S3E6 violation of Charr lore "spoiler"
I think this is the problem with moving away from making content that players can miss. I would have preferred that we were given two options(join the shining blade/don’t join the shining blade) similar to how things were done in the original personal story. A lot of stuff has seemed “out of character” for my main ever since they stopped letting us make choices in the story.
My head cannon is that my main(an Asura) has very questionable ethics and would have no problems with making an oath to a human organization that he didn’t really care about or intend to keep should it interfere with research. I would have preferred to reject the offer to join the shining blade and have a more antagonistic relationship with them throughout the story(while still working with them due to a common enemy.)
I have kind of accepted this whole charade under the premise that race doesn’t really matter in this regard since you’re invited as the Pact Commander. If you weren’t the commander, you would’ve been stopped at the door AND you wouldn’t want to join if you weren’t human. This is more of a “position and fate of the world supersede racial association”
look at what happened to tribune Rytlock when he stepped out of line fight Mordremoth instead of following his duty, he was escorted back to the citadel for investigation.
Actually, Rytlock was called to the Citadel to explain to Smodur about his time in the Mists when he went there to get his sword back. Got nothing to do with fighting Mordremoth. Smodur actually agreed to fight Mordremoth during the World Summit at the Grove.
Even as a Sylvari player (or any other race than human) it seems absolutely unbelievable that any of them would join the Shining Blade under any circumstance, especially considering the included death when talking Blade business with unauthorized persons.
Also…kitten my character is an OoW Lightbringer, the Blade might be good, but the Order plays on magnitudes of greater scale and level of secret service, even if they were culled during the jungle campaign of the pact. Is that part of “my story” completely forgotten? :S
Also, if they wanted to reveal the Livia part to everyone, then why not let Lazarus do the job? He caled her Livia, revealed all her secrets for her – she wouldn’t have died when telling us again after that fight. No need to join the Blade, just help them and let the reveal come through the outside source.
(edited by Sailsd.9245)
look at what happened to tribune Rytlock when he stepped out of line fight Mordremoth instead of following his duty, he was escorted back to the citadel for investigation.
Actually, Rytlock was called to the Citadel to explain to Smodur about his time in the Mists when he went there to get his sword back. Got nothing to do with fighting Mordremoth. Smodur actually agreed to fight Mordremoth during the World Summit at the Grove.
Rytlock was ordered by Smodur to end the ghosts however, when he returned from the mists he didn’t immediately report what he found in the mist, instead he went on the dragon hunt with the commander. Even though Smodur agreed to help that doesn’t mean every Charr was ordered to fight the dragon, Rytlock’s was in the mist and his order to end the ghost remains unchanged. This is why he wasn’t just called by the citadel he was forcefully taken back to the citadel and stripped of his rank, because he stepped out of his current mission when he was chasing the dragon with the commander and as a result he failed to report in time.
Each race has its praetorian guard. And this shifting into shining blade far outweighs the standard. Its like a Sylvari becoming a Arcane Eye agente for Asura.
look at what happened to tribune Rytlock when he stepped out of line fight Mordremoth instead of following his duty, he was escorted back to the citadel for investigation.
Actually, Rytlock was called to the Citadel to explain to Smodur about his time in the Mists when he went there to get his sword back. Got nothing to do with fighting Mordremoth. Smodur actually agreed to fight Mordremoth during the World Summit at the Grove.
No evidence of any kind, but I feel like Smodur is feeling threatened. He’s not assaulting Rytlock, he’s just shortening the leash. Smodur is the interim leader in the absence if a proper Khan-Ur, and probably fears that by meddling in the mists he can make a claim at Khan-Ur if he’s given free road (regardless of whether or not Rytlock even cares about Khan-Ur-ship). Smodur’s not a villain, and probably a good leader, but even interim leaders dont like to give up their power when true kings return.
Rytlock was ordered by Smodur to end the ghosts however, when he returned from the mists he didn’t immediately report what he found in the mist, instead he went on the dragon hunt with the commander. Even though Smodur agreed to help that doesn’t mean every Charr was ordered to fight the dragon, Rytlock’s was in the mist and his order to end the ghost remains unchanged. This is why he wasn’t just called by the citadel he was forcefully taken back to the citadel and stripped of his rank, because he stepped out of his current mission when he was chasing the dragon with the commander and as a result he failed to report in time.
From what we’re told, it has less to do with what Rytlock was doing and more with how long he took doing it. HoT canonically took place in early 1328. Rytlock was arrested in 1329, after utterly disregarding two or three messages from the Black Citadel. He’s not in trouble for going after Mordremoth; he’s being court-martialed for remaining AWOL for about a year afterwards. Essentially, desertion.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
This bothered me too. Under no circumstances would any of my charr join the Shining Blade, but most certainly not under threat of magical death. Even the ones who are gladium mercenaries wouldn’t willingly submit to a magical lie detector oath that kills you. Not to mention our character just accepts this demand on good faith and assume the sneaky, underhanded secret agents aren’t going to hack our brain and turn us into a puppet.
Even my Sylvari would refuse. Their first loyalty is to the Pale Tree, not to the Krytan throne.
Even with a human main I didn’t like owing fealty of any kind to the Shining Blade. It felt like I was joining a kittening cult with all the ritualism, and like with Sailsd, my character is a Lightbringer and I didn’t have to go through half this kitten with the Order. In the (highly unlikely) chance that Jennah goes bad the player character is kitten outta luck with a kittening MAGICAL DEATH OATH OVER THEIR HEAD. All just to get just a bit of info the player character shouldn’t have given a kitten about. And the dialog was so very cringey.
Overall my least favorite aspect of this entire LW season.
Hate is Fuel.
Technically, the Blade’s allegiance is to keeping the salmaic dynasty on the krytan throne, and given that we’re a ‘super speshul agent’ that is probably going to be the one thing the PC can’t work against, however, most races except maybe the Norn are in favor of having Jennah on the throne for now. And the Norn don’t care all that much either way.
And if Jennah ever did go cray cray, it would probably be the blade that went to find a replacement heir. Supposedly there’s a hint that there’s another heir. One would hope anyways. Jennah’s getting to her late thirties and has no known heir.
Obviously the PC as a charr joining the blade is simply ridiculous, but when you think about it for a minute, especially considering that said Charr has the same mindset as every other Pact Commander: ‘unite, fight teh darguns, save teh wurld’, is it so implausible that they’d agree to this? Yes, your PC charr would be a super special snowflake, but given that he/she has already united the races against two dragons, there’s not much more they can do to highlight the fact that they’re not an ordinary charr. I know MY charr would never agree to this, but it’s not MY charr we’re playing. It’s the Pact Commander. And knowing the Pact Commander, being the sly devil they are, they simply wouldn’t mention any of this to the Legion’s high command. Especially if they’re OoW members. And Ash Legion.
I can appreciate the desire for difference in story by species, I want it too, but at this point diverging it again would cause at least five alternate realities. Unless we were to pull a swtor. For example, if a new PS step was to have your charr, idk, become Imperator or the Khan-Ur, how would that look to a PC whose a human? Who becomes the new bigshot for the charr? It’d get messy Very quickly, or it’d become vague. The new imperator would be nameless, just like for say, the Knight in swtor, the Bounty Hunter is just a faceless merc with a title. Personally, i’d rather not have that fives times over in key positions throughout the lore. The world is mysterious enough, tyvm.
I agree that splitting the story is unworkable, but I don’t think that’s what anyone is actually advocating. The common complaint seems to be that the story shouldn’t have been written to require taking the Oath, regardless of race.
We already knew the Eye was following aspects, and that Balthazar had an aspect. Livia knew that just having all the aspects in one room would’ve been enough to resurrect Lazarus, no laying them out on pedestals required, and that we were deadset on following the Eye. There was nothing stopping her from saying ‘yeah, go ahead and hang on to that for now if you don’t trust me.’ She would’ve still gotten her way, and we would have been able to skip the entire instance.
Personally, I did find the Headquarters and all the books inside interesting, but it didn’t feel like the instance fit the story, and the Oath was an ordeal. Even the NPCs didn’t seem like they were taking it seriously, with the melodramatic voice acting. Things would’ve flowed smoother without it.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
And if Jennah ever did go cray cray, it would probably be the blade that went to find a replacement heir. Supposedly there’s a hint that there’s another heir. One would hope anyways. Jennah’s getting to her late thirties and has no known heir…
We don’t know how old Jennah is and I’m not inclined to think that she’s in her late thirties. Remember that she took the throne at an early (if unspecified) age due to the death of her father. Konig or Drax could confirm or deny this but I seem to recall that a big part of the problem she’s had with the ministry is because they increased their power and influence during the early years of her reign, as she (again, as I recall) wasn’t quite old enough to rule on her own. But I could be wrong.
Hate is Fuel.
We don’t know how old Jennah is and I’m not inclined to think that she’s in her late thirties. Remember that she took the throne at an early (if unspecified) age due to the death of her father. Konig or Drax could confirm or deny this but I seem to recall that a big part of the problem she’s had with the ministry is because they increased their power and influence during the early years of her reign, as she (again, as I recall) wasn’t quite old enough to rule on her own. But I could be wrong.
I’m pretty sure there’s a sylvari in the grove that mentions her age, granted, how a sylvari would know is questionable at best. The wiki has her at 1290 for her birth year, meaning her father died when she was 20 in 1310, leaving the ministry to rule until she was 26? Which fits with what we hear in the grove, as if iirc, they said she was ‘almost thirty’. So maybe low-mid thirties by now.
And if Jennah ever did go cray cray, it would probably be the blade that went to find a replacement heir. Supposedly there’s a hint that there’s another heir. One would hope anyways. Jennah’s getting to her late thirties and has no known heir…
We don’t know how old Jennah is and I’m not inclined to think that she’s in her late thirties. Remember that she took the throne at an early (if unspecified) age due to the death of her father. Konig or Drax could confirm or deny this but I seem to recall that a big part of the problem she’s had with the ministry is because they increased their power and influence during the early years of her reign, as she (again, as I recall) wasn’t quite old enough to rule on her own. But I could be wrong.
You’re right. And we’re told it was a headache for her to wrestle control back from Caudecus later.
That said, there was a line in the Grove at launch (1325) that said that that Jennah was ‘almost thirty.’ That puts her in her early-to-mid thirties now.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
Oath is completely a non-issue and most likely a very very very long con to keep people from betraying the Blades. Livia tells you where the secret HQ of the Blades is but doesn’t die. But if she tells you her mission she will? Nice try Livia.
The wiki has her at 1290
Ahh, no it doesn’t. Triple checked both Jennah’s page and the timeline page, neither mentions her birth year. Gunna need you to give us where you go that.
You’re right. And we’re told it was a headache for her to wrestle control back from Caudecus later.
That said, there was a line in the Grove at launch (1325) that said that that Jennah was ‘almost thirty.’ That puts her in her early-to-mid thirties now.
Huh. That’s…weird. I was still leaning towards almost thirty myself as it made her not having an official publicly recognized heir vaguely more plausible. So much for that.
I do dislike Anet’s decision to have the passage of time in-game match up with real world years. It causes more problems than it fixes in my opinion.
Hate is Fuel.
Yup. Complete and utter nonsense from start to finish, on every level for pretty much every kind of character. Also, the “tone” of it is all off. On one hand it’s supposed to be oh-so-grave and glorious and special and blah blah blah. On the other hand, there is the aforementioned sense of people not actually taking it seriously. Livia sneers at how much she wants to see you suffer, and everyone overacts like a bunch of kids at a high school play.
This is indeed absurd. I don’t see how this Oath could have fit the other races at all.
This is why GW2 as a multiracial game fails. Because it can’t work in its current scope as multiracial.
Sure – if you had 10x the number of devs and resources it could have worked – with each race getting an awesome story that makes sense. But like this? No.
You guys are experiencing now the same thing I experienced when Balthazar was revealed – and as a human player – instead of immediately joining him I was forced to fight him despite my actual loyalties.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
Does the charr PC even report back to the legions?
I don’t recall seeing or hearing about a single case where the charr commander even sends so much as a letter back home to report on current status. As I recall, they were given leave to join the orders, then after that they became pact commander.
Now that they have left the Pact, they are a free agent (Or at least, purposefully stepped away from their second in command of the Pact role).
This is why GW2 as a multiracial game fails. Because it can’t work in its current scope as multiracial.
Disagree. It could work if they switched the focus back to the player character i.e. the protagonist instead of the too-many NPCs and their various issues. We’re not talking about wholly diverging storylines here — even a human character should have brains enough to realize that a god who is perfectly happy to kill them and everyone on Tyria isn’t worth following, though giving them a bit of an optional crisis-of-faith arc should be a must. Mainly, all I really want a handful of race-specific dialog lines per story chapter or LS episode (voiced or not) and some regular call-outs to the character’s origin. Like a charr catching up with their warband or getting word from their Imperator. Or a sylvari getting to talk about their Wyld Hunt (do we even have one anymore?) and keeping up with news about the Pale Tree’s condition.
If this was a single-race game, it’d probably be human-only, and that would be a waste IMO because pretty much every other culture is far more interesting to me.
Does race even matter?
We abandoned our krewe, our warband, norn dont care about the hunt, sylvari abandoned their wyld hunt, and humans.. well.. royal or born on the streets, when was the last time you met with your friends?
Does race even matter?
We abandoned our krewe, our warband, norn dont care about the hunt, sylvari abandoned their wyld hunt, and humans.. well.. royal or born on the streets, when was the last time you met with your friends?
Krewe and Warband yes.
Norn what hunt? They finished the great hunt and moved to the next adventure.
Sylvari finished their wyld hunt to kill Zhaitan. They got a new one to kill Mordremoth. They finished both and abandoned neither.
Humans can’t be royal, but the implication I got was Noble birth (friends mostly is Faren and a few others). Commoner (friends are mostly the tavern people they worked/stayed with. I forget if it’s just working with or if they lived with them). Street Rat all their friends were gang members who mostly died off, were killed by the PC, or left the life of crime shortly after the PC leaves DR.
But yes, in all cases the PC doesn’t really communicate or go spend time with their start of personal story friends/co-workers, or even the orders that much.
the PC is literally a free agent and adventurer now, wandering the world.
This is why GW2 as a multiracial game fails. Because it can’t work in its current scope as multiracial.
Disagree. It could work if they switched the focus back to the player character i.e. the protagonist instead of the too-many NPCs and their various issues. We’re not talking about wholly diverging storylines here — even a human character should have brains enough to realize that a god who is perfectly happy to kill them and everyone on Tyria isn’t worth following, though giving them a bit of an optional crisis-of-faith arc should be a must. Mainly, all I really want a handful of race-specific dialog lines per story chapter or LS episode (voiced or not) and some regular call-outs to the character’s origin. Like a charr catching up with their warband or getting word from their Imperator. Or a sylvari getting to talk about their Wyld Hunt (do we even have one anymore?) and keeping up with news about the Pale Tree’s condition.
If this was a single-race game, it’d probably be human-only, and that would be a waste IMO because pretty much every other culture is far more interesting to me.
First of all I understand why you’re disagreeing – but like I said before – multiple story lines require resources they don’t have. That’s why having one story line would have made more sense.
Heck – if GW2 wasn’t multiracial I doubt we’d have seen the human gods as antagonists at all.
But leaving that aside – You don’t exactly know what Balthazar intends to do – or if he indeed intends to kill everyone on Tyria. Honestly – I feel he’s been written into this corner because we need an antagonist – to me – a more in-character Balthazar would have attempted to reconquer the land. Which I would fully support.
You say that a human-only game would be a waste – I disagree – it would have pros and cons.
The main reason it wasn’t human only was simply the economic factor- a multi-race game sells better. Simply being able to staple on “We have more than one race” is enough to bring clients that otherwise would have been lost. That’s why it was a must to have more than the humans as a playable race.
Honestly – I find the other races interesting too – but feel they were MUCH more unique and fleshed out in GW1 when they weren’t playable – precisely because they weren’t playable and you didn’t have to “humanize” them in a way to fit players.
I should also point out that we’ve had no other human culture in GW2 because space is taken up by cultures of other races – in GW1 you had other human cultures that were very unique and interesting. There was space in GW2 to make other human cultures that would be just as unique as interesting as the other races now. Plus – having the game be human-only as playable characters didn’t mean not have the other races in the game – just that you couldn’t play as them. Their lore, and unique elements would not be lost.
Lastly – I feel human only would have made the story much much more coherent – because you could have focused on one point of view instead of trying to jump around so much.
When you try to please everyone you end up pleasing no-one. That’s how the GW2 story feels to me.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
Does race even matter?
We abandoned our krewe, our warband, norn dont care about the hunt, sylvari abandoned their wyld hunt, and humans.. well.. royal or born on the streets, when was the last time you met with your friends?
Pretty much this – the races have been “humanized” to fit the narrative that needs to push forward. It doesn’t feel authentic to me.
Ultimately you can’t play as a Norn or Asura or Charr because you’re a human. You’re a human playing as these races and the story has been twisted and modified to accommodate this to the point where it doesn’t even feel believable.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
To be fair, being a multicultural game would work absolutely find if the story didn’t focus on our character the way GW1’s story did. That sort of storyline just doesn’t work well with an MMO where the main character of the story will have to have no personality, origin, race, or even gender.
It would have been better to not put the player in the role of “single most important person in the entire universe” and just make us a nameless hero who shows up, saves the day, interacts with the NPCs, and then leaves. Have us on the periphery of the story following Trahearne and Destiny’s Edge, maybe with some minor side questlines that involve our old warband or krewe or what have you to keep the feeling of belonging to our race intact.
Bonus points if our warband/krewe/gang/hunting buddies/flower friends joined us on missions similar to in GW1 as NPCs.
I would have felt much better about this story step if I were watching say, Margory join the Shining Blade than my charr doing it.
To be fair, being a multicultural game would work absolutely find if the story didn’t focus on our character the way GW1’s story did. That sort of storyline just doesn’t work well with an MMO where the main character of the story will have to have no personality, origin, race, or even gender.
It would have been better to not put the player in the role of “single most important person in the entire universe” and just make us a nameless hero who shows up, saves the day, interacts with the NPCs, and then leaves. Have us on the periphery of the story following Trahearne and Destiny’s Edge, maybe with some minor side questlines that involve our old warband or krewe or what have you to keep the feeling of belonging to our race intact.
Bonus points if our warband/krewe/gang/hunting buddies/flower friends joined us on missions similar to in GW1 as NPCs.
I would have felt much better about this story step if I were watching say, Margory join the Shining Blade than my charr doing it.
Then how much complaining would Anet have to deal with that boils down to “But I do all the heavy lifting, why don’t I get any credit or hero status???”
Lydgate’s maxim definitely applies here. “You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time.”
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
Then how much complaining would Anet have to deal with that boils down to “But I do all the heavy lifting, why don’t I get any credit or hero status???”
There’s a trade secret to be used in exactly this situation that many a story writer has used when faced with similar criticism. It’s called “ignore them”.
Most players aren’t writers. Most players have never attempted to make a coherent story or setting in their lives. They have no idea how many issues crop up in a narrative when you shoehorn your player character into the lead role of a multiplayer game. Anet catered to the demand for a more important PC and now their NPCs and the individuality of the PC has suffered for it, causing people to complain.
As was said above, you can’t please everyone all of the time. There will always be complaining.
And if Jennah ever did go cray cray, it would probably be the blade that went to find a replacement heir. Supposedly there’s a hint that there’s another heir. One would hope anyways. Jennah’s getting to her late thirties and has no known heir…
We don’t know how old Jennah is and I’m not inclined to think that she’s in her late thirties. Remember that she took the throne at an early (if unspecified) age due to the death of her father. Konig or Drax could confirm or deny this but I seem to recall that a big part of the problem she’s had with the ministry is because they increased their power and influence during the early years of her reign, as she (again, as I recall) wasn’t quite old enough to rule on her own. But I could be wrong.
By my understanding, the Queen’s Jubilee (in 1326) was the tenth year of her reign, and her reign did not actually start until she reached the age of majority in Kryta (whatever that is). So if we assume that the age of majority in Kryta is 18, that would make her 28 in 1326, and 32 now.
(If the ten years includes the regency period, then she could be up to four years younger (she was the ruler in Edge of Destiny, set in 1320), and if the age of majority is something other than 18, then her age could be different based on the different age of majority.)
And yes, a big part of Caudecus beef is that he decided he enjoyed being in charge when he was the regent.
To those who think Scarlet hate means she’s succeeded as a villain:
People don’t hate Scarlet like Game of Thrones fans hate Joffrey.
They hate her the way Star Wars fans hate Jar Jar Binks.
People don’t hate Scarlet like Game of Thrones fans hate Joffrey.
They hate her the way Star Wars fans hate Jar Jar Binks.
Then how much complaining would Anet have to deal with that boils down to “But I do all the heavy lifting, why don’t I get any credit or hero status???”
There’s a trade secret to be used in exactly this situation that many a story writer has used when faced with similar criticism. It’s called “ignore them”.
Most players aren’t writers. Most players have never attempted to make a coherent story or setting in their lives. They have no idea how many issues crop up in a narrative when you shoehorn your player character into the lead role of a multiplayer game. Anet catered to the demand for a more important PC and now their NPCs and the individuality of the PC has suffered for it, causing people to complain.
As was said above, you can’t please everyone all of the time. There will always be complaining.
You can’t please everybody, this is entirely true.
But notice how in living story season 2 and 3, we became more noticeable important/got comments about how big we where?
After the people who never bothered to read dialogue of PS complained about how “ALL MA CREDIT GOT STOLEZ BY TREEBEARD.”?
Sadly, the people who like stuff tend to be quieter then the insane, loud, small group.
IMO, it did suffer some. Anet’s strength in GW1 was that we were the hero, but we weren’t in charge. PS worked pretty well (IMO) because we weren’t in charge, and season 1 somewhat for the same reason.
however when the commander became “The person in charge” like HoT, things quickly went downhill. Like how the commander does very little in that storyline to actually be “The commander of the Pact” :P.
Hopefully with Path of Fire, we return to that “important, but not perhaps THE person in charge” role.
And if Jennah ever did go cray cray, it would probably be the blade that went to find a replacement heir. Supposedly there’s a hint that there’s another heir. One would hope anyways. Jennah’s getting to her late thirties and has no known heir…
We don’t know how old Jennah is and I’m not inclined to think that she’s in her late thirties. Remember that she took the throne at an early (if unspecified) age due to the death of her father. Konig or Drax could confirm or deny this but I seem to recall that a big part of the problem she’s had with the ministry is because they increased their power and influence during the early years of her reign, as she (again, as I recall) wasn’t quite old enough to rule on her own. But I could be wrong.
By my understanding, the Queen’s Jubilee (in 1326) was the tenth year of her reign, and her reign did not actually start until she reached the age of majority in Kryta (whatever that is). So if we assume that the age of majority in Kryta is 18, that would make her 28 in 1326, and 32 now.
(If the ten years includes the regency period, then she could be up to four years younger (she was the ruler in Edge of Destiny, set in 1320), and if the age of majority is something other than 18, then her age could be different based on the different age of majority.)
And yes, a big part of Caudecus beef is that he decided he enjoyed being in charge when he was the regent.
Yeah I’m pretty sure the Jubilee was her tenth year as Queen, I’d already taken that into account. I’m still leaning towards Jennah’s coronation taking place while she was still too young to rule on her own. Jennah’s page states “Her coronation was in 1316 AE, after the death of her father.”
(I acknowledge that the wording is the wiki’s but its all I have at this time)
The wording seems to imply to me that she was crowned very shortly after her father’s death (would it have killed them to give him a name?). Admittedly it doesn’t say “immediately after the death of her father” but it still seems to imply a short period of time.
There’s also the possibility, though low probability, that age of majority in Kryta is lower than eighteen. Tyria being a mishmash of High Middle age, Renaissance and early Industrial (and whatever the Norn may fall under) its not outside the realm of possibility (and there are some cases in gw1 of characters just under eighteen that are treated like adults). But Tyria being a fantasy world that’s view almost overwhelmingly through the modern lens (as compared to, say, Tolkien or even Martin) it’d be rather unlikely. Not really sure why I bothered now…
Regardless, until we get better info on the matter, I’ll remain of the opinion that Jennah’s still a little younger than her thirties, if for no other reason that it makes it slightly more believable that she doesn’t have a publicly acknowledged heir yet.
Hate is Fuel.
You can’t please everybody, this is entirely true.
But notice how in living story season 2 and 3, we became more noticeable important/got comments about how big we where?
After the people who never bothered to read dialogue of PS complained about how “ALL MA CREDIT GOT STOLEZ BY TREEBEARD.”?
Sadly, the people who like stuff tend to be quieter then the insane, loud, small group.
IMO, it did suffer some. Anet’s strength in GW1 was that we were the hero, but we weren’t in charge. PS worked pretty well (IMO) because we weren’t in charge, and season 1 somewhat for the same reason.
however when the commander became “The person in charge” like HoT, things quickly went downhill. Like how the commander does very little in that storyline to actually be “The commander of the Pact” :P.
Hopefully with Path of Fire, we return to that “important, but not perhaps THE person in charge” role.
Indeed. The personal story was mostly fine, though as a roleplayer it does bother me that I can’t name the Pact’s commander because he exists in a weird quantum bubble where he’s simultaneously every PC and none of them. Not having a name for such an important figure is awkward from a story telling perspective.
There’s a tricky balance between giving the players the validation they need to feel like their time in the game was worth while and having the freedom to tell a decent story with actual characters that have a personality. The biggest flaw in GW2’s attempt was that they focused too much on the PC at the expense of their characters, and even then the players still complained about not getting enough credit.
GW1’s way of doing it was over all stronger. Our character was an unsung hero for most of it. Someone doing great things that, like you said, didn’t have a position of power within the world. Another advantage was that the PC wasn’t the sole hero involved. Every step of the way we had an entourage of other heroes with us, to the point the story wasn’t “Johnny Awesome saves the world”. It was “A group of heroes including Cynn, Aidan, Jora, Pyre Fierceshot, and others saved the world”.
I often lament that Anet dropped the companion system from the first game. Even if you can solo most open world content now, it would have been interesting to keep your warband/krewe/gang/hunting party/flower friends on as NPCs that come with you on your personal story missions. That way the story doesn’t go “Johnny Awesome saves the day”. It’s “One of the Pact’s elite special forces saves the day.” The player remains mostly anonymous in the grand scheme of things, but our actions are talked about so that we can feel like we accomplished something.
They could have in turn done something with the home instance mechanic and allowed us to customize it and built it up to reflect the accomplishments we’ve achieved in saving the world with our team.
GW1’s way of doing it was over all stronger. Our character was an unsung hero for most of it. Someone doing great things that, like you said, didn’t have a position of power within the world. Another advantage was that the PC wasn’t the sole hero involved. Every step of the way we had an entourage of other heroes with us, to the point the story wasn’t “Johnny Awesome saves the world”. It was “A group of heroes including Cynn, Aidan, Jora, Pyre Fierceshot, and others saved the world”.
Indeed, as a roleplayer myself I enjoyed that because I can reference my GW1 cast as being present at many, if not the majority of the events but not as “THE HERO” but instead as on of many heroes who fought through it all.
Hell, my personal viewpoint is that missions in say, nightfall had all the nightfall heroes and henchmen present lorewise, even if game limited how many were out.
Then of course, the nightfall heroes went home and the EOTN featured the EOTN heroes and henchmen.
@TheGreyhawk: Yeah, the variables are why I listed my assumptions. I do recall mention that the Jubilee marked ten years of her actual rule and not the regency, but I may be mistaken on that. Certainly, though, she was the ruler by the time of Edge of Destiny. So her minimum age is the age at which she was able to assume the authority of the crown, plus the time between now and Edge of Destiny. And I’d have to say that in Edge of Destiny, she felt young, but not teenager young. So I think it’s reasonable to estimate her current age at 30, give or take a couple of years. I think the highest age that can be reasonably justified is 35, which assumes that she’s not allowed to take the throne until 21 (a monarchical system seems unlikely to require someone to be much older than that to take power).
The youngest… you might be able to argue that Jennah could have been a very mature 16-year-old in Edge of Destiny, I guess, which would make her 26 now.
@Ehecatl: I’m inclined to agree that having the PC continue to have a set of companions through the personal story (and beyond) possibly could have worked better.
For charr, this would be the warband.
For asura, their krewe.
For norn, a hunting party.
For sylvari, a group of Valiants who share the PC’s Wyld Hunt (or have a compatible one).
For humans, this simply be an adventuring party, or could be something that varies according to background. A noble, for instance, might have household troops, while a commoner might have reformed gang members.
You could even have had options in the home instance to customise your unit.
To those who think Scarlet hate means she’s succeeded as a villain:
People don’t hate Scarlet like Game of Thrones fans hate Joffrey.
They hate her the way Star Wars fans hate Jar Jar Binks.
People don’t hate Scarlet like Game of Thrones fans hate Joffrey.
They hate her the way Star Wars fans hate Jar Jar Binks.
-snip-
I’d probably put her at 28 at the youngest myself, but as I initially said, I just don’t think she’s late or mid 30s, beyond that its not terribly important to me.
Hate is Fuel.
@Ehecatl: I’m inclined to agree that having the PC continue to have a set of companions through the personal story (and beyond) possibly could have worked better.
For humans, this simply be an adventuring party, or could be something that varies according to background. A noble, for instance, might have household troops, while a commoner might have reformed gang members.You could even have had options in the home instance to customise your unit.
You could also obtain new characters as you progress. Your charr unit gets assigned to work with the Priory to help them in the war against the Elder Dragons and as you go you can add Priory characters to your group, adopting them into your warband in the same way charr away from the Legions will often consider people they care about part of their “warband”. Other races will be even easier to explain the additions. Then the Pact forms and you become a mixed unit of various individuals from the different orders and races.
It could make for a far more racially appropriate story that meshes really well with the multiplayer nature of the game. When a friend joins your personal story mission the story doesn’t have to ignore they are there either, they are just another part of your group. It would also give you a lot more sense of individuality, as these people who have come together are there because of YOU. Even if you’re just a single Pact unit of many that brought down Zhaitan, you and your elite team were instrumental in the dragon’s downfall. Even though you aren’t the most important person in the world, you are the most important person to your team. You could even say you’ve created a guild out of them, thus finally connecting the name of the franchise to the actual story for the first time since ever.
Anet could also monetize it by adding different companion skins on the gem shop, which would offset the need for more dialogue boxes from the various NPCs. I wouldn’t expect them all to be super talkative like the Dragonwatch crew, but each NPC could have their own dialogue branches that tell their story, combined with some random reactionary dialogue so they feel a little alive.
Meanwhile the heavy dialogue comes from your interactions with your mentor (who ideally wouldn’t die so early and stay with you for a much longer length of time), your order leader, the members of Destiny’s Edge, and Trahearne.
I would never join the Shining Blade, not even as a human. Their ritualistic BS is too cult-like to my liking, not to mention I strongly dislike their objectives. They’re not about protecting Kryta, they’re about protecting Jennah’s bloodline. I see monarchy as tyranny, so yeah… I would rather not be allied with the current Krytan government at all, unless it puts me in a more opportune position to destroy them and usurp power (but in a more clever way than Caudecus and his ilk).
It’s true that we are acquiring conflicting loyalties as the story goes on. Before long we’ll be Sunspears as well.
To the OP’s point; Rytlock explained at one point in the story that Rox (and presumably the heroes ) are free agents and no longer attached to a legion.
Americans who hold office are forbidden to hold foreign titles. For this reason, When something like a Knighthood is bestowed on an American politician it is honorary. I consider most of these accolades and positions in-game honorary.
Countess Anise made it quite clear we’d be free agents. General Soulkeeper also made it clear that the rank of “Commander” was more-or-less honorary.
Aspiring Masons make a similar oath as do new members of an organization I belong to. It’s meant to emphasize the seriousness of membership.
Mesmerising Girl
I would never join the Shining Blade, not even as a human. Their ritualistic BS is too cult-like to my liking, not to mention I strongly dislike their objectives. They’re not about protecting Kryta, they’re about protecting Jennah’s bloodline. I see monarchy as tyranny, so yeah… I would rather not be allied with the current Krytan government at all, unless it puts me in a more opportune position to destroy them and usurp power (but in a more clever way than Caudecus and his ilk).
It’s “cult like” because they literally got betrayed by one of their highest members to the white mantle, which resulted in the bulk of the shining blade being murdered or imprisoned (In Prophecies, after the betrayal happens it’s commented on that the shining blade, at that moment, was a non-entity as a fighting force. They regained strength after the end of prophecies).
By definition, monarchs are Tyrants, because the definition of Tyranny comes from ancient greece where the idea of one person holding power, regardless of intent or personality, was viewed as extremely bad.
And actually, their goal is protecting Kryta. It’s been implied that if a king or queen is doing things that will actively harm Kryta’s well being, they can remove them and replace them with the next in line.
Why do you hate the Krytan government so much? It’s corruption stemmed from Caudecus, who is no dead, the white mantle, who are also wiped out now, and the other traitors who were aligned with them, who are dead, imprisoned, or in hiding.
Jennah is a kind and loved ruler, the Ministry is now on track to becoming what it should have been all along, And they are advancing ideals of peace, not endless war.