Guild Wars 2

I’d just like to applaud the Guild Wars team for making homosexual couples so…how do I put this…normal sounds wrong, because of course it’s normal…but like… it’s no big thing…wouldn’t look twice because it’s how it should be…does that sound right?

It wasn’t extremely obvious or stereotypically flamboyant. It just was. That’s how it should be. I was pleasantly surprised to see that.

(See Sylvari personal story with the Green Knight) and I really thought that was cool. It blended so seamlessly with everything else like it should be. I hadn’t seen a homosexual couple in a game before.

also one of the biggest characters in the game was in a homosexual relationship. Caithe and Foilain.

It’s great to see games like GW2 accept same sex relationships and incorporate it in their story without making it look like some cheap token.

I just wish we had a major male lore figure turn out to be homosexual to balance things out. Is it too much to hope for Logan to realise Jennah is playing him like a harp and to decide to embrace one of his Seraph soldiers?

sylvari dont have real genders though so it’s not like it counts really.

@Garenthal I don’t know….I’m banking on Logan and Rytlock….the bromance is strong there.

you mean you think they did a nice job about not making a big deal out of same-sex relationships, instead treating them the same way as any heterossexual relationship?

then yes, i agree.

also making one of the main characters lesbian and not making a big deal of it, rather than make her go “LOOK AT ME I’M SO GAY PLEASE LOOK AT ME” as some other writers like to portray homossexuals.

Garenthal.1480:

I just wish we had a major male lore figure turn out to be homosexual to balance things out. Is it too much to hope for Logan to realise Jennah is playing him like a harp and to decide to embrace one of his Seraph soldiers? ;)

Caithe
I have a dumb, skimmed the post and missed the “male” bit. Eh, I don’t see why we need a major male gay character to “balance” things out. I think it’d be far more interesting to see a major transsexual character.

brokenserenity.4638:

sylvari dont have real genders though so it’s not like it counts really.

Yes, they do. And I’d say it does “count,” for whatever it’s supposed to “count” for.

Yeah, I’m glad they exist, and no one cares about them.

I hate oversexualized games (be side A or side B, I don’t care about others’ sexuality), but variety is always welcomed, as long as it doesn’t fall on oversexualization.

castlemanic.3198:

The problem with having homosexual characters in a race that can breed is the issue of war, and how it’s surrounding every race. If more and more people decided they were homosexual, the rate of birth would decrease immensely.

That said, a war effort of breeding children could be made so as to keep each race’s population swelling, that would enable homosexual relations to exist without putting an entire race at risk of extinction.

Homosexuals as portrayed in game (where relationships are portrayed) are still a minority, and I don’t think any race is in such dire straits that it should become a concern. Even so, you give an answer to that problem there. The other races could probably implement something similar to charr’s fahrars to help with such a breeding initiative.

I do want to point out that from what I’ve seen and read recently by Ree about how the sylvari approach love, sex has nothing (or very little) to do with it. They approach love as a mingling of spirits, and as such gender has nothing to do with how they decide who they love. Instead they look at the spirit of the individual and their relationship grows through good old fashioned companionship. I’m not trying to demean the whole “main character homosexual” thing, it’s just more relationship based than sex based.

Yeah, sylvari love is really emotional/romantic and not sexual. To me, that just means they embrace homosexuality more easily without the hang-ups that other races might have about reproduction – sylvari would probably say that if two poeple love each other, why on earth does it matter what gender they are?

It’s an easy to way incorporate homosexuality with minimal controversy – the relationships are presented as totally normal, but we also don’t have a bunch of gay male humans that would get certain imsecure players all offended (see: Dragon Age 2 controversies because a male character dares to express interest in you regardless of your gender). All in all, everybody’s reasonably happy.

I do think my favourite thing about it is that there are no ‘token’ gay characters. That’s almost worse than none – most gay characters in fantasy are defined by their gayness, and little else. Caithe and Faolain (and the other romantic and lovesick sylvari you can hear!) would be interesting regardless of their respective genders.

Curuniel.4830:

\(see: Dragon Age 2 controversies because a male character dares to express interest in you regardless of your gender). All in all, everybody’s reasonably happy.

quick comment on this one. One, it was hilarious that a dragon age 2 developer said ‘deal with it’ to the guy complaining, i would have applauded but since i was sitting on a computer, i would feel ridiculous. Second, a few people are claiming that the character almost forces the relationship on you (i dont know the truth of this, but im continuing as if this were true). While obviously much fewer people would have complained had that character been a female, it’s still something to take note of. Nothing wrong with any kind of relationship, but forcing one on the player is something that bioware should have taken a look at, no matter the gender or sexuality (if they already have.)

I do think my favourite thing about it is that there are no ‘token’ gay characters. That’s almost worse than none – most gay characters in fantasy are defined by their gayness, and little else. Caithe and Faolain (and the other romantic and lovesick sylvari you can hear!) would be interesting regardless of their respective genders.

Something that my girlfriend and I were discussing was the level of relationships defining the characters. In a lot of movies (tv series, books, yada yada), many gay characters only have their sexuality mentioned when it’s in context to the story, otherwise they are always assumed to be straight. Arena Net did a fantastic job of presenting homosexuality without a big giant spotlight going “HERE IT IS, HOMOSEXUAL RIGHT HERE”. What’s more, they introduced it so casually that unless people would have concentrated on it, the type of relationship wouldn’t have been noticed. The team did a great job here.

Second, a few people are claiming that the character almost forces the relationship on you (i dont know the truth of this, but im continuing as if this were true). While obviously much fewer people would have complained had that character been a female, it’s still something to take note of.

See, I have a problem with this (not with you, but with the complainers!). I don’t know if you played DA2, but what happens is basically, Anders says “you’re a good friend, and…maybe more?” And you get a dialogue choice. If you respond positively, it’s a romance option. If you choose the response with the broken heart, end-of-relationship symbol, which basically says “no,” he never mentions it again. No more gayness. No more coming on to you. To me, that is not forcing it on players. That’s a gay guy being openly gay, and then leaving you alone if you’re not interested. Just because he’s one of the easiest and earliest romance options doesn’t make it “forced” on you.

Continuing this aside, Bioware are pretty good at this. One of the greatest subtle moments in Mass Effect 3 is when Lt. Cortez mentions his husband for the first time. It’s just like, “yep, we said husband, moving on.” It’s a really sweet background story, too

Azujax.2703:

brokenserenity.4638:

sylvari dont have real genders though so it’s not like it counts really.

Yes, they do. And I’d say it does “count,” for whatever it’s supposed to “count” for.

As I understand it, gender only counts for reproductive purposes. But the Sylvari don’t reproduce sexually. So gender doesn’t count for them.

How are homosexual relationships presented for the other races ?
Because I haven’t noticed any. Then again, I haven’t been looking, so I can easily miss them.

I know I’ve only played pretty much just sylvari, but from what I’ve seen homosexuality in other races is almost non-existent.

Snoring Sleepwalker.9073:

Azujax.2703:

brokenserenity.4638:

sylvari dont have real genders though so it’s not like it counts really.

Yes, they do. And I’d say it does “count,” for whatever it’s supposed to “count” for.

As I understand it, gender only counts for reproductive purposes. But the Sylvari don’t reproduce sexually. So gender doesn’t count for them.

How are homosexual relationships presented for the other races ?
Because I haven’t noticed any. Then again, I haven’t been looking, so I can easily miss them.

there’s a quote from ree somewhere where she states other races have no particular issues with homossexuality.

and “gender” counts for “what’s inside your pants”, and the sylvaris have gender. so yes, it “counts”.

Gender is mental. It’s how you perceive yourself.
Sex is physical. It’s how your body exists and functions.

Sylvari have both.

It’s really cute how folks take such great pains to expound on their deeply clinical and intuitively empathetic descriptions of the ‘homosexual’ communities.

Actually – it’s annoying. Grow up, people.

It’s okay to say “GAY.” Try it sometime – say “gay” versus “homosexual.” It’s acceptable, appropriate, and appreciated.

Caithe/Faolain story actually touched me, unlike the others. Real tragic romance there

Doesn’t the word gay have another, rather positive meaning as well?

ThiBash.5634:

Doesn’t the word gay have another, rather positive meaning as well?

Happy, though it’s almost never used that way anymore.

Esorono.1039:

ThiBash.5634:

Doesn’t the word gay have another, rather positive meaning as well?

Happy, though it’s almost never used that way anymore.

Depends. Could be under or over-used.

“He’s feelin’ gay gay today.”

Well, in my specific instance I was talking about both female on female and male on male, and while gay isn’t specifically male on male, it usually infers that way, thus I used homosexual to refer to both gay and lesbian.

donavan.7602:

It’s really cute how folks take such great pains to expound on their deeply clinical and intuitively empathetic descriptions of the ‘homosexual’ communities.

Actually – it’s annoying. Grow up, people.

It’s okay to say “GAY.” Try it sometime – say “gay” versus “homosexual.” It’s acceptable, appropriate, and appreciated.

tired of being moderated on other forums for using the term gay because “OH NO SOMEONE MIGHT FIND THAT WORD OFFENSIVE”, so i just don’t use it in forums.

Sarisa.4731:

Gender is mental. It’s how you perceive yourself.
Sex is physical. It’s how your body exists and functions.

Sylvari have both.

no, gender is “are you a boy or a girl?”. if your pants have extra luggage you’re a guy, if they don’t you’re a gal.

it’s not that hard, people.

Snoring Sleepwalker.9073:

As I understand it, gender only counts for reproductive purposes. But the Sylvari don’t reproduce sexually. So gender doesn’t count for them.

Gender is the social construct, which sylvari most definitely have. “Guys” and “girls” dress differently, and sylvari will refer to other sylvari “men” and “women” as “he” or “she.”

Sex is the bilogical/physical differences between males and females. We don’t know a whole lot about sylvari biology apart from it being plant parts magically imitating humans to some degree because magic with more magical magic stuff. Physically, however, they are divided, with some having strictly male parts, and others having strictly female parts. While sylvari don’t reproduce through sexual intercourse, they can take part in it for pleasure, much as humans can with proper protection.

Sylvari have both gender and sex, even though they do not reproduce sexually.

How are homosexual relationships presented for the other races ?
Because I haven’t noticed any. Then again, I haven’t been looking, so I can easily miss them.

I haven’t seen any for Norn or Charr. Asura I haven’t paid a whole lot of attention to (I often have voice acting turned off thanks to Trahearne), and it’s kind of hard to tell for them. As for humans, I’m fairly certain I’ve seen at least one Male/Male human NPC couple around somewhere, but I can’t remember exactly and could just be remembering wrong.

BrunoBRS.5178:

there’s a quote from ree somewhere where she states other races have no particular issues with homossexuality.

I do remember this, from some convention panel of some sort. I feel this could be better portrayed (especially around the various cities’ taverns), but romance isn’t really touched upon a whole bunch in-game.

BrunoBRS.5178:

Sarisa.4731:

Gender is mental. It’s how you perceive yourself.
Sex is physical. It’s how your body exists and functions.

Sylvari have both.

no, gender is “are you a boy or a girl?”. if your pants have extra luggage you’re a guy, if they don’t you’re a gal.

it’s not that hard, people.

I — and progressive society and biology/genetics — reject your gender binary. In an effort not to turn this into a “hurr durr gender isn’t sex” debate I’m just going to leave it at that.

Let’s brake this word so people don’t say foolish things.

Homosexuality -> kitten + Sexual
kitten -> Homosapiens -> Humans
Sexual -> Sex

A Sylvari cannot be homosexual, because it lacks the part from being a human, it might be humanoid looking but they are not humans.

A Sylvari is Unisexual, they can’t reproduce with eachother, they are all born from the Pale Tree.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_sexuality

Sylvari only have feelings for eachother, the same way i love my grandmother a Sylvari will love another Sylvari, but they won’t kiss and have sex like humans.

HERO.2057:

Let’s brake this word so people don’t say foolish things.
Homosexuality -> h(o)m(o) + Sexual
h(o)m(o) -> H(o)m(o) sapiens -> Humans
Sexual -> Sex

Egads! Etymology abuse! Quick, to Wikipedia! (fixed the ’o’s so everyone’s clear we’re not talking about adolescent feline sexuality).

The “h(o)m(o)” part of “H(o)m(o) Sapien” comes from the genus of great ape. This is derived from the Latin word for man, h(o)m(o).

If one were to use this logic, then homosexuality would be the romantic or sexual attraction to humans and the species closely related to them. Obviously, this is not the case.

The “h(o)m(o)” in “homosexuality” comes from a Greek prefix meaning “the same.”

Wikipedia:

The word homosexual is a Greek and Latin hybrid with the first element derived from Greek h(o)m(o)s, ‘same’ (not related to the Latin h(o)m(o), ‘man’, as in H(o)m(o) sapiens), thus connoting sexual acts and affections between members of the same sex…

(Emphasis and dumb filter edits mine).

The more you know. That little fun language exercise aside, to respond to your actual point:

As sylvari have both sex and gender in addition to romantic attractions and interactions, sylvari can indeed be homosexual, heterosexual, bisexual, etc,etc.

Side-note: I have found at least one non-Sylvari gay character, a female Charr NPC, who talks about her rage at the Flame Legion for killing her “mate”.

I’m afraid I can’t remember where she can be found, but she’s by a huge lake in Ascalon somewhere.

Neilos Tyrhanos.5427:

Side-note: I have found at least one non-Sylvari gay character, a female Charr NPC, who talks about her rage at the Flame Legion for killing her “mate”.

I’m afraid I can’t remember where she can be found, but she’s by a huge lake in Ascalon somewhere.

mate is a genderless word. could go either way, unless the mate is specifically referenced as a female.

BrunoBRS.5178:

mate is a genderless word. could go either way, unless the mate is specifically referenced as a female.

The mate is specifically referred to as “she” more than once, if I remember correctly. There’s a few conversation options about it.

The female Norn in the hot springs talks about waiting for her girlfriend when the male Norn talks to her. Girlfriend doesn’t necessarily mean relationship though and she may have just been saying that to shut the male Norn up.

I just found the whole thing grating and uncomfortable, and didn’t find it subtle at all.

CharrGirl.7896:

Caithe/Faolain story actually touched me, unlike the others. Real tragic romance there

I was going to say that’s an awfully dysfunctional relationship to use as an example, but maybe that’s because I haven’t finished Edge of Destiny (chapter 28). By the way my PS blew my mind when I found out Snaff dies… spoiler for me.

Sadly, looking around in the Lore forum, you are bound to find spoilers.

honestly I never really feel like anything is a spoiler when it comes to lore. The way I see lore is it’s an ancient story. I may know the outcome but I don’t know the tale of the journey. Snaff dies you say, well how did that happen! Tell me all about it.

CharrGirl.7896:

Caithe/Faolain story actually touched me, unlike the others. Real tragic romance there

Yes! I’m desperately hoping for a happy ending for these two, but I know a bitter ending is more probable.

Especially since, from what I’ve seen characters say, once you join the Nightmare you are never free from it. It’s like joining the dark side.

Narcemus.1348:

I know I’ve only played pretty much just sylvari, but from what I’ve seen homosexuality in other races is almost non-existent.

There’s a female Charr that mentions her female mate in an area with a water-pumping station.

I’m sure I’ve seen a few human NPCs mention a same sex partner, and definately at least one asuran.

BrunoBRS.5178:

you mean you think they did a nice job about not making a big deal out of same-sex relationships, instead treating them the same way as any heterossexual relationship?

then yes, i agree.

also making one of the main characters lesbian and not making a big deal of it, rather than make her go “LOOK AT ME I’M SO GAY PLEASE LOOK AT ME” as some other writers like to portray homossexuals.

Agreed.

This is something I’ve been wanting to see in a game or TV show for a while (there’s a few books that have managed it already) a gay or lesbian couple who are just there. Not someones big revelatory coming out story with the obligatory friend who takes longer than everyone else to realise they can probably just about live with it. Not the couple where every one of their storylines has to revolve around the fact that they’re gay. Just a couple, like any other, who happen to be the same gender.