Guild Wars 2

Is ANET just going to just look the other way on this one? It’s going to make no canonical sense to allow a Revenant to defeat Zhaitan. I’m hoping at the very least they’ll add some sort of dialogue that makes it appear as if Revenant professions are “experiencing events of the past”.

Edit: I know there are more threads on this in other subs but I was hoping for some insight from a lore perspective. We all know how quickly posts degenerate in other subforums. I apologize for the redundancy. I enjoy the discussions that happen here. Next time I’ll ask my question differently.

20 threads from 1 google search, gesuz ENOUGH now.

They ALREADY confirmed NOTHING will change with the personal story.
And that is how it SHUOLD be.

The power of the mists is NOTHING new and nor is the use thereof, the name Revenant is just attached to it now and it now becomes available to the player character.

Get your heads out of the box…

1: Rytlock enters the Mists.
2: Rytlock somehow becomes a Revenant.
3: Rytlock returns from the Mists at a point before the Personal Story takes place.
4: The Revenant does now exist before Zhaitan is defeated.

@Lordkrall: Only issues you then have are things like the Butterfly effect in time travel, the fact that there will then be 2 Rytlocks until the story catches up and Warrior Rytlock does the ritual and of course since Revanent Rytlock is around before Zaihtan is dead why wouldn’t he help with the knowledge he knows of the future.

why did a new thread have to be made? there are like 5 threads on it on the first page of the HoT forum alone, including threads with the exact same title.

yes, they are going to “look the other way”, because it would be stupid for the profession to dictate the story when story has NEVER been dictated by profession in the entire franchise.

it won’t break canon any more than playing prophecies on your dervish. just because you couldn’t play the profession up until this spot doesn’t mean it didn’t exist until now (see: all those necros with greatswords).

BrunoBRS.5178:

it won’t break canon any more than playing prophecies on your dervish. just because you couldn’t play the profession up until this spot doesn’t mean it didn’t exist until now (see: all those necros with greatswords).

All I have on this.

My gold is on them not mentioning it at all- a ‘soft’ retcon, if you will, that revenants were around all along. After all, it doesn’t make any more sense for Rytlock to personally teach a new player the profession, especially if you’re inclined to allow that there’s going to be thousands of them.

BrunoBRS.5178:

why did a new thread have to be made? there are like 5 threads on it on the first page of the HoT forum alone, including threads with the exact same title.

yes, they are going to “look the other way”, because it would be stupid for the profession to dictate the story when story has NEVER been dictated by profession in the entire franchise.

it won’t break canon any more than playing prophecies on your dervish. just because you couldn’t play the profession up until this spot doesn’t mean it didn’t exist until now (see: all those necros with greatswords).

Objection!

Canonicaly, if I am not mistaken, each story is set after another.
That is why we can`t create a dervish or an Assassin in Prophecies. They are bound to their geographical and narrative location.

The ability to replay these missions are available to us, because of completionist and gamemechanics.

If we go by story, we ask for help from other nations, which is why our heroes from prophecies were able to help out in Cantha or Elona.
There are missions which open up the pathways to these continents.

So saying that professions were never tied to story is false, as they were at least part of the introduction and setting of Guild Wars.

Guild Wars also had a complete different apporach to the game itself. We were able to replay the past, similiar how season 2 works now.
Guild Wars 2 on the other hand never had the addition of a new class and was designed to be a evolving and ongoing game, with barely any replayability in the story department.
That has changed and now we have this weird mix.

That being said, them turning a blind eye to any kind of continuity is understandable, however for me it is not fine. Even more if Rytlock is supposed to be “something new”, or so.

So far (going from the blogpost) they had cool idea and created something very interesting. They wanted something really new and shiny. They just dropped the ball with the story part…

Jaken.6801:

BrunoBRS.5178:

why did a new thread have to be made? there are like 5 threads on it on the first page of the HoT forum alone, including threads with the exact same title.

yes, they are going to “look the other way”, because it would be stupid for the profession to dictate the story when story has NEVER been dictated by profession in the entire franchise.

it won’t break canon any more than playing prophecies on your dervish. just because you couldn’t play the profession up until this spot doesn’t mean it didn’t exist until now (see: all those necros with greatswords).

Objection!

Canonicaly, if I am not mistaken, each story is set after another.
That is why we can`t create a dervish or an Assassin in Prophecies. They are bound to their geographical and narrative location.

The ability to replay these missions are available to us, because of completionist and gamemechanics.

If we go by story, we ask for help from other nations, which is why our heroes from prophecies were able to help out in Cantha or Elona.
There are missions which open up the pathways to these continents.

So saying that professions were never tied to story is false, as they were at least part of the introduction and setting of Guild Wars.

Guild Wars also had a complete different apporach to the game itself. We were able to replay the past, similiar how season 2 works now.
Guild Wars 2 on the other hand never had the addition of a new class and was designed to be a evolving and ongoing game, with barely any replayability in the story department.
That has changed and now we have this weird mix.

That being said, them turning a blind eye to any kind of continuity is understandable, however for me it is not fine. Even more if Rytlock is supposed to be “something new”, or so.

So far (going from the blogpost) they had cool idea and created something very interesting. They wanted something really new and shiny. They just dropped the ball with the story part…

umm… that’s exactly my point.

you can only play a dervish if you start his or her story 3 years after prophecies. and yet, you can play prophecies with a dervish, and at no point in time do they acknowledge the time inconsistency.

also worth pointing out, the professions themselves weren’t tied to the story, but to the campaign. it wasn’t that assassins and ritualists had a special canthan early story, it’s that canthan characters (including the core professions) had a special canthan early story.

either way, this argument is pointless, because they already confirmed that there won’t be new story or starting zone or anything past mechanics for the revenant.

Yeah, which is quite a bummer.
I understand why they do it, though.

Oh If my memory serves me right there was some story tied to the professions. At least for Cantha, as you had some teachers that gave you quests, which were based on your profession.
In Nightfall it wasn`t that much. The most we got were with Prophecies of course, which is reflected in Ascalon Catacombs, with the ghosts of the teachers

Jaken.6801:

Yeah, which is quite a bummer.
I understand why they do it, though.

Oh If my memory serves me right there was some story tied to the professions. At least for Cantha, as you had some teachers that gave you quests, which were based on your profession.
In Nightfall it wasn`t that much. The most we got were with Prophecies of course, which is reflected in Ascalon Catacombs, with the ghosts of the teachers

each profession had a teacher, and you were free to take on classes of any professions (since GW1 had dual professions). all campaigns had that.

Well, there were profession-specific quests that helped flesh out the flavor of each class, in Prophecies and Factions, anyway. Pity those died out over time. Alas, the idea doesn’t port well, or at all, really, to GW2’s systems.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Well, there were profession-specific quests that helped flesh out the flavor of each class, in Prophecies and Factions, anyway. Pity those died out over time. Alas, the idea doesn’t port well, or at all, really, to GW2’s systems.

You think so?
They could have provided a storystep which is based around your characters profession.
Choosing a profession could be synonymous to choosing a backstory.
While I see some complications, it could have been done.
Immersionwise it would have been a great addition.

I dunno… the way the personal story was structured, it would have been prohibitively difficult. If it was put in the early parts, you’d need one per race per profession- that’s 40 additional instances, or as you suggest full chapters (the later, if on the scale of the smallest arc that actually got put in, would be by itself half as many quests as were in the game at launch). And if not at the beginning, then where? The racial stories don’t all come together until after you’ve been handed off to your order. From there, I suppose they could’ve replaced the lesser race arc with profession stuff, although that space still would’ve been better filled with well-written order specific plots.

Personally, I think the best opening they’ve had for that kind of content would’ve been the traits system, either when it was initially being conceived or when it was revamped. It frustrates me that instead we just were sent to yet another merchant- who doesn’t even have dialogue!- and then had it additionally tied to absolutely random bits of what was already in the game, with no actual differentiation by profession.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

I dunno… the way the personal story was structured, it would have been prohibitively difficult. If it was put in the early parts, you’d need one per race per profession- that’s 40 additional instances, or as you suggest full chapters. And if not at the beginning, then where? The racial stories don’t all come together until after you’ve been handed off to your order. From there, I suppose they could’ve replaced the lesser race arc with profession stuff, although that space still would’ve been better filled with well-written order specific plots.

Well, the easier way would not be chapters, though, but what they do at the moment with LS2.
Actually recognizing the profession your character has and opening up different dialog options here and there.

That would limit the amount of new content, but would require the right knowledge of all instances to introduce the new profession throughout the PS.

btw. who think it would be funny for a Norn Revenant to talk to his mist walker (forgot the name): "Yeah, you know, walking through the mist. It`s kinda my thing. Want me to pull someone out there? No problem. Just let me get my Axe (Temporal Rift).

I hope they place a lot of Lore throughout the world, or give us a good lore bomb down the line, desctribing the profession in detail. So far this profession is (lore and storywise) using the power of gods, which technicaly other professions are able to do as well, but for me the Mist is being able to do everything and not being bound to a particular sphere of influence.
So yeah. What are his limits? So far we have seen the energy mechanic, which is bound to the legends. So is his limit that he only borrows them like pokemon and puts them away if their energy is low, till they have recharged?

That’s something I’ve been thinking about too. There is profession specific dialogue in-game now, even if it is so scarce it may as well be non-existent, and expanding on that system would be the easiest way to ease the revenant in- but I’d want to see it expanded for all professions, or else we’ll end up with the revenant getting far more of a unique experience than any of the other options. My concern is that while it seems easiest, it’d still require devs to comb exhaustively through existing dialogue for places to work it in, or else change dialogue or add new NPCs altogether, and it’d be much, much more low-key then added PS or something linked intrinsically to traits. Their response after the event infusion in… the first October, was it? It indicates they aren’t willing to put in such a hefty investment for something that makes so little a difference to your average player.

It occurs to me now that there is a new opportunity for them, though- specializations. The initial offering of one per profession might be a bit niche, but depending on how far they take the system and how much variety they allow within the class archetypes, building story around specializations could easily fill the same roll as the profession quests in GW1, just at the opposite end of the experience, and even allow for a greater degree of customization than the original.

I wonder how many other Revenants there will be… Just Rytlock and the PC? A few NPCs in the new zones? Or NPCs all over Tyria?

Koviko.3248:

I wonder how many other Revenants there will be… Just Rytlock and the PC? A few NPCs in the new zones? Or NPCs all over Tyria?

technically speaking, all PCs are canon. sure, you’re the only one involved in the personal story, but every other PC you come across is a “professional adventurer”.

BrunoBRS.5178:

Koviko.3248:

I wonder how many other Revenants there will be… Just Rytlock and the PC? A few NPCs in the new zones? Or NPCs all over Tyria?

technically speaking, all PCs are canon. sure, you’re the only one involved in the personal story, but every other PC you come across is a “professional adventurer”.

Sure, but that’s not really what Koviko’s asking. It’s a question of whether ANet’s going to retroactively fill up the world with revenants, and if so, how they’ll go about it.

To address the question: way I see it, if this is indeed going to be a retcon, they’ve got two options- they need to either seed the world with revenant NPCs, or handwave it as a particularly difficult/esoteric/plain rare ability, one out of reach of the NPC masses. If they don’t make a visible choice, it’s going to end up looking like the later anyway.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

BrunoBRS.5178:

Koviko.3248:

I wonder how many other Revenants there will be… Just Rytlock and the PC? A few NPCs in the new zones? Or NPCs all over Tyria?

technically speaking, all PCs are canon. sure, you’re the only one involved in the personal story, but every other PC you come across is a “professional adventurer”.

Sure, but that’s not really what Koviko’s asking. It’s a question of whether ANet’s going to retroactively fill up the world with revenants, and if so, how they’ll go about it.

To address the question: way I see it, if this is indeed going to be a retcon, they’ve got two options- they need to either seed the world with revenant NPCs, or handwave it as a particularly difficult/esoteric/plain rare ability, one out of reach of the NPC masses. If they don’t make a visible choice, it’s going to end up looking like the later anyway.

most NPCs, even the combat types, don’t have professions, so i don’t see the point in sprinkling revenants around.

They aren’t as elaborate as ours, but I’ve yet to see a single NPC, save variants of “Citizen”, who didn’t use skills that were easily recognizable as being pulled from one profession or another.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

They aren’t as elaborate as ours, but I’ve yet to see a single NPC, save variants of “Citizen”, who didn’t use skills that were easily recognizable as being pulled from one profession or another.

i can’t say i remember many NPCs that had more than an autoattack and a generic second attack that isn’t necessarily a “signature move” of a profession as much as it is “oh and these guys also do this”.

Sorry, I’ve been playing a lot of GW1. Bruno’s right that pretty much no NPCs actually have a profession in GW2, especially not the friendly NPCs (unless they are a trait merchant).

“Rytlock is the world’s first revenant.”

See? izi

I doubt it will be mentioned ingame anyway.

@Bruno and Koviko at risk of derailing the thread, I went through the game a while back to see where all the major armed forces fall in professions. All the Seraph use warrior skills, the Wardens all use ranger or elementalist skills, the Peacemakers are useless but do use a warrior animation, Iron Legion uses warrior, guardian, and engineer skills, Ash Legion uses necromancer and thief skills, and Blood Legion uses warrior skills (never did get around to Lionguard or Ebon Vanguard, though). They aren’t advertised as such the way GW1 did, Koviko, but if you compare them to players it’s easy to see.

I think it’s less that they have a profession and more that they know certain profession skills. For example, Inquest Technicians know the Elementalist’s Phoenix attack and a miniature Static Field, but those are from two different weapon sets. Also, their auto-attack is a rifle, which Elementalists can’t use.

That said, I haven’t really examined the abilities of friendly NPCs too deeply, but I assume it’s a similar thing for them. They have an iconic attack or two, but that’s the extent of their “professional” knowledge.

Then again… Typically, an NPC being of a particular profession in GW1 meant that they only had a few of the attacks that the profession had (or similar attacks to the style of the profession). So, maybe the NPCs do technically have professions by the old GW1 logic of what made an NPC a particular profession.

Of course, I’m speaking as a GW1 player that never made it to level 20 so my experience is limited there.

Rytlock is the first npc that we know became a revenant, that doesn’t mean he was the first revenant.

Goatjugsoup.8637:

Rytlock is the first npc that we know became a revenant, that doesn’t mean he was the first revenant.

If it is stated by the devs that he is the worlds first revenant , then I am pretty sure, he is… not.

Given their track record in using the word World and it`s synonyms, while only meaning the continent Tyria, there could be certainly other around the whole world (Seriously, Scarlet attacked all around the globe , we had a world summit only consisting of the five high races. Seriously, give them a map -_- ).

That being said, he might be the first on the continent Tyria, though that is certainly breaking the timeline and as mentioned before they are willing to turn a blind eye to that matter.

By all means. Everything we know about this class so far breaks the timeline.
However I can understand why they don`t prioritize that in favour of giving us a new class to play with.

Jaken.6801:

Given their track record in using the word World and it`s synonyms, while only meaning the continent Tyria, there could be certainly other around the whole world (Seriously, Scarlet attacked all around the globe , we had a world summit only consisting of the five high races. Seriously, give them a map -_- ).

And the World Series barely extends beyond the US borders. Miss Universe only includes Earth. I think a little liberty with the language can be overlooked.

But back to the original point. Yes, Rytlock will be first “officially”, but it’s not like the PC is ever referred to by his profession. So things get a little wonky. So a Ritualist killed the Lich King before the trade routes to Cantha opened wide. So what? We can overlook stuff like that from time to time. You’re still the hero, and get to destroy all the bad guys out there.

And if all else fails, remember the motto: “Any lore not mentioned in the game is flexible and subject to change.” This includes Colin’s announcement at PAX South.

Jaken.6801:

Goatjugsoup.8637:

Rytlock is the first npc that we know became a revenant, that doesn’t mean he was the first revenant.

If it is stated by the devs that he is the worlds first revenant , then I am pretty sure, he is… not.

Given their track record in using the word World and it`s synonyms, while only meaning the continent Tyria, there could be certainly other around the whole world (Seriously, Scarlet attacked all around the globe , we had a world summit only consisting of the five high races. Seriously, give them a map -_- ).

That being said, he might be the first on the continent Tyria, though that is certainly breaking the timeline and as mentioned before they are willing to turn a blind eye to that matter.

By all means. Everything we know about this class so far breaks the timeline.
However I can understand why they don`t prioritize that in favour of giving us a new class to play with.

still think people are taking rytlock’s “world first revenant” thing out of context. it’s like saying trahearne was the world’s first specialized necromancer.

they only mean it’s the first character we’ve seen in GW2 sporting such abilities, not a literal lore “world first”.

And chances are Rytlock learned his new abilities from … someone.