Guild Wars 2

Double Agent for Jormag…….

And we are paying him 1 gold each for Icy Runestones. LOL…………

He is there to get funds for his master Jormag and we the heroes are directly funding it!!
:P

i don’t think Jormag is interested in gold.

… which is pretty much why the Elder Dragons are such boring villains. They have no desires we can relate to. Destroying the entire world just because they want to consume its magic is a bit meh when it comes to the bad guys motives.

I disagree. Zhaitan established his risen as an actual kingdom with a military hierarchy by putting the ones useful to the tasks they had while alive. Jormag has taken upon the role of a religious figure.

It’s clearly more than just “destroy the world”. Whether one finds them relatable is another story.

But I don’t think that the villain needs to be relatable to be good. I mean, can you relate to Darth Vadar or Emperor Palpatine? I can’t relate to “rule the galaxy” or the like. But I and many others still find them good villains.

But do we actually know if the risen “kingdom” was meant to actually endure or was it just means to an end – which is Zhaitan consuming all possible magic from the world and at the process destroying pretty much all sentient beings.

After that would have been accomplished, what would have happened to the risen? Their master would go to sleep and they would all perish as Zhaitan’s power would no longer keep them running?

I guess I would just want to see some “human” villains for a change, be they actually human, centaur, asura, charr or w/e. Sure we have tons of minor villains but no major ones. Scarlet was obviously one, but we couldn’t really relate to her either.

I’m probably demanding too much from a PG rated video game, though

Konig Des Todes.2086:

But I don’t think that the villain needs to be relatable to be good. I mean, can you relate to Darth Vadar or Emperor Palpatine? I can’t relate to “rule the galaxy” or the like. But I and many others still find them good villains.

I don’t want to derail the conversation, but just had to respond. Yes, I can certainly relate to Vader and Palpatine. Although tactics are different by a long shot, their goal is similar to the Jedi and the ideas of many many people. They want order, stability, and peace. They just go about it their own unique way.

As to the topic itself, I don’t know if Jormag himself is interested in gold, but his organization has to be. As mentioned, he has set himself up as a religious figure and his followers are tempted by promises of power. As such, he has to have a steady income of gold in order to fund the people he converts (living expenses, weapons, fortresses, etc.).

It would actually be pretty cool to see a dragon learn and understand mortal behaviors, and manipulate them to better it’s position. Although, you could make the argument that Jormag is already doing this via religion.

@Tom Gore: Risen do not have free will, and many champions constantly talk about Zhaitans eternal rule.

Zhaitan saw himself as a ruler. A king of sorts. He wanted world domination, and wanted a nation beneath him given the structure. We even see risen acting as if Zhaitan had promised them eternal life and power, despite their lack of free will. Showing that he gave a level of autonomy to his minions and, further, that he intended to keep them under him forever. An eternal kingdom, undying for they are undeath.

Each dragon, though it isn’t all that clear, has shown a personality and goal unique to themselves – something much larger than the commoner’s opinion of their goal (‘destroy the world’).

• Kralkatorrik shows himself wanting everything in Edge of Destiny. He is greed. He will no doubt hoard everything, like a traditional dragon, and corrupt it all in the process.
• Mordremoth says “I am this world” – repeatedly in many forms. He saw himself as Tyria itself. That’s not seeking world destruction, as that would be destroying himself, effectively. He seeks not only servitude of all things, whether they accept it or not, but to become the very world.
• Jormag, as I’ve said, has established himself as a religious figure. A god of sorts. And furthermore, he preaches about strength – not just the Sons of Svanir, but the icebrood do as well (see Frozen Portal in Drakkar Spurs). He seems to be after a world where ‘survival of the fittest’ is law, and he is god.

And I already mentioned Zhaitan.

These things may not be very relate-able, but if what I perceive is true, that makes them interesting villains all the same.

@Invictus:

I do not see Palpatine’s goal being ‘order, stability, and peace.’ Hell, he even shouts “unlimited power!” as he kills Mace Windu.

Also, the norn don’t really need all that much gold. Being norn, they hunt and make most of their own stuff, and they can also raid things. They probably take care of their own needs well enough that Jormag doesn’t think twice.

@Mushroomz: I think both Mordremoth and Jormag have been doing that from the start.

Mordrem Guard don’t seem actually corrupted given the sane one we can talk to during the Rata Novus story instance, but rather convinced by Mordremoth’s telepathy to serve him. This means he tricks them, plays them into his hands, which requires an understanding of each and every individual. Including Scarlet Briar.

This is similar to what Jormag did, via Drakkar, to Svanir in GW1 and did, via Dragonspawn, to Zojja in Eye of the North – and is implied to do to all his dragon minions. Use telepathy to convince conversion. And from them, they spread the teachings of conversion to others, playing to people’s desires (the norn seeking strength and power, primarily).

Hmm when you put it like that, it does sound a tad more interesting. They all seem to have the same weakness though – arrogance. Instead of trying to manipulate the world into accepting their rule or wants (i.e. for example letting Zhaitan rule Orr), they give the finger to everyone and spur them to fight them until they either win or lose.

With two of them dead now you would think the remaining four would at least start to see the mortals races as a serious threat. We’ll see if they’ve learned anything from the mistakes of Zhaitan and Mordremoth, or will they continue being chaotic stupid and fight us with everything they got until either side is dead.

Of course they might come to a conclusion that they themselves are seen as such a threat that the mortal races would come after their heads whether or not they’d keep pushing their dominion any further than they’ve already established.

When you’ve wiped out countless civilizations over several tens of thousands of years, I think arrogance is kind of expected.

This is the first time the Elder Dragons had such strong resistance.

And I think Mordremoth saw the Pact for the threat it was, though still underestimated them. Publicly, it seems that it is “the Pact Fleet” credited with killing Zhaitan when the land army did most of the work to weaken Zhaitan to a point (this crediting is why the nobles followed behind in their own airship, and why Rox – iirc – says that the fleet and DE brought down Zhaitan so how could they fight Mordremoth). Mordremoth knew this public view and wiped out the Fleet, thinking the foot soldiers wouldn’t make it into Dragon’s Stand or to him since his army and the chak were in their way.

Whether they continue this trend with each dragon becoming not only more powerful (more magic to consume than the last) but less arrogant (more dragons brought down by their enemies) thus more interesting plots will be a question to be had.

It would be deeply interesting actually if Jormag engaged in economic warfare. It would open up strange plots alas this is too far removed from GW2 narrative. I doubt such a thing would ever happen in an Elder Dragon plot. Typical corrupt Sons’ of Svanir do not care much about anything but slaughtering in Dragon’s name. This is referenced for HoTW. I would like to see a fan fic of Elder Dragon Economic Ware-fare.

Sell heroes of Tyria Legendary weapon mats but buy all DR’s wheat. Beware the power of the merchants of Jormag. As added bonus you can make Sous-Chef Seimur Oxbone turn to Jormag because of promises of gold.