Guild Wars 2

So…

1) The pact is gone/destroyed/disbanded.

2) Trehearne is dead.

3) We have Caladbolg no or what remains of it.

4) Mordremoth is dead.

5) and we just had another Season 2 ending but this time the Ley line energy goes right into Glint’s egg.

What now because they might as well just put a “to be continued.” at the ending scene.

Season 1 ending, you mean. Pact isn’t gone, just highly devastated. Despite how many NPCs survived.

I’m confused a bit about the Pact. In Verdant they are isolated, scared, and barely hanging onto survival in small makeshift camps. In Auric, they are mostly priory running around going ooooh and aaaaah at all the golden shinies. I’ve been trying to avoid Tangled Depths since I don’t like the map layout but it seems like suddenly they are trying to organize some kind of offensive. Not sure where they mustered the means but okay.

Then in Dragon’s Stand they are marching an army of soldiers and copters to go kill Mordremoth. A tattered and broken down Pact just picks up some scraps off the ground and says…let’s kill Mordremoth anyways! A bajillion Mordrem stand between our half-dead soldiers and our goal. We got this!

Boysenberry.1869:

I’m confused a bit about the Pact. In Verdant they are isolated, scared, and barely hanging onto survival in small makeshift camps. In Auric, they are mostly priory running around going ooooh and aaaaah at all the golden shinies. I’ve been trying to avoid Tangled Depths since I don’t like the map layout but it seems like suddenly they are trying to organize some kind of offensive. Not sure where they mustered the means but okay.

Then in Dragon’s Stand they are marching an army of soldiers and copters to go kill Mordremoth. A tattered and broken down Pact just picks up some scraps off the ground and says…let’s kill Mordremoth anyways! A bajillion Mordrem stand between our half-dead soldiers and our goal. We got this!

I haven’t fully played through the later maps yet, but in Verdant Brink the fact is very much in disarray, scattered and unsure who to trust with enemies all around. You help the Pack to establish outposts and fight back and lessen the danger in Verdant Brink. From their the Pact is able to push into Auric Basin, meet the Exalted, help to fight off the Modrem, and reestablished another foothold. Seems that the Golden City offers safety and respite for the Pact forces to rest up and push on.
So basically the first two maps are least clearly show the Pact regaining some of their strength and establishing a foothold to push on deeper towards Mordy.

CureForLiving.5360:

Boysenberry.1869:

I’m confused a bit about the Pact. In Verdant they are isolated, scared, and barely hanging onto survival in small makeshift camps. In Auric, they are mostly priory running around going ooooh and aaaaah at all the golden shinies. I’ve been trying to avoid Tangled Depths since I don’t like the map layout but it seems like suddenly they are trying to organize some kind of offensive. Not sure where they mustered the means but okay.

Then in Dragon’s Stand they are marching an army of soldiers and copters to go kill Mordremoth. A tattered and broken down Pact just picks up some scraps off the ground and says…let’s kill Mordremoth anyways! A bajillion Mordrem stand between our half-dead soldiers and our goal. We got this!

I haven’t fully played through the later maps yet, but in Verdant Brink the fact is very much in disarray, scattered and unsure who to trust with enemies all around. You help the Pack to establish outposts and fight back and lessen the danger in Verdant Brink. From their the Pact is able to push into Auric Basin, meet the Exalted, help to fight off the Modrem, and reestablished another foothold. Seems that the Golden City offers safety and respite for the Pact forces to rest up and push on.
So basically the first two maps are least clearly show the Pact regaining some of their strength and establishing a foothold to push on deeper towards Mordy.

That would actually be an interesting theory, that by progressing from the map, you basically progress through the story as well. But that could only work if you see the NPCs, relevant NPCs from Verdant Brink in Auric Basin and then later in Tangled Depths and in the end Dragon’s Stand. But as far as I know, you don’t.

Urosh Uchiha.9732:

CureForLiving.5360:

Boysenberry.1869:

I’m confused a bit about the Pact. In Verdant they are isolated, scared, and barely hanging onto survival in small makeshift camps. In Auric, they are mostly priory running around going ooooh and aaaaah at all the golden shinies. I’ve been trying to avoid Tangled Depths since I don’t like the map layout but it seems like suddenly they are trying to organize some kind of offensive. Not sure where they mustered the means but okay.

Then in Dragon’s Stand they are marching an army of soldiers and copters to go kill Mordremoth. A tattered and broken down Pact just picks up some scraps off the ground and says…let’s kill Mordremoth anyways! A bajillion Mordrem stand between our half-dead soldiers and our goal. We got this!

I haven’t fully played through the later maps yet, but in Verdant Brink the fact is very much in disarray, scattered and unsure who to trust with enemies all around. You help the Pack to establish outposts and fight back and lessen the danger in Verdant Brink. From their the Pact is able to push into Auric Basin, meet the Exalted, help to fight off the Modrem, and reestablished another foothold. Seems that the Golden City offers safety and respite for the Pact forces to rest up and push on.
So basically the first two maps are least clearly show the Pact regaining some of their strength and establishing a foothold to push on deeper towards Mordy.

That would actually be an interesting theory, that by progressing from the map, you basically progress through the story as well. But that could only work if you see the NPCs, relevant NPCs from Verdant Brink in Auric Basin and then later in Tangled Depths and in the end Dragon’s Stand. But as far as I know, you don’t.

In fact, you do. There is this servent for example, you see getting an a chopper at the end of the noble meta event in Verdent Brink about whom you later learn in Tangled Depths that that chopper crashed (in the Scar meta event).

Even more telling is the presence of Ibli in Dragon’s Stand.

There’s only 3 NPCs afaik that show up later from Verdant Brink. The servant, Ibli, and Tizlak.

No one else does. You don’t see Laranthir, Shashoo, Occam, etc. etc. etc. ever again. They’re stuck in Verdant Brink, forever more.

The maps should show the majority of Verdant Brink survivors showing up and assisting the Exalted in Auric Basin, then again later in Tangled Depths. Have some evacuate each map, and find more the next map.

Example:

Verdant Brink has NPCs A, B, C, D, and E. C and E are wounded so they are evacuated.
Auric Basin has NPCs A, B, D, F, G, H, I, J. G, and H are wounded and B becomes wounded and are evacuated.
Tangled Depths has NPCs A, D, F, I, J, K, L, M, N, O. C and E return with reinforcements bringing NPCs P, Q, R, and S, but NPC N is wounded so is evacuated.
Dragon’s Stand has NPCs A, C, D, F, I, J, K, L, M, O, P, Q, R, and sees the return of G and H with some reinforcements (S, T, U, and V).

That would be better showing the Pact “picking itself up and carrying on its fight against Mordremoth”. Instead we have Pact crashed in each map, with the NPCs stuck in those maps – only natives to the jungle or the case of a crashed copter features a returning NPC.

By having completely new NPCs in each map for the Pact, you’re showing that the 100 NPCs in Verdant Brink survived… but so did the 100 in Auric Basin, the 100 in Tangeld Depths, and the 100 in Dragon’s Stand. But across the maps, you only hear about 100 dying. So despite the constant claims of the Pact being “all but gone” and “decimated”…. the majority of the Pact soldiers survived. Apparently.

What’s worse is that Barron and Fero got killed off screen. GREAT NPCs… killed off screen. Da hell?

The best NPC was that Norn Roy who loved the minions of Mordremoth, talking about how they ‘ate’ his partner long ago.

Great tongue in cheek humor by Anet.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

There’s only 3 NPCs afaik that show up later from Verdant Brink. The servant, Ibli, and Tizlak.

No one else does. You don’t see Laranthir, Shashoo, Occam, etc. etc. etc. ever again.

Laranthir can be seen at the Pact Base Camp in Dragon’s Stand.

Shashoo, Agent Zildi, Lagula, Bongo, Dawkkurra, SCAR leader – all of them showed up in the final battle.

We saw Ogres’ pets, nuhoch scarabs…

Laranthir and The Pale Reavers went to Dragon’s Stand after finishing their buisiness with Skybreaker, they just don’t make an in-game appearance again. But ya, more characters should’ve come back.

I wonder if The Pact will stay together after this, or if it will disband and the 3 Tyrian Orders will act independently again. Im also curious to see how the world leaders who dedicated forces will react after they find out about how many supposedly died. Keep in mind that Jennah and Smodur pledged forces from the Seraph and High Legions to the campaign against Mordremoth that remained separate from The Pact, but you never get to see any of them, so im assuming they’re all dead, or off-screen.

The pact is not gone, you PC is the commander. Whether it stays together or not…

Also not ALL of the dragon energy went to the egg.
If you watch the cut scene you see two streams of the energy go West and East in addition to the North one that hits the egg.
That could mean something or nothing. I’m assuming nothing because why would they shoot the energy West when we’re more then likely never going that way, and East would be towards Orr or I suppose the Crystal Desert.

Shiren.9532:

Unless Braham settles down and starts the school of dragon hunting, tieing the origins to the new spec to him seems like a bad move. Guardians across Tyria are going to become dragonhunters but is it just going to be a coincidence that they learn the exact same techniques Braham does?

Dragonhunters are supposed to be guardians that specialise in hunting down and probably killing dragon minions. The most logical source of a widespread change in guardians mastering these techniques would be a response to the sylvari (dragon minions) turning on the Pact. Just like a handful of people in Lion’s Arch distrust sylvari after Scarlet, across Tyria the distrust towards sylvari as confirmed dragon minions would result in a rise of intolerance. Dragonhunters could have their origins as a villainous group hunting down sylvari, Son’s of Svanir, Inquest – any formerly accepted fringes of society related to dragon minions. Braham isn’t the only one who lost someone to Mordremoth or an elder dragon and making him a dragonhunter because his dead mother used a longbow is super cheesy, especially after they did the same thing with Marjory and her sister, or Logan and his brother.

Using Braham to tell that story makes no sense for Tyria as a whole.

Too be honest. Tying it down to guardians also makes no sense, as we have no reason to single this porfession out as something more qualified to hunt dragons, than others.
Dragons and their minions are just too varied and there could easily be one that resitst guardian magic and techs.

@Konig. Yeah. HoT sees a lot of potential and ideas but at the same time we see a lot of failed execution.

I got an idea. We have a PvP and general stream on twitch. how about a lore stream? I know speculating is half of the fun, but a bit more insight aside from the snippets we get ingame are certainly apreciated.

Lore steam would be great. Don’t see it happening though.

DresdenAllblack.1249:

The best NPC was that Norn Roy who loved the minions of Mordremoth, talking about how they ‘ate’ his partner long ago.

Great tongue in cheek humor by Anet.

Were those Mordrem? I though they were Saurians? Mind you ANet did not do a good job of visually distinguishing between normal and mordrem version of the fauna.

CureForLiving.5360:

DresdenAllblack.1249:

The best NPC was that Norn Roy who loved the minions of Mordremoth, talking about how they ‘ate’ his partner long ago.

Great tongue in cheek humor by Anet.

Were those Mordrem? I though they were Saurians? Mind you ANet did not do a good job of visually distinguishing between normal and mordrem version of the fauna.

He mentions a Mordrem Vinetooth.

You guys keep saying that the Pact was destroyed and what not, but you are all being confused with the wording
The pact was not decimated, the pact FLEET was decimated, meaning their airship fleet they used to assault zhaitan
The pact is still intact, although they probably did suffer heavy casualties when the fleet was taken down

In the final instance, the PC tells Trahearne that the Pact is “all but gone.” The Pact. Not the fleet. The Pact.

Gorgaan Peaudesang.8324:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

There’s only 3 NPCs afaik that show up later from Verdant Brink. The servant, Ibli, and Tizlak.

No one else does. You don’t see Laranthir, Shashoo, Occam, etc. etc. etc. ever again.

Laranthir can be seen at the Pact Base Camp in Dragon’s Stand.

If i recall correctly he also speaks in the cut scene after you complete the meta event in dragon stand.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

In the final instance, the PC tells Trahearne that the Pact is “all but gone.” The Pact. Not the fleet. The Pact.

Presumably they Pact Fleet included the bulk of the Pact fighting force (alternatively their D-Day involved the b-team… which would be a bad strategy)

Konig Des Todes.2086:

In the final instance, the PC tells Trahearne that the Pact is “all but gone.” The Pact. Not the fleet. The Pact.

Wait really?
So they want us to believe that they threw everything in for that attack?
- So we have no base of operation,
- no fleet construction sites,
- no B-Team,
- no remnants patroling other parts of the world and taking care of other EDs
- No Plan B or C?

Seriously? Did they want the Pact gone so badly?
We need an army to show how devestating the EDs are.
They are a great plot device.
They can show how we build up again and have people fight with us.

It`s not like we couldn´t have expanded on it like:
- Pact 1.0 has heavy losses against Zaithan
- Pact 2.0 get`s help from core Tyria races to fill the ranks, but even that isn`t enough.
- Pact 2.5 sends out expedition to find other allies in the world
- Pact 3.0 gets help from allies, they helped on their expedition (aka Cantha or Elona army)
- etc…

As it is now, all efforts were for nothing, we are reduced to a very small group and the World leaders will bunker up in their homes and refuse help (well,w e could talk to them again. I mean, I am THE COMANDER with the tounge of gold).

I really hope that this is not where they are going.

I liked my few valuable pact characters, who were awesome and have shown that there are others who get things done, aside from adventure party 356 aka destinys edge 2.0, which by all means has completly lost its merrit, as they dont work towards their strenghts (aside from Taimi, who just plays the usual nerdy Asura.)

I doubt that it would be everything, honestly, as that would be weird – after all, they’re still mopping up Orr and have a foothold against Jormag in Frostgorge, and even left some soldiers behind in Silverwastes to hold back the mordrem land invasion. But I do think that Anet’s trying to take the Pact out of the picture after HoT.

It’s likely that the Pact will remain more in spirit, as the three orders go back to doing their own thing, but still sort of collaborating against the dragons. Maybe this is Anet’s way of moving back toward Order-focused stuff, so the game will feel a bit more tailored to our decisions. Not that I minded the Pact, but it was kind of heading downhill for a long time.

The problem with the Pact previously was that they, and to a lesser extent the orders, overshadowed the individual races and nations. The individual politics and relationships and strengths and weaknesses and other flavour of the races and various other factions basically all disappeared once it was all absorbed into the homogenous blob that was the Pact. As a result, a lot of the flavour of the world of Tyria is lost when the Pact is the dominant force in the fight against the dragons, for as long as the story is predominantly focused on that fight (which, since Scarlet turned out to be connected to the dragons, it has been). One of the big criticisms in the main personal story, for instance, is that the retaking of Orr is something that should have been of great significance to humans from a religious and cultural perspective, but that got all but completely washed out in favour of the Pact doing everything.

I think one of ArenaNet’s story goals is to redress that balance. I don’t think the Pact will disappear entirely – however, I think it’s likely to become an umbrella force that has the ability to carry on day-to-day operations holding the lines against dragon minions on its own, but needs to draw on the larger forces of the races for bigger engagements such a holding back a serious invasion or launching one of their own.

Even in the leadup of Heart of Thorns, it was still presented as a case of the Pact wanting assistance from the nations in order to provide additional forces, but it was still largely a Pact operation and the national forces seemed to just be a few extra bodies that were nice to have but the operation probably would have taken place anyway without them. What I’d like to see is a situation where the Pact actually needs to rely on the races in order to get things done. Maybe if the situation in Kryta stabilises enough, the Pact might cede increasing amounts of territory in Orr to Kryta to free up Pact forces to go elsewhere. When the tooth of Jormag gets cracked, I’d like to see the fight to retake the norn homeland be a primarily norn effort with the support of the Pact, rather than a repeat of Orr where the holy city of humanity was liberated by a mostly nonhuman force and there’s little ingame evidence that anyone in Kryta noticed or cared. When we go after Primordus in the Depths, I want to see the asura taking the lead with legions of golems, offering a very different feel to when we go after Kralkatorrik with a combined force of charr, humans, and Exalted, and have to resolve tensions between the charr and the god-worshippers along the way. The Pact can be along in each case for continuity, but I think future campaigns against the dragons having their own unique feel thanks to the forces coming predominantly from the parties with the highest stakes in the campaign would be more interesting then each one being the same generic Pact force.

Argon.1563:

Laranthir and The Pale Reavers went to Dragon’s Stand after finishing their buisiness with Skybreaker, they just don’t make an in-game appearance again. But ya, more characters should’ve come back.

I wonder if The Pact will stay together after this, or if it will disband and the 3 Tyrian Orders will act independently again. Im also curious to see how the world leaders who dedicated forces will react after they find out about how many supposedly died. Keep in mind that Jennah and Smodur pledged forces from the Seraph and High Legions to the campaign against Mordremoth that remained separate from The Pact, but you never get to see any of them, so im assuming they’re all dead, or off-screen.

There is Lieutenant Francis of the Seraph – he took part in the PS.
And I believe that SCAR is Iron Legion.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

In the final instance, the PC tells Trahearne that the Pact is “all but gone.” The Pact. Not the fleet. The Pact.

At same time, Canach mentions that Mordremoth is busy with the battle outside of the tree/structure.

Kalavier.1097:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

In the final instance, the PC tells Trahearne that the Pact is “all but gone.” The Pact. Not the fleet. The Pact.

At same time, Canach mentions that Mordremoth is busy with the battle outside of the tree/structure.

But that battle is being waged by a combination of remaining pact, itzel, nuhoch, exalted, nightmare court (well, at least 1 courtier), skritt and so on. It is not just the pact.

Diovid.9506:

Kalavier.1097:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

In the final instance, the PC tells Trahearne that the Pact is “all but gone.” The Pact. Not the fleet. The Pact.

At same time, Canach mentions that Mordremoth is busy with the battle outside of the tree/structure.

But that battle is being waged by a combination of remaining pact, itzel, nuhoch, exalted, nightmare court (well, at least 1 courtier), skritt and so on. It is not just the pact.

Technically, the Pact includes more then just the orders. They had allies in the Ogres, grawl, quaggan, skritt, and others :P.

Either way, despite how badly the story showed it, it seemed like a decent chunk of the pact forces deployed to maguuma survived, even if the air fleet was almost entirely destroyed.

Not everybody, but at least enough to stand a chance. It’s one thing I wish the story did better. Since we are the leader of the pack with Trahearne being MIA for the bulk of the story.

Kalavier.1097:

Diovid.9506:

Kalavier.1097:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

In the final instance, the PC tells Trahearne that the Pact is “all but gone.” The Pact. Not the fleet. The Pact.

At same time, Canach mentions that Mordremoth is busy with the battle outside of the tree/structure.

But that battle is being waged by a combination of remaining pact, itzel, nuhoch, exalted, nightmare court (well, at least 1 courtier), skritt and so on. It is not just the pact.

Technically, the Pact includes more then just the orders. They had allies in the Ogres, grawl, quaggan, skritt, and others :P.

Sure but many of the allies in Dragon’s Stand are new allies, not old pre-existing allies of the pact.

Well, the skritt you mentioned were, I believe, the skritt from the PS (just as the ogres were). I think that’s where Kalavier was going with his statement.

And @Kalavier: I agree that the Pact seems mostly in-tact, which really diminishes the “devastation” part. They hit a set-back, but with so many survivors I would hardly consider the Pact “all but gone” in either its literal or metaphorical meaning.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Well, the skritt you mentioned were, I believe, the skritt from the PS (just as the ogres were). I think that’s where Kalavier was going with his statement.

The Skritt is Dawkkurra from Westwatch (she’s in love with one of the Exalted).
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dawkkurra

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Well, the skritt you mentioned were, I believe, the skritt from the PS (just as the ogres were). I think that’s where Kalavier was going with his statement.

And @Kalavier: I agree that the Pact seems mostly in-tact, which really diminishes the “devastation” part. They hit a set-back, but with so many survivors I would hardly consider the Pact “all but gone” in either its literal or metaphorical meaning.

Yeah. It was one disappointment I had with the plot. We are taking over as leader (as shown in the first mission), then shortly after the first prison camp, we just go “Lol, screw them” and basically run solo and ignore the pact in the story missions for the most part.

I think the pact should have been far more heavily involved with the story missions, to show that we are the leader and actually doing our job.

In the past, the GW1 and GW2 ‘hero’ hasn’t been the LEADER, but instead highly trusted and doing the special/important tasks. Somebody else was the leader. It worked all the way until right now in HoT, where our hero IS the leader of the Pact now instead of second in command.

I know this post is a month old but it seems better to just continue this thread instead of creating a new same thread….

back on topic:

I’m a bit concerned how Anet will handle the story from here on. Our character is not really Organization Leader Material when you look at how his or her life as a Adventurer is top priority for their life over everything else.

Also, as Kalavier mentioned, our Hero has never been the leader of a major organization in the GW storyline until now and was more of a Black Op Unit leader only leading a small group of highly skilled Players/NPCs to handle tasks far too dangerous and/or too risky that normal NPCs could not do. Not to mention our character freedom to be adventurers is due to not being a leader of a major organization which has been the lore reason why our character can do what he or she does from fractals, dungeons, exploration, and etc.

I am worried how they will handle the “Our character is leader of the Pact” plot now since the whole HoT plot felt like it was made to satisfy the “I want Trehearne dead and my character to be the Pact Leader” crowd which, I know this may offend these type of people, was a very bad idea because our character isn’t really Organization Leader material but more of a “Small band of Hero” leader material which fits our character better due to the things our character constantly get him or herself into.

Pact is the reason why five nations not act together to deal with elder dragons as concluded in Pale Tree summit. With Pact gone and many members of destiny edge are out of mission, forming a new army among the nations could be the new drama of the story.

From a story telling perspective, if PC becomes the new leader, there will be very little room for character development in the future.

Doug Whisper.2465:

Pact is the reason why five nations not act together to deal with elder dragons as concluded in Pale Tree summit. With Pact gone and many members of destiny edge are out of mission, forming a new army among the nations could be the new drama of the story.

From a story telling perspective, if PC becomes the new leader, there will be very little room for character development in the future.

The Pact is not gone however. The PC says that to Trahearne, but there is next to no actual backing of the statement.

A: Pact forces in Orr are still very well intact, as are the base orders.
B: Even as the fleet was destroyed, Pact forces in the silverwastes were intact and actually holding their ground effectively to provide a way out for wounded and a way in for reinforcements.
C: In Verdant Brink alone we see a major gathering point for Pact survivors which is fortified during that first day, holds out during the night and assumably only grows stronger in manpower and security as time goes on (It resets only because of the timelocked maps stuff).
D: Auric Basin and Tangled depths we see some order/Pact activity (I’ve not done as much in those maps myself). However in Dragon’s stand there is another major Pact field fort setup, and the Pact sends forces down the lanes to fight Mordremoth.

I fail to see how the Pact is gone. Their main air fleet is, but not the Pact itself.

edit: Unless that line is a hilarious reference to the fact after Verdant Brink, the commander does basically nothing related to their actual job, which is (until a new Marshall is made), being the main leader of the Pact.

I think the PC is being realistic.

Is the Pact completely destroyed? Of course not.

However, could it be at the point where it’s not feasible that it’s going to recover anytime soon? Definitely. Trahearne said in Season 2 that the Pact still hadn’t recovered from the fight against Zhaitan, and the number of NPCs from the personal story that we meet (or who died offscreen) in the jungle suggests that what was left in Orr was pretty much a token holding force and the majority of the Pact was with the fleet. The garrisons that the Pact has elsewhere are continuing to hold their own, and the survivors of the fleet were able to rally and even go on the offensive… but if the Mordrem continue to remain a threat that needs to be contained as the Risen did, then I think that taps out the resources the Pact has left. If another dragon starts going on the offensive like Zhaitan and Mordremoth did, the Pact just doesn’t have the spare capacity to deal with it – so from the point of view of being able to achieve its main objective, the Pact is gone.

In fact, I could see this being the plot point that ArenaNet goes with into the future. The dragons may not be becoming successively more powerful, but if Tyria’s ability to resist a dragon is being continuously worn down, they don’t need to be more powerful to be a greater threat (particularly as each dragon has a different weakness, and finding the next dragon’s weakness may not come in a flash of inspiration like Mordremoth’s). And as that happens, it becomes more and more important to resolve some of the other conflicts – the force that attacked Mordremoth represented basically the entirety of Tyria’s military capacity that wasn’t tied up on other fronts, so to be able to fight back effectively, we’ll need to start resolving some of those other fronts to free up more forces.

That`s why I thought that we are expandding to other areas to gain more allies, till the whole world tries to fend them off (or the next big thing)

Unfortunatly the whole united Tyria (continent) wasn`t represented that much, aside from some guest characters here and there in the whole ordeal around Mordremoth.
Some came to the Silverwastes to help building , but in the jungle we don`t really find these forces, aside from the generic split Pact Forces (if there were any prominent groups there, I missed them.), which were still split in their orders for some reason (they were able to create a second unified weapon set and symbol but not a unified armor? oh wait… then they would have to give u a way to get them ingame and can`t press us for gems, as they have a new policy… i get off track).
Where are the Seraphs in the jungle? I thought the Queen and Logan offered some.
Did we find any Norn forces? Iron Legion?

Tyrias (continent) forces should be worn out (which is not really reflected, since the main races just offered some assistance and not their full capabilities) now, but that is something that will really happen till the next dragon, when we have to throw everything and their bathsink at the next attack.
(I don`t think we get whole new continents, even though we should. We stay on the continent as long as possible)

There’s only three combat groups of non-Pact central Tyria forces in HoT: The S.C.A.R. lane warband (individuals pulled from Fireheart Rise, part of the Iron Legion), and Lieutenant Francis seen at the entrance of Auric Basin, and then two mercenaries (an asura and a norn) seen wandering through Tarir. Everyone else – sans the nobles – are Pact afaik.

Well a lot of things are holding each Race’s nation from joining the fight against the Elder Dragons. While the small amount of aid we obtained in Mordremoth Arc showed some support we also still see that there are still a lot of internal issues for each race.

Most of the internal issues are mostly from people who thinks the Elder Dragons are not a threat or that the Elder Dragons will never breach their capital city defenses.

Asura issue for not joining is that the Asuran Council strongly believe that they are perfectly safe in their City and are working hard to prevent the information that the Elder Dragons are a threat from spreading in Asuran society.

Norn are still constantly being threatened by Jormag so they are losing people everyday.

Charr has the Ascalonian ghost to deal with and also a good amount of Charr believe that the Elder Dragons are not a threat as was mentioned in the Order Arc if players went Vigil.

Humans are still at a constant internal conflict between the Ministry and the throne. The Ministry want to sieze power but if they gain that power we will lose all human support to fight the Elder Dragons as mentioned in the Pact arc if players went Order of Whisper since they do not believe the Elder Dragons are a threat.

Sylvari are currently the smallest and youngest race of Tyria and are still building their place into Tyria’s society. There situation is now worse that the word is out that the Sylvari are Elder Dragon minions. Even though Mordy is dead I fear this revelation will cause a major trust issue with the Sylvari race since their loyality may come into question though the new story arc in Season 3.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

There’s only three combat groups of non-Pact central Tyria forces in HoT: The S.C.A.R. lane warband (individuals pulled from Fireheart Rise, part of the Iron Legion), and Lieutenant Francis seen at the entrance of Auric Basin, and then two mercenaries (an asura and a norn) seen wandering through Tarir. Everyone else – sans the nobles – are Pact afaik.

I don’t know where we meet Francis beforehand, but he comments on the fact he has fully joined the pact and left the Seraph.

Human commoner storyline. He’s situated in the open world Queensdale for that storyline and was the one who defended the building you didn’t (orphanage or hospital).

He might only have that dialogue for human commoners because he doesn’t say that to my charr or sylvari or any other character I took through there.

Odd that he would retain his original rank, given how the Pact doesn’t have lieutenants.

That because the Pact allows the members to maintain their rank from the organization they come from. The Pact only place their own rank on members as a separate rank to identify their position in the Pact.

We see this a lot with the Order members in the Pact as they keep their Rank in their Order and their promotion within their order still handled by the Order they are from. For example, if you’re a Priory member some members within the Priory still call you as Magister in their dialogue rather than commander mostly by Priory members who are not part of the Pact.

If he left the Seraph, he would no longer be a lieutenant.

And in the Orr arcs, all Pact members (and not those who decided to join the Pact’s efforts) utilize the Orders’ ranks. Corporal Beirnes? No. Tactician Beirnes. Deborah? Now a crusader. Sergeant Ellye? Now a Crusader. Lionguard Apatia? Now a Crusader.

Like I said their rank title comes from their organization not from their position in the Pact. Beirnes is no longer Corpral Beirness because he is a member of the Vigil during the Zhaitan Arc.

During the Zhaitan Arc the only military support the Pact had was from the Orders which during that time the members could only become involved with the battle against Elder Dragons by joining one of the three Orders which each of them did thus giving them the rank of the Order they joined. By joining the order their rank is changed to the Order’s Ranking system.

During Mordremoth Arc the pact has expanded beyond the 3 Orders and is now obtaining recuits from outside the Orders. So members no longer have to join one of the three Orders to become officially part of the Pact thus why they can keep their former military rank since outside the duty of the Pact they are not part of the Orders.

And like I said – Francis, according to Kalavier, left the Seraph.

In other words, he has no organization, no military order to which he belongs.

Except the Pact.

Yet he is called Lieutenant.

Also, even in the Zhaitan Arc, individuals worked for/with the Pact without joining the Orders. The Gear Warband, for example, during the Vigil invasion arc, or the asura from Statics or Priestess Rhie during Cathedral of Silence, and dozens more. Even among the Pale Reavers, there are wardens – not members of the Orders, but wardens.

I see we are in one of those situations where we will have a hard time getting a point between each other so I’ll make one final comment….

It will also depend on the type of military they are from. In the military people who retire from active service keep their rank. A retired General will always be considered a General in the military even though he has retired from his position within that organization.

Since Francis did not join one of the Orders he did not transcend into the Order’s Rank system so his Rank is identified by his last known organization being the Seraph.

The Pact it self is not what we can call a individual organization but more of a contract between different organizations to fight against a common enemy. Think of the Pact as the United Nation of GW2.

Hello everybody, I’m sorry if I’m carrying on with this thread, but I wasn’t sure where exactly to put my ideas about the future of the story.

So… I personally think that what we have seen so far in HOT is only half of Modremoth’s story. There are several things that point to this, and if you remember, the scenes with Canach and Faolain are missing from the LW2 trailer, and Malick is also missing.

I know you’ll say that Faolain died, but I’m not so sure:

1. Do you remember, in the trailer, when Faolain impales the soldier? If you look carefully, Faolain has a briar branch behind her back. I think it’s the branch that Eir threw back at at her. In addition, if you look at her face, she looks almost unconscious, maybe because she was stabbed by Vinetooth.

2. As soon as you finish “Hearts and Minds”, if you go and talk to Canach, he says that he’s going to DR. We’ll probably see what we saw in trailer, that is, Canach defending himself from soldiers.

3. Anet said in an interview that the sylvari can be cloned, and, in the same interview, it was said that the NC would have an important role (which never seems to have materialized).

4. The corrupt Faolain….well, personally, I think that this is actually a Vinetooth in disguise, trying to trap us. In fact, Modremoth’s last words don’t seem to me the words of someone defeated forever. Or am I wrong?

5. If the trailer isn’t an accurate representation of the story, why doesn’t Anet say anything about it? And why is the trailer still visible when you finish “The Mystery Cave”? I’d think that this points to some truth in the trailer.

I’d like to conclude with some thoughts about what might happen in LW3

• Canach will be attacked in DR

• Modremoth will be reborn from Glint’s egg

• We’ll find a pact which is fighting against the NC and Faolain

• We’ll find the Tengu village

• We’ll find Malick’s tree

• Malick will be corrupt (probably wearing a ‘Harbinger of Modremoth’ outfit)

• Faolain and the NC will help us

• We’ll see a real battle with Modremoth (the dragon, rather than the obese-crocodile-version)

• The White Mantle-themed raids will continue.

O maybe LW3 will just be a boring story full of plot holes you could fly a plane through, featuring only the untouchable 5: Marjory, Braham, Rox, Barbie and Vanellope.

Uh… you need to play or replay the story. Cuz Faolain dies. She is killed and her corpse taken away by the Vinetooth before it assaults Eir. Where it is then carved into the Vinetooth-Faolain hybrid that is Mordremoth's champion.

Anet said in an interview that the sylvari can be cloned

That’s only talking about the three mordrem guard commanders. The three we fight repeatedly in the Dragon’s Stand meta.

In fact, Modremoth’s last words don’t seem to me the words of someone defeated forever. Or am I wrong?

“What have you done?” is the words of someone not defeated forever?

We’ll see a real battle with Modremoth (the dragon, rather than the obese-crocodile-version)

Dragon’s Stand meta is the “real battle with Mordremoth”. The Mouth of Mordremoth is Mordremoth’s physical body.