the thing that’s broken, not the things that are working.
Taking them out(or put them in a previous quest) is to let Zhaitan to be menacing without making the story quest too long or too difficult. Such format had worked very well in GW1.
You fail to realize that it wouldn’t make Zhaitan any more menacing than he currently is unless you change the Zhaitan encounter itself.
Why fight another Mouth? Because it’s a new Mouth. Because you need to secure that landing space for ground troops (presumably if the rumors I’ve heard that there was a ground battle after the tower intended, the ground troops would come into play here) and destroy the anti-aircraft towers descimating the fleet from a distance. Why fight the Dragon champions? Because the skies are full of them, as they should be. It would be weird as all he’ll if you just fly through a swarm of dragons without combating any. That’s half the issue with the silly “air drop” excuse for the current reworked PS.
These encounters do not hinder the fight with Zhaitan, just like fighting the Armageddon Lords and Prince Rurik didnter hinder the fight with Khulbron during Hell’s Precipice.
Sure, we fought different champions before, but to use that as an excuse is not proper. I mean, why fight the Sovereign Eye of Zhaitan then? We already killed an Eye of Zhaitan before. Why fight Tequatl, we already fought Blightghast. Why fight the Shadow of the Dragon twice/thrice? Just because you fought an enemy type once doesn’t mean you should never encounter that enemy type again – even for bosses. Fighting old bosses is a staple in Capcom games and it works well for them. Something like this works a well here too and like I said, for the dragons it would be weird as he’ll to fly through a swarm of them and not fight any.
The only non-Zhaitan fight that needs to be changed, imho, is the wait between the encounters. It should be a bit more fast paced. And Destiny’s Edge needs to get off their butts and do more once on the airships.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
You fail to realize that it wouldn’t make Zhaitan any more menacing than he currently is unless you change the Zhaitan encounter itself.
Why fight another Mouth? Because it’s a new Mouth. Because you need to secure that landing space for ground troops (presumably if the rumors I’ve heard that there was a ground battle after the tower intended, the ground troops would come into play here) and destroy the anti-aircraft towers descimating the fleet from a distance. Why fight the Dragon champions? Because the skies are full of them, as they should be. It would be weird as all he’ll if you just fly through a swarm of dragons without combating any. That’s half the issue with the silly “air drop” excuse for the current reworked PS.
These encounters do not hinder the fight with Zhaitan, just like fighting the Armageddon Lords and Prince Rurik didnter hinder the fight with Khulbron during Hell’s Precipice.
Sure, we fought different champions before, but to use that as an excuse is not proper. I mean, why fight the Sovereign Eye of Zhaitan then? We already killed an Eye of Zhaitan before. Why fight Tequatl, we already fought Blightghast. Why fight the Shadow of the Dragon twice/thrice? Just because you fought an enemy type once doesn’t mean you should never encounter that enemy type again – even for bosses. Fighting old bosses is a staple in Capcom games and it works well for them. Something like this works a well here too and like I said, for the dragons it would be weird as he’ll to fly through a swarm of them and not fight any.
The only non-Zhaitan fight that needs to be changed, imho, is the wait between the encounters. It should be a bit more fast paced. And Destiny’s Edge needs to get off their butts and do more once on the airships.
I’m talking about the whole quest/dungeon’s design, if these were all kept, then there would be little space for Zhaitan’s design because it’s a PS/story dungeon, the length and difficulty can’t be too much. This is why those GW1 story final bosses have their own encounter without fighting much minions first. As a powerful Elder Dragon, Zhaitan deserves its own.
What’s the matter of putting these encounters in a previous quest?
The problem would then be a story concern- explaining why you’re retreating from the final battle to whatever safe place. The way the entire sequence of events is framed would have to be changed.
But, now that I understand your point better, to circle back to your original plea to see these changes in the upcoming patch- it’s not going to happen, unfortunately. To quote Bobby Stein: " Please note that the core gameplay and structure of this story instance has not been changed". This would fall under structure.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
The problem would then be a story concern- explaining why you’re retreating from the final battle to whatever safe place. The way the entire sequence of events is framed would have to be changed.
But, now that I understand your point better, to circle back to your original plea to see these changes in the upcoming patch- it’s not going to happen, unfortunately. To quote Bobby Stein: " Please note that the core gameplay and structure of this story instance has not been changed". This would fall under structure.
Not retreating, they could let Zhaitan fly to another location and let us catch it up. Have you played GW1 before? Such format makes a lot of sense.
I think it’s the best chance to revamp the fight, if they don’t do it then that’s going to be it.
Having Zhaitan run away is not going to make him more menacing. Actually, I can’t think of any GW1 boss that moved away from us. (Maybe Khilbron, but he legitimately had more important things to do. Zhaitan, not so much.) Besides, the GW1 format made use of outposts- the closest equivalent in GW2’s structure would be waypoints. Sitting around on the airship between dragons, patching armor at the anvil? That’s the GW1 format at work.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
(edited by Aaron Ansari.1604)
Having Zhaitan run away is not going to make him more menacing. Actually, I can’t think of any GW1 boss that moved away from us. (Maybe Khilbron, but he legitimately had more important things to do. Zhaitan, not so much.) Besides, the GW1 format made use of outposts- the closest equivalent in GW2’s structure would be waypoints. Sitting around on the airship between dragons, patching armor at the anvil? That’s the GW1 format at work.
It doesn’t have to fly away to escape, but went to corrupt the Source again so we could go fight it there.
But why would it fly away? Why wouldn’t it just finish the annoying little ants that are killing off its minions?
It could just attack and kill us, and then go back to corrupt the Source again.
Krall Bloodsword – Mesmer
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square
It doesn’t have to fly away to escape, but went to corrupt the Source again so we could go fight it there.
While we’re kicking down the door to it’s lair? Just abandon an urgent and pressing event to go do something it could do anytime?
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
While we’re kicking down the door to it’s lair? Just abandon an urgent and pressing event to go do something it could do anytime?
The source was cleansed, surely we were nothing compare to it.
The source was cleansed, surely we were nothing compare to it.
Except that it can go back and corrupt the source at any time.
Why not just finish off the annoying ants attacking it before doing it?
Krall Bloodsword – Mesmer
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square
The source was cleansed, surely we were nothing compare to it.
Except that it can go back and corrupt the source at any time.
Why not just finish off the annoying ants attacking it before doing it?
Because the ants could be smashed any time, but the Source means more to it?
It’s like Shiro Tagachi wanted to restore his mortal form then fight the players.
Lets translate it to real life:
The enemy have invaded and have destroyed your oil production.
The enemy is now outside the gates of your capital city.
Would you really go out and rebuild your oil production rather than destroy the enemy that was about to take your capital city?
Krall Bloodsword – Mesmer
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square