Guild Wars 2

Scrappers are unruly trash that are so insubordinate within the Legions that they’ve given trash duty, picking up metal and other junk around Ascalon and the Black Citadel. It is not a positive thing and no Charr would ever want to be a scrapper unless they were masochistic or liked being considered garbage. It’s the human equivalent of having a specialization called a “Trash Picker” or “Dumpster Diver”, or it’d be like having an Asura and using a specialization called the word “Bookah.”

Given that the poster character for the Engineer is a Charr I cannot wrap my mind around how this name happened. Either the narrative team wasn’t involved with the naming of the specializations (which I don’t understand), or they’ve forgotten their own lore.

The only excuse I see is that it’s “ironic” and that the scrappers are “rising up” to reclaim their name, but that’s not a good excuse when there could have been dozens of other names that wouldn’t have been internally inconsistent. It also requires rewrites of a ton of dialogue in the Black Citadel and Ascalon.

The question is to what extent are those using the scrapper elite specialization referred to as scrappers in lore/in the story. If the name doesn’t come up, then you could just treat it as ‘mechanics’ instead of lore.

I think they named it Scrapper because they managed to recycle the broken parts of the Pact Fleet when Mordy went ham on them. I really like the name and find it perfectly fitting imo
EDIT: Also, specialization names are nothing but names. For your personal RP, you can call your elementalist an Aeromancer if that’s what you want. Name your Berserker a Brawler if it makes you happy. Or you can just choose that your “Scrapper” is still considered an Engineer. Tbh I plan on calling my Ranger a Warden once Druid is available.

Darmikau.9413:

picking up metal and other junk around Ascalon and the Black Citadel.

yeah, who’d want to go around finding random objects to salvage for raw materi-wait a minute…

in any case, this is no worse than “Druid” (ancient guys who turned themselves into trees) or “Reaper” (grenth’s seven assistants) as far as the lore goes

What Calcifire said, especially the druid. Besides, moving away from the specific charr context, I like it a lot better than Forge. It’s A.) a person and not an object, and B.) fairly witty as such things go, seeing as it might comfortably fit both definitions of the word.

The following was translated form a French interview and offers some more information.

“At First, Scrapper was a Charr insult used against defying, insubordinate, or low cast members. The misfit fighters or the trouble maker were forced to collect scrap and work in scrapyard instead of fighting in the battlefront. But with time, those mechanic turned their punishment into a symbol of honor, turning rusted scrap and broken mechanism into machine and weapons, Inspiring oppressed members of other races to join them and to do the same. Scrappers are the masters of mechanical improvisation. Who care of how a machine look, or what other thinks of you when the work is done? The philosophy of this specialization is to bring to this game a brawler tenacious in close combat and able to weaken his foes.”

link here https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3l6kw0/and_the_french_translation_of_scrapper_is/

I really have my doubts that scrapper as a term of endearment can be made to work. Is it nice in theory? Sure. But this completely isolates all non-Scrapper Charr from taking the mantle of the specialization. If you’re one of the far-more-numerous Charr who aren’t insubordinate you can’t use this specialization without demeaning yourself. There are tons of lines of dialogue by NPCs and in events all across Ascalon that will need to be rewritten to accommodate and account for the change in the meaning of scrapper. This is all assuming the Legions would recognize the name; because they mostly likely wouldn’t. And if they did, they would simply call scrappers by a new name, and that also has to be written into the game.

Here’s the thing, using the identifier ‘scrapper’ as a term of endearment has two issues. One, it’s not actually an insult, it’s a job. The “derisive” nature of the term isn’t because being a scrapper is implicitly bad (in fact, scrappers are a necessary part of the Legion), but because it happens to be on the lower rung of society. Scrappers aren’t oppressed any more than someone is oppressed for being suspended from school or sent to jail as a punishment, because it’s for an action they committed and not some inherent trait of their character. Scrappers aren’t oppressed any more than someone who works a blue collar job like construction or waste management are oppressed. So to say you’re proud to be a scrapper is like saying you’re proud to be a blue collar worker. It’s perfectly acceptable and it’d be crass to deride it, but it doesn’t change that fact that blue collar jobs have negative stigmas associated with them just by the nature of the work. Scrappers aren’t universally bad, oppressed members of society, they’re unruly members of the Legions who are looked down upon without consideration for their merits, just like garbage men aren’t bad or oppressed people, but they’re still looked down on (usually unfairly) because most people don’t want to pick up trash for a living.

Which leads to the other problem, the idea that anyone, especially Charr, would show solidarity with using the term as a means of empowerment. Saying “scrappers should unite and take pride in their name” sounds inspiring, but in the context of a consistent narrative it’s so insistently based in social progressivism/justice that it almost makes me gag. The reality is that very few Charr, if any, would ever identify with being proud to be a scrapper. Most Charr are organized, orderly, and obedient. A scrapper that’s actually proud to be a scrapper would be a cause for disgust even in a Charr who’s otherwise indifferent. It takes normal citizens who think of scrappers as a low-ranking but unavoidable part of their culture, who otherwise don’t care, and makes them ask “why would you be proud to be a scrapper?” Again, in this context it’s like someone being proud to be a criminal. Everyone would say “that’s not something to be proud of” and most people would agree because being a criminal is morally objectionable. In Charr society being a scrapper is morally objectionable. I guarantee most, if not all Charr who are assigned scrapper duty don’t actually want to be there, and even fewer still would actually take pride in it, because it goes entirely against what it means to be a Charr. To say that Scrappers should be proud of themselves is a fundamental misunderstanding of Charr culture, and is more a fantasy of empowering a seemingly oppressed minority than actually understanding the context of the lore and culture. So it’s something that’s happened not because it makes sense, but because it flexes progressive muscles. The culture of the scrapper within the Charr shows a fundamental understanding of the way systems of social hierarchies work. Using the scrapper as a source of empowerment is an individualistic ideology that doesn’t apply to a broader culture and fails to understand how systems as complex as societies work.

Well if that cheers you up, the german name is “Schrotter”. That’s not even a word. I guess it’s supposed to be short for “Verschrotter” which would be a guy working at a junkyard. That sounds even less heroic than Scrapper in my opinion.

Darmikau.9413:

Scrappers are unruly trash that are so insubordinate within the Legions that they’ve given trash duty, picking up metal and other junk around Ascalon and the Black Citadel. It is not a positive thing and no Charr would ever want to be a scrapper unless they were masochistic or liked being considered garbage. It’s the human equivalent of having a specialization called a “Trash Picker” or “Dumpster Diver”, or it’d be like having an Asura and using a specialization called the word “Bookah.”

Given that the poster character for the Engineer is a Charr I cannot wrap my mind around how this name happened. Either the narrative team wasn’t involved with the naming of the specializations (which I don’t understand), or they’ve forgotten their own lore.

The only excuse I see is that it’s “ironic” and that the scrappers are “rising up” to reclaim their name, but that’s not a good excuse when there could have been dozens of other names that wouldn’t have been internally inconsistent. It also requires rewrites of a ton of dialogue in the Black Citadel and Ascalon.

It’s not a really big issue, though. History knows many examples when same word have pretty bad meaning in one culture and neutral or even positive in others.
http://mentalfloss.com/article/31168/11-product-names-mean-unfortunate-things-other-languages
Also
total offtopic6, not 2
total offtopicBaelfire example is irrelevant

Cringeworthy. Whoever decided on the elite specialisation’s names needs to have a talk with the narrative team. It feels like they fail to communicate and thus go with whatever sounds “familiar” without ever checking what the terms actually mean.

Like Calcifire already mentioned, they did this with “Druids” and “Reapers” despite what the lore previously stated. Did they offer an explanation for those?

Also, the snippet of lore behind the change only makes sense, if someone outside of the legion society finds the term endearing and uses it.
The pact could have adopted the term as a nicname to troll get on the bad side of their charr engineers.
The more I think about this, the more it seem like the term developed outside of ascalon and is used to describe tinkerers, but then it got popular and is annoying the kitten out of all the lawful and obedient charr engineers, who like to use hammers.

To use an analogy:
It is like “Berliner Ballen” which are called “Bolas de Berlim” even in Portugal, but the people of Berlin call them Pfannkuchen, no matter what the world and even their fellow germans call them.

This makes more sense, than the given explanation. Charrikayu did a good explanation on that one. Charr society can be likened to a degree to wilhelminic Germany, where in spite of their beliefs in technological progress, the people’s attitudes towards social mores remained conservative and extraordinarily prestige oriented.

Back to Tyria.

I think a good way to make a tinkering charr engineer to decorate your face with his wrench is repeatedly calling him a scrapper.
As if there aren’t enough good terms you can call the class. How about “Machinist”, or “Repairman”, “Sapper”, “Metalworker”, even “tinker” would fit.
The Charr would likely end up adressing the makeshift mechanics as one of the above, while the rest of the world gets to push the Charr’s buttons.

I forsee dialogues such as this:
Pact Officer:" You’re one of the new Scrappers? We need you to salvage what is left of the ship."
Charr “Scrapper”:" I am NOT a scrapper! What is it with you mice to always assume the worst about people?"
Pact Officer:" But you fit the job description. You’re one of the people we need to get ourselvelves back into the air!
Charr “Scrapper”:" Look, I can get your machines running, and I can hold my own in a fight, but call me Scrapper one more time and I’ll push you into the gearbox!"

To add insult to injury, Charr born and grown up in Lion’s Arch would likely have little to no objections to being called Scrapper.

Probably it is what these scrappers have achieved in their live made their title remembered and honored?

The thing is that it is harder maybe for players to relate to the name, especially if they have high rank character, given the brief description of the elite specs. It made it seems like limited to these “oppressed” people.

I wonder why anet stopped posting the background lore as they did during living stories. I hope they will release the narrative stories behind elite specs after HoT is released!

The elite specializations, at least to me aren’t necessarily supposed to be a ‘new profession’. Berserkers are still Warriors, Tempests are still Elementalists and Scrappers will still be Engineers.

What changes is what their focus or theme will be tailored towards, I don’t think NPCs will refer to you as the Scrapper but an Engineer who has focused down a certain line of your profession.

WoodenPotatoes did a lore explanation of the Scrapper recently. Basically Scrappers are the dirty and bottom of Charr Society (or those cast into it). They are considered workers to be tossed at the worst jobs.

Scrapper is also used for people who fist fight, melee brawlers, etc. Does not have to have anything to do with scrap metal.

As far as anet’s choice to use scrapper instead of something like brawler, probably does have to do with engineers building things from anything, as well as the melee brawling, I mean, they get hammers……

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/scrapper
a fighter or aggressive competitor, especially one always ready or eager for a fight, argument, or contest:

Eirdyne.9843:

WoodenPotatoes did a lore explanation of the Scrapper recently. Basically Scrappers are the dirty and bottom of Charr Society (or those cast into it). They are considered workers to be tossed at the worst jobs.

Worse is a subjective term. What other job could be worse than practically leaping into the jaws of an elder dragon to face down their minions on an unpredictable battleground?

Now before you go jumping to shove motivation down my Charr’s throat, work is work. Some jobs have to be done and whether it’s a task “below you” isn’t relevant when your expertise is building combat tools and weapons out of junk, which is what Engineers in GW2 do. I’d find it less dignifying for an Engineer not to jump at this task of pulling together the shambles that is the Pact one scrap at a time just because they value a useless title over getting the job done efficiently.

And let’s not forget the influence of other races. All 5 are working together now which means a blend of culture as well. I can see it now:

Norn Engineer: This pile of mess will take weeks to sift through.
Asura Engineer: If I had more golems, we can divide the work more efficiently.
Charr Engineer: Can’t we just make some golems then? Just use these parts…
Norn Engineer: …and this part and…~sigh~ my beard, we’ve only got 1 gyroscopic stabilizer…
Asura Engineer: Just keep picking through this junk and we’ll find more.
Charr Engineer: ~growl~ like scrapper’s work smashes a totaled airship engine with a sledge hammer
Asura Engineer: Scrapper?
Charr Engineer: Yeah, they’re the lowest rung on the military ladder. Practically on permanent junk detail.
Norn Engineer: …scrapper…I like it! Makes me want to swing a hammer too!
Asura Engineer: Perhaps, but even my scraps will result in technological masterpieces to marvel imagination.
Norn Engineer: Hey Scrapper, throw me that hammer!
Charr Engineer: ~growls~

Basically, what the term means to a Charr and what it means to the Pact can be two things. That’s isn’t necessarily a bad thing as normal language does that! What you’re pointing out is just an interesting quirk that likely brings more lore to light than it does dismantle it.

Leo G, that was …well, pretty good actually

Although the term “Scrapper” can be subjective in meaning to the other races, it is categorically negative to the Charr…or is it? I think I have a way it could be seen as a good title to be proud of.

Its said the Scrapper uses that name for the specialization as a “badge of honor”, which is probably related to the fact the specialization comes from Engineers salvaging the fact fleet to make Gyros and other weaponry.

Many of the Charr in the fleet aren’t pact soldiers. A lot are Legion Charr who Smodur The Unflinching pledged as his way of aiding the movement against Mordremoth. Considering many of those Charr died in the fleet crash, theres bound to be more than a few who are now Gladiums or their Warband size has been greatly dimished, with the Centurions/Legionnaires among them placing the survivors on Scrapper Duty to build up supplies and weaponry. Considering Charr are a resourceful bunch, they’ve probably shrugged it off and got to work on making useful things from the wreckage.

If I went down in an airship crash, lived it, had the strength to bottle up half my warband being dead, and still had it in me to salvage materials as a “scrapper”, while fending off plant-monsters, i’d be happy to see that as a “badge of honor”.

Well it was gonna be “forge” but I think “forgemaster” would be better. Give the engineer a broadsword and call him “sunderer” makes sense too. Although there already are blacksmith/swordmaker npcs around.

Or maybe the Charr can reference the events that went down during the assault on Magumma Jungle as a means to making the typical Scrapper mean something different.

Scrapper can still be symbolic of the ‘grunt work’ however if the context shifted to a Scrapper that came from the Magumma Jungle assault, it has an entirely different meaning. A Charr Engineer going out into the environment where even the plants attempt to kill you to gather scraps to stay alive? A bit more respectable than the typical scrapper.

Could even lead into some funny lines:

Charr 1: What’s with that engineer over there? Looks like she paid a visit to Rata Sum and brought back junk.
Charr 2: Looks like a Scrapper to me.
Charr 1: ~growl~ Of course she is, no respectable Charr would be caught dead with that get-up.
Charr 2: No you dolt! She’s a Scrapper from Magumma! The action she’s seen would make you look like a pup!

…Alright turns out its hard to come up with funny lines. But you catch my drift.

Should have thrown in a line about looking like a Dredge made Windersday tree or something.