Guild Wars 2

We were just pondering here at home that we’d not seen any Risen Silvari. Risen Everything Else Under The Sun, but no Silvari. Hmmm… Could this be part of their purpose? By being resistant to dragon power?

If the pale tree is a dragon then yeah

A popular theory is that Sylvari are minions of Mordramoth (possible 6th dragon with nature theme, check CoE) and the pale tree was “corrupted” by the ventari table becoming good. With the nightmare court being the true nature of the Sylvari.

Just to add to Redamz’s very correct outline of the theory, it would mean the Pale Tree is a dragon champion, not an actual dragon.

i’m more in favor of the theory that the sylvaris are more of Tyria’s answer to the dragons, like antibodies or something.

BrunoBRS.5178:

i’m more in favor of the theory that the sylvaris are more of Tyria’s answer to the dragons, like antibodies or something.

This is most likely, since the Nightmare court is NOT the true nature of sylvari without the tablet of Ventari. In the Sylvari storyline, you meet someone who was born of another tree, and he is nothing like the Nightmare court. Honestly, this whole Pale Tree = Dragon minion thing is quite silly, imo

Aegrahm.4952:

BrunoBRS.5178:

i’m more in favor of the theory that the sylvaris are more of Tyria’s answer to the dragons, like antibodies or something.

This is most likely, since the Nightmare court is NOT the true nature of sylvari without the tablet of Ventari. In the Sylvari storyline, you meet someone who was born of another tree, and he is nothing like the Nightmare court. Honestly, this whole Pale Tree = Dragon minion thing is quite silly, imo

Agree. Plus, it’s only stated that Sylvari cannot rise as an UNDEAD. It doesn’t mean they can’t be corrupted by other methods.

I assume the reason behind this is their “Dream of dreams” Where their “Souls” go after death. Making them more of a husk of a former sylvari, and not able to be corrupted by Zhaitan. It’s been shown multiple times that those corrupted still have all of the memories/etc from when they were alive, and all of those are in the “Dream of dreams”

Boolet.2968:

Aegrahm.4952:

BrunoBRS.5178:

i’m more in favor of the theory that the sylvaris are more of Tyria’s answer to the dragons, like antibodies or something.

This is most likely, since the Nightmare court is NOT the true nature of sylvari without the tablet of Ventari. In the Sylvari storyline, you meet someone who was born of another tree, and he is nothing like the Nightmare court. Honestly, this whole Pale Tree = Dragon minion thing is quite silly, imo

Agree. Plus, it’s only stated that Sylvari cannot rise as an UNDEAD. It doesn’t mean they can’t be corrupted by other methods.

I assume the reason behind this is their “Dream of dreams” Where their “Souls” go after death. Making them more of a husk of a former sylvari, and not able to be corrupted by Zhaitan. It’s been shown multiple times that those corrupted still have all of the memories/etc from when they were alive, and all of those are in the “Dream of dreams”

no, they’re immune to all dragon corruption, not just zhaitan’s.

the dream of dreams ‘captures’ the MEMORIES, not souls, of those that are still ALIVE. dead sylvaris don’t go to the dream. they probably go to the mists like everyone else.

No one knows exactly what happens to sylvari after death. There is no evidence of Sylvari spirits anywhere.

interesting stuffs, thanks all!

Well, I don’t think it was mentioned, as I only skimmed the thread, and I don’t know why, exactly, but:

Zhaitan corrupts the dead bodies of animals. I have yet to see any risen plants, why should the Sylvari be any different?

Whether its coincidence or purpose, the spoiler-free version of the answer to your question is that it is a fact (in that it is explicitly stated by content in the game) that Sylvari can not be corrupted by Zhaitan.

Or it could be none of that.

Maybe they can’t become undead because they’re plants….

I need to tell that to the horde of Risen that keep following me around while mining and chopping trees in Orr. They certainly don’t seem to care for my immunity -.-

The main problem with the “sylvari are already corrupted, nightmare court are the real thing” is that corruption seems to be a one-way journey in the universe of GW. You don’t get better from becoming Risen or an Icebrood or a Branded…or from falling into Nightmare. (It’s a key plot element in the Moon Shield arc.)

drnuncheon.8029:

The main problem with the “sylvari are already corrupted, nightmare court are the real thing” is that corruption seems to be a one-way journey in the universe of GW. You don’t get better from becoming Risen or an Icebrood or a Branded…or from falling into Nightmare. (It’s a key plot element in the Moon Shield arc.)

Different type of corruption. The nightmare court is a corruption of philosophy and emotion. Dragon corruption was in physical and in “soul”.

Xolo.3580:

I need to tell that to the horde of Risen that keep following me around while mining and chopping trees in Orr. They certainly don’t seem to care for my immunity -.-

Some of them were probably vegan before orr fell :p

Darx.9842:

Or it could be none of that.

Maybe they can’t become undead because they’re plants….

Many plants are corrupted in the Dragon Brand, but there are no branded Sylvari. Now I understand that not many sylvari can be found there, but still it seem there should be some.

I’m not very knowledgeable of Guild Wars’ lore but from what i have seen… I’d assume the Risen are literally from Orr, when it sank, it killed people then as it was brought back up so where they. Since no Sylvari existed to drown with the island, none came up with it.

Or something else, who knows?

No, in the story Zhaitan has had undead killing all peoples and shipping their corpses back to Orr to be resurrected. It is also claimed that Zhaitan’s Champions have the power to raise the undead themselves. But it would make little sense for there to be Norn around Orr when it was risen. I mean I could perhaps agree with Asura and Charr pirates there, but Norn, based on where they live, would have no reason to raid the peninsula’s remains.

Jeffrey Vaughn.1793:

The asura have offered to experiment on the sylvari and determine why they appear immune to corruption, but so far no one has volunteered.

I volunteer my Sylvari. Get to finding out.

It seems that the Nightmare court have offered themselves to the Inquest, but I highly doubt the inquest will share their findings…. without a fight.

It mostly due to Zhaitan’s corruption only affects being of flesh and blood. Sylvari are humanoid planets so they can’t be affected unless the corruption is through the mind or plants.

Alex the Precise.3654:

Zhaitan corrupts the dead bodies of animals. I have yet to see any risen plants, why should the Sylvari be any different?

There’s corrupted plants at the Dragonbrand. Granted, it’s Kralkatorrik’s doing and not Zhaitan’s, but it’s still a form of dragon corruption.

And have you seen those disgusting plant-like things in Orr? Check the path that leads from the Cathedral of Eternal Radiance, to the Ossuary. They’re in many other places as well.

Kolisk.3047:

I’m not very knowledgeable of Guild Wars’ lore but from what i have seen… I’d assume the Risen are literally from Orr, when it sank, it killed people then as it was brought back up so where they. Since no Sylvari existed to drown with the island, none came up with it.

Or something else, who knows?

As far as I’m concerned, “Orrian Undead” is a trademark of Vizier Khilbron, all rights reserved. Well, I guess Zhaitan didn’t care much about the rights…

Anyway, the point is, even though Zhaitan’s servants collect corpses from the mainland and ship them to Orr, there were already orrian undead before Zhaitan’s arrival. Also, we’ve got this trailer showing Zhaitan’s rise along with some undead servants, which would mean that at least some undead were already present there. Likely orrian ones.

AND, most importantly, we have risen orrians all over the place. Risen princes, risen generals, risen nobles, risen bufoons, risen farmers, risen chickens, you name it. Something I’d like to know about these risen, is: did Zhaitan create them, or did he repurpose them? Meaning Khilbron was responsible for their creation, through Abaddon’s influence. I’d like to know exactly how these undead came to be assuming they’re Khilbron’s creations and, if so, why they weren’t imprisoned within the Realm of Torment.

That said, I do understand very clearly, that Zhaitan does indeed manufacture undead. I’m not suggesting otherwise, I’m merely speculating on the origin of the first ones he used.

Well, I still haven’t finished my personal story, I guess there might be more information out there, somewhere.

Charr Guardian.1497:

Kolisk.3047:

I’m not very knowledgeable of Guild Wars’ lore but from what i have seen… I’d assume the Risen are literally from Orr, when it sank, it killed people then as it was brought back up so where they. Since no Sylvari existed to drown with the island, none came up with it.

Or something else, who knows?

As far as I’m concerned, “Orrian Undead” is a trademark of Vizier Khilbron, all rights reserved. Well, I guess Zhaitan didn’t care much about the rights…

Anyway, the point is, even though Zhaitan’s servants collect corpses from the mainland and ship them to Orr, there were already orrian undead before Zhaitan’s arrival. Also, we’ve got this trailer showing Zhaitan’s rise along with some undead servants, which would mean that at least some undead were already present there. Likely orrian ones.

AND, most importantly, we have risen orrians all over the place. Risen princes, risen generals, risen nobles, risen bufoons, risen farmers, risen chickens, you name it. Something I’d like to know about these risen, is: did Zhaitan create them, or did he repurpose them? Meaning Khilbron was responsible for their creation, through Abaddon’s influence. I’d like to know exactly how these undead came to be assuming they’re Khilbron’s creations and, if so, why they weren’t imprisoned within the Realm of Torment.

That said, I do understand very clearly, that Zhaitan does indeed manufacture undead. I’m not suggesting otherwise, I’m merely speculating on the origin of the first ones he used.

Well, I still haven’t finished my personal story, I guess there might be more information out there, somewhere.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Movement_of_the_World#Orr

Eurantien.4632:

If the pale tree is a dragon then yeah

See CoE – dragon minions can be corrupted by other dragons.

Redamz.5038:

A popular theory is that Sylvari are minions of Mordramoth (possible 6th dragon with nature theme, check CoE) and the pale tree was “corrupted” by the ventari table becoming good. With the nightmare court being the true nature of the Sylvari.

Malyck disproves this theory by your claims.

Jeffrey Vaughn.1793:

The asura have offered to experiment on the sylvari and determine why they appear immune to corruption, but so far no one has volunteered.

I’d imagine the Nightmare Court wouldn’t mind.

And, huh, CoE has Nightmare Husks made by the Nightmare Court. And Kudu somehow retains his personality after becoming corrupted, a minor immunity perhaps? Inquest don’t really take “volunteers” anyways.

I wonder…

drnuncheon.8029:

The main problem with the “sylvari are already corrupted, nightmare court are the real thing” is that corruption seems to be a one-way journey in the universe of GW. You don’t get better from becoming Risen or an Icebrood or a Branded…or from falling into Nightmare. (It’s a key plot element in the Moon Shield arc.)

Actually, the forgotten found a way to reverse dragon corruption.

Mentally that is. Hence Glint.

Charr Guardian.1497:

did Zhaitan create them, or did he repurpose them?

There were some wondering undead, supposedly, in Orr, but Zhaitan did rise some of those Orrian undead himself. I’d presume its a mixture, but I’ve never seen it mentioned.

Jeffrey Vaughn.1793:

The asura have offered to experiment on the sylvari and determine why they appear immune to corruption, but so far no one has volunteered.

I roleplay a lot, I’m happy to do a sylvari who’s wyld hunt is to extend the immunity of the sylvari to the other races. I’ll make a Sylvari, level it to whatever, and happily turn them over to DEV’s and taken out of my control. Just say the word

In the personal story line involving charr tanks and sylvari sharp shooters, the leader of the sylvari group theorized that they’re immune to being risen after death simply because they are too new to Tyria and the elder dragon can’t figure them out.

As for the nightmare court, they corrupted themselves, wasn’t a dragon’s doing.

And the nightmare court is more of a corruption in the sense of, once you start torturing and maiming others there is no coming back. As opposed to, “Oh my flesh is now branded crystal and I can think of nothing other than pleasing Kralkatorrik!”

Sylvari may be immune to Zhaitan, but they are the only ones vulnerable to nightmare corruptions.

If anyone’s bothered exploring enough, you’ll notice Shattered and Icebrood are created the same way as Nightmare Court Sylvari: Someone is placed in a pod (instead of encased in ice/crystal), and they come out corrupted.

That’s not the only way sylvari are twisted to the Nightmare, and you’d know this if you paid attention. :P Simple torture is enough to do it – psychological torture, that is. For sylvari, falling to the nightmare is, literally, synonymous with going insane.

Mental breakdowns, insanity, etc. – for humans, leads to bubbling idiots to psychopaths. For sylvari, leads to the nightmare (aka, only psychopaths).

Knowing this, those pods are probably just torture devices.

Rojaha.4082:

Sylvari may be immune to Zhaitan, but they are the only ones vulnerable to nightmare corruptions…

I disagree here. There’s an event in Caledon Forest where the mosshearts are at risk of being corrupted by the Nightmare Court. This isn’t just a psychological torment, but they are visibly tainted. This makes me think the oakhearts and mosshearts are attached to the Pale Tree in some way, since the sylvan hounds can also be corrupted and, according to the wiki, are created by the Pale Tree.

Jeffrey Vaughn.1793:

The asura have offered to experiment on the sylvari and determine why they appear immune to corruption, but so far no one has volunteered.

The Soundless would be perfect for this! They aren’t Nightmare Court or normal Grove Sylvari, so there isn’t any risk of experimentation hurting the dream! This of course is assuming they are actually disconnected from the dream… :P

There are treants who become “twisted” outside of the Nightmare Court’s influence – that is to say, rotting oakhearts, such as the one in Queensdale. These rotting oakhearts look akin to the nightmare mosshearts’ appearance, though the oakhearts also have an unusual shine to them.

What’s important to note is that the sylvari do not change in appearance – that is, becoming rotting or twisted – when converted to the Nightmare Court. The standard NC does have a darker skin, but not as dark as normal sylvari can become, and some of the unique models – the higher ups and thus more twisted sylvari – have standard appearances. So I think the darker appearance is akin to why some of the non-shaman Flame Legion models have white stripes over orange fur, or why a number of bandits have white hair – that is to say, to make them stand out from the players, since they’re the same race and even armor can be duplicated perfectly.

Also, I wouldn’t say treants are attached to the Pale Tree in some way – given the fact they predate the Pale Tree by a long time. Rather, it’d be the pale tree related to the treants if there is any relation (that is to say, treants came before the Pale Tree, so its the latter who holds the offshooting connection).

The Sylvari are Tyria’s immune system to the rising of the Elder Dragons.

As they have awoken, so has the Pale Tree and its children, the Sylvari. They cannot be corrupted by Zhaitan because each Sylvari is just an extension of the Pale Tree itself, which is an extremely powerful being and un-corruptible by any magic.

Jeffrey Vaughn.1793:

The asura have offered to experiment on the sylvari and determine why they appear immune to corruption, but so far no one has volunteered.

Nobody’s volunteered, but didn’t the asura dissect the first sylvari they encountered? I’m surprised the Inquest never captured/studied sylvari and their dragon corruption immunity. In CoE, they seem to have captured humans and other races to test corruption of them, judging from one of the rooms with a shattered human in the story mode.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

That’s not the only way sylvari are twisted to the Nightmare, and you’d know this if you paid attention. :P Simple torture is enough to do it – psychological torture, that is. For sylvari, falling to the nightmare is, literally, synonymous with going insane.

Mental breakdowns, insanity, etc. – for humans, leads to bubbling idiots to psychopaths. For sylvari, leads to the nightmare (aka, only psychopaths).

Knowing this, those pods are probably just torture devices.

Interesting. Only Sylvari stuff I’ve done is storymode of TA. I figured Nightmare Court was their equivalent of Icebrood, since the pod captives seem unwilling and are “forcibly” converted. I thought their visibly getting darker than normal sylvari was some kind of corruption. There’s six points around Crucible of Eternity, which each seem to represent a different Elder Dragon, though there are only 5 Elder Dragons, I think, and the sixth point is plant themed. Figured there might be some plant themed secret 6th Elder Dragon.

Eerekai.9438:

Rojaha.4082:

Sylvari may be immune to Zhaitan, but they are the only ones vulnerable to nightmare corruptions…

I disagree here. There’s an event in Caledon Forest where the mosshearts are at risk of being corrupted by the Nightmare Court. This isn’t just a psychological torment, but they are visibly tainted. This makes me think the oakhearts and mosshearts are attached to the Pale Tree in some way, since the sylvan hounds can also be corrupted and, according to the wiki, are created by the Pale Tree.

I meant the only “people”. There don’t seem to be any Nightmare Court Humans, Charr, Asura, and Norn.

Jeffrey Vaughn.1793:

The asura have offered to experiment on the sylvari and determine why they appear immune to corruption, but so far no one has volunteered.

The Inquests are incompetent.

So, since the Sylvari are plants, why don’t they have the abilities that plants do??
disguise, poison darts/leaves, strong EARTH/AIR magics (and weaker Fire/Water magics), familiars such as birds, small animals, etc??
There was SOOOO much more that could have been done with this race, I’m disappointed that the decision was “humans with green skin”

Well, that sort of situation arises when they are trying to make all races on equal footing when it comes to gameplay. Having all of these bonus features would more than likely give them an advantage over other elementalists or rangers. Instead they went with the Sylvari ability to create plant based weaponry, such as the flower mortars.

Jeffrey Vaughn.1793:

The asura have offered to experiment on the sylvari and determine why they appear immune to corruption, but so far no one has volunteered.

trahearne, we need you.

The Silvari cannot be corrupted because they are a new especie in Tyria. A new magic form with a type of hive mind connecting them all from some sort of new universe (distant from the dragons) and a form of central mental server who mantain order (pale tree).

They can´t be corrupted because actually the dragons simply don´t know how. Maybe giving them time we will see some sort of corrupt soundless (because they are disconnected) or even some sort of hacking of their dream connecting them with a dragon´s dream. (Yes, i´m a computer technician).

And the Nightmare are not a dragon corruption, they are note even corrupted. When Malomedies was “probed” by asurans who think it was another of these moving plants, Cadeyrn ,Trahearne and Caithe have been shocked they feel hate for the other races, but the love for the Pale Tree mantain the last two in line, Cadeyrn simply start thinking that Pale Tree is corrupted by the Ventari Tablet and broke with those Dogmas. He wants to free the Pale Tree and the Silvari from this corruption and make Silvari what a Silvari wants to be, and not a Tablet written by an Centaur and a Human. So Nightmare Court have a justified motive, their methods isn´t justified because they force people into nightmare.

http://www.arena.net/blog/dream-and-nightmare

There are a few problems with this though.

It is obviously not difficult for the dragons to corrupt plant life. In fact plant life is what grows when you remove Zhaitan’s Corruption in the end of the Personal Story and it can be seen corrupted throughout the Dragon Brand. Also, every race in Tyria currently is new to the dragons. Nothing that currently exists was around back during the dragon’s last rise, but they have no problems corrupting charr, norn, humans and asura. With these two points, it should technically be simple for the Elder Dragons to corrupt the plant lifeforms represented in the sylvari. Lastly the hive-mind type situation is nothing new. We do not know exactly what the dwarves were like back in the last rising of the ED’s, but it is known that at one point in time there was the Great Dwarf, which currently appears to be a Hive Mind version of the Dwarves. But either way, hive minds are not new to the ED’s, and there is no evidence that anything along the line of Hive Mind situations are a major roadblock in the process of corruption.

@Narcemus

The races are not new to the dragons, at least for their champions (and what a champion knows…). Primordus uses his destroyers, a champion of jormag already corrupted Svanir (nornbear), Krakaltorrik was dormant near a charr acampament and glint protected the races from dragons before.

Unlike others, the silvari are totally new to this world (25 years against centuries of other races), they are not really plants, they use active circulatory system, they eat meat, they don´t rely on photosyntesis to live, it’s more like a mix of human and plant, so new type of life. Their magic cannot be the same of the other races because they don´t existed when Abbadon give magic to the world, so they derive they magic from another source, or, use the magic force in diferent ways, so it´s not a recognized type of magic for dragons to feed on.

Everyone here is typing the same letter everytime, they are plant, dragons corrupt plants, so they can corrupt silvari. Silvari are not plants, they are plantlike lifeform it´s a diferent specie.

On another topic. If you can´t remember the dwarves wasn´t corrupted by the dragons, reforcing my theory about hive mind protecting them. They even destroy a Primordus Champion and a lot of his minions (remember, champions can corrupt too).

A hive mind is shared with the other members of the same mind, so the others can and will protect that mind against the corruption.

Firstly, there are other walking plant lifeforms that have been corrupted by dragons, corrupted husks if I remember right in the Crucible of Eternity. Now these lifeforms would be similar, if not the same, as the sylvari in their need for food consumption and a means in which to transport energy throughout their body (aka a circulatory system).

I also want to point out that Primordius doesn’t corrupt individuals. He forms lava and rock into his minions. This can be seen in the Edge of Destiny book where they have to plug the caldera of a volcano in order to stop his minions from forming together and then coming out of it. We have no proof that the Dragons could not have corrupted the dwarves at one point in time, because there are no dragons which corrupt living beings that are active near where the dwarves are. You see once the individual is cut off from the Hive Mind (something as simple as death) the body is readily available for corruption, but strangely enough nothing that Zhaitan does can revive the form of a Sylvari.

My point is, on his first meeting with a Norn Jormag corrupted him within a matter of minutes, and upon his awakening Kralkatorrik corrupted everything around him without struggle. Whereas Zhaitan has had access to Sylvari within his realm for almost 25 years (Caithe, Trahearn, Rhiannoc) and he has thus far had no success at all at raising their corpses. And also who says they use magic any differently than any other races, the bloodstones seep magic into the world as a whole. That coupled with the fact that the sylvari are limited the same way as the other races when it comes to magic says to me that they are limited to the same sources as well.

The other plant like lifeforce (like husks) aren´t sapient. They are older than silvari (in GW1 they are only some sort of an annoying healer with knockdown powers, in 250 years i believe they have evolved…), they rely on his plant form of life (in GW1 they appear from soil) and don´t have a hive mind.

A champion of Jormag corrupted Svanir (brother of Jora) and he was well and alive in the same period of the dwarves, azurans and other races. And for all lore we know every champion can corrupt what he can touch. But willpower can make a person resist a champions corruptions (Jora resisted by willpower and only lost his connections to bear spirit because her love of her brother). So a hive mind will give much more willpower to a person than rely only on themselves.

But you can be right on a thing. A person can resist a champion corruption, but not the ED corruption. And, well, when they awakened, there aren´t sylvaris all around. And we don´t see them roaming looking for individuals to be corrupted, they leave it to their minions.

Even if they use the same magic source it´s not necessary they use it the same way or conduct like other races when the bloodstones shared magic in the world. LIke playing mortal kombat in playstation and in xbox. They use the same source graphics and soundes, the final results are a lot the same, but the way they process internally was totally different.

And giving a LOT of diferences in a Sylvari, their body, their magic processing, their hive mind, they being the youngest race, no contact with dragons and his minions before the events. It turns them immune to corrution, at least for now. We don´t know what will happen if a ED have a direct contact with an Sylvari. And maybe Zhaitan was the only exception because the corpse of a Sylvari can be a lot diferent than the other known races and they don´t know how to raise them to corrupt.

evolverzilla.2359:

A champion of Jormag corrupted Svanir (brother of Jora) and he was well and alive in the same period of the dwarves, azurans and other races. And for all lore we know every champion can corrupt what he can touch.

Many dragon champions have touched sylvari. Sylvari have died at the hands of champions in the Dragonbrand, up in Frostgorge Sound against the Claw of Jormag, on Claw Island, and throughout all of Orr. From the Eye of Zhaitan it seems clear that Zhaitan took our mentor from Claw Island and tried to make them one of his champions to fight against our character, which for Durmand Priory folks is a Sylvari. So not only have they been in the hands of Champions, but they have been in the hands of the ED himself. It just seems to me that there is something bigger going on here than that they are too ‘new’ for him to figure out, when other creatures that were not around during the first dragon rising were corrupted within minutes of their awakening.

The dragons may not have seen certain individual races before, no, but they had plenty of practise corrupting organic lifeforms. Biologically, I’ll bet that humans, Norns & Charr are a lot more similar to Jotun, Dwarves & Mursaat than they are to Sylvari.

Yet the corrupt trees, they corrupt flesh and blood, but they just can’t wrap their mind around little trees that make up representations of flesh and blood. Why are we fighting these dragons again? They are idiots.