Guild Wars 2

I wasn’t sure where to post this so I thought the general forums might be a good place to start. I’ve had some thoughts/questions about the dragons that I’ve been trying to talk to guild mates about (although they haven’t been on so its been kind of difficult). So I thought I would try here.

1.What do the dragons over all threat? Tyria the world? or Tyria the continent?

If its the world, wouldn’t it make sense to try to reach out to Elona or Cantha more? (I know the dragons make this hard to do but if we can kill a dragon I think we can somehow contact them, with any combination or airships/asura gates which have been proven exist in these locations, smoke signals, godly invisibility that NPC’s seem to have)

If its just the continent, could we try and move to elona or cantha somehow (similar to above) until they are done and go back to hibernation?

2. Do the dragons affect the area known as The Mists?

If not, I would think we could just hide in there until everything blows over?

3.Glint had eggs. We know atleast 1 hatched (although not sure if it survived) and another egg is around (Living Story) So can the Elder Dragons lay eggs like their champions? If so, could they hatch and do the same thing the current elder Dragons are doing? Or are the current champions actually their children now?

This is the question that really intrigues me. Because to me this means that if they can lay eggs and their eggs survive, then the cycle will continue and we just keep postponing the end of all life. and could explain why Tequatl got uber powerful now, we killed its mom and its kittened.

4.The Zephyrites talk of the Elder dragons as forces of nature. The dragons rise, consume all magic, go to sleep, magic leaks out and returns to the world, repeat. So If we did kill all the dragons, what would happen to the world known as Tyria? Would a new threat appear? Would magic just go out of control?

I’m not really sure about the answer to this one, but even if we don’t see anything close to this, I think its something interesting to think about.

Sorry if these questions have already been asked/answered but, curiosity got the best of me and I posted this, I hope at least I may of gotten someone something interesting to think about.

Honestly the dragons don’t feel that threatening at all..

ok I’ll give Modremoth some props though since his living world made him a lot more dominant a threat..

but Zhaitan.. oh some undead here wondering around.. no he was not a threat..

in fact I actually felt guilty about killing him.. he felt more like a mutated freak that just wanted to be left alone and we marched in there all high and mighty and murdered him..

Zhaitan just didn’t feel like a threat because there was too much focus on his minions
and the Risen are more or less just a copy paste concept of Gw1’s undead.. zombies.. again yay..

the problem with The Elder Dragons is that all of their glory is being stolen because of their direct inaction.. that makes them ghosts essentially

Modremoth is the only one who feels like a threat because of his vines which were confirmed to be him and not minions.. are actually popping up everywhere and destroying stuff

All the other dragons are in the same situation as Zhaitan..
Thier minions have all the glory because the dragons themselves for one thing are not even in the game yet.. and becuase they have no direct impact on the game either

Like I said this makes them Ghosts and their direct inaction on the world kills their threat factor almost completely

I don’t feel like the world is under attack by dragons..

I fell like the world is under attack by Zombies, Purple Rock people, Angry Norn, Racist Charr, Bandits, Horse People, Asuran Supremacists, Evil Tree People and some other factions..

The Elder Dragons… they just seem to exist..
but with Exception to Modremoth who so far has been the best example of why an Elder Dragon should be feared..

Jormag, Primordus, Kralkatorrick, Zhaitan and Bubbles…. all awake and all feel as threatening as some kid online saying he’s gonna find where you live and come beat you up..

is the leaked magic just the dragons wetting the bed?

I believe the lore forum has your answers. There’s been similar threads to this there.

Teratus.2859:

Honestly the dragons don’t feel that threatening at all..

ok I’ll give Modremoth some props though since his living world made him a lot more dominant a threat..

but Zhaitan.. oh some undead here wondering around.. no he was not a threat..

in fact I actually felt guilty about killing him.. he felt more like a mutated freak that just wanted to be left alone and we marched in there all high and mighty and murdered him..

Zhaitan just didn’t feel like a threat because there was too much focus on his minions
and the Risen are more or less just a copy paste concept of Gw1’s undead.. zombies.. again yay..

the problem with The Elder Dragons is that all of their glory is being stolen because of their direct inaction.. that makes them ghosts essentially

Modremoth is the only one who feels like a threat because of his vines which were confirmed to be him and not minions.. are actually popping up everywhere and destroying stuff

All the other dragons are in the same situation as Zhaitan..
Thier minions have all the glory because the dragons themselves for one thing are not even in the game yet.. and becuase they have no direct impact on the game either

Like I said this makes them Ghosts and their direct inaction on the world kills their threat factor almost completely

I don’t feel like the world is under attack by dragons..

I fell like the world is under attack by Zombies, Purple Rock people, Angry Norn, Racist Charr, Bandits, Horse People, Asuran Supremacists, Evil Tree People and some other factions..

The Elder Dragons… they just seem to exist..
but with Exception to Modremoth who so far has been the best example of why an Elder Dragon should be feared..

Jormag, Primordus, Kralkatorrick, Zhaitan and Bubbles…. all awake and all feel as threatening as some kid online saying he’s gonna find where you live and come beat you up..

You got that wrong only 2 dragons have arised from their slumber so far mate.

Linken.6345:

You got that wrong only 2 dragons have arised from their slumber so far mate.

Krak awoke as chronicalled in the Edge of Destiny book
Jormag is awake and was fought. His tooth is on show in Hoelbrak
Primiordius is on the move and is awake
DSD we believe is awake from the disturbance causing Karka to flee

So, yes they are actually all awake. Mordremoth was the last to rise

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Timeline shows some of the dates of dragons recently rising

Just because a general doesn’t lead from the front line doesn’t make him any less the cause of your suffering. The Risen were attacking because Zhaitan was driving them to.

In general the Dragons, at least in the past, don’t seem to have thought much about the mortal races beyond them being somewhat more troublesome food. That doesn’t mean they don’t recognise us as threats, at least now, but they are primarily driven by their hunger and like a drug addict hunting for their next hit they are fixated on magical sources.

Don’t be mistaken though. The Risen attacked because Zhaitan wanted them to. The Icebrood and the Branded attack because that is what their masters want.

kamedin.4698:

1.What do the dragons over all threat? Tyria the world? or Tyria the continent?

If its the world, wouldn’t it make sense to try to reach out to Elona or Cantha more? (I know the dragons make this hard to do but if we can kill a dragon I think we can somehow contact them, with any combination or airships/asura gates which have been proven exist in these locations, smoke signals, godly invisibility that NPC’s seem to have)

If its just the continent, could we try and move to elona or cantha somehow (similar to above) until they are done and go back to hibernation?

They threaten the whole world.

Contact with Cantha and Elona has been cut off due to them going isolationist and because of the Elder Dragons’ rise. Though this is really just because Anet doesn’t want to go there yet, the story reason they provide (you determine how much sense it makes – idiot ball is common amongst the good guys in GW2 anyways) is simply that they cannot pass by the Elder Dragon threat. Contact with Elona has been sealed (sans Order of Whispers) for approximately 50 years; and contact with Cantha since Zhaitan’s rise.

Why not contact Cantha now that Zhaitan’s dead? Unstated. Not a story focus so it’s forgotten like everything else (centaur war? peace treaty? Who cares, we got Scarlet and Mordremoty!).

For now the Elder Dragons are primarily threatening the continent of Tyria, but in the long run they threaten the world.

kamedin.4698:

2. Do the dragons affect the area known as The Mists?

If not, I would think we could just hide in there until everything blows over?

Jormag has been trying to spread into the Mists, but other than that we know of no draconic influence in the Mists (well, aside from Zhaitan pulling souls from the Mists).

However, the Mists don’t seem like a good living space. It seems to be constantly changing, full of unknowns and constant dangers, and is probably quite a mind kitten to live in for extended periods of time. But it is theoretically possible as that’s what the mursaat did.

But good luck trying to convince several million people who don’t feel the brunt of the Elder Dragons’ threat to pack up and leave for the rest of their life.

kamedin.4698:

3.Glint had eggs. We know atleast 1 hatched (although not sure if it survived) and another egg is around (Living Story) So can the Elder Dragons lay eggs like their champions? If so, could they hatch and do the same thing the current elder Dragons are doing? Or are the current champions actually their children now?

This is the question that really intrigues me. Because to me this means that if they can lay eggs and their eggs survive, then the cycle will continue and we just keep postponing the end of all life. and could explain why Tequatl got uber powerful now, we killed its mom and its kittened.

Dragon champions are corrupted beings and landscapes, not children. Technically speaking, dragon minions cannot sexually reproduce – the only way to have corrupted unbirthed minions is to corrupt eggs (either inside or outside the body), though theoretically corrupt pregnant beings can work too. It seems that corrupted eggs can go into a form of stasis (either inside or outside the body), as Glint’s eggs did and we see corrupted drakes and spiders that lay eggs despite supposedly being corrupted for nearly 100 years.

The question for Glint’s egg is whether or not Glint was a pregnant being when corrupted, or if they’re just standard dragon minion creating new dragon minions by corrupting things. If it’s the former, it indicates a dragon race having existed in the past, now extinct/mostly extinct. If it’s the later, then this isn’t traditional egg laying via sexual reproduction but instead akin to the Destroyer Queen in the skritt personal story – a dragon champion is twisting things and incubating them so they form slowly.

Given all indications of Glint, I’m betting its the former, however.

As to can Elder Dragons lay eggs – unknown, unlikely given that we haven’t seen such yet. But Glint’s children theoretically could become Elder Dragons given time (theoretically, Glint nearly did). We don’t know if this is because they’re dragon minions, or because they’re dragons that were corrupted, though (depending on the first question above).

We’ll likely find out more on this in HoT.

kamedin.4698:

4.The Zephyrites talk of the Elder dragons as forces of nature. The dragons rise, consume all magic, go to sleep, magic leaks out and returns to the world, repeat. So If we did kill all the dragons, what would happen to the world known as Tyria? Would a new threat appear? Would magic just go out of control?

I’m not really sure about the answer to this one, but even if we don’t see anything close to this, I think its something interesting to think about.

The whole “force of nature” thing for Elder Dragons is really just a bunch of BS. It’s how Tyrians view these massive, unknown-to-them, seemingly unstoppable beings. Not only the Zephyrites, but all uneducated Tyrians view them as such. This is also how Anet tried to present them when we started (sometimes explicitly stated ‘this is how Tyrians view them’). Other times, Anet tries presenting them as ‘merely’ apex predators.

But as we learn stuff in both the Personal Story and in the Living World, we know this isn’t correct. So either Anet’s kitten-poor liars, they’re trying to create a big unviel and failing at it (again), or they’re just kitten-poor story writers. At this point, any of the above or all three may be possible. :/

As to “what would happen if we kill them” – Hidden Arcana from Season 2 gives heavy indications to this. The Elder Dragons’ purpose in the world is to balance magic. However, that isn’t necessarily their goal. And how they balance magic is from extremes – from too much magic (when they wake) to too little magic (when they sleep) and they let it rise to the point of too much (waking next cycle), rinse repeat. In Hidden Arcana, it is indicated that not balancing magic will destroy the world – too little and the world crumbles, too much and it goes out of control.

I like to think of the “too much” as being Thaumanova aftermath effects resulting world-wide, among other things.

But also hinted in Hidden Arcana is that dragons can replace Elder Dragons given enough time and magic to consume. Ogden indicates that Glint was close – but she lived while magic was low in the world. Going off of this, Tequatl’s power boost (which is lore) may indicate that Tequatl’s trying to become an Elder Dragon and replace Zhaitan. People suspect that Glint’s egg is likely meant to replace an Elder Dragon. And if Glaust is still alive, he should be able to replace one too – theoretically, the Pale Tree, Malyck’s tree, and maybe even Kuunavang could replace Elder Dragons.

Teratus.2859:

but Zhaitan.. oh some undead here wondering around.. no he was not a threat..

in fact I actually felt guilty about killing him.. he felt more like a mutated freak that just wanted to be left alone and we marched in there all high and mighty and murdered him..

Zhaitan just didn’t feel like a threat because there was too much focus on his minions
and the Risen are more or less just a copy paste concept of Gw1’s undead.. zombies.. again yay..

Zhaitan didn’t want to be left alone… he was continuously expanding his forces outward. The fights didn’t really do much to make him and his forces seem like true threats though – but this is a mechanic issue, in all honesty.

The risen are definitely not copy paste concept of GW1’s undead. Though there’s a parallel (which was clearly intentional), they function very differently.

But yeah, Zhaitan had too little of a focus. And no re-occurring villain really hurt the issue too. Mass Effect had Saren, Collector General, and Illusive Man/Kai Lang to give us reoccurring villains while we hardly ever focused on the behind threats (Sovereign and Harbinger) until the end. Zhaitan didn’t have a Saren; but needed one.

I think that’s part of why they made Scarlet such a re-occurring threat… but she was done very poorly, as she was presented in the same manner as Zhaitan, but with more personality; no re-occurring underlings to fight, we never even met the leaders of the Molten Alliance or Toxic Alliance. And she died far too soon to be a proper Saren to Mordremoth’s Sovereign.

kamedin.4698:

Modremoth is the only one who feels like a threat because of his vines which were confirmed to be him and not minions.. are actually popping up everywhere and destroying stuff

Theorized to be him. And that was only in reference to those wrapping around the waypoints.

kamedin.4698:

All the other dragons are in the same situation as Zhaitan.

Not really.

If you read Kralkatorrik, he had a lot of face time so he’s definitely in the lead, and he feels a bit more threatening due to the novel. Primordus also had some face time in GW1 (well, as did Kralkatorrik but more directly than Kralky), so veterans will feel more towards Primordus than the other Elder Dragons (arguably same for Jormag via Svanir).

kamedin.4698:

I don’t feel like the world is under attack by dragons..

I think that’s part of the intent, actually.

The Elder Dragons were constantly stated to be this ‘distant, looming threat’ while things like the centaurs, Flame Legion, Inquest, etc. are the ‘upclose threats’. But as we go on, the minions and dragons should – and hopefully will – become more personalized.

While the dragons do plague the whole world, individual races only see the decimation being wrought on their homelands. The Norn are tentative to help elsewhere when Jormag is coming for them. The Charr see the Brand of Krakle everyday across their lands.
The Sylvari, well their plight is self-explanatory. The Asurans might be the first to lend a willing hand because they were evicted from their home by Primordus, but their personalities are distrusting and stand-offish
And does any race trust the Humans anymore?
It seems like Mordremoth is causing more world-scale havoc then Z did, so I assume this will keep building. Or maybe its like dominoes, each one leading to the next until all of Tyria is included in the fight.

kamedin.4698:

1.What do the dragons over all threat? Tyria the world? or Tyria the continent?

Well they don’t threaten Tyria, in fact they seem to play an important role in bringing stability to Tyria. However they do have the horrible habit of destroying all advanced civilisations whenever they rise. Probably as a side effect of their original intent, to consume magic which requires minions to collect some of the magic that is trapped in magical artefacts (in the case of Zhaitan at least).

kamedin.4698:

If its just the continent, could we try and move to elona or cantha somehow (similar to above) until they are done and go back to hibernation?

They seek out magic, unfortunately unless you can rid Elona or Cantha of magic they’ll arrive eventually.
My theory for their placement is simply that they ate all the magic and in doing so magic got scarcer and scarcer so they all started to converge on the last area that had magic.

kamedin.4698:

2. Do the dragons affect the area known as The Mists?

As far as we can tell not directly, or at least we probably won’t be seeing and ED in the mists. But Zhaitan can pull spirits of the dead from out of the mists, and the Sons of Svanir were able to enter the mists via one of the Norn shamans.

kamedin.4698:

3.Glint had eggs. We know atleast 1 hatched (although not sure if it survived) and another egg is around (Living Story) So can the Elder Dragons lay eggs like their champions? If so, could they hatch and do the same thing the current elder Dragons are doing? Or are the current champions actually their children now?

We don’t know much about Elder Dragon biology. We do know that the minions of Zhaitan could not reproduce (being head has that effect), Primordius’ minions could replicate but that wasn’t strictly reproduction either.
A theory is that the eggs were from pre-corruption or from soon after corruption which would possibly mean the eggs were already… inside her (which seems like the wrong terminology) and were corrupted in part. We don’t know if we could still produce more eggs after her corruption (if she was even corrupted).

kamedin.4698:

So If we did kill all the dragons, what would happen to the world known as Tyria? Would a new threat appear? Would magic just go out of control?*

We don’t know either. There seems to be hints that the world filled with magic isn’t a particularly nice one. We know from stories of the Jotun and Doric that too much magic tends to lead to war and strife, but it could also cause the world itself to undergo undesirably changes.

I don’t think the Zephrites were referring to their physical power when they described the elder dragons as forces of nature, so much as their lack of morality and “humanity”.