Today, Anet released a tweet that reveals the specialization we all knew revenants would have: Glint’s legend.
But what makes me curious is the quote provided with it:
“She was as old as the Shiverpeaks, older than the gods.”
Per Eir in Season 2, Glint was 3,000 years old (“Ancient, wise, powerful. She had the gift of prophecy and the burden of three thousand years of memories.” – said during Return to Camp Resolve story step). This gives a better date gap for when the Six Gods arrived on Tyria (no doubt that second phrase referring to their time on Tyria, and not their actual age). But we already knew that Glint was around before the Six arrived on Tyria – and we already had a rough estimating for when their arrival would have been (though there’s been conflicting evidence for more specific dates).
What interests me more is that first line. This is the first time ever we’re given an indication that the Shiverpeaks weren’t always there. The first time we’ve ever given an indication for when they might have been made.
If Glint was 3,000 years old, then so to would the Shiverpeaks.
Why is this interesting?
Because the jotun and dwarves’ histories are greatly tied to the Shiverpeaks’ existence, but we never had true dates for these histories – the time when jotun ruled the entire Shiverpeaks before their fall, we knew it happened but never when (before the last ED rise? during? after?); the myth of the dwarves’ creation and when the original Great Dwarf fought the Great Destroyer, we knew it happened (or was believed to have happened – details remain obscured by the mists of time), but again never had any indication of the ‘when’.
This gives us an earliest possible date, should this line ring true. So the question becomes: is this line being literal, or allegorical?
Does this spark any thoughts in anyone else?
I think it’s very possible that “old as the Shiverpeaks” might not be literal.
It could also perhaps be that Glint’s 3000 years of memories may only be counting her memories after she was purified, allowing her to be much older. That might be a stretch, though.
My thinking is more or less in line with Crixler- both that this is maybe an ill-considered figurative hype line, and that, since that’s a boring answer, memory may not be the same as lifespan.
From the chronology we’ve pieced together between Edge of Destiny and the Forgotten path of Arah, we’ve been given reason to believe she continued to serve Kralkatorrik for a time after being cleansed. As has frequently been pointed out in the past, said path is also worded to suggest she existed before being Branded- and that there was a point in her history when the, presumably already intelligent being, was subjected to dragon corruption. (We’ve seen any number of examples of corrupted beings seeming to lose capacity to think, but so far no evidence that the reverse is possible. Even seemingly champion-powered creatures, such as the Maw, remained at creature levels of mental capacity.) Why would she continue to serve the being who had done that to her, even after he fell into hibernation, once she regained her own say in the matter?
Unless A.) she willingly subjected herself to the process and B.) the change isn’t actually as horrible to experience as it seems from the outside (both of which, I cede, are possibilities), the simplest answer would seem to be that she couldn’t remember it. That would add some interest to the Forgotten ritual, since we’ve seen dragon minions use memories of their past lives in service of their new masters. Maybe, instead of having some magical restorative, the ritual instead simply wipes the slate clean, purging the entire mind, or at least any parts that had been touched by the corruption.
Of course, it’s not a perfect explanation. It does nothing to address where the “older than the Shiverpeaks” intel could possibly come from, if not Glint (then again, how it would’ve made it from Eir to Glint is an open question anyway- their mutual friendship with Ogden, perhaps?), and to be honest I conceived the line of thought more as a ‘hm, that’s an interesting direction they could go’ than as a ‘this seems the most likely outcome given the current available evidence and knowledge of past trends’.
Incidentally, I dug up the wider context of the quote. I didn’t find it very helpful, but who knows, maybe it’ll help someone decide whether it’s meant literally.
(edited by Aaron Ansari.1604)
In regards to her gaining her independence, I’ve always interpreted it as a matter of corruption resulting in both brainwashing and enslavement – the Forgotten ritual undoes the latter, giving one free will, but not the former; thus intelligent freed minions would have to come to the realization themselves to fight their former masters.
And I didn’t recall that short story having that line. Curious. That leads me to take it more as metaphorical as it comes from the Zephyrites whom have shown to be less than knowledgeable on the matter of the Elder Dragons and Glint – only the masters seem to hold any amount of knowledge on the matter, and the author is unknown.
Yeah I have to side with Crixler too, the line looks more poetic than factual. Especially since it comes from the Zephyrites, a culture known more for mystifying than doing empirical research.
I still hope the reveal some new lore about Glint in the next PoI, or atleast tease something. It feels like ages since we’ve gotten something meaty to sink our teeth into.
Do we know how long Glint served as a champion under Kralkatorrik? If she served under him as his champion/alarm clock for multiple awakenings, it could give enough time and leeway for the Shiverpeaks’ possible creation.
That number is given to us by a living character that is not referencing her sources; it may be just an estimate from Eir, not factual age.
Correct me, cuz probably im wrong:
- the penultimate rise of ED,
{- born of Glint 1672 BE, Shiverpeaks rise close to that date,
{or
{- purfing Glint 1672 BE, Shiverpeaks rise close to that date,
- writing tome of Rubicon
- prior 786 BE gods appear into tyria,
- last awakening of ED [1120-1327 AE],
- Eir told as age of Glint 1328 AE,
now Durmand Priory “estamitation” about rising of ED is “roughly”
every 10 000 years its can look like:
- 1325 AE – 10 000 = 8675 BE penultimate rise of ED then:
1. case:
assuming 3000 years old Glint born in 1672 BE,
that means they were active for at least 7003 years.
Question: did she born when Kralkatorrik was active or sleep?
2. case:
assuming 3000 years of Glint’ freedom since 1672 BE,
estamitating her born date move closer to rise/active/before go to sleep of Kralkattorik.
Now w/o that roughly estamitation of Priory:
-assuming 3000 years old Glint 1672 BE, ED were still active, at least Kralka,
Question: did she born when Kralkatorrik was active or sleep?
-assuming 3000 of freedom for Glint since 1672 BE, it is sure date when which we can tell that ED or at least Kralka were/was sleep.
Question1: did she born when Kralkatorrik was active or sleep?
Question2: was she cleansed when Kralkatoriik was active or sleep?
Question3: who think also that date of born or cleans of Glint or 1672 BE is close to date when Primodous went to sleep, uplifting mass or rocks making mountains called Far Shiverpeaks, that would allow to assume that Jormag was still active covering them with influence, after that Tome of Rubicon is written.
Probably there are endless ways how its can look like, I just threw that what first came up to my mind.
(edited by Mem no Fushia.7604)
@Erukk: No, we do not know how long she served Kralkatorrik.
Her dialogue in Edge of Destiny does imply being around for multiple dragonrises though, with her finally rebelling from Kralktorrik while he was asleep.
@Rhaegar: True, but we have no indication that she’s wrong and she’s right about the rest she says about Glint and her offspring.
However, I think the 3,000 years of memory comes from Anet looking at the GWW which is based off of old GW1 (now debunked) lore. To quote: She was said to have been the first creature on Tyria, sent here by the Gods over 3,000 years ago to act as the world’s guardian during its shaping, and was later given servants—the Forgotten—to aid her in this task.
This is, quite literally, the sole mention of 3,000 years I’ve ever seen in relation to Glint other than this newer reference by Eir. This number was derived by the playerbase by the timeline and Turai Ossa’s mention of legends about Glint (that she was the first creature the gods created – something we now know was a lie Glint herself spun) and given the Forgotten as curators by said gods, and the Forgotten arrived (per the timeline) to the world of Tyria in 1769 BE.
@Mem no Fushia: There’s a very important thing you’re missing and that is the fact there are various implications that the previous dragonrise was NOT 10,000 BE but instead around 2,000 BE.
It’s a long standing question, especially as it makes one wonder how the jotun race – who’ve encountered the Elder Dragons rising multiple times (or so their legends and myths imply) – could survive so long. If the ED rose every 10,000-11,000 years like the Priory claim (and they only claim this because that was when the Giganticus Lupicus went extinct – Varra Skylark’s discovery in Arah doesn’t hold much water because she outright states that the stars do not determine events on Tyria but that they have a cycle, which the Elder Dragons seem to match – which is weird, tbh), then the jotun race would be at least 30,000 years old. For world enders like the Elder Dragons, that’s not a very good job they’ve been doing when only the last dragonrise resulted in their ‘defeat’ (so to speak).
Well ‘as old as the mountains’ (or more specifically ‘so oud soos die berge’) is a saying in my language, so I did assume it was more figurative but given the fantasy nature (and not remember Eir’s quote) I did hope it could be literally.
It’s a long standing question, especially as it makes one wonder how the jotun race – who’ve encountered the Elder Dragons rising multiple times (or so their legends and myths imply) – could survive so long. If the ED rose every 10,000-11,000 years like the Priory claim (and they only claim this because that was when the Giganticus Lupicus went extinct – Varra Skylark’s discovery in Arah doesn’t hold much water because she outright states that the stars do not determine events on Tyria but that they have a cycle, which the Elder Dragons seem to match – which is weird, tbh), then the jotun race would be at least 30,000 years old. For world enders like the Elder Dragons, that’s not a very good job they’ve been doing when only the last dragonrise resulted in their ‘defeat’ (so to speak).
Do we know that the Jotun have survived multiple rising? I’d assume it worked in a similar way to Mass Effects and the Reapers, in ME the reapers ignore less developed species and only cull the advanced ones. I’d assume that many races who have not yet developed a sufficient magical proficiency would be able to survive (although barely) during a rising as a result of them not having anything the EDs are interested in (like magic). So I’d assumed given the 10,000 years period that in the 10,000 preceding the previous rising is when they rose to sufficient magical proficiency to draw the attention of the EDs.
The thing is that the Jotun WERE very advanced. Arah explorable tells us that much, as well as some stories recounted by Thrull. Their infighting, “purity of blood” and inner wars precipitated a decline of their civilization.
They were highly magical and great stargazers.
@Mem no Fushia: There’s a very important thing you’re missing and that is the fact there are various implications that the previous dragonrise was NOT 10,000 BE but instead around 2,000 BE.
I considered that, that is why I divided my thoughts into: with 10.000BE and w/o.
I’m very thankful for info that the penultimate rise was around 2.000BE
Btw, due to statictial matters 10 000 years as averag,e they still can tell that cuz sometimes between rises can be 30.000 years and sometimes 3000 or 4000 and sometimes even more and at point that priory watch now events of history it can be 10 000 average. But those are only estamitations.
So there I continue with my speculations:
I counted 3000 back from events when we start gw2. I also recall that info that she observed multiple dragonrises. So personaly I will keep assuming that ~1672 BE is date of her last memories or her cleansing or dev mistake or Eir mistake.
Assumption or rather speculation which I wanna advance is that part about Primodous and link it with fall of jotun race.
Speculate someting like this:
- ~1672 BE Primodous immersed into ground uplifting Far Shiverpeaks.
Desciption:
Jotuns used to live in plains, that is how they had plenty food, resources etc. and developed very well. Jormag rise of influence here disrupted natural order of seasons, maybe presiously they also were able to sustain cold climate, but only cold season all time w/o warm season could cause with limited access to food, starvation, competition for survival and deaths, . When mountains rose they had less space, they were naturaly divided, that is how bounds between them broken and sharing wisdom between them was gradualy forgotten and that is how they lose with greedy and barbarity and that is how they fall.
How about that speculation.
(edited by Mem no Fushia.7604)
Do we know that the Jotun have survived multiple rising? I’d assume it worked in a similar way to Mass Effects and the Reapers, in ME the reapers ignore less developed species and only cull the advanced ones. I’d assume that many races who have not yet developed a sufficient magical proficiency would be able to survive (although barely) during a rising as a result of them not having anything the EDs are interested in (like magic). So I’d assumed given the 10,000 years period that in the 10,000 preceding the previous rising is when they rose to sufficient magical proficiency to draw the attention of the EDs.
Despite the fact they’re both cyclic world enders, the Reapers and Elder Dragons aren’t very similar.
Reapers, as you said, targeted civilized races. They only destroyed cities of worlds capable of space flight and those races who used such technologies. They ignored wildlife, let ecosystems remain in tact, etc.
The Elder Dragons, however, do not. They target wildlife, they twist landscapes, and then they go after civilized races by all indication.
The jotun have stories of multiple dragonrises – this indicates that they have at least heard of one prior to the previous one, but more likely survived such – this would place them to be around, with enough culture to maintain stories, back in 20,000 BE if the “every 10,000 years” claim from the Priory is accurate.
But here’s the thing:
These seven facts do not add up.
There are only two possible actions to make these line up:
To be fair, though, the 2,000 years comes from a magister who’s very candid about not paying much attention to Ogden’s classes, and she also gets some other fairly important things wrong- for instance, in that same quest, she credit’s Rurik’s death with “destroying the peace between the kingdoms of Kryta and Ascalon”.
I also think you might have been on to something earlier with the 3,000 years. While the Prophecies lore might be debunked, it wasn’t retconned- that figure may very well still be floating around in Tyria, with the humans figuring they got the details wrong but the general chronology right. Since most of the ‘facts’ bandied about before DE went after Glint were human legend, it easily could’ve been brought to Eir’s attention. Considering that Illyra’s sources don’t seem to include any hard time frames, and that in-universe the 10,000 B.E. date theory was considered something of a recent development at launch, that potentially faulty number may be the only one out there that Eir could know.
(edited by Aaron Ansari.1604)
I presumed that line was simply a metaphorical analogy., similar to our phrase “as old the hills”, rather than an accurate timeline measurement
What’s the probability it was an 8,000 year Dragonrise though? That’s possible isn’kitten if the dragons were spaced out far enough on Tyria (planet). If there were more races or even if he current races were more far spread I don’t see why this isn’t possible.
We’re killing them currently, who’s to say the ancient races couldn’t have simply held them off. After all, wasn’t the bloodstone a last resort?
I did mention an 8,000 year reign as a possibility, but this implies that the dearven civilization came into being at the end of that 8,000 years of corruption and destruction across the globe.
By all indications, the only reason why there is such a strong force fighting back this time is that there were survivors in any form last time (thus able to pass on, albeit unheeded or warped, knowledge) with the Bloodstone preventing the ED from reigning as long as they otherwise would have, and the fact that Glint has been preparing for those thousands of years (be it 3,000 or 11,000) – I highly doubt that such preparation culminated in the events of Edge of Destiny novel, because that’d be rather pathetic for a being who made scarily accurate prophecizing 800 years in advance of GW1’s events.
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