Scarlet Factions

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Posted by: ThiBash.5634

ThiBash.5634

Q:

Ok, so Scarlet got unlikely allies working together in pairs. But how did she manage to have them work together with the other factions as well? How come the dredge, flame legion, pirates, inquest, nightmare court and krait work together? The only ones I can find an explanation for are the watchknights…because they have no say in it.

If you can read this then it is proof that ArenaNet’s moderators just, kind and fair.

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Posted by: ThiBash.5634

ThiBash.5634

A:

So it basically comes down to this: we don’t know why Scarlet’s 3 factions work together.

If you can read this then it is proof that ArenaNet’s moderators just, kind and fair.

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Posted by: phaneo.4597

phaneo.4597

My assumptions:
- Mind control,
- She still got these groups by their balls with the promises of power & tech,
- What/whoever is behind Scarlet, all these groups know about his/her/its existence and decided to play along rather than be wiped out. Basically sandwiched between choosing death from the Tyrian heroes (or victory over them if successful) and this mysterious being.

KNOW YOUR ROLE, JABRONI!
Tee See

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Posted by: FlamingFoxx.1305

FlamingFoxx.1305

I think at this point they’re all just probably very aware that they can easily destroy Lions Arch if they humour her.

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Posted by: Erukk.1408

Erukk.1408

I think at this point they’re all just probably very aware that they can easily destroy Lions Arch if they humour her.

I’m thinking of something along these lines as well. Even if they hate following Scarlet’s orders, all the factions of the different alliances hold no love for Lion’s Arch, and they would be more than happy to destroy it.

Though I have to say, Scarlet seems to like to keep them separate most of the time. The might show up on the same battlefield nowadays, but it’s always in their separate groups. It’s always either a wave of MA, Aether, TA, or watchwork. Never really a mixed wave of them.

Another question to ask about them, is what’s going to happen to all of Scarlet’s alliances once she’s finally gone? She seems to be the only thing really keeping them together. But as much as the different members of the alliances hate each other, they did both get something out of it in the end.

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Posted by: FlamingFoxx.1305

FlamingFoxx.1305

Actually during the Marionette we did have all of them attacking – like yes they were in waves, but they were still all in the same place for the same thing.

I imagine we’ll see the alliances continue after she’s gone. It would be odd for the writers to do all the set up and then not really go any further with it.

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Posted by: Aaron Ansari.1604

Aaron Ansari.1604

As much as I think my Grizwhirl idea would’ve been better, the Study in Scarlet instance made it pretty clear that the answer is simply that she made all these various groups believe they stand to gain from her plot.

R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

  • With the Flame Legion and dredge, she went to each faction saying she got the other working with her already and offered said others’ technology/magic – Flame Legion wanted technology to gain an upper hand, and the dredge wanted flame magic for the same reason. Scarlet went to them saying “hey, I got what you want via this group, come join me” to both groups.
  • Inquest she worked with, so I presume she used her old contacts being a “special consultant” – no real explanation given that I’ve seen though.
  • With the pirates, all we really get is “work for me or I’ll kill you” and promises of looting.
  • Watchknights she hijacked – she was capable of doing such because they’re based off of Steam creature technology and she is somehow related to them (be it reverse engineering or actually tied to them somehow).
  • The Nightmare Court is never explained, as far as I know. We know she worked out some sort of deal to get access to Twilight Arbor – said deal later turning out to be the Toxic Alliance, I believe.
  • The krait she seemingly threatened using the obelisk shards – “work for me, you get these; don’t work for me, you’ll never get them”. Hard to believe, but if they care enough for the sacredness of the shards it can work.

How does she retain their affiliation? Good question. But overall, as Aaron said, she somehow tricked them into believing that they gain from working for her.

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

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Posted by: Aaron Ansari.1604

Aaron Ansari.1604

As far as the Nightmare Court go, the explanation the NPCs have put forward is “Scarlet gave them a chance to spread suffering”. The least satisfying of the lot, really, especially seeing as their the only group to actually clear space in one of their bases so she could build a bloody factory, but I don’t expect we’ll see anything better forthcoming.

R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.

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Posted by: Kalarchis.8635

Kalarchis.8635

My assumption is that they’ve come to realize that they have considerably more power and influence working together with Scarlet than they ever had alone. All of these factions want to control the world in some way and none of them have been successful on their own. Working together under Scarlet, however, they clearly have a better chance at defeating their primary obstacle: us.

The enemy of my enemy…

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Posted by: Erukk.1408

Erukk.1408

The enemy of my enemy…

…is still my enemy.

I wouldn’t be all that surprised when/if Scarlet gets what she wants, she betrays all those alliances and turns on them. They are simply a means to an end for her after all. She already got what she wanted from them. Scarlet’s only using them for grunt work and cannon fodder now.

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Posted by: ElysianEternity.6215

ElysianEternity.6215

-sigh-

Reading this thread REALLY makes me hope that the alliances aren’t just gonna be dumped and return to normal as if nothing ever happened as soon as Scarlet goes down.

I’d love to see some named new enemy-leaders who try to keep each faction together appear after Scarlet dies. Or at least some consequences which also can play into other events (example Dredge Revolution and Molten Alliance conflicting).
They seriously need to be given some substance.

All of the alliances listed rely on varying degrees of suspension of disbelief, ranging from Inquest ok makes some sense over Flame legion and Nightmare court renegade faction really?? to wth threatening pirates and /blackmailing krait/ whathappenedtobeingsilvertongued.
So I’m also harboring small hopes that the forming of the alliances will be explained more in-depth in the future because the given explanations are very bare-bone or as example with the steam creatures-twisted watchwork connection, complete voodoo shark at the moment.

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Posted by: Erukk.1408

Erukk.1408

Well, I wouldn’t totally mind if most of the alliances went away, but all I want to see is something come out of it… mainly some future named major/minor characters.

Evil Toxic alchemist for hire…

Disillusioned krait fanatic…

Molten brawler mercenary…

etc.

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Posted by: ElysianEternity.6215

ElysianEternity.6215

@Erukk
Yeah exactly what I meant. Consequences. We need things to happen.

What I don’t want is every faction to go home and continue their usual evilness in their corners without anything coming out of it as if the alliances never existed. If Tyria evolves, so should the enemy-factions/races P:

(And I need a toxic hypnoss for hire to pose as mini to go with my currently bugged mini toxic nimross- wait what)

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Posted by: Narcemus.1348

Narcemus.1348

I was personally hoping that the alliances would break down and we would see some of the results from that, perhaps even while Scarlet is still around. That way as we are destroying her everything that she has worked to build is falling apart, sort of the complete and total destruction route.

I had thought of a few scenarios that would make sense coming from these alliances (specifically Toxic alliance because they made the least sense to me). One such scenario had the krait starting a civil war between factions of the Oratuss, those that had allowed them to be duped by Scarlet and those who wish to return them to their absolute roots of pure evil, perhaps even specifically targeting the Nightmare Court as a enemy.

In my mind, it could make sense for the Aetherblades and the Inquest to stay together. I mean, the inquest pay them to assault areas in order to receive goods/discoveries, or even have the Aetherblades run tests for them on areas of the map for pay. I can’t think of a reason for these two to separate as long as there is profit to be made for both.

As for the Molten Alliance, it will probably depend on how the other factions of dredge and flame legion think about them. We haven’t really seen any interaction between molten alliance and flame legion or moletariate dredge or rebel dredge, there could be any number of scenarios happening between all of those groups.

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

One interesting thing to consider:

The krait and Nightmare Court have never been east of the Shiverpeaks.

The Flame Legion and – sans one wiped out colony – dredge have never been west of the Shiverpeaks.

The Toxic Alliance and Molten Alliance are of groups that never met each other… how do you think the krait ideologies (enslave everyone under the rule of their Prophets) and the Flame Legion ideologies (enslave everyone under the rule of their gods) would react when met?

I could see the two forming an alliance of their own – perhaps enslaving the NC/dredge as the Flame Legion already intended to enslave the dredge – once Scarlet dies.

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

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Posted by: Narcemus.1348

Narcemus.1348

Well, they did meet in some instances of the Marionette event, although I’ll give it to ya that they probably didn’t have much time to talk. Still, it would be hard for me to believe that their egos would allow them to see each other as equals…

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Posted by: Shiren.9532

Shiren.9532

  • With the Flame Legion and dredge, she went to each faction saying she got the other working with her already and offered said others’ technology/magic – Flame Legion wanted technology to gain an upper hand, and the dredge wanted flame magic for the same reason. Scarlet went to them saying “hey, I got what you want via this group, come join me” to both groups.
  • Inquest she worked with, so I presume she used her old contacts being a “special consultant” – no real explanation given that I’ve seen though.
  • With the pirates, all we really get is “work for me or I’ll kill you” and promises of looting.
  • Watchknights she hijacked – she was capable of doing such because they’re based off of Steam creature technology and she is somehow related to them (be it reverse engineering or actually tied to them somehow).
  • The Nightmare Court is never explained, as far as I know. We know she worked out some sort of deal to get access to Twilight Arbor – said deal later turning out to be the Toxic Alliance, I believe.
  • The krait she seemingly threatened using the obelisk shards – “work for me, you get these; don’t work for me, you’ll never get them”. Hard to believe, but if they care enough for the sacredness of the shards it can work.

How does she retain their affiliation? Good question. But overall, as Aaron said, she somehow tricked them into believing that they gain from working for her.

I get all that and while I think almost all of it is flimsy and shallow (I’ve seen most of these points from Angel, Scott or someone else from the writing team) I can understand why someone would think this is a worthwhile explanation.

Compare all those alliances to how the formation of the Pact was handled. The three Orders already have a history of team work an inclusion. The story of Tyria in GW2 is very much about the five major races coming together to utilise each other’s strength to take on a common threat. Even before the Pact the three Orders are made up of the five major races (and others). On top of that, the three Orders share a common goal – to take on the threat of the Elder Dragons (arguably they wanted different things – Vigil wanted to kill, I think one of the others didn’t think the Elder Dragons could be killed only subdued etc) but it’s all in the same ballpark. Despite a shared goal and a demonstrated ability to overcome racial prejudices, forming the Pact and getting the three Orders to work together was a big deal and it took a considerable amount of diplomacy and imminent threats for it to work out. Even when the Pact was formed, the higher level zones of Tyria and Personal Story missions commonly recognise the mistrust or disdain or impatience brought on by three orders working together.

Compare and contrast that with how Scarlet’s alliances are formed. We never see any of Scarlet’s diplomatic skills, we rarely see the characterisation of these alliances recognise how mismatched they are (I think the prison scene post Flame and Frost was one of the only notable examples), hell the alliances barely have any personality or individual goals at all. Before the Living Story these factions had distinct histories, personalities and motivations. Very little of that is recognised in the story and it always seems to be trumped by Scarlet’s objectives. I feel like having these factions be part of Scarlet’s alliances and the way they were handled, it’s a betrayal of their identities and the world that was built prior to Scarlet’s creation.

Apparently the writers thought up identities for the leaders of the Flame Legion faction involved with Scarlet but that was never included in the releases. That’s a big mistake imo. The story of these alliances is very important for us to believe they would be doing what it is Scarlet wants them to do (especially if it would be contentious with established lore), having leaders in the story would have helped explain they are only splinter groups (given their demonstrated numbers, even that’s hard to swallow) and that faction’s role and motivations in the story.

I think the story only focused on the races for their shallow utility value – either their superficial technology contributions or their use as an army (like the krait invading from the sea). It’s especially strange when Scarlet’s motives and plan weren’t supposed to be revealed until now, that left a lot of room for the story to focus on and flesh out these factions. Maybe the first year of the story would have been a lot better if the alliances had been convincing in their characterisation as an alliance, if they had distinct goals we could see them working towards, named leaders to carry their story.

A lot of players still don’t even know where the Aetherblades come from to the point where players are theorising they are from the Mists or a future time line.

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Posted by: ElysianEternity.6215

ElysianEternity.6215

One interesting thing to consider:

The krait and Nightmare Court have never been east of the Shiverpeaks.

The Flame Legion and – sans one wiped out colony – dredge have never been west of the Shiverpeaks.

The Toxic Alliance and Molten Alliance are of groups that never met each other… how do you think the krait ideologies (enslave everyone under the rule of their Prophets) and the Flame Legion ideologies (enslave everyone under the rule of their gods) would react when met?

I could see the two forming an alliance of their own – perhaps enslaving the NC/dredge as the Flame Legion already intended to enslave the dredge – once Scarlet dies.

Oh no it’s the Slavers’n’Slaves Alliance. Gotta enslave ’em all!

And it’s an interesting thought, though to me it’s more likely that the Krait and Flame legion would fall into battle and try to make the other faction part of their little slave army as well. Can’t see them tolerating other religions. My Prophets vs your Gods.

Next in our Living Story – Flame and Water! The clash of Tyria’s fanatic zealot factions! Cooking gets boosted to 500 so the other races can make themselves Pop Corn as they watch the clash of the extremes.

But nah. That brings me to another cool thought.
Gaheron tried to ascend to godhood by magical means and we stopped him in the nick of time. (Whether he really would be a God is another question)

What if the krait found out about the method the Flame legion used and tried to make a ‘real’ prophet on their own? After all, their prophets are ascended krait and they’re not low on the magical capacity to make it possible.

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Posted by: Fomivee.3065

Fomivee.3065

Wasn’t it stated in Dead End instance? She’s paying them. Mostly – not in money but other stuff.

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Posted by: CureForLiving.5360

CureForLiving.5360

-sigh-

Reading this thread REALLY makes me hope that the alliances aren’t just gonna be dumped and return to normal as if nothing ever happened as soon as Scarlet goes down.

Same here. Would be nice to have a contingent of Molten Charr rejoin the flame legion, or some Molten Dredge decide that they want to run the show now. Since the pirates have always been an ecliptic lot I don’t see why the Aetherblades can’t continue as well, after all Aetherblades are just pirates with fancy Inquest weapons and although you’ve destroyed a number of them (wait how many of their airships have we destroyed?) they should still be sufficiently armed to continue pirating the skies. Krate and Nightmare court however… not sure, but I would like to see the Hybrid return.

At the very least what ANet could do is create a few more permanent dynamic events (something I’ve been going on about for a while now) in the world (if they don’t feel like giving us a proper epilogue), show us what these factions are doing after Scarlets inevitable fall.

The Toxic Alliance and Molten Alliance are of groups that never met each other… how do you think the krait ideologies (enslave everyone under the rule of their Prophets) and the Flame Legion ideologies (enslave everyone under the rule of their gods) would react when met?

This was what I was hoping the Living World would be, seeing how factions interact, grow, make war, make friendship etc.

Compare and contrast that with how Scarlet’s alliances are formed. We never see any of Scarlet’s diplomatic skills, we rarely see the characterisation of these alliances recognise how mismatched they are (I think the prison scene post Flame and Frost was one of the only notable examples), hell the alliances barely have any personality or individual goals at all. Before the Living Story these factions had distinct histories, personalities and motivations. Very little of that is recognised in the story and it always seems to be trumped by Scarlet’s objectives. I feel like having these factions be part of Scarlet’s alliances and the way they were handled, it’s a betrayal of their identities and the world that was built prior to Scarlet’s creation.

Story telling was probably one of the weaker aspects of Living Story Season 1, sure it’s nice that they tell us out of game why these factions got together but it would have been significantly better to see them get together in game. Maybe we in the build up to say Flame and Frost we see the Flame Legion and Dredge have secret meetings, or better yet we as players (thanks to how awesome we are at killing dredge and flame legion) push them into a corner forcing them to create an alliance.
However on the other hand I do see ANet putting a bit more effort into their story, so many be Season 2…

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Posted by: Kalavier.1097

Kalavier.1097

According to a Q&A I just read, the factions are all working with her because they are in it for the endgame reward

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Posted by: Narcemus.1348

Narcemus.1348

According to a Q&A I just read, the factions are all working with her because they are in it for the endgame reward

Oh great… They’re grinding for meta-achievement rewards too? lol