Guild Wars 2

Obviously he was a god, but it looks like he’s been weakened somehow…. de-deified? That or the pc is just that strong to be able to physically fight a god, which sounds kinda crazy.

He was weakened. Most likely he was defeated and someone else replaced him as god of war and fire (like Grenth defeated and replaced Dhuum).
But Balthazar absorbed the magic of a bloodstone and most of the enrgy of Primordus and Jormag. So now he is probably the strongest being in Tyria.
No chance for the PC and his friends to defeat him in a normal battle at this time.
But we have to wait for PoF to see where the story is going.

Well, what determines who is and is not a god?

People in Tyria still worship him. In fact it sounds like his followers have gotten more enthusiastic and he may have gained some new ones since coming back. Doesn’t that make him a god?

But if so, can we follow that train of thought through to the extreme and say all the statues and crystals and rocks and trees and whatever else the grawl worship are also gods? If not then why not? Because the grawl are not human and somehow not entitled to ascribe deityship (a word I just made up) to things? Because only a few of them are alive or have any magical power of their own? (But then are those ones gods?)

Alternatively if it’s a matter of how powerful you are then what’s the cut-off point? Are the elder dragons gods? Does it have to be a specific kind of power, or will anything do?

As a 3rd alternative (and strange as it’s going to sound the one I think is most likely) it could be a role you’re assigned, a bit like being in government. You (in theory) need to fulfill some basic qualifications in order to be considered but the deciding factor is someone declaring that you are a god. But who decides? The humans who worship them? The other gods? Some unknown higher authority?

If it’s the first one then I think yes, he absolutely is still a god. If it’s the second then we don’t know; he’s certainly weaker than he was because he’s said as much himself, but we’d need to know exactly how weak he is and how strong a god must be to determine whether he’s been ‘demoted’.

If it’s the 3rd then we don’t know. From things he’s said it sounds like he’s not on good terms with the other gods right now, but when Abaddon and Dhuum were ‘demoted’ it was pretty dramatic – Abaddon and all of his most dedicated followers (the Margonites) were blasted from the face of Tyria in an attack that drastically changed a huge area of the world – creating the Desolation and the Crystal Desert. On top of that almost all knowledge of him was erased from history so only a few people even knew he had ever existed. I think Grenth taking over from Dhuum happened almost entirely in The Mists so there was less impact on Tyria but it was still pretty dramatic and had far-reaching consequences.

So far we’ve not seen any of that with Balthazar. But it might be that part of the reason he’s in such a rush to gain all this extra power is because it’s not yet reached that point. This could be the god equivalent of him skipping bail and trying to hustle enough money to skip the country before the other gods can catch up.

By all indication, what separates one of the Six Gods from other beings either powerful or claiming godhood is the source of their power. For the Six Gods, it seems to be a highly volatile, alien, magic source dubbed “Divine Magic” which cannot exist without a host – and its host is a “god”.

This may or may not apply to other gods, however, such as Zintl, Koda, and Ameyalli (and if she isn’t Melandru, Mellaggan as well).

Side note: Dhuum was usurped by Grenth in Orr. We can use the point of his fall as a commune hero challenge. However, unlike Dhuum, it seems Abaddon’s body was destroyed when he was brought down. Also, the creation of the Desolation/Crystal Desert wasn’t from when he was usurped, but defeated by the other five gods – his usurption had minimal devastation in Nightfall, though if there was no replacement then the entire Realm of Torment and Tyria would have been annihilated (supposedly).

Konig Des Todes.2086:

By all indication, what separates one of the Six Gods from other beings either powerful or claiming godhood is the source of their power. For the Six Gods, it seems to be a highly volatile, alien, magic source dubbed “Divine Magic” which cannot exist without a host – and its host is a “god”.

This may or may not apply to other gods, however, such as Zintl, Koda, and Ameyalli (and if she isn’t Melandru, Mellaggan as well).

Side note: Dhuum was usurped by Grenth in Orr. We can use the point of his fall as a commune hero challenge. However, unlike Dhuum, it seems Abaddon’s body was destroyed when he was brought down. Also, the creation of the Desolation/Crystal Desert wasn’t from when he was usurped, but defeated by the other five gods – his usurption had minimal devastation in Nightfall, though if there was no replacement then the entire Realm of Torment and Tyria would have been annihilated (supposedly).

So has Balthazar been usurped of his “Divine Magic” by someone, which is why he’s trying to regain power by taking other magics such as the bloodstone and dragon magic?

That’s what is being implied given our limited information.

They could pull another contradictory reveal again and tell us that Balthazar is still divine despite the lack of, as the civilian in the first E6 episode says, eyeball melting.

I’m not so sure that would be contradictory. He never uses terms like usurped or stolen, words that would mean his godhood had been taken from him- he uses ‘dimmed’ and ‘abated’. That sounds to me less like his mantle has passed to someone else the way Abaddon’s went to Kormir, and more like the mantle itself has been directly damaged and/or drained. If that is the case, he could still be divine insofar as no one has replaced him as the god of war… it just means that ‘god of war’ doesn’t count for as much these days.

So why don’t we go blind looking at him?

If the blindness is a function of the sheer amount of divine power packed into a single being, it stands to reason that reducing the power also reduces the risk.

I think the gods are powerfull enough to prevent someone to become blind if it has something todo with their nature.
But more likely it’s a legend, told by the few humans who really seen one of the goods by themself to emphasize how beatiful and powerful the gods are.

It’s not a legend, since we talk to a ghost of someone who did go blind. The entire story of Malchor is that the gods cannot show their true form to mortals without them going blind if they look too long (which we undoubtably did). So to show humans what they truly looked like, the gods hired a single sculptor, Malchor, to sculpt their true form. That’s the Orrian statues we see throughout most of GW2 now. Malchor took steps to prevent going blind before sculpting all six gods, but did go blind when sculpting Dwayna since he saw her as absolute beauty and could not look away to rest his eyes.

Abaddon didn’t blind us and he was a God…

Mickey Frogeater.1470:

Abaddon didn’t blind us and he was a God…

Indeed, that does seem to call the eye melty-ness of the gods into question.

He was also imprisoned, however, and we were blessed by the other five gods just prior to our rather short fight with him (literally a 5 minute mission, maybe 15 if you don’t know what to do but manage to not wipe).

This also brings into question Rytlock, who went to the Mists, came back (supposedly) blind and is extremely cagey about the whole event. The trailer also reveals he may at least finally tell us what the hell happened to him there. Wanna place bets he saw some Gods?

JayMack.8295:

This also brings into question Rytlock, who went to the Mists, came back (supposedly) blind and is extremely cagey about the whole event. The trailer also reveals he may at least finally tell us what the hell happened to him there. Wanna place bets he saw some Gods?

In one of his videos, WP showed that Rytlock removes his blindfold and had some dialog explaining that He only wore it to help himself concentrate while dealing with the voices in his head. Now that he has better control, he didnt need it anymore.

Euthymias.7984:

JayMack.8295:

This also brings into question Rytlock, who went to the Mists, came back (supposedly) blind and is extremely cagey about the whole event. The trailer also reveals he may at least finally tell us what the hell happened to him there. Wanna place bets he saw some Gods?

In one of his videos, WP showed that Rytlock removes his blindfold and had some dialog explaining that He only wore it to help himself concentrate while dealing with the voices in his head. Now that he has better control, he didnt need it anymore.

Well that’s a little disappointing if I’m honest. Ah well – t’is what it is.

Rather expected, to be honest, since that’s the same explanation for ritualists and for player revenants in the biography options.

What’s disappointing is that they made such a build up for it. But there’s still the trip itself into the Mists and what he found there to learn. My bet is still on a snuffed out Fissure of Woe based on the trailer.

The gods in GW already weren’t that powerfull to begin with, we’ve fought Abandon back in Nightfall.

Shinzan.2908:

The gods in GW already weren’t that powerfull to begin with, we’ve fought Abandon back in Nightfall.

Abaddon isn’t a good measuring stick, he was both chained and (by some evidence) physically broken. Though I don’t fully subscribe to it (yes I know it was in the data files, Konig, but it still doesn’t make sense) but according to some Abaddon was still reforming his body, hence the head and hands deal.

Fair enough, I still think evidence suggests the gods of GW are more along the lines of the Greek gods or Dungeons and Dragons, rather than actually being omnipotent, omniscient and all that. So they are powerful and have access to special powers, but can and have been challenged, tricked or even beaten.

Shinzan.2908:

Fair enough, I still think evidence suggests the gods of GW are more along the lines of the Greek gods or Dungeons and Dragons, rather than actually being omnipotent, omniscient and all that. So they are powerful and have access to special powers, but can and have been challenged, tricked or even beaten.

I’m….not sure that was ever really in question.

Polytheistic gods are never omnipotent or omniscient. At best, they’re “omnipotent in their own domain” – which is how humans in Tyria view their gods, meaning that there is no being greater at war and fire than Balthazar, no being greater at healing and air manipulation than Dwayna, no being greater at death and ice than Grenth, etc. But that bit is questionable.

But that doesn’t make them “not gods” nor “not very powerful”. We never fought a god that was at full power, never witnessed the strength such could have. The closest we got are three fallen and/or weakened gods.

Zuko.7132:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

By all indication, what separates one of the Six Gods from other beings either powerful or claiming godhood is the source of their power. For the Six Gods, it seems to be a highly volatile, alien, magic source dubbed “Divine Magic” which cannot exist without a host – and its host is a “god”.

This may or may not apply to other gods, however, such as Zintl, Koda, and Ameyalli (and if she isn’t Melandru, Mellaggan as well).

Side note: Dhuum was usurped by Grenth in Orr. We can use the point of his fall as a commune hero challenge. However, unlike Dhuum, it seems Abaddon’s body was destroyed when he was brought down. Also, the creation of the Desolation/Crystal Desert wasn’t from when he was usurped, but defeated by the other five gods – his usurption had minimal devastation in Nightfall, though if there was no replacement then the entire Realm of Torment and Tyria would have been annihilated (supposedly).

So has Balthazar been usurped of his “Divine Magic” by someone, which is why he’s trying to regain power by taking other magics such as the bloodstone and dragon magic?

Well this makes me wonder.
The six gods and the spirits of the wild all left tyria around the time elder dragons started to wake up.
Are elder dragons capable of absorbing divine magic.
Balthazar talked about being betrayed.
Did the gods or a god lie to him about his divinity?
Why is he so hellbent on killing elder dragons?
If he could absorbe magic why doesnt he just absorb the volatile dragon energy from the dead dragons or the worlds natural ley energy, which apparently is in abundance right now?

Side question: If elder dragons can absorb divine magic or were created using divine magic, does this mean Aurene can become an elder dragon and/or god?
Like was Glint protecting a replacement for the elder dragons because she knew when they died you would need a medium for the power they unleash on tyria?
Sorry for ressurecting a dead horse, just some questions I had from finishing the story

Solori.6025:

Well this makes me wonder.
The six gods and the spirits of the wild all left tyria around the time elder dragons started to wake up.
Are elder dragons capable of absorbing divine magic.
Balthazar talked about being betrayed.
Did the gods or a god lie to him about his divinity?
Why is he so hellbent on killing elder dragons?
If he could absorbe magic why doesnt he just absorb the volatile dragon energy from the dead dragons or the worlds natural ley energy, which apparently is in abundance right now?

• No, they didn’t. The Spirits never left, they’re still around Tyria. The Six Gods left over a thousand years before the Elder Dragons started waking up.
• By all indication, no. Even ignoring the Divine Torch hording mordrem away in S2, and Forgotten magic being completely immune to dragon corruption (and even able to break the hive mind of it), Primordus and his horde couldn’t even munch on Balthazar while the weakened “god” set up the machine.
• He actually doesn’t talk about being betrayed at all. He mentions being abated (aka weakened), and that he has learned there’s no honor in war – both can be taken in multiple interpretations.
• There’s no indication that Balthazar was at any point “not a god”. After all, he presumably made people who looked at him go blind too, just like the others.
• He’s less hellbent on killing dragons so much as wanting to take their magic to regain his strength – he makes this fairly clear in Heart of the Volcano, his goal is revenge against those who weakened him and he’s only going after the dragons for the same reason he went after the bloodstone: magical power.
• My guess? It’s too widespread. It would take time, and Balthazar seems highly impatient at the moment.

Solori.6025:

Side question: If elder dragons can absorb divine magic or were created using divine magic, does this mean Aurene can become an elder dragon and/or god?
Like was Glint protecting a replacement for the elder dragons because she knew when they died you would need a medium for the power they unleash on tyria?
Sorry for ressurecting a dead horse, just some questions I had from finishing the story

If they were made by divine magic, then yes Aurene could become a dragon god. However, all indication is that divine magic is opposite to the Elder Dragons – they cannot consume or corrupt it, and it can reverse some of their corruption’s effects. This is based off of the correlation between the Forgotten and the gods, assuming their magics are akin to each other, and based off of the Divine Fire (also the Foefire which is said to be from Orr during the gods’ reign indicating possible divine ties).

Aurene does definitely seem capable of becoming a new Elder Dragon, as we were told Glint was close to becoming and Tequatl seemed to have been approaching before being killed (assuming that Rox carrying its tail around means its been canonically killed at least).